Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comYoung women tied to abortion rise in China
Seeded on Sun Jan 9, 2011 1:54 PM EST (msnbc.com)
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Absolutely amazing! Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but it seems to me that the attitudes can be summed up as:
"I don't want to have kids but I can't do without sex".
Babies are the product of unprotected sex! If you don't know how to use contraceptives, then don't have sex!
Of course most liberals and republicans think that I'm being impractical and that we should just subsidize abortions or childcare for all the idiots who are too dumb or too poor to use/afford contraceptives.
And you would rather these idiots have kids?
The people here in the US who have abortions are people that I don't want raising children.
There are many people in the US who have children that I don't want reproducing.
I could not agree more Andrew. Walk into any Walmart and you will see a lot of people who should not have children.
I prefer not to. :P
Me neither! I have not walked into one in over 6 years and I don't plan to ever walk into another one as long as I live.
I have never been to a Walmart and never will go to one. But I've seen what you are referring to when I used to work in a toy store.
Snobs. Nothing wrong with Walmart. People gotta shop where they can afford to. Guess some folks would rather pay higher prices than rub elbows with us'n po' folks!
But, back to the subject...didn't know men could consider having an abortion...but sounds like a lot of people- male and female- need to use contraceptives.
Actually, there are tons of things wrong with Wal Mart excluding their customers.
Please, enlighten me! Know you are just waiting to be asked...
Actually I was hoping that you wouldn't, since it is a long list.
I'll try to keep it simple, though.
Among the issues are that they kill small businesses that overlap with them. Some small towns have reported that Wal Mart starts with low prices and after the local stores are out of business they raise the price to be higher than the small store was originally selling.
They rarely, if ever, update their stores leaving a decaying hull to drag down neighborhoods. Eventually they may abandon the store leaving blighted neighborhoods.
There are worker's rights issues, and many other things.
Their health care plans are garbage and Walmart actively encourages their workers to get on government assistance. From day one orientation they warn you to not get involved with a union - got to keep those wages low! Their stores are a mess, trashed by rednecks and their bratty undisciplined kids. Walmart is part of outsourcing so they can brag about lower prices. Walmart engages in censorship due to religious feelings or being PC, they pull out music by various artists, different books, refuse to sell all kinds of things for very petty reasons. They pay their top executives massive amounts of money and keep all the worker bees in abject poverty.
The list goes on and on.
The woman in the story needs to get an abortion so she can stay in school and go to work in a factory producing cheap crappy products to be sold in Walmart. It's the circle of life.
One of my old colleagues daughter worked for walmart for 10 years. She's under 5 ft tall and averages 95 pounds. When she got pregnant, her doctor put her on strict work limitations because of her small size, her boss at walmart had her on a stool lifting boxing onto shelves. She fell, and walmart made her take a drug test. They tired everything they could to get rid of her so they wouldn't have to cover her medical costs nor deal with her maternity leave.
B.S. Alert, B.S. Alert.
If one exceeds their medically mandated restrictions, it is their own fault. Do not blame Walmart for for someone else's stupidity.
This also has alot to do with the abortion rate in China because............
Sex education in China is obviously lagging behind; however, an (early) abortion is preferable in my opinion to having to drop out of school and spending your life in a sweat shop. As far as we are concerned, subsidized and accessible birth control and abortions may well prevent young girls from falling into the welfare pit and being supported by the rest of society. As far as Walmart is concerned, as long as people in this country do not demand affordable healthcare for all, Walmart employees and others will never have it. Isn't it ironic that those who have the best healthcare available, paid for by you and me, (I'm talking about elected officials like Boehner) will do anything in their power to deny their constituents this same care.
Dang, I need to go to China. The Sixties are happening all over again!
Free Love.
Yeah I met a Chinese woman several years ago, she didn't waste much time before making her desires known. I don't think their culture programs them to have guilt or hangups about sex like America tries to.
Stupid subject line! I didn't think that abortions were higher in China for young men!
Good job, you beat me to it. I was going to say..Well what did you expect, a rise among older men maybe..
The title was trying to emphasize that mostly young women were doing the abortions, and not older women.
You're both morons. Learn to read.
The title was an example of piss poor writing, which happens to be standard for AP articles.
Gee thank you professor Einstein.
Guess humor is something you either don't understand or appreciate. BTW: Humor is one of the things that separates just the functional mind from the developed mind.
Sorry embarrassed, not you but Professor Einstein is actually the Bald guy just before you on post 2.2
The title said "young women". And any body who is not a "young women" must be a "young men". How about "old men", or the other... the other.... oh, what is it. No way. It must not be "matured women"......
You know, the joke really isn't as funny as you guys think it is...
The Title of the article is reffering to it being young women, instead of older married or not married women. If you read the article it goes on to say that abortion was only heard of if they got pregnant after they already had a child, but now its hitting the younger women who are not married there for "shouldnt be having sex." Anyone not a young woman must be a young man....how about OLDER WOMEN as apposed to younger ones??!!
Hey, I'm just pointing out your serious comprehension problems.
Take it or leave it buddy boy. Oh, and your joke would be oh so funny if there was actually something wrong with the title; since there isn't, it appears the joke is on you.
Sorry, once I learn what ones level of understanding and responses are limited to, I will only communicate on that level so that I don't seem to be rude by ignoring them. So........ See the stick boy, See the stick.........Fetch. Good boy. yes, you are a good boy.
It would be pretty wild if the abortion rate was higher among elderly men!
Yeah, those geezers are squeezing em out like crazy. Unintended consequence of Viagra.
Viagra helps you get hard, not bust a nut.
That's kind of like saying that watering an apple tree doesn't give you apples; it only grows the tree.
It's 2 separate things. Viagra geta you hard, but doesn't help fertility. Hormones can help with fertility, but may not keep you hard.
But you can be fertile without the ability to get hard. They do not go hand-in-hand.
Hand in hand might be the problem. Please try putting it elsewhere.
It's hard to wrap my mind around 10 million abortions being done every year.
Why is it? Doesn't China have a population of 1.2B people? Why would they want to add 8% more people a year?
It's just a medical procedure. Big countries naturally have more of them. I mean, do you know how many tonsils are removed every year? How many cataracts are fixed? Prostates worked on surgically? It gets pretty mind-blowing.
Let's see. China has 40 million government officials and 70 million CPC members. If every four government officials will enforce one abortion a year.... Eh, that's not hard work at all...
Guess our perspectives are different, that's all. I see it as something more significant than a medical procedure, and 10 M fetuses as more than merely an addition of 8% to the population. I respect your right to your opinion. I also respect mine.
Well, I doubt that many of them are actual fetuses. I'm sure a large number of them are terminated well before that stage of development.
By the end of 2010, China's population was estimated to be around 1.4 billion, and 10 million is about 0.75% (not 8%) of that number.
Given China's huge population, ~10 million abortions is actually pretty low. In comparison, it's estimated that the U.S. has about 1.3 million abortions per year, which is a bit less than 0.50% of our population. So there's only about a 0.25% difference between us and them.
This is extremely sad.
Don't worry. If the Chinese can engineer a social program to kill 10 million of their own a year, they should very easily police the sex education of their girls. I'm sure there will be a different standard for their boys. The Chinese are efficient! I'm not so sure that's an honorable thing.
On the other hand Chinese have far less sex and kids in the first place than Americans...
They have less kids because they can only legally have one, two if they live in the country and their first is a girl.
I'm still concerned about a country that has a quarter of the world population and are killing off baby girls to make room for boys. Who are these boys going to marry, or even "date"? There is already a major illegal trafficing of women being helped to escape North Korea, only to be forced to marry Chinese men.
I've been expecting a war, just so China can conquer some countries and pillage their women.
wow, that's gross. luckily it's all good here in the states. babies have no right to live.
Well you are kind of right, the USA has an infant mortality right that is on the rise because of poor health care, we have more teen pregnancies and preemies than many other developed countries like Sweden, Germany, France, England....... We are not good at caring for or educating our children. But I don't think that is what you meant. There is one bright spot and that is that the number of teen pregnancies in the USA has actually declined slightly in the last ten years.
oops that should be rate instead of right..... oh well spell check can't catch everything right? lol
Actually the UK has one of the highest rates of teen pregnancies in Europe.
I need to go to the UK, right after China. the sixties all over again! Free Love!
What is good here in the U.S. is individual liberty. No one has the right to force their opinions and beliefs on another.
Yet it happens all the time, unfortunately.
No we can't enforce our opinions on these women here in the U.S. But I am forced to pay for welfare for their six or seven kids. If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them. Period.
As much as this story and others like it grieve my heart to its core, God Almighty, the Creator of all life, surely must be beyond grief. : (
Veronica, I agree with you - and if others don't like what you say, this is a public forum. An estimated 13 million dead babies is certainly something to grieve over. And the article says they bury the ones that look like babies at 3-4 months old. God weeps.
keep you're opinions to yourself. if god created everything, we are smaller then ants to him compared to the size of our universe and the millions like it. if there is a god, abortion rates in china are the least of his worries.
God, the creator of the AIDS virus, obviously don't give a sh*t about mothers or orphans. God, the omni-incompetent lard-ass.
*shrugs*
Mothers and fathers decided to abandon their children. God doesn't come down and prevent them from doing that. He sends people that try to convince not to do that, but the mother decided to abandon them. God gives us free will to do whatever we want to. As for the AIDS, if people demontrated more self-control with sex we wouldn't be having that problem. It is sin that brought all the diseases, pain, and suffering. God created a perfect world, but Adam and Eve decided to eat the forbidden fruit. God told them not to eat it, but they did. This is called the Fall of Man. As a result of this, we have diseases, pain, suffering, and death.
For 30 years the republican party has run on a platform where they swear to end roe v wade and they never have. If I was an Evangelical Christian I would demand my money back.
If, If there was a God he would stop all abortions. And other killings as well. But as you can see, There is no God. Sorry.
There is no such thing as 'free will' or an accident, if I take it to mean what I think you mean.
Everything is bound together by causal links. Thus the idea of God is outdated.
End of off-topic conversation.
Christianity is outdated. Wish we could convert them to humanism. Dump the dogma, embrace your fellow man, and the planet we live on. Take care of both, and we will prosper. Be at war with both, and we will suffer.
Ugh, I refuse to believe in humans. Come up with a better fairy-tale.
"Once upon a time...."
P.A.C
.
Curiously, your god could be considered to be an "absentee parent" who abandoned the children he created, as well. It's not considered to be okay for a human father (or mother) to have kids and just leave them to themselves without any kind of guidance except for "a book" and other humans who claim to know him. (Though they've never personally met him, or even had so much as a phone call with him.) So why would that be okay for a god to do, whose believers refer to as "Our Father, who art in heaven...?"
.
Veronica, I had a few abortions when I was young, and now that I'm 50 and a Pastors wife I truly understand that I murdered my children. Only God has the power of life and death. Unless you are in a self defense situation. AMEN Its nice to see we still have some BOLD Christians out there who still stand for what is morally right!
First of all, I am a Republican, not a Democrat Denissr. Second of all, I adopted my child when his birth mother changed her mind and decided not to abort him after all.
If the moral institution of the Catholic church is how one's life is conformed to, then that is a choice of that individual. However, the light is seen in many different ways and not everyone has that same conviction.
To insist upon how others decide for themselves is the hypocracy in itself. Would a Christian allow for a different culture to dictate over their beliefs?
God does not have emotions, nor does She cry. That's why God is God.
What a sad and tragic article. What has happened to human respect in China? It can't be explained away as O.K. for any reason to murder so many innocent unborn children. It is obvious that the young women grieve over what they do as they are ashamed...they know they are ending a new life having an abortion. There should be as much effort put into education and birth control as they put into forced abortion....it would help prevent conception in the first place and save so many from a far too early death. Not to mention the huge emotional toll it takes on these young women. It is said that you can judge how good a country is by how they treat their very young and their very old..............
Darwin, I happen to agree with your recent comments, although they have been "collapsed by the community", (and we know which community that would be.) I am absolutely fed up with the right wing religious groups who want everyone to think that they have the only correct values, while they run roughshod over my own. Here are your comments again, for those who may have wanted to read them but were cut off from doing so. With my appreciation.
"I thought I'd scan the opinions, and sure enough... veronica had to do it, with the representative God post. God is not the creator of all life, so let's put that myth to place. God did not create humans. God did not create the Earth. Heck, contrary to the Pope's latest effort to blur the line between true science and religion, God did not create the Universe 13.73 Billion (that's 13,730 million veronica) years ago. As a science educator, it sickens me to have to displace posts like Veronica's. I do it because today's youth are being given misleading information from people with little or no facts (other than their biased beliefs) regarding subjects they have no authority to cover. Veronica, keep your God and your beliefs compartmentalized in your home, church. Don't spread it anywhere else." - Poster Darwin
I thought I'd scan the opinions, and sure enough... veronica had to do it, with the representative God post. God is not the creator of all life, so let's put that myth to place. God did not create humans. God did not create the Earth. Heck, contrary to the Pope's latest effort to blur the line between true science and religion, God did not create the Universe 13.73 Billion (that's 13,730 million veronica) years ago. As a science educator, it sickens me to have to displace posts like Veronica's. I do it because today's youth are being given misleading information from people who little or no facts (other than their biased beliefs) regarding subjects they have no authority to cover. Veronica, keep your God and your beliefs compartmentalized in your home, church. Don't spread it anywhere else
What sickens me Darwin, are self righteous, condescending, pin headed liberal academics like yourself, who think they have all the answers. You condemn Veronica for her belief in a deity...she may be right or she may be wrong...there is no way to prove her point of view and you sure as hell cannot prove her wrong. At least she has a core belief and I'll take that over a soul less automaton like yourself. Today's youth are in much bigger jeopardy from the brainwashing influence that you represent. I'll take Veronica any day to educate my kids over the likes of you.
oh thanks. to think i've been believing the myth all these years and now you clear it up for me. man, i owe you a debt there. that veronica. what a bimbo thinking first amendment rights spread all the way to the msnbc web site. doesn't she know the only time you can freely express your opinions and beliefs are when they're in line with keith olberman? man, some one give her a quarter so she can buy a clue. thanks science educator. i imagine it must be frustrating teaching science to unruly kids all day who couldn't give two cents to your beliefs. thankfully veronica is here to take all of it out on. better than kicking a dog.
Well said, Darwin. Sooner or later the country is just going to have to accept these facts. I mean, these people have no problem believing in science when it lets them type words onto the internet, or fly in a jet across the country, or helps their sick child fight a disease. Only when it's politically expedient do they stop believing in science.
she can spread it where she wants humanist. keep your trust in man, they are doing a great job. one day, i'm sad to say you'll find that there is a God, but it will be too late by then.
bravo darwin!!! these are the most commonsensical comments i ve seen on the web in the last 12 months!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you!!!!!!!!!!
Last time I checked this is still America. Veronica has the right to post whatever the heck she wants. The same way you can post your disapproval of her belief in God. She shouldn't have to compartmentalize her opinions. Also, since you are a science teacher, Evolution is a theory not a fact that is why it is called the THEORY of Evolution. Creation is a theory not a fact that is why it is called the THEORY of Creation. Your a science teacher I don't have to explain the definition of theory. It was a fact that the Earth was flat turned out it wasn't. That "fact" was turned over by one man that sailed around the world. Creation and Evolution can not be proved or disapproved. Nobody has lived billions of years to witness Evolution. Nobody lived during Creation except Adam and Eve and they are dead. If we had a time machine, we could easily solve the problem. We have not developed the technology yet, so the battle will contine to rage.
He just said she shouldn't post it. He didn't say she shouldn't have the right to post it.
And no, we don't have a time machine, PAC, so by that logic we shouldn't believe that Napoleon lived. Right?
Yes, how dare anyone have an opinion different from yours.
Darwin: I'm willing to go toe to toe with you education-wise...
If you believe every scientific theory out there (many of which are downright silly) quite frankly you have more faith than I (who merely believes that humans who have the ability to reason and form well-thought arguments had to be created by a power higher than us.)
Re: You condemn Veronica for her belief in a deity...she may be right or she may be wrong...there is no way to prove her point of view.
Because there is no God! 6 days now we know that ain't true, world wide flood we know that isn't true, all the animals in the world on the ark, we know that isn't true, a good deal of the Bible is provably not true! Of course we can prove that the earth is spherical, but there are still people who think its flat and all the proof in the world can't change their minds. she needs a Dady to make it all better and thats sad we need more adults in the world grow up Petter Pan!
in a time where the conduct of people toward each other was probably worse than it is now, as unbelievable that is, Jesus asked people to do two things. love they neighbor as yourself and have no other God than God. The first, most of you show your inability to do, so it is doubtful you'd ever do the second. The first though is unassailable.
Darwin, who are you to say that there is no God? I think there is room for all opinions on this subject and Veronica has the right to express her's here too. Do not stand on the frail argument that you are a science educator. I know many Paleontologists who are men and women of faith. The real Darwin never said that there was no God, he merely put forth the theory of inheritable change through time.
No, freedom of speech does not apply to online forums. Or is that you have missed the people who have their posts deleted and those who are banned? If you read the constitution you would know what the first amendment applied to: censorship from the government.
You just displayed to thousands of people that you have no concept of the scientific method. Congratulations for sharing you ignorance! A "scientific theory" is an entirely different animal than a "theory." Creation is a story written in a book that claims to be true. Creationism is pseudo-science pretending to be on equal footing with the well-supported scientific theory of Evolution. Creationism was never peer-reviewed and is not considered science for many reason, one of which is that it offers no testable hypotheses that can be falsified.
But I digress, you won't even read or comprehend my post.
Darwin,
Who created the first cell? The first bacteria?
@dam tired of this
Do you want the right answer, or the easy answer?
Why do you have a need to lash out at Veronica? Why does the concept of a Supreme Being being upset over the actions of his creation drive you to such anger? Veronica made no statements concerning creation vs evolution nor did she say anything againt homosexuals. Your problem isn't with Veronica: it's with God.
Jesus loves you and there is nothing you can do to change that. He wants to have a relationship with you but it is going to be on HIS terms. He does not demand that you to clean yourself up but to meet him as you are. If anything in your life is not pleasing to him, He will empower you to change if you will but ask.
You can't outright prove anything, other than that you experience sensations.
Thus the 'provable' argument is completely ridiculous.
But some theories have more evidence supporting them than others. When these theories overlap or contradict, the one with more evidence is what I would consider 'valid'.
Thus I do not believe on God. You can, I don't really care. You agree with me, great, so do a lot of people.
End of story, go back home kids.
If one looks hard and long enough one can usually find that for which one seeks.
Andrew,
I prefer the proper answer..........the one my science books never answered.
The proper answer is that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
There are questions that were asked hundreds of years ago that could not be answered until recently.
Andrew,
In other words, you don't know the answer.
Actually, my answer is accurate.
It is in the works.
Ok, let's go with this question then:
If science is correct and all life on earth has been created from a single molecule, then why are there so many different creatures on earth and why do these creatures have sexual reproduction organs?
Don't worry about it Andrew.............I'm sure there's not a single scientist on earth that can answer that question for me.
/facepalm
That's evolution! Every single scientist worth his/her salary should be able to answer that.
Are you trying to say that there's not a single scientist worth his/her salary?
The problem with most creationists/christians/muslims ect is that they believe they already know all they need to know about science and the world and life. Any view contradicting theirs is invalid, because they were indoctrinated from birth by their parents and religious systems. The smartest people who were raised religious eventually, as they grow up, start to ask the tough questions religion and it's proponents can't answer, their curiosity overwhelms the feeble lies and deceptions the religious institutions spin to keep people believing, and they break free in their minds. Most though are content to stay sheep, being told what to think, what to believe, and watching Faux 'news'. Don't know something? Simple, the answer is god! How comforting! It explains everything!
If there were no scientists, and only religion, we'd still be in the dark ages with a life expectancy of 30 years, with widespread suffering and church sponsored torture and repression and persecution of anyone who wouldn't believe.
I now realize that you are actually a troll. Good night.
Michael,
I don't much believe in either theory............neither theory gives the answer to my question.
Religious: Adam created from dust, eve from his rib.......say what? Then why the need for sexual organs to reproduce? Why don't men pop up out of the dirt over and over again and pop a rib to create themselves a woman?
Science: All life was created from a single molecule........say what? Then why are there so many different life forms and why the need for sexual organs to reproduce? Why don't these molecules keep turning in to humans and animals all by themselves?
If you really ponder both explanations, the religious view is more plausible because god supposedly created one of each sex as (for lack of a better word) pets to keep him company.......then they disobeyed him and ate the apple so god decided to punish them and (eve especially) and make them suffer................but why didn't he just destroy them instead and start all over with new pets that did obey him?
As I said, evolution explains that.
Andrew,
Sorry but it seems you are the troll.........I asked a straight simple question..........you couldn't answer it but instead chose to post your logical fallacy garbage which unfortunately has proved your not very logical.
And no, evolution DOES NOT explain it!
How much have you read about science or evolution, Dam? Seriously.
Michael, you should have paid closer attention in your history class. If you had, you would know that many of the first scientists were Catholic clergymen (monks). You've heard of Roger Bacon, Gregor Mendel, William of Ockhum and many others...but wait, you weren't paying attention. If you had, you would realize that the development of scientific thought grew through the efforts of religious men and women and with the support of the Church. In fact, just the opposite of your conclusion is true. We were able to break free from the squalor of the middle ages because of religious people practicing their religion.
Michael,
I've study enough to know that the theory of evolution is also BS. I find it amazing how many people are afraid to ask some really tough questions of both theories.
BTW, why hasn't the world seen any monkey's evolve into men and women over the last several centuries after they procreate of course and have more little baby monkeys or do they pop out human babies these days.
Again, I'm not defending either side of this argument because I believe that both theories are incorrect..........they are just different ways of explaining the same phenomena.............life on earth.
Eric - you didn't have a choice back then! You either acted like a believer, or you were punished/killed! You can claim they were religious, but I think if you could go back in time and ask them how they really felt about it, they'd admit they thought it was BS - some individuals are just too smart to fall for it. Politicians do this today, claim to be religious and mention god, because it can be hard to get enough votes to win without doing this.
Religion got Europe out of the dark ages? That's some magical thinking there. I know the knights code of honor and chivalry had played a part. "During the Protestant Reformation of the 16th and 17th centuries, Protestants wrote of the Middle Ages as a period of Catholic corruption" I think religion was more a part of the problem than the solution. As it remains today. "During the 17th and 18th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment, many critical thinkers saw religion as antithetical to reason. For them the Middle Ages, or "Age of Faith", was therefore the polar opposite of the Age of Reason"
Religion is regressive, the enemy of science and progress.
Michael, you are so wrong on so many levels. First, you presume that a medieval monk would perceive his world the same way you do. Seriously??? Second, admission into a religious community is now and has always been totally voluntary. You have to apply to be let in and undergo a trial period before they allow you to stay. You wouldn't do that if you thought it was in any way BS. And by the way, those knights in shining armor were not, in general what you think. Third, it was not religion that got Europe out of the Dark Ages, but it was men and women of religion and their Church that preserved and fostered the arts and sciences that made the Renaissance possible. Your conclusion that religion is regressive and the enemy of science and progress is not born out by the facts of history. Finally, no one claims that the Catholic Church has, in every way been perfect. It is, after all, run by imperfect men. But its historical effect is far from the scourge of mankind you picture it to have been.
The only good thing about Abortion is that these poor unwanted gifts from God will be in heaven. Abortion is so ugly and in the eyes of God, it is murder.
We all have our own opinion Darwin, yours just happens to be wrong. The only opinion that counds is God's and yes God did do all of the things you say he did not do.
The Proof you will ask for is all around you. Just one: If you look in the mirror and just imagine for a moment that you can see right through the layers of exterior skin you will see the most complex living creation on earth. The Human body. There is Nothing any more beautiful than the workings of the human body and if you think that evolution could have created such a magnificent creation you are so wrong. Mankind was created by the love of God, then he breathed air into your lungs so that you could praise Him. If God does not give your body the air it needs each and every day to live, you can kiss this world good bye.
God tells us to have faith and trust in Him, if you do not have faith and trust in God what do you trust in? satan! plain and simple.
God loves you and created you so He could love you and you could love Him.
God gives us free will, if God chose to do everything for us why would we have any reason to love Him.
If you are a spoiled child you are worthless. God sees the pain that is caused here because of the sin of mankind and He gives us a choice to choose Christ over sin. So what is your choice, Sin or Christ.
Hmm so you think it all happened by accident? So I guess your still figuring out your purpose in life. And maybe you should let people have their opinions. To me abortion is wrong. The child is alive from coception it has a heartbeat, sucks it thumb, and moves. I honestly don't think you have had a child. I have and to hear it's heart beat and to see it move is the most wonderful feeling ever. You could never know unless you go throught it. So stop beating up on Chirstians we don't beat up on you.
Darwin, which part of Darwinism (evolution theory) is scientific? Show me please.
Reeeder - um... all of it! Why do you think scientists almost universally embrace it? They aren't idiots you know, they've created this modern world you live in. Science is progress, religion is not.
put down the bible and pick up a science textbook
Maybe the Palin twits can take their abstinence circus to China. And stay there!
I think the twits are the people who don't understand that abstinence is the answer for other things besides unwanted pregnancies
Abstinence causes irritability.
That is why God gave us hands and vibrators!
It certainly is not the same, unless you are doing it wrong.
darn, I knew something was wrong with that technique I was using!
Did you plug in the power glove?
next you'll tell me to take off my self winding watch if I'm male and that batteries aren't included if I"m a female. Tell me it isn't so! Excuse my writing, the power glove doesn't work well on the laptop.
The Chinese are always bragging about how technologically advanced they are. You'd think that people there would know how to use the newest technology in contraception. They tend to cut way too many corners when developing products. It's probably not a good idea to buy any contraception that's made in China. It would fall apart right away. The factory workers there are children that were conceived because of their failed products. Buy American!
The girl did say her contraception didn't work!
When is the last time you looked at a contraceptive package to see where it is made. Most are made in India.
Zheng,
LOL, well no wonder their so overpopulated!
J Katz
Try robbing a bank, or speaking out against the gay life style, or any other of an endless number of politically correct subjects
Last time I checked, speaking out against people who were born gay is all the rage in America...
What's wrong with robbing a bank?
Andrew - if too many people rob banks, they won't be able to pay obscene bonuses to their executives who gamble all the money on derivatives and cause recession.
Think of the executives, man! Those mansions in the Hamptons aren't cheap! They need more tax breaks too, it's rough out there for the rich, such difficult lives they lead, having to choose from so much luxury, crying about having to pay their share, crying about class warfare. It's just so unfair, having to be rich in America.
It's far more tolerable that the banks rob us instead.
"
"Abortions in China on rise, especially among young women"
...and declining among older men?
Abortions were more common among married women because of the strict laws of China. Now with the changes in thier society, younger women are getting more abortions. It is more acceptable to have an abortion than to be an unmarried mother.
We are a sick world! When the Lord decides to stop the music, it isn't going to be pretty.
Is the Lord a fat lady? Only she can end the show.
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
for all of you that are afraid of China as the next super power, fear not! Not only is the abortion rate staggering, but it is only a matter of time when the population will be all-male (females are undesireable under one-child policy). They may have a huge population now, but they're not immortal. One day there will be no women left in China and the "good ol boy's club" will be left in ruins. Oh no!! Who will manufacure iphones and other cheap labor garbage? Maybe we are all doomed!
Do you expect that they would allow that to happen? I think you underestimate their scientific capabilities.
They will put a womb in every other man that is born so that they can reproduce.
Sorry, you're mistaken. Women are being imported from Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. Don't have to raise these girls from babies, they're already adult and fertile.
They can always import women and babies from nearby impoverished Asian nations.
Hey, Darwin, Mr. Science teacher:  explain, if you can, the "Big Bang".  You know, that event that occurred 13,730 million years ago.  Science does not have an answer for everything.  Of all that can be known in the universe, we really don't know too much more than we did a thousand years ago. Science is rooted in a quest to know more about God by studying his creations. It's been secularized since but I am certain that as we learn more, at some point in the future science will validate religion.  In the meantime, believers should have a voice.  You have no business telling anyone where and when they can express their views.
Science doesn't have an answer YET.
And believe me, the "believers" have a voice. They control every facet and level of the military, have an essential monopoly over our entire economy, almost unanimously make up our three branches of government, and consist of a voter majority so overwhelmingly large that they can, and regularly DO, violate the constitutional liberties of others. They DEFINITELY have a voice, Eric.
hey, leave that guy alone. darwin knows what he's talking about. as a science educator there's little he doesn't know.
There's Toasty again....spewing his liberal B.S. Please grace us with your warped perspective and wisdom and explain how the constitutional rights of others are being violated by the "believers". I can't wait for this.
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the "Defense of Marriage Act." Or SB-1070 from Arizona. The numerous school boards who regularly vote to unconstitutionally put religion into public school curriculum.
Feel free to address what I post one of these days, ceo, instead of just calling me names.
I must have missed where the DOMA was ruled unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court...please point that out.
It's still in effect. And just because they do violate the rights of others, it doesn't mean it sticks. Look at Prop 8 out of California.
So the bottom line is that the DOMA is still constitutional, along with religion in school curriculum...therefore the constitutional liberties of others have not been violated.............you're wrong again...........end of discussion. Bye.
If you bothered to read and comprehend the constitution you would see why religion is unconstitutional in schools.
I guess that you are content remaining ignorant of the law. Somebody (SCOTUS) needs to tell you everything. No synthesizing information on your own!
Ya see....this is what happens when you take things out of context....the context being the entire discussion above....you end up sounding like a fool. Which in your case...probably isn't your first time. The discussion centered around the subject of religion as an academic endeavor...the teaching about religion...which is perfectly permissible, as codified in the 1960 Supreme Court ruling of Abington vs Schempp. But no, you had to spout off your big mouth and act like you were telling me something I didn't already know...who's the ignorant one now.
It's funny how you are incapable of seeing how it is related. Actually it is sad.
That's funny, you claim that I am off-topic when you are lost in your own conversation. Toasty was not complaining about teaching about world religions, instead Toasty was complaining about certain school boards teaching Intelligent Design.
Actually, it has always been you. You have not presented one civilized post; not a single post without insults. You cannot support your point because you do not understand what is happening all around you.
Even if that was what he was talking about, what school board is currently allowing Intelligent Design to be taught as a science? The Pennsylvania, Ohio and Kansas curriculum's have all been repudiated. If it's not being done, then no ones constitutional rights are being violated. He's still wrong. Oh...just to maintain the flavor of my earlier posts....you're an idiot.
This is just a perfect example of intellect being confused with straight up arrogant people who aren't even discussing the subject. I truly believe that this is why this county has fallen apart over the past decade. Religion/science is brought into a discussion where it is completely irrelevant. This is not the debate in China.
It is even more frustrating that such input is coming from a man (yes, you are that obvious) who basically shouldn't have the right to state what should take place inside a females womb--my opinion only and thank goodness I live in a country where opinion and stating such is a freedom. Will I go somewhere and hold a sign stating my personal beliefs on what a young single woman should do with her fetus--no, because I will not be the one taking care of the unwanted child and neither are you.
Simple solution--sex education with moral foundation (lessons of control) and easy access to contraceptives--can you have morals without this pathetic nonproductive argument of science and religion. Yes, but hopefully there won't be any fools like this to lead the coursework. Unwanted pregnancies should be avoided and if you are not educating your society, then shame on you. If you have the means to prevent abortions, utilize them or you could just go back and forth and argue about the big bang theory while 10,000 poor uneducated girls have to go through a completely unnecessary, emotional and damaging procedure.
Learn how to be a part of a result oriented solution instead of creating additional issues and problems with your arrogance. There is nothing wrong with a person having faith--whether it be scientific or out of the Bible. Where we all become wrong is when we don't find a common ground to fix a problem.
Where the hell is Mr. Rogers when you need him?
I believe that this is one of the things that Toasty was speaking of (Texas). As Toasty said, school boards are routinely voting to try to add religion (intelligent design) to schools. Fortunately they are continuously shot down.
The fact remains that they keep trying it, which appears to be what Toasty is saying.
I feel strange speaking on behalf of Toasty.
ceo. I think you would find more posts that agree with you and you would be far happier on townhall.com. Give it a try.
I feel bad for all the religiously indoctrinated people. It's like their minds have been raped by religion, and now they've developed Stockholm Syndrome. The smartest among them free their minds and cast off the shackles of religion.
So what's the answer.....are constitutional rights currently being denied...? Obviously by your response, the answer to that question is no, they are not currently being denied. Attempts have been made to incorporate ID into the curriculum, but they all have been eventually rejected...thus preserving the rights. So is Toasty right or wrong? Are "believers" violating the constitutional rights of others with regards to religion as he contends? No....his accusation is wrong....as his comments usually are. I understand why you feel strange speaking for Toasty....because his positions are indefensible.
quigley4me - I enjoy engaging the liberal mind......it's quite a challenge to try and explain facts, logic and common sense to a group of people that lack all three. But thanks for the suggestion, I will take a look at that web site.
If you rig the argument to suit what you want to complain about, rather than speak to what was written, then I guess you'll never be wrong.
But if you bothered to give effort to properly comprehending what was written you would know what was going on. You are wrong, plain and simple. You are also shifting the argument from what it is. Or perhaps you just cannot comprehend the written word very well.
The argument is that they have done, and continually try to unconstitutionally force religion upon aspects of American life. If you are surprised, shocked, or baffled by this then you don't pay attention.
I don't think there is any doubt that religion is part of the public forum. As much as you may chafe about that, it's always been so. The beauty of the system is that ideas (good and bad) can be openly discussed. Whether one is based on religious principles or any other principle, for that matter should be irrelevant. It's good public policy or it's not. The question revolves around whether anyone should be barred from the debate. No right thinking American (and most Supreme Court Justices) would agree that limiting free speech is a good idea.
ceo, I like to read both extremes, which is why I look at both at different times. You might also lighten up on the name calling such as idiot, stupid, moron. People aren't likely to put any stock into what you are saying when you resort to name calling. At that point you are just wasting keystrokes.
Our dear Lord and His mother must be crying about this. Our fate will come back to haunt us.
Our dear Lord's mother? Now that would be an article worth reading. Who might she be?
it's Mary jack ass. God's incarnate mother. put down the US Weekly magazine for a few minutes.
jeff, try that one again. mary was/is not God's mother, unless you are from the young boy exploiting Catholic cult. I thought they believed in the holy trinty of: Boy Scouts, Little league, and Hide the sausage games.
I thought Mary cheated on Joe with God to get the baby Jesus gig.
i am Catholic and you two will be the first people to say talk radio caused the lunatic in AZ to shoot those people.
That has been said minutes after it happened. Lefties blamed righties and righties blamed lefties.
I don't understand if the government wants each family to only have one child why don't they give comprehensive sex ed courses to all children and provide free birth control to all men and women so there are fewer unwanted pregnancies?
because they frown on premarital sex. they don't embrace all liberal ideas, just the one's that suit them.
Because for all of their supposedly far-left economic policies, on social issues the Chinese are INCREDIBLY conservative.
You can frown on premarital sex all you want but if you want to prevent people from having multiple children you need to provide them with birth control and the knowledge to use it correctly otherwise you will have the sad story of 10 million abortions a year. Which sounds better?
You assume that China's government views abortions as bad.
Well no I think China's stance on human rights and the rights of women and children are pretty clear. (they could care less if a woman or child survive)
It's not a child at that point, it's a fetus. It also cuts down on population growth. That's not bad for China.
I agree!
The government did want to give sex education to children, but they have to use the money to buy more Mercedes for themselves. And, furthermore, the Chinese condom manufacturers want the government support so that they can make more money to distribute to government officials. And this phenomenon is a great sales opportunities for Chinese contraceptive manufacturers overseas. "Our product works in miraculous ways. You may be surprised with the results.".
We really don't know too much more than we did a thousand years ago? Ah-hah-hah. We know the shape of the universe and can trace its origin back to 10 to the negative 43rd power seconds (the Planck epoch) of existence, evolution is an observed fact of nature, the periodic table--it goes on and on. I'm quite sure that science has already rendered God belief obsolete for those willing to observe the evidence and the fictitious nature of religious texts. Certainly, people in this country have an unalienable right to their individual beliefs, but current religions will very likely die out just as the old ones did (praise Zeus). Creation 6000 years ago? Talking snakes, immaculate birth, resurrection of the embalmed dead, seven headed dragons? Puh-leeze!
Seriously, next thing you know they'll be bringing up unicorns and fairies...
Do you believe in Love or just your tiny intellect?
Why on earth would you think someone can't believe in both?
Than if you believe in Love, you than should put your faith in it, whether you think it's God or not. Let Love guide your intellect.
They're two separate things, though. They both contribute, but it's not like a person has to choose between the two. I have to say, Antone, you're either trying to be overly poetic, or just plain weird.
exactly!! i have nothing against religion as long as it s kept where it belongs: IN THE CHURCHS!!!!!!!!
when the religious folk start bringing their faith into the public square, i say: ENOUGH! GET OUT OF MY FACE AND GO BACK IN YOUR CHURCHS AND LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great post!!!!!
To assume we are not more ignorant than knowledgeable is both arrogant and naive. The very reason we pursuit scientific discovery is we assume there is a vast amount of things not yet known. Taken together, what is unknown dwarfs what we knew a thousand years ago. That statement is still true today. As for religion belonging in the churches, think again. Church is only where faith is celebrated. Real believers make their faith part of their everyday lives.
Eric - and they try to force their religion on others. Forced it into the pledge of allegiance, forced it onto currency, trying to force it onto schoolchildren and people attending sports games, trying to force it into laws, ect ect ect.
Leave it as part of YOUR everyday life, and keep it the hell out of mine, thanks.
Michael, write your Representatives and give'em your what-for. And I will write mine. Whatever comes of it would be no threat to me, nor should it to you.
Here in the USA birth control should be 100% free to any one who reaches puberty. That is the only way to turn abortion into a rare event.
I'm not sure how much that would cost, but it certainly would help make the country a better place. Definitely would be a sound investment in the long run.
I don't know how much it would cost, but how much does it cost for us to provide welfare, food stamps, and medicaid to a poor unemployed young mother with 5 children living in the inner city?
That's pretty much what I meant by that. In the end, it's the price of condoms versus the price of welfare for 18 years. Easy choice in my book.
I have spent years around college students and I can tell you straight up that birth control is FREE already. The problem is many still do not like to use any contraception, or they are careless with their birth control. To be blunt, girls I would never have guessed do not think twice about bedding down with anybody. I swear. I really is sad.
the boys-
first, not all young people are in college, and not all colleges provide free or even affordable birth control- the California college I graduated from 2 years ago certainly didn't. And why I think it is sad when any young person that doesn't want children fails to use contraception, I don't see how it's particularly sad when they go "bedding down" with someone, particularly women. Contraception is expensive for most and has serious side effects for many with other non-hormonal options such as IUDs rarely discussed. Add slut-shaming comments like yours, it's no wonder that women are hesitant from becoming experts in birth-control.
Why don't we make conversation about contraception a shame free event that promotes young people to make smart decisions for themselves and their family's?
Birth control is not a guarantee against pregnancy. No contraceptive is.
Look it up. The number of women that end up pregnant while on birth control is amazing.
And no, abortion will not be a rare event, even if birth control becomes "free". Abortion is performed for many reasons, not just for unwanted pregnancy termination.
In its first hours, a newly fertilized egg is a microscopic organism, and no more "human" than an amoeba. The embryo develops through stages that resemble organisms that evolved long before we did. At one point the embryo has gill slits like a fish, at another it looks very much like a chicken embryo. Still later it has a tail, which it loses through cellular apoptosis well before birth. We don't think of killing a fish or a chicken as a sin, and there is simply no bright line where an embryo becomes a human being, as much as any of us might wish it were so.
It has been said that a Republican is one who believes that human rights begin at conception and end at birth. Perhaps we should focus more on the rights of humans, even those with whom we disagree? Only God recedes as science develops -- our humanity does not.
That's the thing. The "pro-lifers" criticize people for putting arbitrary time when a person is created, yet make their own arbitrary one at fertilization.
The point of fertilization is hardly an arbitrary point. It's one of the two most definitive moments in life, the other being death.
Here is what I think is extremely hypocritical. If a woman is happy with the pregnancy, she will refer to that fetus as "her baby". Everybody is thrilled for her and each day of the pregnancy is a big deal and a much anticipated event. If the woman doesn't want a baby, she will refer to this fetus as only a group of cells not really having any feelings yet and really just plain nothing. So nothing flushing down the toilet is acceptable. Same baby, different perspective.
Death is defined by the cessation of brain activity. Life could then be defined as the moment it starts. Gametes exhibit some characteristics found in life, why not define it before fertilization? And even after fertilization, the zygote doesn't begin to establish many characteristics of life for some time. The fact is that these definitions are just as reasonable, and we choose which one we believe not based on scientific facts, but our innate political leanings.
Toasty, how you determine when life begins is not necessarily the same as how you determine when it ends. They are two completely different processes. Also, after fertilization the human organism begins a life process of growth and development. That is what makes it different from a gamete, and you know it. And I also believe you know very well that a zygote is growing, differentiating, and developing at an extremely rapid rate. If that isn't a characteristic of life, I don't know what is. And no, those arguments are not reasonable. In fact, the gamete thing was just plain stupid. They are warped reasoning to support the abortion agenda, and you know that very well too.
It's A characteristic, yes, but the gamete doesn't yet show ALL of them. Sperm display A characteristic as well, but clearly don't show all either. But that's not really the main thing I wanted to express. My point is that it's not easy to define when life begins, and your insistence on a certain moment is merely more viable than some, less viable than others.
The article said that the age of marriage in China is 20, and that keeps the teen pregnancy rate low. Maybe we should practice that in the U.S. - no marriages 'til 20 years old. Maybe the divorce rate would not be 50% then. Also, I like that China puts no social stigma on abortion, but DOES put a social stigma on having a baby as an unwed mother. In some U.S. cultures it has become a joke to actually be married before having a kid (think African American-not being racist, just stating the obvious). I think it would help the U.S. tremendously to change the age of marriage to 20.
It is sad that so many babies are lost to abortion, but the world's population is already too big to sustain current human numbers. It is a necessary evil; no one loves abortion.
According to studies of young adults, the brain does not develop fully until age 25, when a person can predict consequences and control themselves.
With that insight, perhaps adults should not be allowed to marry until age 25 because they haven't fully developed higher brain functions.
I'd settle for not allowing them to have sex until 25...
My concern is far more for the children who are already here. There are so many for whom, once they are born, noone gives a damn anymore. Lets feed, shelter, clothe and educate the children who are already here.
And if we want to reduce abortions, here or elsewhere, and reduce unwanted pregnancies, the only proven ways to do that are sex ed programs in the schools (beginning in elementary/middle school) and safe, confidential access to health care and contraception.
Darwin. You too have opinions that could be left to yourself. Don't get all up in Veronica's face. Some of us believe in God and Science. The two can coexist. Now wouldn't that be an awesome world if we could all coexist? Just FYI my beliefs....since I'm entitled to express myself.... is that killing any life, human or unborn, or animal, critter etc is wrong.