So basically this study is saying that Happy Meals are ok, it is the kids fault for not having self control to not eat the yummy juicy morsels of meat their parents stick in front of their faces? aka not the parents fault, its kids lack of self control to just say NO!
We've all heard about the "Tiger Moms" that demand a lot from their kids, and the reality is that they are much more likely to succeed, and now we see why.
Now we'll see a plethora of parenting books on this.
I just skimmed through the article, but are kids that have ADD/ADHD mentioned as being at higher risk for these problems? If so, I'm in trouble because I have a 6 year old daughter that was diagnosed with this, and impulse control is her main issue. Not good news at all.
Articles like this are really depressing, and I hope some other posters that have children with impulse issues will comment on this.
You said your daughter is only six. With early help many strides can be made to overcome this. Get her that early help and it could be a non-issue down the road.
In response to bspurloc - If you exercise your self-control long enough to read the entire article, you'll realize that's not at all what it says.
The article says that it's perfectly OK for parents to make a child wait for something like a snack - that this teaches self control. It also stresses that telling a child NO 10 times and then giving in the 11th teaches poor self control.
Nowhere does it claim that self control skills are innate or are the sole responsibility of the child. In fact, the article even addresses over-doing teaching your child self-control (Tiger Mom).
All of this makes perfect sense to me. If you teach your small child that they are expected to be polite and well-mannered and that the world doesn't revolve around them, they'll grow up to be better people. If you indulge and are inconsistent, they'll grow up to be more selfish. Nice to see some validation for common sense.
I agree that toddlers aren't little adults. But children can learn what is appropriate behavior and boundaries within reason. For example, if my child wants another glass of milk after she just had one for lunch, then I may tell her that she doesn't need one and that she has to wait for dinner. Then I'll give her an alternative choice of drinks. If she pitches a fit, then I wonder if it is time for a nap or look for some other cause. Either way, I don't have to give in or yell or let have her way even if she is just a kid.
A child can have self control in the form of boundaries and discipline appropriate to the child's age and maturity level. Children start learning right from wrong at an early age. Unfortunantly, I have seen too many children misbehave as teenagers and adults partly because someone indulged their bad behavior too often as a child and they never had the appropriate boundaries.
And that attitude is exactly why so many kids in the US are diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. Kids are not born with self-control...it's a learned skill that too many so-called parents don't bother to teach. Just like learning to walk, talk and feed themselves, kids need to be taught to control their impulses, and 3 years old is NOT too young to start.
Parents need to keep in mind that they aren't raising children...ultimately they are raising adults.
We need to stop looking at the issue of child development through American lenses. We must realize that a lot of what we perceive to be normal child behavior is merely the ramifications of a culture that thrives on indulging in the every whim of a child. Children as early as the age of two can begin learning the lesson that the world does not revolve around them. This is a tricky message to send in the US as everything children see around them tells them otherwise.
I agree with your comment. I've been a teacher for 21 years and I know from first hand experience that kids with ADD/ADHD can learn self-control. I have also had many students who have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD simply because the parent took the child from doctor to doctor until one was found that would give the diagnoses. Those are the parents who did not take the time to teach self-control to their children. (Yes, I do talk with the parents of my students.)
With the students who actually have ADD/ADHD, I usually have the students close to my desk, and I try to "bookend" the student with students who have good self-control. That way, the ADD/ADHD student can learn through example while I'm at another table helping others, and we all work as a team to help the ADD/ADHD student to work at becoming more successful in the classroom.
We also discuss consequences and how to control whether one wants a positive consequence or a negative consequence. The students who don't truely have ADD/ADHD adapt their behavior very quickly, those who do have ADD/ADHD take a little longer adapting to the concept.
I have taught K-12 classes (2 yrs.), 600 middle school kids a year, 30 in a classroom (3yrs.), and I now teach 7-12 visual art (16 yrs.).
Keep in mind that students in visual art class have to use various types of media and sharp objects (scissors, exacto kives), so self-control and keeping students on task is a safety issue for everyone in the classroom. We have national and state objectives to meet like all other teachers, so the idea that fine art classes are just "organized recess" is flawed thinking. The use of art enables the creation of the man made objects around you. Using the art concepts enables one to make better decisions about those objects. (If an object doesn't work well, it has a flawed design.)
I have no problems taking my three, three-year-old grand children in public. Their manners are nothing less than perfect. If they were not, i would not even allow them in my home.
Children CAN be taught to behave. i still think many ADHD impulse control kids are really the product of bad parenting and the lack of a swift kick in the ass.
Jeff, check out articles about our food and the typical American diet and see what you think. In th 50's, no ADHD but food sources changed and other things did too. Appreciate the comment.
Don't mean to sound like a Jerk but this this is a given. We carry all kinds of traits but teaching, upbringing and education are a pivoting factor. There is so much involved here but it comes down to the person's figurative heart condition. If the person is good deep down in their heart they can make the needed changes. There is a factor that goes beyond human thinking to see that. Sometimes even without parent help this happens but upbringing is major.
There is more than one kind of success in life. We need to stop making it all about the money as a society. Having friends and family who care about you counts for something.
This is stupid. This just in: Bad things happen to people who don't think before they leap... This is news how? This is so obvious as to be beyond pointless. One could argue that health problems and criminal problems ARE impulse control issues. Just more psuedoscience grabage to be misinterpreted by media outlets...jeez...
Your brother has self control. If he didn't have self control he would not be successful. If he did not have self control he would have taken the money from the business, and the business employees, and spent it on whims. He controlled his impulse from buying unnecessaries, and making thoughtful decisions based on information. (Decisions regarding finances, employees, materials, tone of conducing business, etc.)
Imagine that, edward, you know his brother better than he does. Wow. Your post is the most absurd thing i've read on the internet. just chalked full of assumptions. "If he did not have self control he would have taken money from the business, and the business employees, and spent it on whims" ... cool Durkheim. The leap in logic from lack of self-control straight to embezzlement is ridiculous to the point of being comical. Maybe his brother got lucky. Maybe his lack of self control actually made him successful, because he went in on very risky propositions that just happened to pay off. I don't know, but then again I'm not claiming to like you are. Oh and by the way Tim's question was is his brother an anomaly, not does his brother have or lack self-control. You immediately threw the real question out as invalid based on the logical fallacy that no one can be successful while at the same time lacking self-control.
no suprise here. i know a lot of super smart people who do really stupid things and screw up their lives. but there's a lot to be said for individual personalities. my husband and his brother were raised the exact same way by an extremely indulgent mother. my husband is very successful, responsible, never did drugs or drank, he's a terrific father and husband. his older brother is 32, unemployed, a deadbeat dad, and has all his bills paid by his parents. everytime we turn around we hear another story about something stupid he did. it's truly bizarre how different they are. now when we go to visit my in laws i can see my mother in law treating our kids the same way she raised hers. if my daughter asks for 5 oreo cookies she gets them. if she wants cake for dinner, that's fine. if she spends the night my MIL will tell me my daughter didn't go to bed until 11 because she said she didn't want to go to sleep. she's 2!!!! so yeah- i can easily see how they created the situation with my brother in law, but my husband does just fine on his own.
Some spoiled rotten people turn out out to be good, decent people despite their circumstances. Others take an inch and never look back and say screw you when anyone tries to get their behavior under control. You are very lucky that your husband is a good man.
As for your MIL, I would do what is best for your daughter first and foremost. She is two years old and her well being is more important than your MIL's feelings. I too have inlaws that are indulgent with one of their children and her children, but give me and my husband excuse after excuse why they can't attempt to have a relationship with us or our daughter.
I have even made alternative living arrangements for holiday gatherings so that we could get some peace and quite and not have children yelling and screaming outside our room at all hours of the night. It hurt my MIL's feelings and I knew she was offended, but her plan was to stick me, my husband, and two yr old child in a small, crowded office while her daughter's family got two bedrooms and their own bathroom upstairs. They won't change this arrangement because that is the way her daughter likes it. I told my husband that I wouldn't stay there and as a result we stayed at a nearby hotel. I got to keep my sanity and my family got to keep some sense of dignity. It was well worth the investment.
So...my youngest son, who is now 25, is finally becoming a resonsible adult on his own. Having had two children before him, I knew he was different. He was a difficult baby and toddler, and did not behave in the way my 2 older children did. I had him tested and was told he had an auditory processing disorder and ADHD. BUT...he was smart, very smart. Although he was kicked out of his pre-K, which I expected, he excelled at the alternative program he was put in, and actually ended up skipping ahead a grade. What I did was get him involved in sports, and music, and even video games. He became a prodigy on the drums. Sports, not so much. He had teachers and adults competing to beat him at the video games. But his adult claim to fame is music. Sometimes you just have to try as a parent to find a niche for your child. Not everyone fits into the traditional mold. I'm happy for my son. It wasn't indulgence. Just think outside the box sometimes. Not every child will fit into the traditional format. It doesn't mean that they can't be successful and productive. The world needs all kinds of people.
This only comes from my perspective, my son had ADHD/hyperactivity, over the years I saw the mistakes I made as a mother, one big one was discipline and being consistant with it. children don't learn what they are not taught. If I could go back and change the way I did things I would in a heartbeat. I worked but didn't really have to, I was spoiled as a child also, and everything the article said fits me to a tee as well as my son. And agree that what it says is true. But being a Tiger mom is probably going over board, too much to little, life and all that it implies is a balancing act. And I'm the first to admit its hard to master.
Not to scare you, but I lost my son to suicide, not so long ago. So all I do is go over the mistakes I made, everyday. So just try hard to get a routine for the kids and try to set ground rules and follow them as much as possible. Its a important job being a parent. Never take lightly, and don't give up on trying new things.
The drugs they give these children, I'm not in favor of the at all.
mom11, so sorry for your loss. to everyone, I highly recommend "Children, the Challenge" by Richard Dreikers. Dreikers (this was published in hmmm1964?) advocates giving children choices that are acceptable to you, the parent. He also has some interesting information on 'kid logic.' One take away I got was your (my) job as parent is to get small human beings to grow up to be productive, healthy, etc., larger (adult) human beings. Your job is not (necessarily) to have 'fun.' Now, having children can be fun, at times, and children are truly wonderous beings. But it is, according to Dreikers, very important to understand what your parenting job is. Our daughter (27 now) has cerebral palsy. As much as we could (what with doctors, physical terrorists...er...therapists, testing, advocating, etc.) we gave her choices that were acceptable to us. She is now a responsible, working member of society. So I guess either Dreikers was right, or we lucked out.
Tim doesn't tell us what he means by my brother has no self control. If it means brother is always, impulsively, going to, or attending to, said business rather than staying at home with the family, that's one thing. I would say if brother is a spendthrift, or had a habit of yelling at customers, he probably would not have a successful business. Tim may see his brother's impulsive, or maybe obsessive, involvement in his business as lack of self control. We simply don't know enough to comment either way on Tim's brother.
So basically this study is saying that Happy Meals are ok, it is the kids fault for not having self control to not eat the yummy juicy morsels of meat their parents stick in front of their faces? aka not the parents fault, its kids lack of self control to just say NO!
This study makes a lot of sense.
We've all heard about the "Tiger Moms" that demand a lot from their kids, and the reality is that they are much more likely to succeed, and now we see why.
Now we'll see a plethora of parenting books on this.
@bspurloc
Didn't read the whole thing, did ya?
I just skimmed through the article, but are kids that have ADD/ADHD mentioned as being at higher risk for these problems? If so, I'm in trouble because I have a 6 year old daughter that was diagnosed with this, and impulse control is her main issue. Not good news at all.
Articles like this are really depressing, and I hope some other posters that have children with impulse issues will comment on this.
There are therapies available for kids with ADHD. You can look into some counseling for your child.
@dawnm
You said your daughter is only six. With early help many strides can be made to overcome this. Get her that early help and it could be a non-issue down the road.
Good luck!
In response to bspurloc - If you exercise your self-control long enough to read the entire article, you'll realize that's not at all what it says.
The article says that it's perfectly OK for parents to make a child wait for something like a snack - that this teaches self control. It also stresses that telling a child NO 10 times and then giving in the 11th teaches poor self control.
Nowhere does it claim that self control skills are innate or are the sole responsibility of the child. In fact, the article even addresses over-doing teaching your child self-control (Tiger Mom).
All of this makes perfect sense to me. If you teach your small child that they are expected to be polite and well-mannered and that the world doesn't revolve around them, they'll grow up to be better people. If you indulge and are inconsistent, they'll grow up to be more selfish. Nice to see some validation for common sense.
So Raven was correctly diagnosed in Snow Crash.
Bull! Just how many 3 year olds do you know who have self control? They are still trying to make kids growup too fast.
I agree that toddlers aren't little adults. But children can learn what is appropriate behavior and boundaries within reason. For example, if my child wants another glass of milk after she just had one for lunch, then I may tell her that she doesn't need one and that she has to wait for dinner. Then I'll give her an alternative choice of drinks. If she pitches a fit, then I wonder if it is time for a nap or look for some other cause. Either way, I don't have to give in or yell or let have her way even if she is just a kid.
A child can have self control in the form of boundaries and discipline appropriate to the child's age and maturity level. Children start learning right from wrong at an early age. Unfortunantly, I have seen too many children misbehave as teenagers and adults partly because someone indulged their bad behavior too often as a child and they never had the appropriate boundaries.
And that attitude is exactly why so many kids in the US are diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. Kids are not born with self-control...it's a learned skill that too many so-called parents don't bother to teach. Just like learning to walk, talk and feed themselves, kids need to be taught to control their impulses, and 3 years old is NOT too young to start.
Parents need to keep in mind that they aren't raising children...ultimately they are raising adults.
We need to stop looking at the issue of child development through American lenses. We must realize that a lot of what we perceive to be normal child behavior is merely the ramifications of a culture that thrives on indulging in the every whim of a child. Children as early as the age of two can begin learning the lesson that the world does not revolve around them. This is a tricky message to send in the US as everything children see around them tells them otherwise.
@Momster
I agree with your comment. I've been a teacher for 21 years and I know from first hand experience that kids with ADD/ADHD can learn self-control. I have also had many students who have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD simply because the parent took the child from doctor to doctor until one was found that would give the diagnoses. Those are the parents who did not take the time to teach self-control to their children. (Yes, I do talk with the parents of my students.)
With the students who actually have ADD/ADHD, I usually have the students close to my desk, and I try to "bookend" the student with students who have good self-control. That way, the ADD/ADHD student can learn through example while I'm at another table helping others, and we all work as a team to help the ADD/ADHD student to work at becoming more successful in the classroom.
We also discuss consequences and how to control whether one wants a positive consequence or a negative consequence. The students who don't truely have ADD/ADHD adapt their behavior very quickly, those who do have ADD/ADHD take a little longer adapting to the concept.
I have taught K-12 classes (2 yrs.), 600 middle school kids a year, 30 in a classroom (3yrs.), and I now teach 7-12 visual art (16 yrs.).
Keep in mind that students in visual art class have to use various types of media and sharp objects (scissors, exacto kives), so self-control and keeping students on task is a safety issue for everyone in the classroom. We have national and state objectives to meet like all other teachers, so the idea that fine art classes are just "organized recess" is flawed thinking. The use of art enables the creation of the man made objects around you. Using the art concepts enables one to make better decisions about those objects. (If an object doesn't work well, it has a flawed design.)
Shawn:
I have no problems taking my three, three-year-old grand children in public. Their manners are nothing less than perfect. If they were not, i would not even allow them in my home.
Children CAN be taught to behave. i still think many ADHD impulse control kids are really the product of bad parenting and the lack of a swift kick in the ass.
Jeff, check out articles about our food and the typical American diet and see what you think. In th 50's, no ADHD but food sources changed and other things did too. Appreciate the comment.
Don't mean to sound like a Jerk but this this is a given. We carry all kinds of traits but teaching, upbringing and education are a pivoting factor. There is so much involved here but it comes down to the person's figurative heart condition. If the person is good deep down in their heart they can make the needed changes. There is a factor that goes beyond human thinking to see that. Sometimes even without parent help this happens but upbringing is major.
There is more than one kind of success in life. We need to stop making it all about the money as a society. Having friends and family who care about you counts for something.
This is stupid. This just in: Bad things happen to people who don't think before they leap... This is news how? This is so obvious as to be beyond pointless. One could argue that health problems and criminal problems ARE impulse control issues. Just more psuedoscience grabage to be misinterpreted by media outlets...jeez...
My brother has no self control and he's a successful business owner. An anomally?
Your brother has self control. If he didn't have self control he would not be successful. If he did not have self control he would have taken the money from the business, and the business employees, and spent it on whims. He controlled his impulse from buying unnecessaries, and making thoughtful decisions based on information. (Decisions regarding finances, employees, materials, tone of conducing business, etc.)
Imagine that, edward, you know his brother better than he does. Wow. Your post is the most absurd thing i've read on the internet. just chalked full of assumptions. "If he did not have self control he would have taken money from the business, and the business employees, and spent it on whims" ... cool Durkheim. The leap in logic from lack of self-control straight to embezzlement is ridiculous to the point of being comical. Maybe his brother got lucky. Maybe his lack of self control actually made him successful, because he went in on very risky propositions that just happened to pay off. I don't know, but then again I'm not claiming to like you are. Oh and by the way Tim's question was is his brother an anomaly, not does his brother have or lack self-control. You immediately threw the real question out as invalid based on the logical fallacy that no one can be successful while at the same time lacking self-control.
no suprise here. i know a lot of super smart people who do really stupid things and screw up their lives. but there's a lot to be said for individual personalities. my husband and his brother were raised the exact same way by an extremely indulgent mother. my husband is very successful, responsible, never did drugs or drank, he's a terrific father and husband. his older brother is 32, unemployed, a deadbeat dad, and has all his bills paid by his parents. everytime we turn around we hear another story about something stupid he did. it's truly bizarre how different they are. now when we go to visit my in laws i can see my mother in law treating our kids the same way she raised hers. if my daughter asks for 5 oreo cookies she gets them. if she wants cake for dinner, that's fine. if she spends the night my MIL will tell me my daughter didn't go to bed until 11 because she said she didn't want to go to sleep. she's 2!!!! so yeah- i can easily see how they created the situation with my brother in law, but my husband does just fine on his own.
Some spoiled rotten people turn out out to be good, decent people despite their circumstances. Others take an inch and never look back and say screw you when anyone tries to get their behavior under control. You are very lucky that your husband is a good man.
As for your MIL, I would do what is best for your daughter first and foremost. She is two years old and her well being is more important than your MIL's feelings. I too have inlaws that are indulgent with one of their children and her children, but give me and my husband excuse after excuse why they can't attempt to have a relationship with us or our daughter.
I have even made alternative living arrangements for holiday gatherings so that we could get some peace and quite and not have children yelling and screaming outside our room at all hours of the night. It hurt my MIL's feelings and I knew she was offended, but her plan was to stick me, my husband, and two yr old child in a small, crowded office while her daughter's family got two bedrooms and their own bathroom upstairs. They won't change this arrangement because that is the way her daughter likes it. I told my husband that I wouldn't stay there and as a result we stayed at a nearby hotel. I got to keep my sanity and my family got to keep some sense of dignity. It was well worth the investment.
So...my youngest son, who is now 25, is finally becoming a resonsible adult on his own. Having had two children before him, I knew he was different. He was a difficult baby and toddler, and did not behave in the way my 2 older children did. I had him tested and was told he had an auditory processing disorder and ADHD. BUT...he was smart, very smart. Although he was kicked out of his pre-K, which I expected, he excelled at the alternative program he was put in, and actually ended up skipping ahead a grade. What I did was get him involved in sports, and music, and even video games. He became a prodigy on the drums. Sports, not so much. He had teachers and adults competing to beat him at the video games. But his adult claim to fame is music. Sometimes you just have to try as a parent to find a niche for your child. Not everyone fits into the traditional mold. I'm happy for my son. It wasn't indulgence. Just think outside the box sometimes. Not every child will fit into the traditional format. It doesn't mean that they can't be successful and productive. The world needs all kinds of people.
Dawnm,
This only comes from my perspective, my son had ADHD/hyperactivity, over the years I saw the mistakes I made as a mother, one big one was discipline and being consistant with it. children don't learn what they are not taught. If I could go back and change the way I did things I would in a heartbeat. I worked but didn't really have to, I was spoiled as a child also, and everything the article said fits me to a tee as well as my son. And agree that what it says is true. But being a Tiger mom is probably going over board, too much to little, life and all that it implies is a balancing act. And I'm the first to admit its hard to master.
Not to scare you, but I lost my son to suicide, not so long ago. So all I do is go over the mistakes I made, everyday. So just try hard to get a routine for the kids and try to set ground rules and follow them as much as possible. Its a important job being a parent. Never take lightly, and don't give up on trying new things.
The drugs they give these children, I'm not in favor of the at all.
mom11, so sorry for your loss. to everyone, I highly recommend "Children, the Challenge" by Richard Dreikers. Dreikers (this was published in hmmm1964?) advocates giving children choices that are acceptable to you, the parent. He also has some interesting information on 'kid logic.' One take away I got was your (my) job as parent is to get small human beings to grow up to be productive, healthy, etc., larger (adult) human beings. Your job is not (necessarily) to have 'fun.' Now, having children can be fun, at times, and children are truly wonderous beings. But it is, according to Dreikers, very important to understand what your parenting job is. Our daughter (27 now) has cerebral palsy. As much as we could (what with doctors, physical terrorists...er...therapists, testing, advocating, etc.) we gave her choices that were acceptable to us. She is now a responsible, working member of society. So I guess either Dreikers was right, or we lucked out.
all I can say is WoW . We are all in trouble then people ... PLEASE !! use some common sense..
Tim doesn't tell us what he means by my brother has no self control. If it means brother is always, impulsively, going to, or attending to, said business rather than staying at home with the family, that's one thing. I would say if brother is a spendthrift, or had a habit of yelling at customers, he probably would not have a successful business. Tim may see his brother's impulsive, or maybe obsessive, involvement in his business as lack of self control. We simply don't know enough to comment either way on Tim's brother.
oops. this was supposed to reply on #9. oh well.