I've seen lots of docs, and in my experience they were NOT susceptible to marketing like this but took time to research the meds and see what was really the right one for me. If a doc is practicing like this article, I suggest getting another doc. Also, it is up to the patient to thoroughly research every med he or she puts in his or her body. You'll want to know all the side effects. No doc knows everything. And don't just look at the company's website, either. All my docs told me clearly when they were prescribing something off-label, which they should. My brother is a doc, and by the time they pay malpractice, overhead, and staff, they really don't take home a load of dough like most people think. He doesn't live in a mansion or drive a fancy car. When you have this huge bill, the insurance has an adjustment, there is a payment, then the doc only gets a small percentage of it-check the claim form some time. I'm often surprised the doc doesn't bill me more- but I think it's against the law.

Yeah, but the problem is you're not paying him. You're paying the insurance company and other middlemen. That's why health care is so frigging expensive nowadays. Between 100 dollar a month medicine and outrageous premiums, docs fees are pretty marginal.

Unfortunately true. Some of my meds would be more like 500-1000 dollars a month w/o ins. (for just one med!) I hate to think what the grand total would be.

RackNStack, in addition to what you said, the insurance companies are the doctors' customers. Te doctor is responsible to the insurance company and is under signed contract to the insurance company. The patient does not see this contract. That contract is written to save the insurance company money. If the doctor does anything outside of the contract the insurance company doesn't pay.

The doctor receives the patient from the insurance company much like a pet is brought to a veterinarian by the owner. When the doctor's office wants to know what insurance you have, they are actually asking "who is your owner who will pay for you?"

I just now posted a comment on another article, that a few years ago, I was the victim of overly-eager marketing by a pharmeceutical company. The subject of this article is exactly what I was talking about. Neither I nor the doc could figure out why I was getting worse. I finally realized what was happening,...the medicine itself was exacerbating my condition.

Today, I take no meds at all. Many people do need some sort of medicine, but for me, the solution proved to be the omega-3 fatty acids found in fish oil.

That is one of the reasons more and more health care providers are choosing not to contract with the insurance companies.

For patients who see a non contracted provider, check your policy for out of network benefits. It's better than paying 100% of the cost out of your own pocket. Also, check with the office and ask if they will accept what insurance pays as payment in full. When a provider bills at non contracted rates, even if only 50% is allowed, sometimes the provider gets the same dollar amount as a contracted rate.

I agree with you 100 percent!!! No one could have said this better as I have been there and done that. I stopped taking a medicine that was not approved for a syndrome I have and instead is used for something else.

Seen too much. . . I see where you are coming from as far as doctors not taking home the big dough, however, there are some doctors that do such as heart surgeons, brain surgeons and Obstetricians not to mention other high tech specialists and even these doctors do the same as the smaller docs do and give out meds that are not for what the patient has.

One more think, I truly feel that the National Health Care Plan is going to be a great thing for out country and I hope doctors like your brother will not try to screw this up for the rest of us who need that national health insurance because we are all our of work in the family right now. Thanks to the past politicians in the past. Rem, I am not trying to start a war but we need this change badly.Maybe some of you don't be my family does.

I heartily agree, being a clinican for many years, marketing directly to clinicans and not the public, absolutely. What a nightmare, current marketing practices. THe public can still do their own research, and they should be heartily empowered to do this. Waching or listening drug commercials is nauseating and add this to attempting to manage out of control sxs in the dying population from a comfort perspective is like trying to untease a rats nest, and it serves few well, except those whose pockets it lines, perhaps.

I agree, DTC advertising needs to end. As does "promotion" of off-label use. However, some companies actually run small trials and present the data to doctors, not enough to convince the FDA but a practicing doctor knows biochem, pharmacology, etc., and can make educated decisions. Also, in the realm of mental-health it's a guessing game...many psychiatrists try numerous drugs before finding one that's right for their patient. After seeing many patients, they may choose to prescribe something off-label based on their experiences. It's easy to blame pharma since they take so much flack anyways, but perhaps it's possible some of these scripts are legit because they work for the patient in their particular case?

IM GOING TO WRITE IN CAPS TO DISTINGUISH MY WRITING, IM TYPING FAST BUT SINCE IM A LEVEL HEADED SHRINK (MD) I WANT TO CORRECT MISTATEMENTS IN THIS ARTICLE AND IN PEOPLE RESPONSES

DONT SPAM ME BUT EMAIL IF YOU HAVE AN QUESTION
SORRY TO MONOPOLIZE THIS...HERE WE GO

. Randall Stafford of Stanford University School of Medicine, who worked on the study, blames marketing by drug companies and a tendency for doctors to think newer is better.

"Physicians want to prescribe and use the latest therapies — and even when those latest therapies don't necessarily offer a big advantage, there's still a tendency to think that the newest drugs must be better," he said in a statement.

Given the results of this study and this comment, I'd say that drug companies should be prohibited from marketing directly to consumers and limited in their marketing to doctors.

YES THEY SHOULD AND SO SHOULD THER NOT BE LOBBYISTS IN WASHINGTON, ITS THE SAME PROBLEM. THESE GOOD LOOKING MEN AND WOMEN CALLED DRUG REPS SIT IN YOUR OFFICE AND TRY TO TELL YOU WHY SEROQUEL XT IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN REGUALR SEROQYUEL

I'd also say that since doctors are so susceptible to marketing techniques when they are supposed to be knowledgeable about the drugs they prescribe to totally clueless patients, they are grossly overpaid and the entire medical profession, including the cost of a medical degree, needs an overhaul.

YOU NEED TO BAN THE DRUG REPS FROM TEACHING HOSPTIALS BC THEY GET TO THE RESODENTS AND NEW DOCS EARLY

This is unbelievable. Doctors "think because something is newer it is better"? That's a valid excuse for pumping untried drugs into patients....drugs that weren't even meant for the illness the doctor is prescribing them for?

NO ITS ALSO WHATS IN THEIR MIND MOST RECETLY< IT TAKES BRAINS TO LOGICALLY THINK AND PICK THE BEST TREATMENT FOR THE $$ and A LOT OPF DOCS JUST WRITE FOR WHAT THEY FAVOR, DOCS SHOULD BE WILLING TO PRESCRIBE WHAT IS THE BEST AND PART OF THAT IS COST
And the insurance companies and doctors are whining and crying about malpractice lawsuits? For the prices I pay, I expect the man with the degree hanging on his wall to KNOW what he's telling me to put in my body, not GUESS about it, and if he HAS to guess, I expect him to respect my intelligence enough to INFORM me he's guessing.

THE AMA IS TOTALLY OUT TO GET LAWYERS AND WhINE ABOUT LAWSUITS. THE TRITH IS LAWSUITS ARE ABOUT 1-4% OF ALL COSTS HEALTHCARE WISE, ITS NOT EVEN WORTH WRITING ABOUT EVEN DEFENSIVE MEDICINE IS WHAT WILL GIVE YOU THE 4% NUMBER, IT NOT WORTH WRITING ABOUT EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY BE IRRITATTED W THAT SUBJECT

seen too much

I've seen lots of docs, and in my experience they were NOT susceptible to marketing like this but took time to research the meds and see what was really the right one for me. If a doc is practicing like this article, I suggest getting another doc. Also, it is up to the patient to thoroughly research every med he or she puts in his or her body. You'll want to know all the side effects. No doc knows everything. And don't just look at the company's website, either. All my docs told me clearly when they were prescribing something off-label, which they should. My brother is a doc, and by the time they pay malpractice, overhead, and staff, they really don't take home a load of dough like most people think. He doesn't live in a mansion or drive a fancy car. When you have this huge bill, the insurance has an adjustment, there is a payment, then the doc only gets a small percentage of it-check the claim form some time. I'm often surprised the doc doesn't bill me more- but I think it's against the law

PRIMARY CARE DOCS DONT MAKE MUCH FOR WHAT THEY FO THRU, AMERTIVAN STUDENTS ARE SPECIALIZING FOR MONEY REASONS, MOST PMDS WILL BE FOREIGN MED GRADS SOON

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#1.1 - Fri Jan 7, 2011 7:06 PM MST

RackNStack

Yeah, but the problem is you're not paying him. You're paying the insurance company and other middlemen. That's why health care is so frigging expensive nowadays. Between 100 dollar a month medicine and outrageous premiums, docs fees are pretty marginal.

MOST OF THE COST THAT CAN BE ELIMIONATED IS CURED BY INTERTWINED ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORS, ITS ESTIMATED 30% CAN BE SAVE W THIS. THAT IS WHY HC IS SO EXPENSIVE.

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#1.2 - Fri Jan 7, 2011 7:21 PM MST

seen too much

Unfortunately true. Some of my meds would be more like 500-1000 dollars a month w/o ins. (for just one med!) I hate to think what the grand total would be.

TRY GENERICS, WALMART LOVE OR HATE EM CAME UP W 4$ SCRIPTS AND EVERYONE FOLLOWED SUIT. THEY DID MORE FOR HC THAN REPUBLICANS EVER WILL

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#1.3 - Fri Jan 7, 2011 7:29 PM MST

Garrick S

RackNStack, in addition to what you said, the insurance companies are the doctors' customers. Te doctor is responsible to the insurance company and is under signed contract to the insurance company. The patient does not see this contract. That contract is written to save the insurance company money. If the doctor does anything outside of the contract the insurance company doesn't pay.

The doctor receives the patient from the insurance company much like a pet is brought to a veterinarian by the owner. When the doctor's office wants to know what insurance you have, they are actually asking "who is your owner who will pay for you?"

WHAT WILL SOLVE THIS CRAPPY PRESCRIBING IS INSURANCE COMPANIES SAYING WE WILL NTO PAY FOR THAT MED UNTIL THE DOC JUSTIFIES THIS OFF LABEL USE. HONESTLY YOU WILL BE THE BEST AT TREATING DEPRESSION AND SCHIZOPHRENIA IF U JUST FOLLOW A RECIPE/TREATMENT GUIDELINES WHICH IS BASICALLY A FLOW CHART. I DO THAT LIKE A ROBOT AND MY PATIENTS DO REALLY WELL IN TERMS OF REMISSION FROM DEPREESSSION AND SCHIZO

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#1.4 - Fri Jan 7, 2011 7:59 PM MST

Steve-564412

I just now posted a comment on another article, that a few years ago, I was the victim of overly-eager marketing by a pharmeceutical company. The subject of this article is exactly what I was talking about. Neither I nor the doc could figure out why I was getting worse. I finally realized what was happening,...the medicine itself was exacerbating my condition.

THAT COULD HAPPEN W ANY MED, ITS NOT NECESSARILY BC IT WAS NEW MED PUSHED BY THE DRUG REP

Today, I take no meds at all. Many people do need some sort of medicine, but for me, the solution proved to be the omega-3 fatty acids found in fish oil.

IN GENRAL HERBS AND CVITS CAN HELP BUT THE MEDS THAT ARE NOT OVER THE COUNTER ARE MUCH MROE EFFECTIVE FOR PSYCH CONDITIONS, I CAN DO SUCH A BETTER JOB THAN FISH OIL COULD FOR ANY PSYCH CONDITION. THATS NOT TO SAY YOU SHOUDLNT TAKE FISH OIL. i TAKE FISH OIL, FOLATE, VIT E TO PREVENT ARTHEROSCLEROSIS AS THEY ARE PROVEN TO BE EFFECTIVE. READ THE VITAMIN SCAM AND YOULLL UNDERSGTAND YOU NEED ALMOST NO EVIDENCE TO MAKE A CLAIM AND PRODUCE AN ALTERNATIVE MED, MOST PEOPLE ARE WASTING THEIR MONEY JUYSR LIKE WERE WASTING OUR MONEY IF WE ARE PRESCRIBING ABILIFY AT 550$/MONTH FOR DEPRESSION WHEN WE COULD HAVE SWITCHED YOU TO 4-10$ CELEXA OR ZOLOFT

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#1.5 - Fri Jan 7, 2011 8:36 PM MST

Debi-1314897

That is one of the reasons more and more health care providers are choosing not to contract with the insurance companies.

For patients who see a non contracted provider, check your policy for out of network benefits. It's better than paying 100% of the cost out of your own pocket. Also, check with the office and ask if they will accept what insurance pays as payment in full. When a provider bills at non contracted rates, even if only 50% is allowed, sometimes the provider gets the same dollar amount as a contracted rate.

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#1.6 - Fri Jan 7, 2011 8:43 PM MST

Melissa-1238501

I agree with you 100 percent!!! No one could have said this better as I have been there and done that. I stopped taking a medicine that was not approved for a syndrome I have and instead is used for something else.

FOLLOWING EBM EVUIDENCE BASE MEDICINE WILL MAKE ANY DOC OUTSTANDING BC OF THIS BS AMOUNBT OF OFF LABEL PRESCRIBING. A LOT OF OFF LABEL PRESCRIBING IS LIKE SAYING YOU KNOW MROE THAN THE MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE AND STUDIES THAT ARE NEEDED TO GET FDA APPROVAL. FOR EXAMPLE ST JOHNS WORT FOR DEPRESSION IS DECENT BUT IS 3X A DAY MED AND ONLY WORKS FOR MILD, NOT MODERATE OR SEVERE DEPRESSION

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#1.7 - Fri Jan 7, 2011 9:38 PM MST

Melissa-1238501

Seen too much. . . I see where you are coming from as far as doctors not taking home the big dough, however, there are some doctors that do such as heart surgeons, brain surgeons and Obstetricians not to mention other high tech specialists and even these doctors do the same as the smaller docs do and give out meds that are not for what the patient has.

One more think, I truly feel that the National Health Care Plan is going to be a great thing for out country and I hope doctors like your brother will not try to screw this up for the rest of us who need that national health insurance because we are all our of work in the family right now. Thanks to the past politicians in the past. Rem, I am not trying to start a war but we need this change badly.Maybe some of you don't be my family does.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT AND THIS COMING FROM A SHRINK WHO MAKE 240,000$ a YEAR. NATIONAL HC ITS NOT EVEN SINGLE PAYER LIEK ENGLAND AND IT WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER. REPUBS ARE IDIOTS AND ARE GOING TO FUTILLY AND SYMBOLICALLY VOTE TO TAKE IT AWAY, BUT IF YOURE A SOUTHERNER AND LOST YOUR JOB AND ARE NOW ON MEDICAID IN YOUR STATE, THANK A DEMOCRAT. IF YOUR A SENIOR AND DIDNT SAVE FOR RETIREMENT, THANKS A DEM FOR GIVING YOU SOCIAL SECURITY. IF YOU WANT A DOG EAT DOG WORLD AND NO POLICING OF THAT WORLD, THEN VOTE REPUB. I HAVE A LOT OF MONEY BUT WOULD GLADLY TAKE 1/2 MY SALARY TO KNOW THAT EVEN THOUGH THE GOVERNMENT IS PAYING 38$ A VISIT LIKE W MEDICARE, AT LEAST THE PEOPLE I SEE HAVE HC AND WE WONT HAVE 3000 DEATHS PER DAY BC OF LACK OF HC- TELL THAT TO GEORGE BUSH WHOSE BEHAVIOR HAS RESULTED IN 30-100,000 IRAQI DEATHS AND >4000 US SOLDIER DEATHS IN IRAQ, ETC.... I NOTICE HE DIDNT GO ANYWHERE NEAR THE SUDAN OR DHARFOUR - I WONDER WHY- THEY HAVE DICTATORS AND NOT DEMOCRACIES...SORRY I DIGRESS

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#1.8 - Fri Jan 7, 2011 9:56 PM MST

spilmaz: Sorry, but I don't understand your response to my post :)

Spilmaz, I for one sorta question your claim to be a physician. I've worked for docs in the past in basically all specialties, all really have poor penmenship, but grammar seems to be a stickler with them. Now I may have missed this within you reply, but, it would seem that somebody in your supposed field would be screaming and yelling that GPs and PCPs shouldn't be pushing these meds. Which is for the most part the one referal I'm an advocate of. They should be refered to a specialist. Additionally, what wasn't added, is that when the drug reps come out to sell, the docs are offered a kickback. X dollars for each scrip.

I was writing as fast as I could, I dont have enough time to sit and go back and correct every error.  GPs and PCPs prescribe 66% of all anti depressants and that prescribing rate of a medicine that reduces suicides coudl not be obtained by having every depressed person referred to a psychiatrist.  So I am in favor of anti depressaqnts but if PCPs are prescribing seroquel for sleep, they should be ashamed that they dont know enough to avoid doing that.  They should also refer all shizophrenics and pts who really have bipolar do and depressed pts that dont get better, and some ADHDers but thats about it.

In general, though you are correct, most PCPs should never have a reason to prescribe an antipsychotic EVER.  I really cant think of one reason.  ABILIFY is used to augment depression- its a bucnhy of BS IMO, theyre getting PCPs now to prescriobe ABILIFY for people who fail Celexa when they could just switch to Zolfot, also generic - but you know the drug reps fool even shrinks into using ABILIFY when there are regular anti depressants not anti psychotics that can relieve depression.  Unfortunately, the FDA has to approve it if the studies show it works- it doesnt say on the package insert, for depression if your doctors an idiot, but it should!!

Some docs get vacation and other stuff that should be illegal but most get a cutish 30-40 something drug rep mostly female obsiously and a few pens...how sad that they are so easily brainwashed....i used to vomit everytime they came around
BTW- your wrong I am a psychiatrist butwhats more important is if what i wrote makes sense- and i think it does- my grammar was better with this rant....

Just think of when Health Care Reform kicks in. Drugs galore will be supplied. The doctor won't have 5 minutes to spend with a patient. Just write a prescription for Meds.

Yes, the Drug Companies are going to be on overload making money. Too bad, we don't have drug companies and doctors who care about their patients, not the amount of people they will be seeing each day. Health Care will lessen the quality of health visits and care..

This is the "easy" way out. Next patient, please.

spilmaz,

I clearly acknowledged that some people need the meds, in fact I have a friend whose doctor found the magic bullet for him. In those cases, the patients would be foolish to try and do without the medicine.

But in MY case, the omega-3 fatty acids by way of the fish oil was the answer to my problem. There is no doubt about it. I did not try it because of some scam artist trying to sell it. I had noticed in the past that any time in the past that I had taken a little fish oil for cv health, I also experienced a slight but noticeable improvement in mood. I did some research and found out why.

When all medicines ceased to work for me (and I tried a bunch), I decided that taking heavier doses of the fish oil, my be worth a try. If it didn't work, no harm was done. It worked, very rapidly. And it worked 10 times better than the best medicine of the past (I was on meds for over 20 years before I tried this). This is no exaggeration. It is still working beautifully, for almost a full year now. It will never quit working, because it is a nutritional supplement. I should mention that I boosted each fish oil capsule by taking a tiny B-complex supplement (25% ADR by quartering a 100% capsule). Lately, I've been a little lax about the vitamin, but the fish oil still works well.

I do NOT recommend that everyone on psychiatric meds go to fish oil instead. I tried it on desperation, because no meds were working. For me, the fish oil and small B supplement was a God send. The facts of research on fish oil are available online.

Bet if they checked further they would find the doctors abusing this are the ones who work for the very large health care organizations who are payin out a bonus if you prescribe a certain amount of favored drugs in a certain period. I spoke with two other people who go to the same doctor I was going to who was in a large group from a major local hospital about teying to push me into anti cholesterol medicine. I went and had it checked and did not need the medicine. Both of the other patients had the same experience with that doctor who is no longer the doctor for all of us.

as for marketing directly to consumers, the drug companies make billions thanks to deregulation!

Dustin77, how exactly did the deregulation cause that? I'm not familiar with that issue.

Most of this comes from pressure on physicians to prescribe off-label uses of the drugs. While this is illegal, you have to look at the type of person who is being used as a drug rep to see what is going on. For example, for several years the entire cheerleader squad from the University of Kentucky became drug reps. Allison Williams (the TV reporter who made the porn video) is a drug rep.

The drug companies closely monitor (illegally) the physicians' prescription of their drugs. If the physician does not prescribe in line with the "hints" provided him, he is cut off from the goodies --- seminars, lunches, ghost authorship of papers, etc.

This is a serious problem and is a major component of the "waste and fraud" that can be eliminated by HCR. To continue to perpetuate this sort of fraud on the public is why the drug companies are pouring millions into the Tea Party and the GOP to drum up a repeal of HCR.

For my money, any physician who uses any drug for any off-label use outside of the research setting and without prior FDA approval should immediately have his license suspended and if hard was done, permanently revoked.

They don't seem to be having an impact on the Rightwingnut, GOBP, Party of No...and/or Baggers.

Chris,

Based on what you have said, the FDA needs to lower the boom on the drug companies as well. However, I have heard rumors that the drug companies, to some degree, have major political influence over the FDA's actions. I don't know how true that might or might not be.

@Steve,

Over the last 25 years or so, scientists (PhD's, MPH's, etc) with research skills have been pushed out of the FDA and replaced with MD's (generally called MDO's for MD Only.) MD's have no training or skillset in designing, conducting or evaluating clinical research. This leaves them totally at the mercy of the drug companies who design, conduct, and evaluate their own products with only the FDA's "blessing." This is very much a case of the fox guarding the henhouse.

While federal law required all FDA officers to disclose any financial ties or gifts from drug companies, medical equipment manufacturers, or the for-profit medical industry (including insurance companies) in general if the total for a year is over $25. Less than 20% have complied. Of that 20% around 80% had received remuneration in excess of that was allowed and returned the money or monetary value. The rest simply refused to disclose their information.

The drug companies have many ways of getting money to physicians including, high-end lunches, seminars in resorts, freebies such as briefcases and car GPS systems. In addition they pay physicians to conduct seminars (which are often canceled at the last minute), paying for the physician being a named author on studies in which the physician did not participate, giving physicians seats on various "advisory" boards and committees, etc.

Physicians routinely deny that these things take place, or that they are involved. Mostly this is simply not true. And this income is almost never reported to the IRS or is actually taken as a deduction instead of as an asset. For example, a physician is invited to a drug company seminar in Hawaii. His hotel room, green fees, meals, and transportation are paid for by the drug company. Sometimes there are actual lectures, but attendance is feeble if at all. Instead of reporting the freebies as income, the physician then reports this as a deductible business expense for his PC. He didn't spend a dime on his vacation and the taxpayers actually give him back 38% of the cost of the trip in cash. (And the same trip was deducted as a corporate business expense by the drug company as well.)

My suggestion would be to a) fire all FDA officers who do not have credentialed research skills. This includes ALL MDO's and MD/JD's. b) fire all FDA officers who have failed to disclose financial ties to the for-profit medical industry. c) fire all FDA officers who have disclosed but continued to receive remuneration from the for-profit medical industry. and d) put a firewall between FDA officers and the drug companies for all clinical trials.

He has a medical practice. He is practicing medicine. You are the guinea pig, bunny, rabbit and mouse. What part of "practice" don't you understand?

Yes, they do make that solemn pledge to serve health and healing, which does not bind to pledge or plaque to any agreement of pay or great wealth according to man's definition of "rich" and fulfillment but... when you arrive at nothing but your health and hope, then lose that too... try asking for help to regain your health, so you might have still a hope ... good luck in that case to you.

The world is full of practices. No president ever did the job before his first day on the job!

Now don't you feel better, knowing how honest they were before hand by displaying the word "practice" in plain sight?

seen too much

Unfortunately true. Some of my meds would be more like 500-1000 dollars a month w/o ins. (for just one med!) I hate to think what the grand total would be.

TRY GENERICS, WALMART LOVE OR HATE EM CAME UP W 4$ SCRIPTS AND EVERYONE FOLLOWED SUIT.

Thanks for addressing so many posts directly. However, I DO use generics whenever they exist. Some of my meds do not have a generic, and with one the generic itself is very costly. NONE of them are on the list of the $4 scripts-I checked. (I take several migraine meds, and they cost a fortune! They do help, however.) Why would you think the solution would be that simple and not realize how many meds cost a lot even in generic form?

I think you need to take into concideration the fact that if 1 in 5 adult suffer from mental illness making the field a grossly undermanned and just recently becoming a semi "acceptable" in popular opinion.I vbelieve that while it is trrue that there are many over-medicated patients it is not a major majoity of that communiy.I myself take several medications which include seroquel and othersmedications which have proved to be a nessisary evil to combat the Bi-Polo,ADHD and PTSD in thethat I suffer from.I truly believe that while these drugs are potentially harmful they also provide a tangible solution to some of the many individuals who suuffer from mental illness,I believe that is the main reason that doctors prescrbe them because they have shown positive result where there were none before.

Damn, I am sorry I didn't edit this comment before I posted it!!!!

Just for the record, I am a Family Physician who always tries to use older, generic meds FIRST because they are tried and proven..and cheaper...I have a healthy distrust of big PHARMA and their ads and promotions. I do not believe new is always better. I have already been concerned about the wide spread use of the atypical's for some time so I almost never use them.

They issue is not limited to just MD's. I have had many patients who see psychologists or other mental health workers and they are recommending that their clients/my patients come see me about getting on these drugs. I'm not afraid to tell them no!

Is there a lot of uncertainty in the practice of medicine? Sure there is! But a conscientious physician will always try to keep his/her patient's best in mind with every diagnosis and treatment made.

I too have been diadnosed finally properly as being bi-polar. However when in '98 as I see now I was in a manic episode to the point I became delusional & beyong after going 4 days without sleep. I was hositilized & given Haldol I am thankful that I do not have clear memories except for the very bad ones. I do not know why but I was put in the room. Not strapped though. now I do not a frame of time here but I got off of the bed & hit the ground due to the fact I had 0 feeling in right leg from just above the knee. So I beat on door get put in wheelchair to wait for a medical dr. to check me. When he began to push needles I locked eyes on him saying no no no no. The nurse goes it medicine time & he move very guick & said No she shall have no more medicine. Once I made it to the med floor I was freaking sourond with people that are desparely tying to save my very life. My organs were failing. my kidneys it was a toss up my urine was the color of coke. I had Rabdo that is short of the name. I was deadly allergic to Haldol. So they have given me Geodon but I rarely take it 'cause I am so frightened of those drugs. Period. I thank God always for me loosing feeling in that leg that took months to get back.'cause I mosty surely would have been dead!

I have Bipolar Disorder, too. In my case the mood stabilizers in combination with my drugs for heart disease caused atrial fibrillation (non-lethal problem). It caused my implanted defibrillator to shock me. So, my psychiatrist attempted to use a newer anti-psychotic called Synapt. I took two doses and approximately four hours after each dose, I went into ventricular tachycardia (essentially cardiac arrest). Fortunately I received the theraputic shocks again or I wouldn't be writing this comment. When shocked, I was already unconscious and was subsequently advised that I was in mortal danger. I have only had 2 cases of v-tach in 6 years. Both, four hours after taking the pill. Needless to say, I stopped all atypical anti-psychotics.

ok!

boddhitree, glad you found a cocktail that works for you. My advice from my experience, keep an eye on it. Some of the nastiest side effects of the atypicals are cumulative. And if you don't stop soon enough, the side effects can become permanent conditions. I was on Seroquel for bipolar disorder for several months. I've been off it for better than a year and am still dealing with tremors in my hands and legs. I gained 30 pounds. And I am not convinced that there was any real significant therapeutic benefit compared to the other meds I have been or am on. For some people they work well and can save lives. But I would urge everyone to be CAREFUL. Get additional opinions. See a specialist, don't just tell your family doc you are a little moody and suck these down if given to you. ASK questions.

"Not a very exact science, is it?" -- Diana, next to normal

boddhittree:

Good Comments. Glad you found a good combination of meds.

The article also stated that when anti-psychotic meds are dispensed, they need therapy, also. You are right, the "old medications"are cheaper, and some are not made anymore, many of them being ineffective. There are new studies on the brain, with scientists making new discoveries, thus making newer medications better for the patients problem.

It is an article that is trying to persuade Americans to love the Health Care Reform in code.

There is a soulution although temporary it's called Cogentin and it's sole purpose is to subdue the side effect/s Psychotropic medication/s can cause.

Had a family member on cogentin. It made her like a senile old lady even though she was only in her 30's. Before cogentin she was intelligent and articulate, she was given it due to beginning to have EPS from an older antipsychotic, after it she could not finish a sentence. I'm sure it works for a lot of people, but it is not the answer for everyone. My family member was switched to an atypical and became like herself again. She did have to go off it eventually due to the weight gain effects, but by that time she was able to do without it.

You do realize that bipolar disorder was basically unheard of prior to the introduction of the stimulants and antidepressants, right? Bipolar in children is a manufactured epidemic caused by these "professionals" who you choose to defend for some ungodly reason.. If the medications were so proven, why do you have to sample six of them to get some noticeable result? What's more, how long is that beneficial result going to carry before you get a side effect or the med suddenly becomes ineffective, and then "let's try something else!"

Psychiatrists have no clue what they are doing; the brain is so infinitely complex and modern science is nowhere near understanding it fully, and so in doling out mind altering drugs that even drug companies claim, "the exact way it works is not fully understood," they have made mental illness so much worse.

I'm not sure how long antidepressants and stimulants have been around, but I have a family member who was diagnosed as manic depressive possibly as far back as the 60's. I'm pretty sure that is before SSRI's, and I know it is before atypical antipsychotics. Manic depression is the same as bipolar. He's been on Lithium for decades, and it still works. Maybe my family has just had a lot of coincidences, but the care they have received from psychiatrists has been pretty effective, for the most part.

lithium is the best so far and cheap

Lithium made me balloon to 450 lbs during high school. During high school. If you can't imagine what that did to me - my boyfriend dumped me, my friends all ignored me, I lost everyone who I thought cared for me. I was teased mercilessly, had things thrown at me, had girls pick fights with me for no reason, had TEACHERS making comments on my size, reducing me to skipping class by hanging out in a bathroom stall until a nice woman at the career center in the library took pity on me and would write me a pass to be there all day. In the end I had to drop out and attend night classes to finish school because I couldn't walk down the hallway without someone saying something cruel.

Weight gain is a known side effect of Lithium but they sure didnt tell me it'd make me gain 300 lbs. I ate nothing, I literally tried to become anorexic so I would lose weight but it didnt help. I just kept gaining and gaining. I stopped taking the Lithium and now, 18 years later, I weigh 250 lbs and can't seem to drop below that at all.

I am still ridiculed for my weight despite having lost over TWO HUNDRED pounds.

Lithium is not the *best*. Lithium destroyed my life.

Have you had a doctor test your Thyroid? It is is sometimes a key factor in obesity and even depression in teens and adult alike. It needs to be ruled out before an accurate diagnosis can be made for mental illness. Especially if obesity runs in your family and mental illness was not prevelant in your family tree at that point. Food for thought.No pun intended.

Yes, my thyroid was tested when I was 14, again when I was 17, and again when I was 25. All tests came out normal. My great-great grandmother was a schizophrenic, my great-grandmother was bi-polar as was my great grandfather, my grandmother has adult ADHD, my mother has clinical depression, and my sister suffers from panic disorder while I suffer from panic disorder with agoraphobia due to PTSD as well as bi-polar syndrome. It was the Lithium, up until I took it I was a skinny-mini. Within two years after taking it I gained 300 lbs. None of this is exaggeration, and to this day I eat practically nothing and dance around/move around as best I can - I have always been active, even at 400 lbs I would walk for miles a day.

I suppose that I could, now at 32, demand yet another thyroid test but the idea of it coming back normal yet again is too depressing to really make me want to consider it.

sounds like a feminist conspiracy, ya think?

dnimerick, I think your observations as an educator, a person who spends 8+ hours for 5 out of 7 days per week, are not only viable, they are useful.

Although there is an exception to every rule, a child's home & social environment both have enormous impacts on his/her emotional development. To ignore that fact is tantamount to sticking ones head in the sand.

Divorce is nothing less than a wrecking ball that tears apart everything a child has grown to believe about themselves, their parents, family, and it is only a matter of time before the effects of such profound loss begin to manifest in their own lives.

That the children come from middle to upper class homes, isn't surprising either. These kids are more likely to have access to health insurance, so getting the diagnosis & having access to medications aren't at issue. Moreover, they are more likely to have at least one parent, if not both, working hard to keep these lifestyle intact, and their more likely to look for a "fix", for lack of a a better term, because of the limited time they have to deal with the child.

I could go off on a tangent about the value of time we spend with our children and taking time to get involved in their interests, hobbies, sports, and other activities. Computers, electronic games, websites & social networking sites have captured the attention of children and adults and even become obsessions for some. Again, the middle to upper class segment of society would, obviously, have more disposable income to continually add to or upgrade these luxuries.

There are many other medical, psychological and emotional contributors to the onset of any behavioral, mood or psychological problem. But, like I stated above, your observations, and those of other teachers and other child care professionals, should ALWAYS be taken into consideration and applied to any and all studies undertaken to increase our understanding of these types of disorders.

requisite anomaly, there is a book titled The War Against Boys that touches on that very subject. It's well worth reading and is written, incidentally, by a woman.

I agree that divorce may be part of the problem in many cases, but not all. All of the couples I hear saying they are only staying together 'for the kids sake' need to know and remember one thing... KIDS ARE NOT STUPID!!! If a child knows their parents are unhappy (and they know), it can be more damaging than a civilized divorce.

There was recently an article on the internet news questioning the medicating of kids for ADHD without taking into account the effects of high stress in the home on those children - that doing something about the stress, rather than medicating, should be looked at. Take a "spirited" kid, stress him out, that may be making him bounce off the walls.

Jee, throwing kids on medication is being indicated as the easy way out of things for most cases. This was debated 15 years ago.

In my state, Florida, children with ADHD whose medical care is paid for by the state/social programs are TWICE as likely to be prescribed medication as those who aren't. The stats for other psych conditions haven't been reported, but, as a Pharmacist, what I have seen would suggest they are similar.

As far as ADHD meds, I know a kid (know this kid personally) who was on meds for ADHD-not sure which med-and had a bad reaction that led this poor child to have to drop out of his freshman year of college. This is not hearsay.

ATTENTION DNIMERICK A.D.H.D. is a non-discriminating illness it strikes both rich and poor alike. The only difference is MONEY.Some families got it other don't and the ones that don't can't afford the costly diagnosis and ensueing treatment that A.D.H.D. affected children need in order to stabilize their disorder!or even recognize for that matter in a professional and medically center enviroment of which require $$ , which lower income families can't possibly afford. wake up! you might need to reevaluate your culturaly biased opinion!

I think it is that way in most states; it is cheaper to use pills that to find other (non-pharmaceutical) ways to handle the problems, so regardless of what is best for the child, they get the pills.

My son was diagnosed twice with ADHD ... over the phone. Without any data. It's shocking how quickly doctors throw meds at a child. By the way, it turns out, after a year of testing, his behavior issues were caused by seizures, which affected his frontal lobe and the executive functions. No ADHD. Seizures.

OVER THE PHONE? Is that doctor (hopefully only one) actually still practicing? I am not a medical professional, but isn't that malpractice? I know it was awful for you, but I can't even imagine what your son felt like. Most of us are taught as children that doctors are supposed to be the good guys and help us, but it sounds like they did a lot more harm than good for him. BTW send that doc's name if he is still working so we can avoid him...

My daughter was diagnosed with ADD (inattentive type) as well as a fairly significant learning disability after taking a long series of tests. We were devastated! (I was-my husband was skeptical.) It turns out my husband was right. The doctor decided to treat her for depression for some reason, and that worked-she was on the meds for less than a year. Also, we realized later, as she aced the SAT's year after year in the subject in which she was supposed to have a learning disability and later took all honors and AP classes in it, that test hadn't been accurate either. She finally told us she had gotten bored and angry and had just begun pushing buttons at random during that part of the test. I would advise anyone to be aware of your own child and what YOU think is going on. Our daughter was having severe difficulties concentrating on homework, and we wanted to know if it was willful or if she couldn't help it. That test was NOT a good idea, though.

well put!

I was given seroquel for my bipolar.

It turned me into a zombie. Imagine taking a pill which makes it so that you can no longer FEEL ANYTHING AT ALL.

Seroquel is a schizophrenia medication, it suppresses your imagination... imagine trying to think about what a cheeseburger tastes like or smells like and not being able to. Imagine trying to imagine anything but just coming up with complete blankness in your mind. I was a literal zombie. I went through the motions of life while feeling absolutely nothing, and being unable to think of anything. I have always had a rich imagination, I write stories, and seroquel took away my ability to write stories and to tell them.

The same thing happened to my uncle when he was given them. Seroquel should NOT be given to people who are not schizophrenic. It is a horrible medication that steals away from you your very soul.

I am now taking Xanax extended release for my panic disorder and self medicating my bipolar/depression with marijuana (approved by my therapist off the record, no medical MJ laws in my state). I feel so much better, and I will never stop warning people about the horrible thing that is known as seroquel.

I am glad you "feel" better with your current choices of medications, but buyer beware benzodiazapines "benzos" are highly addictive like your xanax. I Just thank god your not taking klonapin "I think thats how it's spelled but dont have my psychotropic medication manual with me to check" that benzo is the worst and even more addictive than your current med and very wicked to detox from At least in my opinion, Be that as it may.

I took Klonopin for a little while but it didnt do anything for me. I discussed the addictive properties of Xanax with my doctor, and we decided that as long as I take it as prescribed (since it is extended release I only need one a day) while I may still become addicted to it, it shouldn't interfere with my life any more than my current caffiene addiction is. Xanax may be the most commonly abused benzo, but I have never really been a fan of overusing/abusing pharmaceuticals because they are not truly "natural" and have been created by man. I use them only because I truly seek to live as normal a life as possible while suffering from these diseases. For years I was unmedicated (after the seroquel debacle I had a hard time trusting any medication) but now that I have found a combination which works, I am really grateful. Now if I could just fix everything else about me I dont like :p

Family member who took antipsychotics took seroquel without losing her imagination at all-she actually wrote lots of poetry, some of which got published! Different people react differently. She didn't want to use benzos due to addictions in the family, and she said they didn't work anyway. Only problem was the weight gain.

Death and Taxes, my friend. Death and Taxes.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

Throughout history, we've seen self regulation work just fine. I mean, why do you think Unions were formed? B/c business owners were doing the right things to workers, of course.

Love the sarcasm,TOUCHE!

It does make sense. I'm bipolar, and my son is also mentally ill. His psychiatrist does not want to give him a diagnosis because my son is only 13. Since his body and hormones are still going through so many changes, the psychiatrist wants to wait until some of that evens out and then see what major symptoms still present.

We've found that limiting the amount of tv and video game time is extremely beneficial, as is making sure our son gets a well balanced diet. Sleep is also incredibly important. I don't think people really realize how important sleep is.

Meds will always be needed in cases like mine and my son's, but you can't just throw one med at both of us and expect it to work in the same way. Some of the older meds made me a zombie. I wasn't living life; I was existing from day-to-day. I'm very grateful that I have a psychiatrist who is informed, and that I inform myself about what my options are so we can discuss these things.

There are many professionals who advocate for more studies on the benefits and/or of dietary changes, sleep patterns, exercise and environmental conditions. There are too many reasons those suffering from these disturbing diagnoses end up taking these medications, but none so powerful as the simple issue of doctors and Big Pharma pulling the strings. I've seen people NEVER get properly diagnosed, yet their attending physician thinks NOTHING at throwing every "new & improved" drug their patients way. What's REALLY sad about this pattern is the # of addicts these "Candy Men" have created by engaging in this reckless and faux practice of medicine. They are aided and abetted, if not controlled, by the pharmaceutical companies who now, thanks to advertising deregulation, are allowed to advertise their "candies" to everyone and advise those viewers to: "Ask your doctor about "X" to see if it's right for you!"

There are many prescription drug addicts out there today who NEVER should have been prescribed these medications, and who STILL remain undiagnosed to this day. I know a person like this, and it has been heartbreaking to watch her life just fall apart, no matter what we've done to help them. It makes me FURIOUS!

I appreciate ALL the giving & loving people who take time to try any and all holistic remedies available to those who suffer from these psychological, mood and emotional disorder.

hollistic? your an idiot! I am off SSI because of these new drugs.

Apparently, it is impossible to have a discussion about mental illness without some smug health-nut saying we all just need to exercise more. Of course the effects of diet, exercise, and sleep have been studied (you shouldn't assume your ignorance of these studies means they don't exist, by the way), and they have their benefits for certain illnesses, but are no cure. Conversely, poor diet, insufficient sleep, and a sendentary lifestyle are not a cause of mental illness, either. To know this requires not a study but only common sense. Six out of ten Americans are obese (not just out of shape, obese), but the number of Americans with depression is a comparatively small 1 in 10, and only 1 in 100 is bipolar. And I'd be willing to bet at least some of them are health nuts. Where is your correlation? Unfortunately, people feel that just because they can post a comment, that they ought to do it, whether they know anything about the topic or not. The general public is extremely ignorant and prejudiced about mental illness. If you aren't a doctor and you aren't close to this issue, do us all a favor and listen for once instead of running your mouth.

momstheword

Humans are OMNIVORES. Children who are on vegan diets DO NOT develop to their full genetic potential. (Neither do children who don't eat vegetables) Using supplements such as soy protein and omega 3's from vegetable sources do not supply what is needed and may even be harmful, (I don't trust artificial modified soy protein at all).

My family member who was diagnosed as bipolar (actually manic depressive, as it was 40 yrs ago or so) was not obese, unhealthy, or out of shape. He got plenty of exercise outdoors, ate well, and had no unhealthy habits. For another family member with depression, the doctor tried all holistic remedies first. Talk therapy was also part of treatment, and she only was on meds for about a year or less. Also, with my migraines, my neurologist prescribed all holistic remedies before we ever tried any medications. I've said before that maybe it was just a lot of coincidences, but my family has seemed to get mostly good care from doctors. (There have been a few...but we just changed doctors.)

I agree that those who have not been around mental illness or are not doctors need to stop making pronouncements about it. There are way too many misconceptions out there, and there is way too much of a tendency to blame the sufferer.

Momstheword -

I agree with the sentiment that before trying pharmaceuticals for our various ills, we should examine our diets and lifestyles. Our "food" today has more chemicals, additives, and preservatives than actual food in it. In a constant effort to make things appear "healthier," the food industry is manipulating everything we eat - taking fat out of this, adding chemical sugars into that, making this look more appetizing by making the color more intense, and so forth. These things are not good for us, and I really believe that so many of our physical and mental problems are a direct result of the way we eat. We need to eat food, not food products.

However, like other people have said, mental illnesses are very real, and you can eat all the right things and exercise every day and still end up with crippling depression (or another mental illness). I know because I'm one of those people. I got severely depressed, so I purged all the chemical junk from my diet, exercised to the best of my ability (I also have arthritis), and tried all the treatments nature had to offer.

And I was still severely depressed. I saw my doctor and went through the gauntlet of antidepressants until I got to Cymbalta, which has literally saved my life.

So yeah, being a crunchy earth-hippie at heart, I believe that getting rid of all the chemicals and artificial crap in our foods will do us all a world of good. But even then, mental illness can sink its claws into you and not let go without the help of man-made pharmaceuticals. And no one should be made to feel guilty or lazy or "not good enough" for accepting that help.

Really? I've prescribed Geodon, and Pfizer never cut me any checks. I throw the bulls*it flag in your general direction.

No, no kickbacks. I wish there were, I"d make way more as a primary care doc than I do now. But, sadly, no kickbacks here. Swear on my kids' lives.

I assume you are an M.D., or work for Big Pharma.

Your right on. Once a patient find the right drug, a very individual choice, life can become worthwhile. But you are also correct about the irresponsibility of the report. It is an Obamacare mantra, " we will now control your drugs" It is about eliminating high cost medications and limiting choices to keep the cap on the high cost of the plan. A high cost we were told was not at issue. Get your evidence from old studies, use doctors with govenment jobs and you can make the reduction of available care almost sound as if you really care about the patients. It is rationing for those helpless to fight it and least likely to attract public sympathy if the battle is lost. The drugs, for many, are a miracle. The story is just junk reporting, using junk science to support the junk aims of Obama's junk administation.

"...use may be fatal..." -- from "My Psychopharmacologist and I", next to normal

At least some antidepressants say that they can cause Serotonin Syndrome and Neuroleptic Malignant Symdrome which can be fatal right on the information from the pharmacy. The symptoms are also listed, and the patient is urged to seek medical help right away if experiencing them. I have read this several times on info for several different antidepressants given to my family.

Seroquel steals your soul and leaves you an empty, unfeeling shell. I wouldn't call that an "easier to live with" side effect. Not to mention many of these drugs can cause weight gain in the HUNDREDS of pounds (Lithium, while not an anti psychotic caused me to balloon to 450 lbs in high school - I have since dropped down to 250 but can't go any further and am ridiculed for my weight despite having lost TWO HUNDRED pounds.)

These are not "easier to tolerate" side effects.

The new one haven't been around long enough to know the extent of the side effects. Geodon was the new 'miracle drug' several years ago... until they found out it caused major hormonal issues and the risk of breast cancer went through the roof. It is such a race to get new drugs out that they are not properly tested (that takes years). Just look at all the 'old' drugs that are now being dropped by the FDA.

I google that book title and read the reviews and the synopsis. I will definitely buy this book. Thank you.

This is a great book, I second the recommendation