Government Rule number #4: Screw the disadvantaged first.

They have enough money to put on a political three ring circus (immigration, gun control and Obamacare). But when it comes to helping kids get vaccines... Whoops! Outta money!

Let's see how the state fairs after an outbreak of whooping cough and measles.

@chris -

If you're getting at illegal aliens, who gives a crap? The money is tight, and the time has come to fish or cut bait. Now is the time for determining citizenship.

It's either illegals or American citizens.

This is a tough call. Medicare is in trouble also. Government released numbers state that those on Medicare take $3 out for every $1 they pay into the system. The problem is a deeper than just cutting people from the state supported expenses.

And must, as always, ask WHY are there bloggers on these pages that continue to call names to one side of the aisle or the other. Shows an individual stuck on a bias and will never be able to actually help with a solution.

Occam: The fact is that we're paying for abusing Medicare and medicaid over the past 30 years. Ever since the 1990s, we've been cutting taxes that feed Medicaid and Medicare. Now we have an aging population and a sudden subtraction of wealth, that has left more people on Medicaid and Medicare than the system can handle, in a addition to a sudden loss of what little income taxes are still coming in.

When you subtract from that the extension of the Bush tax cuts, two wars, and an endless supply of bailouts for car companies and investment firms, it's easy to see that illegal immigrants are the least of our problems right now.

jwhite.

agree.

Though, I am not sure about the Bush "tax cuts" view. From my view, taxes were lowered to a more acceptable level for a large majority of Americans. During these past couple years, expenses were added to programs such as the new Health Care Bill, that depended on the tax levels being rolled back up. When that did not happen, the noise about "tax cuts hurting everyone" was not a fair statement. Money was spent assuming there would be greater taxes. Sort of one group spending the money and another group stating we are not paying the money. What an unbelievable political system we have.

When you look a little closer at what those tax cuts were for, the vast majority of those cuts were completely superfluous. The only people who benefitted from the extension of those cuts were investment banks because they cut taxes on specific types of trade. The whole tax cut controversy was a charade.

Brewer, Republicans and the Tea Party will not be happy until everyone that is sick or dying and can't afford medical care on there own is DEAD! They are doing whatever it takes to kill off those people while sitting fat and happy with their own PUBLIC FINANCED health insurance that covers THEM and their families.

They feel like sick, poor people are not worth living and no one will notice them if they crawl off and die if they are too sick to afford care. Hey it will save the state and the rich people some extra money that can be used on special, unneeded pork projects that help their wealthy friends.

Disgusting they all are. So much for Christian Moral Values of helping the poor and sick. They tossed those values out while giving lip service to what the Bible tells them to do all in the pursuit of the all mighty dollar.

Chris --

"I would love to see the list of who would be removed, who is on that list. Bet there's an easily identifiable demographic."

I bet your right, Chris. Probably the poor, blind and disabled in that group. Isn't that the "demographic" that the plan was designed to cover? Or do you think that there are no poor, disabled white people in AZ (if that was where you were going)?

Sandy- unfortunatley it's the people who are taking advantage of every social program out there that are to blame. They are the one's taking away from those who truely need the help. The bible also says that if you are able to work you should and that you are suppossed to be financially responsible. The bible I read does not tell me to support every Tom, Dick, and Harry. But hey, if you want to go right ahead.

What a surprise. After scaring the hell out of people with talk about Death Panels, they finally reveal themselves as the Death Panel.

No to Health Care reform that extends insurance to nearly all Americans and lowers the budget deficit while doing so, but yes to eliminating medical coverage to 300,000 who have it now. No to a flat tax for social security and medicare (the poor people and middle class pay a higher percentage of their income in FICA taxes than the upper middle classs and wealthy do), but yes to a $700 billion giveaway to the wealthy.

Chris is right. Before becoming governor, Jan Brewer used her position as secretary of state to remove 100,000 Latinos from Arizona voter rolls, hinting that they were not citizens. She didn't prosecute a single one, turn over a single name to the state attorney general or US Department of Justice, even though she had 100,000 names and addresses, because they were all citizens.

That's how the pros play voter fraud. You cancel people's registrations, and by the time they show up to vote, it's to late for them to do anything about it, the poor saps.

RMil, tell that to the 90+ people just waiting to DIE and the two that have because of Brewer and the Republicans. I bet you don't have insurance that would actually cover a transplant enough to prevent you from going bankrupt. Better hope you never need one and can't afford it in Arizona as it's a virtual Death Sentence now.

this is beyond sad. how can they do this to people who are truly in need? I don't know how some of these people like the governor live with themselves. and please don't tell me she has the courage to take the hard steps. that's a crock. man, when I read one of the people waiting for a transplant has already died because of the changes in coverage making them unable to get what they need my stomach dropped. the awful thing is stress does affect physical health. and the people who are already ill do not need to live with the added stress and fear that they may be cut off. for Christ's sake something has got to change here. I'm not sure what the answer is but I don't think killing off those in our society with the greatest need is the answer. ironically, we just had those horrific killings in Arizona at the hands of a mentally unstable individual. I would think things like this proposal could surely send someone already unstable over the edge. what a mess........

DieHard it's because Republicans have refined the "ME, ME, ME" attitude to such high levels.

They are like someone who sees a person bleeding on the ground after being assaulted and they keep on walking not wanting to give the person any aid because it cuts into what they planned to do that day.

Really, the other 90% are waiting to die?? And you're right, I don't have insurance that will cover a transplant but I also don't expect you or anyone else to pay for it. There are abuses out there and they need to be stopped. Again, I ask you....which of these poor and dieing people are you personally supporting? And really, Republicans would walk right by a bleeding person???? Quite an extreme comment, don't you think?

And that's the problem. Why is it a Republican or Democrat thing. Why do we have to beat parties up? It seems that common sense should be that when you don't have any money, you can't spend it. It's that simple. The bank won't let you keep writing checks when you have no money there, so how can our gov't keep writing checks -

I wonder how those 300,000 will vote in the next state election? And don't say their all illegals - because you would be speaking out of the wrong end there.

Are Arizona state employees going to take a cut in their health coverage???

Funny how the GOP is dismissing the CBO's assessment that the health care reform will save $230 billion over the next 10 years. They didn't feel so negative about the CBO's assessments under the SAME DIRECTOR 2 years ago:

Senator John Coryn:

"God Bless Dr. Elmendorf For His Integrity And Commitment To Tell The Truth.""I believe the professionals at the Congressional Budget Office are doing a very difficult but unpopular work. They are speaking the truth to power here in Washington and making the folks who would pass these enormous unfunded bills that impose this huge debt on generations hereafter somewhat unhappy. But I think they are doing an important service by telling us the facts. Last week I commended the Director of the CBO, Dr. Doug Elmendorf, for saying that CBO will 'never adjust our views to make people happy.' God bless Dr. Elmendorf for his integrity and commitment to telling the truth. We need to learn how to deal with the truth, not try to remake it or cover it up."[Congressional Record, 6/22/09]

But I forgot - we're not supposed to point out hypocrisy like this because that's "beating their party up".

screminmimi ... um, I think that is what Chris meant. Is that it will target illegals ... I took that to mean he thinks it is fair ... if that's true.

First we get all the damned illegals off our roles then forbid them from abusing our emergency rooms any more. They stop getting food stamps and welfare.

Who exactly has she killed?

The two people who had transplants approved until Brewer signed off on yanking the funding for them.

She then bawled if people were upset, then Washington should bail AZ out. because heaven forbid a Republican governor ever go back on a promise to cut taxes.

I don't know about you, but I am not willing to pay even more taxes than I do right now so other people can collect from every social program out there. I work, I pay taxes, I pay for my own healthcare. Not all, but some could change their priorities and start paying thier own way. And yeah, it does suck that there are people who are taking advantage of the system- those are the ones who are to blame!

I work in a VA Hospital and see people who have gotten transplants, recover and continue the behavior that killed the original organ, because, as a vet, they know they will get another transplant if needed. This kind of thing has to stop. People abuse the system, yes, including the illegal aliens, to the detriment of American Citizens. The Medicaid system needs to be completely overhauled and the abuse must be stopped.

We can not afford all these entitlement programs. I can't pay more taxes, and everybody who gets on disability isn't disabled, medicaid was set up for a purpose and it has gotten out of hand. At least this governor is getting what needs to be done - done. All the states are going broke and so are the feds so fish fish or cut bait, or as I like to say sh!t or get off the pot!

If you really look at life-or-death organ transplants as "entitlement," nothing I say will ever convince you of anything. You're already so brainwashed that nothing will ever change your mind.

NO - but I watched all sorts of stuff with my father. They should have stopped trying and let us enjoy his last years. Just because they can do a transplant doesn't mean they should. That's not a death panel, that's just life - and death.

Suppose (hypothetically) that no more entitlement programs exist. O.K. That does not mean that facilities and doctors are no longer around. So who will the doctors and facilities be treating? Well, primarily the wealthy. Is it right that only the wealthy have access to health care?

This is the problem with cutting off any social program. It does save money. But for who? Please figure out who before you volunteer to pay taxes to only an elite group of people, some of whom may not deserve it at all.

Only one of the two patients died as a result from this change, read to the bottom. And this is not the change I voted for, they got health care wrong. They need to reign in costs from Hospitals, Phamacutical companies, and give good affordable health coverage. Arizona lost 33% of it's income, and a 1.1 billion deficit. And everybody wants everything to stay the same or better. Do the math, it's not there so every state and city govt is making decisions. Roads or Healthcare, they can't afford either - They are broke!!! You can't spend what you don't have.

Yeah, two people with an additional 96 still in limbo. Nevermind the fact that the AZ. governor pulled the funding on bad information about transplants(they were ineffective, a laugh especially since a member of state congress is a transplant recipient), and she has mandated that any bill that would allow the funding to be restored to not be heard.

Don't you think that not all of the ones waiting are viable? When do we accept our fate? I have worked in Hospice. We used to die with dignity but now we suffer in bed, wetting ourselves and waiting to be cleaned by a stranger. Yeah that's how I want to go.

You know, many people on state Medi-insert state name-rolls were once healthy and productive individuals who worked and most likely had employer-sponsored benefits.

Then they got sick. Really sick. And were unable to work, maybe because of a failing heart or liver. A transplant would have fixed some of them. Then AZ yanked the transplant coverage from their program. These people were depending on that to get them back on their feet again. To work again. People died.

See, what many don't realize is that a majority of people on the Medi-rolls are people who were once able to work and make a living. The majority are not mooches. Catastrophe struck. Catastrophe is not always the fault of the person. Severe heart disease and severe liver disease happen to people who live healthy lives, who do everything "right". Sometimes victims of those diseases need transplants.

What is happening in Arizona is a perfect example of a death panel.

Arizona lost 33% of it's income, and a 1.1 billion deficit.

Arizona is losing income and going into debt because it persecutes people who work hard and pay taxes. Brewer and company needed scapegoats and they shot themselves in the foot. They wanted a law that makes it a crime to have brown skin so that the Corrections Corporation of America could build maintain, staff, and operate special prisons to hold people while they tried to prove themselves innocent from behind bars.

I have sympathy for the good people of Arizona, but not for Brewer or her friends like Pearce, J. T. Ready, and CCA.

Yes, 96 people in AZ are in limbo waiting for a transplant. The reality of those transplants involve another number of people dying in order for these 96 to receive a transplant. If all of them are waiting for a liver, than that number must die in order for those on the list to receive a liver. And it is preferable that those donors are in the prime of their lives for optimal healthy organs. An elderly, diseased individual with multi-organ failure is not an acceptable donor. This is the reality of an organ transplant.

And for your information, I worked in health-care for over 50 years and have to agree that they system is being abused totally. And we wonder why health care costs have gone ballistic.

mellowing:

You claim to have worked in health-care for over 50 years, and yet claim that someone has to die in order for a person to get a liver transplant?

You do know that the liver is the one organ in the human body that can regenerate after being cut up? That LIVING DONOR liver transplants have surpassed cadaver liver transplants in this country?

Thought not...

That's if you have a match, that's if your health is good enough to get the transplant, and that should be if you have changed your life style to have the best chance possible to keep a new liver. And no - I don't think that over 72 you should get a transplant.

Your right, someone(in most cases) must die for the transplant, at least one of those cases did involve a liver transplant, where a friend of the family who was a compatible donor, donate a lobe of his liver for said transplant, however due to the funding being pulled, they transplanted that lobe into someone else. Now the fact that it was transplanted itself into someone else is not what the issue is, its why it had to be in the first place. And if you were in health care, you would know that a liver, lung or kidney transplant does not necessarily require someone to die to begin with, and yes there are abuses, but how many more people, do you think, are in the system that genuinly need the help? Nevermind the fact that medicare/medicade abuses are not entirely the cause of the high health care costs, as you also have to factor in drug costs, equipment costs, and ER visit non-payments into the matter as well.

Yes, I know a kidney, part of a liver or a singular lobe may be taken from a live donor. And there are complications that those live donors can suffer and we don't hear about them. But as for a single lung, double lung or lung-heart, pancreas et al transplant, these are all taken from a donor pronounced brain-dead. And yes, one brain-dead donor can be a source for several organ transplants hinging upon compatibility. The problem with a list, there are a number of people all awaiting the same organ ie heart, pancreas, lung etc. and in most cases they must wait for someone to die in order for them to continue living. It so much easier to talk about donors giving part of an organ or a kidney when we can say it comes from a living donor. But the reality is that most of your organs for transplant must come from a brain-dead donor and that fact people don't want to dwell on. And I agree with been-there, people over 72 years of age should not be given a transplant.

Also, concerning the cost of health care: most of your health care dollars go into paying the nic costs for the first year of life (million dollar preemies) and the last two years of life (prolonging the dying process). We will have to grapple with those issues sooner or later, if we want to be able to control the out of control costs of health care in our country.

Been There - I am sorry for the loss and extended illness of your parent but I have never know someone to be forced to have a transplant against their will. Also with the scarcity of organs priority is given to those with the best chance of survival and of course the best match to the organ. As a side note I know of very few private insurance policies that can cover the cost of transplant as well as the ongoing need for anti-rejection meds. Any organ transplant would bankrupt the average middle class person. But hey only the wealthy should survive. Darwinism at its best.

There actually was a story in the last year about a young guy who died after he donated part of his liver to his brother. The recipient is doing ok, but the donor died. I wish I could remember the exact story, but sometimes I have a terrible memory.

I believe the donor was in good health prior; just goes to show you never know.

I am in health care also and see this every single day. The problem is everyone says oh well this is the way it is.............. Apathy is ruining the United States.

I am in health care too. And for others that think that paving roads should even be on par with the health of our fathers, mothers, and children -- I fear for the future of health care in this country.

Although it would be pollyannish to think that no one abused the system, I wonder what percentage of the budget for Medicaid goes to abusers, and how they could be responsible for the collapse of the entire system.

Problem, yes -- but perhaps we could have some reliable estimate of this abuse before we make choices about continuing care to members of our own society (you know, your fellow gun totin, god fearin, gay hatin Amuricin"s).

What about all the druggies getting drugs paid for on medicaid because they are in "pain" and then selling the drugs to drug dealers, which are then re-sold to school children.....and we, the public, are paying for this.

Jeez, now I know how it can be abused! I thought doing something like pawning a medicaid scooter would be illegal!!! We need to stop all Medicaid NOW.. revamp the system, and then slowly add people to the list of "insured". Otherwise this problem will persist to the bitter end.

Part of the problem is how Medicare takes care of abuse. I reported a Dr once to Medicare. She was charging for office visits when I called in for a prescription! Medicare then proceeded to notify her that I had reported her (without investigating) and I got a really nasty call from that Dr. A couple of months later I got my quarterly Medicare form (outlining recent payouts) and there was a charge for an office visit! Of course, I was no longer going to this Dr when this new charge was filed (with a date past when I stopped going there). So, she just waited till it all died down and then recharged Medicare for the false charge that started the whole thing. I think she was probably doing this to a lot of people for years. I just happened to be someone who checks my Medicare statements.

BTW, initially, I did try to resolve the incorrect charges by calling the Dr's office several times, but was told that they charge if you call for a prescription to be authorized to a pharmacy. Then I called Medicare.

The way Medicare handled this was a joke. Money just being thrown away.

And for every story you can come up with of a "medicaid cheat" there are literally hundreds of deserving people who can't get the medical care they need.

Just because a very small minority abuse it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a system in place to get care to people who need it. It's like saying some people shoplift so we shouldn't have grocery stores.

September 17, 2009

(Reuters) - Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

RealAmericansFirst ... um, why all the hype about health care? Those people on Medicaid are going to be without living assistance (no roof) or food assistance. Ask any of the recipients if they had to go without food, housing or health coverage which would they chose first, second and last. BTW I am actually a proponent of government doing whatever cost cutting measures are necessary to balance their budgets .. so I am in support of Medicaid cuts (even though I own a Medicaid agency and am nearly broke because of State cuts).

Real Americans"wondering" Please show us the real facts in this quote from Harvard. If you think you will recognize the insanity. How can anyone measure something like this? Also think-no on is denied medical treatment in this country, so why do people die-Maybe it's their time, can you tell us how to stop that?

The real fact I want is why do we in Arizona have to ask federal who we cover? Its our state money, why does federal tell us how we spend, absurd. If federal makes rules they pay the bills. It's time to get federal agencies out ,of the states, not just health care, education everything. When federal wants laws and regulations they pay. Now we say well state won't get money from federal, why does federal have the money, states should be keeping money and taking care of their citizens. Anytime money goes from residents to federal and back to state you kinow we get screwed and billions lost. Let's get things right.

I wonder how many of those 300,000 are actually capable of paying their own healthcare???

Probably none. Unemployment in Arizona stands at 9.4%. It's population is 6,595,778 meaning that at least 620,003 are out of work. Underemployed people who are likely unable to afford health care and don't work at jobs that offer healthcare is at 19%. Meaning an additional 1,253,198 who would need Medicaid for themselves and their children.

But with the economy - where does this money come from? Less people are paying taxes, more are on welfare, medicaid, unemployement for 3 years. How can we keep coming up with this money? We have to face it we are all broke.

How many illegals are taking up jobs that unemployed citizens could fill? Government needs to charge employers who hire illegals and deport the illegals and their anchor babies. And I don't just mean illegals from Mexico, I mean the ones from Europe and whereever else too!

1) Step one: Halt inflation by reining in the Fed. Inflation is going to kill us. Flooding the market with money like they've been doing is going to be a bullet to the heart of any future we have left.

2) Step two: End the wars in Iraq and Afganistan and invest in real Homeland Security.

3) Let the banks adapt or fail. America does not need Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan Chase in order to function. Just like it didn't need Bear Sterns or Lehman Brothers.

4) Make good use of the natural wealth we have. The United States is sitting on a gold mine of resources (literally) but are not using them effectively.

5) Cut taxes on the low-middle income people who actually spend money and raise taxes for the high income brackets of 500k and up. High income people are far more likely to invest in the Yuan than in the dollar. Sad but true. Send money where it will be used to improve the economy.

Maybe we should stop giving every illegal immigrant healthcare and then there would be money for those who truely need it. I work in healthcare and see it every day. I also see people who are on AHCCCS with their gold jewelry, their Coach purses, playing on their state-of-the-art cell phones. I do not believe that all who are "taking" from our state are truely "in need"...mor like "in want"

Oh yeah - if you could be king for the day. I would love to do any of those things you mention. But it won't happen till the we keep throwing out one politician after another tilll they listen. I don't care what party I vote for, they all suck. I vote for the person. But face it we have to change, but it won't happen over night.

But it could happen overnight. I'm no king, and if I could come up with that off the top of my head, we can expect a Harvard Grad to be able. It's not that they can't change, it's that they don't want to.

The ones bankrolling successful candidates get the legislation and policies that are in their favor. The reason that the US citizen gets screwed is that as citizens we actually contribute very little to successful candidates. Who contributes the most? Well, their last names are LLC, CORP and INC.

You want to stop the problems of not having money? Go back to either the 1960's tax rate for the WEALTHY which was at around 60% of their income. Or better yet go to the 1950's tax rate for the wealthy which was at 80%. Here is the kicker the 1950's were a boom time with people buying their own houses and there was prosperity. Having those high tax rates did nothing to halt the growth of jobs or the economy back then and it won't stop it now.

The wealthy have been getting one hell of a free ride for a long, long time. It's about time that ended. It's a HUGE Republican LIE that raising taxes on the rich will reduce job growth. That is about as ludicrous as you can get. Just look at the last 8 years with the Bush Tax cuts. Bush had the lowest job growth of almost ANY modern President. His tax cuts did absolutely NOTHING to generate job growth.

We had better job growth and more money under Bill Clinton when taxes were higher.

I agree with you. I wish when I send in my tax form this spring I could check what I want done with my hard earned dollars to pay for. Like education, child healthcare, Clean Water, and more affordabel mass transit so people can get to work. While I am at it, I would like to vote on which senator gets a raise and make sure they all have my health insurance coverage. They should not be exempt or have better healthcare than I do.

Well yeah, cause you know, according to the SCOTUS, they are individual citizens also. We seriously need to get the money out of D.C., this is nothing more than political machines for the 21st century. Where is Mr. Smith when you need him?

BTW, when you raise taxes on the Rich you help generate jobs. It's really quite simple. They end up creating more jobs so they can make more money from the work those extra workers have done. This way they can make more money to get to where they are now. More workers making more stuff for you the more money you rake in as a wealthy person. Right now there is absolutely ZERO incentive for any wealthy person to create a job. They don't get taxed much higher than a middle class wage earner. So why create any jobs when they are already raking in the cash at obscene levels.

jwhite,

"High income people are far more likely to invest in the Yuan than in the dollar. Sad but true."

What a sensible comment, and one that I'm embarrassed to say did not occur to me.

In light of the export of American jobs overseas for increased profit by this ostensibly same group, one begins to realize that these folks will put their greed above the welfare of their own countrymen. But, at the same time most people employ maximizing strategies, don't they?

Walks: I have nothing against investing in foreign country and currencies. I think the US can benefit greatly from the success of others. My only problem is that the low taxes on these exchanges means that the high income bracket is investing in foreign countries at the expense of US taxpayers. By all means, profit in international currency, but give the US a healthy kickback.

What good does it do to offer "health care" to people who won't lift a finger to benefit their own health? Why can't the people who are too poor to pay for their own health care actually do something, which will cost them nothing, to benefit their own health? -- e.g. walk instead of sit, pick up a toothbrush, quit the soda pop, stop eating grease and lard and abusing alcohol and drugs, etc. Why do we have a tobacco industry in America? To addict millions of ignorant teenagers and ultimately to kill 400,000 Americans a year?

High income people are far more likely to invest in the Yuan than in the dollar.

When the value of the dollar increases, it has negative impact on our economy. People stop buying our exports and our trade balance goes south, for example. But in any case, the foreign exchange market is so huge that even all the "high income people" trading in concert would have no lasting impact. The Central Bank of Japan routinely tries to move the market in order to cheapen the Yen, (yes, cheapen), and despite telling traders what they are going to do so that everyone can jump on board with them, the effect is short-term.

Interest rates are the main reason money flows into a particular currency. Do you want the Central Bank to raise the interest rate?

As for the "low taxes" on these exchanges, a high percentage of currency investments are short-term trades, which means the taxes on them are exorbitant.
.

FOREX trading is definitely not the problem.

Interest rates are the main reason money flows into a particular currency. Do you want the Central Bank to raise the interest rate?

The Central Bank's lowering the interest rate did nothing but allow investment banks to enrich themselves at the expense of the US taxpayer this is precisely what I was referring to when I said "rein in the Fed". You may not see the connection between the Fed's bond buying programs, the low interest rate and $4 gasoline but I do. My two ideas were about inflation and taxes, not about making it easier for the already rich to get richer, which has been the Fed's strategy by focusing on the Stock Market, instead of the economy.

My "Invest in the Yuan" comment was referring directly to big business's vested interest in China instead of the US. The government cannot create jobs, only businesses can. But paying people in Yuan and investing in China is what businesses have been doing far too much. Low taxes (and yes low interest rates) encourage people to look overseas in their business expansion.

This should be discouraged.

Actually, the top tax rate in the 1950's was 91% (except for 1952 and 1953, when it was 92%). Those rates applied to income over $400k, which is about $3.5 million today.

And those 300,000 people who make over $250k a year taxable in this country were squealing like stuck pigs over having to pay 39.6% instead of 35% in the tax debate? Pathetic!

And in the 1950's, what was the birth rate for unwed mothers? Statistics show that child born to married parents are less likely to be in poverty and need social services. How do you suggest we, as a country, deal with the explosion of single mothers (many of whom use Medicaid to pay for the pregnancy/delivery) How do we get these women (and men) to stop adding to the problems and bankrupting the nation? Taxing the rich does not stop the problems.

Please show us why these supposed transplant victims are entitled. Have they paid into Arizona's system, are they residents entitled to state care? The state of Arizona is responsible for their residents ONLY, not everyone the federal government wants to stick on the roles. I don't believe the state of Arizona should pay for all the underage drifters and illegals showing up in our ER's because we're convenient Let's use common sense. Why do we keep paying for these incompetent dogs making babies that we know we'll take care of for the rest of their lives. No I don't believe in abortion, that's MURDER, if teen agers can't control they need sterilization. Then what does government do pay them for every baby they can produce, nothing for training just produce and pay them every year, that's wrong and asinine.

Nice! *clicks arrow*

Wonder why the Teabagging Republicans aren't crying foul about these actual Death Panels

Because they dont actually care about the issues they whine about, they only look for things to attack Democrats over. Brewer can run death panels all day as long as she is a Republican as far as they are concerned.

This isn't exactly a death panel, bad things are going to happen as we go more broke by the minute as a Country.

No, BT, this is a real death panel. They looked at the money, compared the costs, and decided that at least two people were too expensive to live. Russel Pearce and Jan Brewer have made a REAL death panel, there's no getting around it.

But we have to accept death, and quality of life. We don't know if these two cases were viable options, just because we can doesn't mean we should. I know I have watched miracles and death, we have to accept some things are just fate.

BT is right in that we don't know if these two cases were viable options and death is a part of the natural order of things. Doesn't change the fact that many prominent Republicans levelled a totally unsubstantiated charge that the Democrats want to create govt. "death panels" to make life/death decisions based on costs of treatment. That sounds pretty much like exactly what is happening in Arizona under their Republican administration. If the Republicans agree that death is the natural order of things, as you say, then they should have kept their mouth shut about some ficitional death panels as part of HCR. By willfully choosing to make false accusations they've opened themselves to this criticism.

And some things are just politics. I live in AZ, I didn't vote for Brewer. She cut the funding for these people to get the waiver so she could cut the state deficit without rasing taxes.

It is true that a republican from another state went through AZ budget and found 26 ways to restore that funding, but if they restore that funding, they can't get the money for the waiver. Which means they will have to do their jobs and balance that budget either by cutting it or rasing taxes.

Two citizens of our great state lost their lives so elected politicians could avoid doing the jobs they were elected to do.

Meanwhile she spoke at the memorial, for the Tucson victims while creating victims of her own. How sad is that?

Been There only a completely UNFEELING person without an ounce of COMPASSION would say the things you have been saying.

As Jesus said, we are supposed to help the poor and the sick if we have more than they do. Even take the shirt off your back to give to a man has none.

But in the US the Republicans just give lip service to what Jesus preached. Actions speak louder than words and the Republican actions are along the lines of the Money Lenders that Jesus threw out of the temple.

Well I am a completely wonderful person. I unfortunately have taken care of more than one dieing person. And I watched as they talked my dad into one thing after another, but he just lost all the quality time he could have spent with his family on procedures. Never got better. This is what I mean by we have to realize we will die, we have to let go. I am not a big religion fan but I do believe there is a better place with him when I go.

So you're walking around without a shirt? How many poor people are you personally supporting? Just want to get the facts straight.

I have probably helped far more than you have ever done in your life. At least I can say I have helped people.

I have raised 8 kids - 4 of my own, 4 step, countless foster kids - 5 that did not get adopted are still my kids. Yes I have them all work in soup kitchens and such. But you have to understand, I lived in a Womens Shelter for 6 months before I could get on my feet. So when I say I have Been There - I truly have.

I have helped plenty Sandy, however, there is plenty wrong with our healthcare system at the state and federal level and the abuse needs to stop. We cannot keep spending what we don't have.

There will always be some sort of cost/benefit associated with determining if a treatment will be worth it. Even in England's socialist medicine system, treatments are rated based on the quality years of life they will provide. If a treatment is too costly based on the expected results, it will be denied. There is not an endless pool of money that can pay for every single treatment a person may want, even if it would extend their life by a few weeks.

Good point, Cameron Ford. This article sounds as if Arizona is paying out more per patient than most other states. If that's the case, then maybe across the board reductions in the limits the state's program pays out really are necessary.

I see a lot of comments about 'non-residents'.......what about the millions (maybe an exageration, but I doubt it) of American citizens who are cheating the system(s). Weather it's Medicare, Medicaid or SSI, plenty of recipients are fully capable of working. That pisses me off more than 'foreign' recipients.

To all of you who talk about if the two deaths were viable transplant options. Where were you when Congress stayed in session to interfere in the end of life decisions regard Terry Schivo? From the Republican President on down through the party ran the drumbeat of "all life is sacrite" The government harassed a grieving husband who had previously proved to more then one court that it was his wife wish not to be maintained on life support. Please get off your sanctimonious asses. Maintain the same righteous standards and defend every life that could be saved.

Cameron Ford

Wonder why the Teabagging Republicans aren't crying foul about these actual Death Panels.

Because it wasn't on their talking points sheet?

What Death Panels. ... where are you reading this? What are you talking about? I know what Death Panels are ... but, what are you talking here related to this article. A state waiver from Medicaid so they can determine those in need of Medicaid ... not health care coverage - these are two different things. Unlike in Great Brittain where panels determine who gets and doesnt get treatment based on factors includings treatment outcome, age, cost, etc. based on a predetermined and limited resources budget.

They should not get any care and be sent back across the border. Or, on the other hand, they could apply for US Citizenship, get a job, pay taxes and contribute just like the rest of us do.

Many of them DO get jobs (the kind that you wouldn't do yourself), pay (sales) taxes, and contribute to their community. I don't know who you define as "the rest of us", but I know plenty of citizens who don't do any of that. And there are citizens who have good paying jobs, but evade taxes. Wesley Snipes comes to mind. Hope he enjoys his 3 years in prison.

Every state has illegals. Jan Brewer would like you to think hers is the only state dealing with the "crisis". Brewer wants to off-load poor people who may or may not work but aren't offered health insurance. I think her final plan is to ban everyone from AZ who doesn't pay what she thinks is their share of taxes. What might be a better plan is to raise state taxes. Then she could afford a lot of things, expecially those private jails she has her fingers and finances in, those jails that she thinks will bring in lots of federal tax money to pay for all the locked up illegals. Your and my federal tax money. And we don't even live in AZ. Jan Brewer doesn't want to take care of her own. Isn't that the republican stance, so what kind of republican is she? Smaller federal govt, but bigger state government. Don't be fooled. When they talk about limited federal govt, they MEAN bigger state govt, easier to oust those undesireables from THEIR states.

Brewer's all for people in Arizona not paying taxes, but she has no qualms whatsoever about taking money from taxpayers across the U.S.

Arizona gets back $1.30 from the federal government per dollar of federal taxes paid:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr139.pdf

Do you like supporting Arizona so they can keep their taxes low and kick poor people off medical care? Me neither.

I so agree with you,also it would save alot of money if Medicaid receipents did not use the emergency room as their primary care providers..

I don't deal in sin and blessing but it certainly is a privelage to be able to help those in need and extremely immoral to take advantage of the system or practice defrauding it. so though I choose different words I agree!

Well said working woman!!!

What good does it do to drain your cash cow dry while supporting those who do nothing to contribute to the over all health of the "cash cow"? Yes, yes - I know, the illegals do jobs Americans wont - BS of the highest degree! For everyone that may contribute using false and stolen ID and SS numbers there are 5 more hauling the freebies hand over fist. Enough is enough,.....yes it's sad but we have got to start SOMERWHERE!

I can tell you that out of the hundred or so I work with at least 10-12 times a week people call off work (they only work 20 hrs a week so they don't get cut off welfare) not for emergency for sore throat, cold, headache,cramps- they go and take there children straight to the ER. I ask they don't try anything like tylenol first or go to a Doctor it is straight to the ER. If I go to the ER and don't get admitted, my insurance makes me pay the bill. Everyone should pay something for Medical. A sliding fee scale needs to come back.....

We can't provide health care they can not get free in Mexico. It seems strange that people go to Mexico for Dental work and medicine but they come here for free health care. Nobody has it right, but we are broke trying to care for those who are not citizens of this country. It has to stop somewhere to have change take effect.

People go to the ER because they can't go to the doctor's office. The doctors will not see them without insurance. They can not pay $200+ just for the visit. The ER is their only choice.

For those that want everyone to pay something for medical care, that means that those who can't pay don't get medical care. How heartless you all are.

AZ isn't going broke, the cheapskate taxpayers simply do not want to raise taxes. Better to have thousands die from lack of medical care than to pay one dollar more in taxes. Teabagers forever!

Right, Brewer doesn't want to raise taxes as that would be not be republican. Remember it is the democrats who have the compassion for the health of the poor and children with only one parent. There really is no hiding it anymore. What about having low cost primary care for those who need it. Why is it everything is getting taken care of in the ER? (Possibly because the ER knows it can bill the state or federal govt) How about a primary care or urgent care office in the ER, one that is open when people can come in like 7 am to 11 pm. Everyone would pay a copay, say $10-$20, and it could be on a walk in basis. That would cut the ER visits. (But now really, do you think the ER's really want cuts to their lucrative source)

Great link for those who like to see the problem in graphics:

Health Care Costs per Capita

Not only do we pay the HIGHEST PER CAPITA health care costs in the world (mainly due to providing so much care in emergency rooms), we're falling behind nations that provide universal health care at a lower cost:

CDC report: US life expectancy drops for first time in 25 years

Life expectancy in the U.S. decreased from 2007 to 2008, according to a report released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control. Life expectancy in the U.S. increased dramatically from 1960 to 2000. The latest decrease, the first in 25 years, leads some medical experts to suspect a downward trend.

We're now 36th in the world and dropping as other countries (WITH universal health care) have improved their life expectancies.

Lagging U.S. life expectancy ranking blamed on health system

The United States is falling sharply behind in world wide rankings of life expectancy, and shortcomings in the U.S. health care system may be to blame, scientists say.

Researchers studying the issue concluded that obesity, smoking, traffic accidents and homicide can't account for the drop—"leading us to believe that failings in the U.S. health care system, such as costly specialized and fragmented care, are likely playing a large role," said Peter Muennig of Columbia Univers ity, lead author of the study.

In the research, which appears in the Oct. 7 online issue of the journal Health Affairs, Muennig and co-author Sherry Glied of Columbia cite the growing lack of health insur­ance among Americans as a possible culprit.

The study looked at health spending, behavioral risk factors like obesity and smoking, and survival rates for men and women ages 45 and 65 in the U.S. and 12 other industrial­ized nations.

While the U.S. has achieved gains in 15-year survival rates decade by decade from 1975 to 2005, the researchers found that other countries enjoyed even greater gains. So the U.S. slipped in the ranking, even as per capita health care spending rose at more than twice the rate of the other countries.

Around 1950, the United States ranked 5th for life expectancy at birth for women and 10th for men among developed countries

Is this any way to run the richest nation on earth? Why would anybody fight to stay where we are???

Why, are you going to pay for what AZ can't afford?

No Brewer and Arizona Republicans need to pay for it instead of sitting in their expensive houses.

I am an Arizona Republican and I rent my modest house. I work one fulltime job and two part-time jobs to support myself and 3 kids. So I'm wrong because I don't think we should pay for every illegal living here? I am wrong because there are people milking every social program out there? Where do you suppose we should get this money from to pay for everything and everyone? From Missouri?

@RMil you need to pay taxes to support your state services. The free lunch you have had in AZ is over. And yes you are wrong about illegals. They enable you to buy cheap food, and labor on your house. Undocumented workers have built AZ. The rich folks in AZ know it. How do you think they got rich?

RMil - since you're right there in Arizona, you need to get up and DO SOMETHING about your governor. Brewer is kicking people off Medicaid. Illegals cannot get Medicaid - you have to prove citizenship to get on.

You're letting her kick your fellow American citizens out in the streets. DO SOMETHING!

Not true. Plenty of anchor babies and their families receive medicaid.

And let's not forget the people who go to the ER for every little thing. Hospitals are not allowed to turn them away; and when they go to send them the bill, guess what, fake name, or already moved on to a new identity.

RealAmericanFirst: Illegals do get medicaid. Illegal mothers get their deliveries paid for via medicaid.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/02/washington/02cnd-medicaid.html

I would sue the school system if I were you.

People that are born here!!? what about legal alien that paid taxes like you. I am French my wife is American... where we should live in the Atlantic Ocean?? She was better treated in my country than i am here...but when i read comment like yours...I UNDERSTAND WHY ,SOME DUDE DO NOT THINK BEFORE THEY TALK OR WRITE

We are speaking of people here illegally. Why is that so hard for people to understand? No country has an endless supply of money; you can't give everyone freebies. The line has to be drawn somewhere. Working citizens without insurance and those citizens truly in need are enough to take care of. Never should illegals be given handouts.

Why not just deni it to illegals and give it to the people that were born here instead of taking it from everyone.

Can you read your own language?

And since we cannot afford it here, we should also pull all foreign aid. Every nation for itself. Start with Israel, Africa, Saudi Arabia. End the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Build border fences north and south.

for cacao72

Do not want to be agressive with you I just highlighted how for some people it's difficult to used the correct words and how it can easily slipped to xenophobia

and for your comment do not be blinded by the politics illegal immigration is not correctly approched because they do not want too. Republican and Democrate in the same boat (we share the same problem in France with our ex colonies)

We cannot blame immigrants to try to seek a better life in the other side of the border........and I think that's what did the Mayflower passengers years ago.....

For someone with the screen name citizenoftheworld, you sure do present a nationalistic perspective.

You do NOT qualify for medicaid if you are not a U.S. citizen.

http://www.cms.gov/medicaidgeninfo/01_overview.asp?

why that? Because I think that if you or me were born on a "poor or insecure" country (and sure US-France-Egland and Spain have helped a lot for that to happened) we would be trying to get a better chance for us and our family.

I do not blame human to be what he is but the hypocrisy of the politics.

France is so old that we have lost the trace of the people who were here first, but for America it's easier and the only real American in my eyes are the Native American.....all others were immigrant in a closer or older past

for the Mexican it looks like that's it's more the borders that crossed them rather than them crossing the border

Santa Fe-Los angeles-San Francisco-San Diego do not sound to English in my ears

GOP politicians are masters of diversion and hypocrisy. Brewer would LOVE for you to believe that she's just kicking "illegals" off state health care. The reality is that EVERY ONE OF THOSE 310,000 people losing their coverage is an AMERICAN CITIZEN.

Do your homework or lose your state. One or the other.

citizenoftheworld ... you are wrong. Illegals, primarily from Mexico, are not the same as coming over on the Mayflower. Why make such an absurd comparison unless you are just out of facts? We have 14 million illegals who are anchoring to bring more illegals who all reproduce at 2.5 times the U.S. citizen average and who are 85% in poverty and draining our social programs, straining our schools and holding back educational excellence, lowering our health care, and so on and so on. Don't degrade our founding settlers by comparing them to people coming here illegally now that we are the united state with rule-of-law. Ridiculous.....

The wealthy have good healthcare because they have the money to pay for it- it's not like they are getting it for free and denying someone else healthcare. I don't understand the resentment towards people who make money and spend it appropriately.

Yes, you are denying other people health care. Because you believe that since you can afford the ridiculously-expensive cost of health insurance in this country, we shouldn't institute a national health care system that allows EVERYONE to afford coverage.

EVERY other developed nation has a national health care program, and theirs are cheaper per capita BY FAR than the U.S. system. Yet you sit here typing that your support of this idiotic system doesn't prevent other people from getting coverage? You're deluded.

I know of a lot of seniors who retired to AZ to live out their golden years in the land of sunshine. They didn't know it would turn into a death camp! Ironic isn't it?

Those seniors who retire in AZ usually have a retirement complete with healthcare. Did they move here thinking the state pays everyone's healthcare???

Delana Darrow First of all none of you are GOD,Deity,or whatever I mean this is just like your warped Abortion argumeant we've had in this country for decades "the featis has a soul or consionis the momunet of conseption right? So the Mother hasn't any right to deny it life unless in certain circumstances, but the state of Arizona has "the right" to deny life to someone based on thier imogration status,economic pusition,Or race witch is what alot of this is about well lady's/gentalmen thats called hypocrisy,and alot of other things murder by default comes to mind and standing idaly by while its happening and watching it makes you just as guilty... Try exsplaining that to whatever contrals the universe good luck.....

Put down the Jug, I say again put down the Jug. Hickup, Burp

We're not denying health care. We're denying making the taxpayers pay for it. You can have all the health care you want when you get a job and pay for it like the rest of us. It is not the government's responsibility to pay your bills. Man up and take responsibility for yourself.

Yep, no matter the issue it seems someone comes up with a story that perfectly proves their point. Against the estate tax? Someone will inevitably talk about how their uncle worked in the coal mines for years to afford a middle-class lifestyle and then when he died the govt. came in and took everything except their last loaf of bread, etc. Never let the facts get in the way of an opinion...

Well said, regarding the"control and regulation" it is not enforced for 2 reason 1) a way to maintain wages low 2) to have a scapgoat in case of problem ......and infortunately it's working admirably well.

Foreign aid provides jobs to our citizens, always has.

Jesus, we can't afford it anymore, period.

Make those 4 things happen and you will save a handful of $$ out of billions.

Good grief, when will people ever look at the US budget...

To JG-1944222...nothing more to be said, you hit it dead on. I'm tired and I think the whole nation is tired. Maybe the politician should step down and let real people run the country.

Outside contractors? You mean like we did with the Military in Iraq with Blackwater and KBR? Substandard work (that killed some our soldiers) at triple the price?

That's the world you want?

Social Darwinism at its finest, folks!

Chuck, you DO realize that the contractors you want to take over government services make a profit, don't you? Well, government workers are typically amongst the lowest paid people in their profession. I guarantee this is the case for attorneys and IT professionals. So, how is it cost effective to pay a worker more than you already pay for the same work, then tack on a 100% or higher profit margin? Use your head man!!

Same argument goes for why our current health insurance system costs twice as much as other countries' universal health care systems.

Want to know where your health care premiums go?

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2007 Total CEO Compensation

• Aetna Ronald A. Williams: $23,045,834
• Cigna H. Edward Hanway: $25,839,777
• Coventry Dale B. Wolf : $14,869,823
• Health Net Jay M. Gellert: $3,686,230
• Humana Michael McCallister: $10,312,557
• U.Health Grp Stephen J. Hemsley: $13,164,529
• WellPoint Angela Braly (2007): $9,094,271
  L. Glasscock (2006): $23,886,169

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2008 Total CEO Compensation

• Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $24,300,112
• Cigna, H. Edward Hanway: $12,236,740
• Coventry, Dale Wolf: $9,047,469
• Health Net, Jay Gellert: $4,425,355
• Humana, Michael McCallister: $4,764,309
• U. Health Group, Stephen J. Hemsley: $3,241,042
• Wellpoint, Angela Braly: $9,844,212

That's over $68 million of our health care premiums skimmed off last year. Do you feel really independent throwing your money to these greedy pigs instead of caring for your fellow Americans' health?

The President of the United States makes $400,000 a year, or 15% of the lowest-paid CEO on this list.

puh-leaze.

Another Gin & Tonic there Ernest?

hahahahaha... that's a really convincing story, if you're going to lie at least put some effort into it.

Then stop giving out tootsie rolls or start charging for them, Ernest!

Ernest, I realize you are getting hit on this one really hard, but those that are commenting must have been sheltered from society, fo I have seen much worse. They would not believe the ridiculous things that people do... I for one believe you.

"This program" is NOT SERVING "these people". You have to prove citizenship to get Medicaid. Every one of those people Brewer is kicking off is an American citizen.

They don't want to "get rid" of medicaid, just reign it in. I don't see why not.

And how are they going to deal with the next epidemic that comes along?

Well - Heysus - She is doing what she has to, somebody has to make the tough decisions or go bust. Medicaid is for certain purposes, I think basic care for kids under 18 is good, and then we should take care of the disabled. We can't afford this.

I'm ashamed I live in Brewer's neighborhood!

Then move

Then tell us Gid, what is your solution?

Gid - maybe the 300,000 unemployed and the 310,000 newly uninsured Arizonans should show up at her house? (Although there is some overlap, so we may only get 500,000 or so total.) And they can bring their 278,000 uninsured children with them.

Brewer can tend to their medical and other needs on her expansive lawn.

You live in a dream world 24/7 don't you.

Sounded fairly straightforward to me, Sandy.

Oscar Levant once said, "the only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too."

And the Republicans allow the poor to DIE.

September 17, 2009

(Reuters) - Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

Bleeding heart Sandy , Republicans die as well. You think we have life any better or easier then Democrats?

nothing but crickets