as a republican, i say quit whining, take a tax cut...and dont bother calling back. im too busy opposing mental health programs (of all kinds), veteran assistance programs and soon i'll be hacking away at your benefits too.

thanks for your service though, you are a patriot. kinda like me. i hope we have the chance to do a photo op together so i can i show everyone that i love the troops.

Nice zaruski...spot on. However, you could have thanked them particularly for serving in "Operation Sorry We Thought You had WMD" as well.

Very nice Zar buddy, Or, you could have said "thank you for sacrificing a whole body and mind for the rest of your lives so trolls like us can use your service to pot shot our favorite do-badder of the day" Of course, you wouldn't get a thumbs up from COTW for any comment less caustic and cynical.

Way to hijack a story about two patriots and turn it into something political. Seriously; Zaruski and Citizen you both disgust me.

Hey Brat, last time I checked, wars are nearly all political. For whatever its worth, I'm a third generation vet (also of Iraq) so I speak from FIRST HAND experience. Thanks for playing...seriously

Heroes indeed, i wish we would actually put our money where are mouths are, we need a vast improvement in VA care and assistance for veterans just like these guys who DO NOT get appropriate care!

Zaruski, you are not a patriot or your first paragraph wouldn't be there. Those 2 men put their hind ends on the line for our counry. Where is yours? Safe at home? My husband served in Viet Nam and was able to block memories. He can't remember a lot of what happened. No nightmares or bad memories. I'm thankful for that. You, sir, need to walk a mile in those guys' shoes to know how they feel. Father and son, I salute you and what you have done for us. May God heal your bodies and minds and may organizations and doctors here find the help you need.

ohhnho- as a vet of Iraq, I believe I have earned a right to be critical of our government's abuse and misuse of soldiers. Bush and Co. LIED to me and everyone else about the WMD that was NEVER there!!! I feel sorry for these two guys like I feel sorry for all of us who believed, with all our heart, the BS reasons for invasion. My cynicism, therefore, is based on EXPERIENCE, not thinking about it! It was especially born out when hearing Bush JOKE about soldiers who couldn't find WMD in a distasteful "skit" he did for the journalist dinner he gave later that year. JOKED ABOUT IT, while our guys (like those in this "news" piece) were literally dying looking for the sh*t. So excuse me if I don't share in your illusions. They do not match the truth of what really went down in Iraq.

Citizen-- as someone so callous and eager to belittle the sacrifices of your fellow brothers in arms, I would think that you would have done some cursory research into the matter. Bush took the information available to him, information that had been purposely skewed by Saddam Hussein. You may find this article about Saddam's last interview (before execution) enlightening in this regard:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070104217.html

In brief, Saddam wanted the world to believe that he had an active WMD program because it helped keep his bitter rival, Iran, in check. The origin of the lie is important, I feel, and I'm sick of under informed Bush-whackers blaming our ex-POTUS for world events that were largely out of his control.

You can dislike Bush, I don't like him myself, but do so for the right reasons.

very few people I know that have served in combat (as I did) would want their loved ones to go fight for an unnecessary wars..................

I am pretty sure Citizen of the world has never stood in side a pair of military boots.

He just doesn't seem to speak of the true wisdom learned and earned in uniform.

At best he was a first or second round drop in basic training.

I salute the father and Son and thank them profusely.

@ohhnho

Very nice Zar buddy, Or, you could have said "thank you for sacrificing a whole body and mind for the rest of your lives so trolls like us can use your service to pot shot our favorite do-badder of the day"

you are absolutely right. i am using their service to take a pot shot and to troll. but the chances that those soldiers will ever become aware of my trolling are slim, and if they do, my trolling will have absolutely zero impact on their lives.

however, when i walk into the voting booth, you can be sure i will not be voting for people who dismiss PTSD and rehabilitation programs for soldiers as nothing more tham items in a budget that can be slashed without considering the human impact it will have.

and that my friend, will indeed impact their lives.

so tell me now, which way are you voting?

i thought it was gon'a be a story about bush sr. and jr.

The post-war needs are going to be huge and must be addressed. It took years for vets to even get the government to admit that they had been sprayed with the defoliant, Agent Orange". At the same time that these that served need funding--just a small "bump" in the overall VA budget. I think we all want the 50,000 left in Iraq and about the same amount in Afghanistan back--why are they still there. No other war has caused deployment after deployment. These guys fought in an environment where they couldn't always tell who was the enemy.

If the government leaves this generation to fend for themselves, as they did my era, VN, people will remember. The next time the government wants another war--maybe no one will serve. Why don't we slice it off the other end--by stopping the wars.

WMG-21 and GrandNapper- I was a commissioned officer in the USN and, later, USAF, 10 years reserve, called to active duty in the initial stages of Iraq, 2002-2005. "Cursory research" you say? As for Hussein's bluff hand with Iran and others, you are spot on. However, we now have people on the record, from Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, Rumsfeld's new book, Woodward, Richard Clarke, The Downing Street memos (which I personally think are the most damning evidence though no one on this side of the Atlantic took it seriously), The PNAC documents, particularly those written in 1997, Dep. Secretary of State for Powell's statements, the reports of our Nuclear investigators from both the UN and our own country, on the ground in Iraq up to the night of the invasion, saying NOT to invade, because they were not finding ANYTHING!, etc, etc. Should I go on?

I was THERE when we started rerouting personnel and supplies to Iraq theater AWAY from Afghanistan and Bin Laden. That is when I FIRST started questioning.

Why? The guy who did us on 9/11....and we let him go??? We had his a$$ in Tora Bora and Gen. Franks called off the dogs (you can read that for the record by the commander of the unit who put out his book a few years back)! Bush stated in 2004 Bin Laden was "no longer his chief concern!" Are you kidding me? I didn't sign up to go chasing oil fields in Iraq, which I am now convinced this "excursionist action" was all about, you know, the one Cheney and Rumsfeld said would take 6 weeks tops and be paid for by Iraq oil, be welcomed as heroes and all the other BS propaganda!

I have a masters degree in theology, I think I am able to do "cursory research" thank you very much! Stick your judgments of me up where the sun don't shine....I could care less, because I was there, paying attention, observing, reading, asking my buddies who went as well....

Keep on live in your propaganda dream world......

I never judged you, nor do I live in a "propaganda dream world," thanks very much. I merely pointed out that there is culpability on both sides of the ocean. You yourself said it was spot on. Please don't assume intention from your own biases-- it makes you look foolish.

Amen, citizen of the world. Thankyou for sharing so many invaluable sources. If people would take the time to reference what you mentioned they would find out for themselves just how many lies have been told. Osama Bin-laden has ties to the Bush family going back decades. His brother was killed in a plan crash in Dallas during a visit to the Bushes in the '90's. During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan the US funded Bin-laden. Then we turned around and stabbed him in the back. That's what we get for interfering in the business of other countries in the first place. The attitude seems to be that we'll worry about tomorrow when it gets here but in the meantime today we'll cause as many problems for others as we can.

Same here McJ. My family has served in every conflict except for Korea and the first Gulf War. The Revolutionary War was my family's civil war since I had ancestors who fought on both sides. My son is currently serving in the Army as a chemical weapons specialist. Then again, this country can't go twenty years without waging war somewhere. Look it up and you'll get what I mean.

You are an A$$. It is really sad that you do not have any clue about military personnel, their families or why they are. Please go back into your hole and quit RANTING

Being a patriot and defending your country when you are called to serve is an honor and the sacrifice made by honorable men. It's not a matter of being "tuff" or "cool" or "evil". It is the duty of free men to serve and protect fools like you who have no honor or self respect. You are the government - if you don't like it change it or leave it.

Well said, bobk, thanks for the comment in support of our military personnel. 9/11, you need some meds......

What is really frightening about this post is that two someones gave it a thumb up.

To 9/11 was an inside job:The world needs fewer heartless sadists like you. Your logic is faulty and you have no compassion for injured human beings. These men went to defend our way of life which is defined by the US Constitution, and served in a war declared by our Commander in Chief, who ditched any military service, whose role is determined by our Constitution. You need to be shipped over there asap and suffer what they did.

8/11 Learn to spell, get a job and get a life. Better yet........just go away.

lol nicely said, answer to god only, fight according in god's will! may our father definitely bless you inside job

9/11, you said:

If you knew ANYTHING about our founding fathers or God, you would know who the real enemies are.

Yet, you seem to display an errant disregard for the country our forefathers founded and a complete inability to fathom God.

For starters, our intelligence regarding the terrorists who committed the attacks on 9/11 is fairly complete-- we have the self-professed mastermind of the attack, Khalid Sheik Mohammad, in custody in Guantanamo, so apparently our "evil" act of invading Afghanistan netted our man. We missed out on the CEO, so to speak, but ran him into the hills where he has done little more than sputter inane threats that have yielded no tactical action of any kind. Now, regarding Iraq and the missing WMD's, please read this Washington Post article regarding the final interview given by Saddam Hussein:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070104217.html

wherein he provided his reasoning to willfully deceive the world to believe that his WMD program was active.

Regarding our founding fathers:

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. --Thomas Jefferson

To persevere in one's duty and be silent, is the best answer to calumny. --George Washington

A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins. -- Ben Franklin

The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men. -- John Adams

So, as you can see, our founding father's despised tyranny and were suspicious of it in all forms. Seems to me they may have encouraged a swift dealing with our enemies that exhort authority over their people with a cruel, unworthy hand.

Lastly, regarding God, since you seem so self-righteous, let me remind you "Judge not lest ye be judged."

You have a very narrow interpretation of God, one that is logically indefensible. If God is all-powerful (Omnipotent), then he is by extension both omniscient and omnipresent (all-knowing, ever-present). These are basic beliefs held to be true of God (regardless of faith). Yet, by these attributes, it would mean that God is infinite-- for to provide any fetters that limit "his" power, reach or authority, he would cease to be God and become simply a god, or demi-god. Therefore, if God exists (capital G) then he is, by virtue of his necessary attributes, an infinite being-- a being which, as a repercussion of being infinite (omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent), has infinite ways to reach and know "him." Therefore, your suggestion that others do not know God is to suggest that you yourself have a petty, fettered god defined only by your own limited interpretation of "him" and as such, is a reflection of your own ambition, will and bias: in brief, a god, not God.

I will leave you with a final quote from Thomas Jefferson, regarding both duty to country and faith in the divine:

Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

Thank you.

So easy to pick and choose when using founding fathers' quotes. How about this one:

"There never was a good war or a bad peace." --Benjamin Franklin

Just saying. Also, before anyone gets their panties in a bunch: I am appalled that our service people receive such rudimentary care. The article does not say, but I suspect that at least part of the bills mentioned are due to lack of support. I consider those who support cutting VA spending to be criminals of the first water.

Spell checked for Sheep visibility

So... You attack me ,and not what I say,because everything I say is the truth(God).Truth(God) wins every time.So as you suck your thumb and laugh and believe lies, as we get plundered by your god(the devil),the Government and off shore banks you call Federal Reserve ,Ill be telling the truth.Protecting my wealth and family from your chemical evil potions and the evil spells cast out of the TV.

We live longer.

You will be dehumanized and killed with disease and cancer and 1 out of 100 children will get autism.Thats worse than Mao,Stalin,and Hitler combined. You will be conditioned to think Autism and cancer is a natural occurrence, and normal.You will be further drugged. Ignorance is death.

actually, down syndrome, a form of autism, is indeed a natural occurrence. it happens when an egg has two copies of the chromosome 21.

whenever a cell duplicates there is a chance that the copied cell is flawed in some way, and the body has ways to correct for that, and statistically the chances are at fractions of a percentage, but when millions of cells are produced, it is almost certain that you will get some that are flawed.

such flawed cells, whether haploid or diploid, may or may not be viable. trisomy 21 eggs is one of just a few that are viable(most trisomy eggs will be miscarried). what is notable about it is that both parents may have perfect genes and they could still have a baby with trisomy 21.

a baby born 1000 years ago, or at any point in time for that matter, would have the same chances of having trisomy 21 as would a baby born today.

http://www.lpch.org/DiseaseHealthInfo/HealthLibrary/genetics/downs.html

...of course, you will probably just 'thats what they want you to believe', because, after all, the whole 9-11 movement is based on a conclusion, and then backwardly assembling or discarding facts to justify that conclusion.

Nope. John Birch was a fascist.

ha ha ha !

Boy you are right, Chris..... A little paranoia there?

Conspiracy theories are fun right up until someone becomes paranoid and begins to believe them. Let's try a LOT paranoid. Evil spells cast out of television? Duuude! Someone needs to run, not walk, to his nearest mental health counselor before he hurts himself or others.

What? Bombs explode.

Just where do you get this bit of wisdom? Have you been there, done that? I have. Five different times on convoy runs I have seen or been caught in the blast of an IED. Do you think we have a "beeper" in the vehicles that shout out "Danger, Will Robinson!" within 100 meters of these devices? No, its the perserverence of the soldiers, being aware of your surroundings, and looking for anything out of place. And just when you have the Method of Operation (MO) figured out, the enemy changes how they are setting and detonating the IED's. Go somewhere else and talk about something you may know about. Your blaming a father and son for their injuries has no place in this forum.

And how will you stop all these wars? Read the Bible.

You don't get it. These men didn't ask to go to war to get hurt. They signed on to get hired as soldiers to do whatever they are told which includes protecting your way of life. They don't pick and choose their missions. Young men and women die everyday for nothing- car wrecks-disease-aids-gangs etc. These men were injured doing something important " being soldiers protecting americans". You don't like it because you can't comprehend the fact that a total stranger would do something for you. You don't know Marines. They expect combat, pain is a reality, and belive me, they have spirit, and so do most Americans. America truly is an exceptional nation because of our volunteer forces that protect our way of life.

I know they did. I've seen them. It's still very sad to me, very sad, because VA benefits are being cut, these soldiers are dying and being hurt for nothing and the grind continues without cease. Where will it end? The President of Afghanistan said he needs us there for another fifty years!
50 years! For what? To have two or three generation of people robbed of their lives, their bodies and minds for him? He's a dictator and a crook. They deserve none of our soldiers' blood. They deserve nothing. They hide the Taliban, hell, in many cases we train them and they actually ARE the Taliban.
What are we doing there? What are we doing in Iraq? Fighting for freedom? Whose freedom? Against what? Where?
Do something hard thinking. It's all about establishing American Empire and it's not for you and me; it's for Corporate USA. That's it. I'm telling it straight.

i absolutely agree anthony

Whose freedom?

Why, the Shi'a and the Kurds, for starters.

It's about guns,oil and money. Think Cheney and Halliburton, etc. War is big business and what better way to boost the economy? That's what Roosevelt knew and why he ignored intelligence about a possible attack on Pearl Harbor, with the exception of moving some of the ships out to sea. Back then we needed something, anything to jumpstart industry and put people back to work. That same argument doesn't hold water today. Bush lied about WMD because he didn't check his FACTS. That's what makes it a lie. He took the word of a man who'd been lying to this country about everything else. The lie was promulgated into a much bigger lie that has ultimately caused the deaths of thousands of our finest men and women. Put in a much smaller context, if I were to lie and tell someone something that caused someone else to be hurt or die I would be tried as an accessory to some sort of crime.

As sad as Anthony's commentary is, I have to say that I agree with him. America has chosen to engage in these wars for all the wrong reasons including, keeping its hands on the pulse of their governmental leaders if not controlling them altogether, to dig in for the purpose of maintaining control over the resources in those countries, to keep the military machine well oiled and profitable for the businesses supporting it and, in general, to continue to try and police the world to the extend that it can. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will drag on until time indefinite, at least to some degree. Pulling out of those areas altogether isn't an option if control is to be maintained in some form or fashion.

I find it tragic that these two gentlemen and others like them are suffering so and for no reason that is truly necessary or even remotely patriotic. Furthermore, the medical and psychological care they need through the VA and other programs is woefully lacking in terms of funding and quality of care. I find it reprehensible that we cannot find a way to support improvement of these programs by cutting unnecessary military costs and expenditures. Rather, the Republican majority now wants to steal from our Veterans and from other hungry, sick, jobless and hurting Americans by cutting programs designed to help them along during difficult times with high unemployment, ungodly #s of home foreclosures, etc., at the hands of predatory banks, lending institutions and shoddy investment cats who thought nothing of taking everything for themselves and lying to their investors.

America and her citizens are facing a proverbial @#$%storm and all the goons in Washington can think about is how they can make it even worse.

End these non-productive and wholly unnecessary wars now, bring our precious military personnel home, and let's start paying attention to the needs of our own populace. Any other plan spells doom for the American way of life. Let the kids in the sandpit fight it out for themselves. What part of "We don't want you here!" fails to resonate with Washington? WE are part of THEIR PROBLEM! If they want to continue infighting tribe against tribe or religious sect against religious sect, let 'em have at it. They've been going at it for centuries now, so, quite apparently, THEY LIKES IT LIKE THAT!

Calling Downs Syndrome and Autism "natural occurences" doesn't sit well with me. There's nothing natural about a chromosonal hicup. It is an anomoly at best and a an abnormality at worst. It is only because of the modernization of medical prenatal care that women are able to carry these fetus' full term. It would be more "natural" for the body to reject and spontaneously abort a malformed or abnormal fetus. I'm not saying the children born with these anomolies/abnormalities cannot be productive, or that they're any less loved or lovable that children born without these abnormalities. I have a nephew who is Autistic, and he is nothing short of a wonderful blessing to our family and he is deeply loved. We just need to face the truth about the natural selection process and the results of interferring with it.

The father probably gets both 100% VA disability (non-taxable) and his military retirement if he served for at least 20 years. It's called concurrent receipt (now CRDP), and is well-deserved.

Unfortunately, the son didn't serve at least 20 years, but he is probably receiving 100% VA disability tax-free. He certainly deserves it.

Both may also receive Social Security Disability benefits (SSDI), which are taxable. Their spouses and children are eligible for a free college education, and other benefits exist which they can apply for if appropriate.

The son is still serving in the reserve, so he may yet see the CRDP.

I hope that they get everything that they are entitled to receive.

Wrifford--Independently minded American allowed to voice my opinions. And they are opinions, remember that. That's one thing you absolutists fail to appreciate. You only know how to insult. I insult no one, but you obviously have nothing else to lend to the discussion but you perceived insults. They fall on deaf ears. And the likes of those such as you, will never take my right to voice that opinion away. You think there are people dying over-seas for freedom? They are dying for nothing, but I would most certainly take a bullet for my right to SAY. Hey, I saw people like this--had to see them at a VA where I worked every day. It was horrible. And I oppose it with the last fiber of my being. Calling me names and insults will never change that. No threats, no actions against me, nothing.
Therefore, you lose.

lol good for u sweetie, let no idiot talk you down!!!!!! besides i don't think he knew half the vocabulary you were using lol

I must disagree, Anthony. Though you have every right to your opinion, and you'll find me the last among men who would ever deny you the right to free speech, I feel that freedom is an important virtue to be fought for in all corners of this earth. The Shi'a and the Kurds of Iraq are able to vote for their representatives for the first time in the brutal history of that country. In Afghanistan, the people courageously braved the threat of Taliban retribution to ink their forefinger and vote. You may not think much of this, you may see the corruption and deride the "corporations" for some perceived villainy at work-- but to these people, they risk their lives to taste the freedom you so wantonly take for granted. To have it your way, you would bring our armies home and submit the people of Afghanistan to the tyranny and slavery of the Taliban, ignoring the fact that millions of Afghanis defied the Taliban to vote in free elections (though their fairness is questioned, and rightly so-- after all, "It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." - Ben Franklin). To willfully ignore the freedom that we, America, the shining beacon upon the hill (to use an old conceit), are bringing to these people is to suggest that all our blood spilled this last decade is for naught. I, for one, will not claim that disgraceful dishonor upon our soldiers. We are right to fight terrorism in all its forms wherever its shadow may seep into the hearts of men. We are right to defend the poor, the uneducated, the voiceless from the menace of ideological slavery.

You may see no worth in the wars we fight, but that is because you fail to see at all.

Wrifford , your being willing to "take a bullet for my right to SAY"is expected of most free people. But the willingness to defend to the death your "right to SAY" by men who will never know you , is what a soldier does.

It is not the responsibility of this country to be the world police. Contrary to what you might think, WMG, those people don't want us there. They don't want our immoral society imposing itself on them. That's why they take our money and train the Taliban fighters, or at least the ones we aren't training ourselves. Far too many of those guys are posers who take what they learn from us and turn it around to use against our troops. I've got a kid over there and I know quite a few members of the Oregon National Guard. Not one person I spoke with said they felt welcome by the peoples of those countries when they deployed. The rest of the world despises us for our imperialistic attitude and our arrogance. If you'll recall, Great Britain was the ONLY ally to support the decision to go to war and Tony Blair was crucified for it. In other words, we were the only ones who thought it was a good idea. Bush Sr wrote a nine hundred page book on all the reasons why he didn't pursue Saddam any further. Bush Jr has such serious daddy angst that he felt the need to prove himself and he failed miserably. Daddy said it would become another Viet Nam but Junior never went so he didn't understand the significance of what he was doing when he chose to invade.

Heather-- so all those cheering Shia that ripped down the statue of Saddam, they were so much happier under his boot?

Unfortunately, yes. This isn't just a war, WMG, this is an attempt to also change a culture into our image. Start messing with that and people begin to take exception. We hear about our own war dead but very little is mentioned about civilian casualties. Those numbers are astronomically and disproportionately high, especially when you take into consideration how many died while they were going about their daily business. All those suicide bombers would be out of a job if we'd leave, now wouldn't they? As an aside, have you watched the movie Brothers with Toby Maguire and Jake Gyllenhal? It's a must watch for any one who is commenting on this site. Get back to me after you watch it.

Exactly and at the VA, where I worked, they had to bring in at least two or three new TBI screeners every week to off-set the sheer numbers of people coming through with symptoms. It's usually caused by an explosion that causes the brain to hit one side of the inside of the skull very hard. The results can be as mild as a little hearing loose to complete disability to include inability to move limbs, no sight, cognitive impairment, seizures (that's a very big one) and someone violent outburst for no apparent reason. It's bad, folks, real bad. Sure, they signed up for it, but they deserve better than to be thrown into a pit of dogs to be eaten alive ---and for what???

I suffered multiple TBI's when I was younger. They didn't really manifest until I developed an immune disorder. I took up yoga and meditation which really helped a lot. Somewhere else on the Vine I saw an article regarding TBI and PTSD and how meditation helps the brain rewire itself. I had no clue what I was doing at the time but looking back I can see where it helped. Since you work for the VA you might be able to somehow promote the idea.

I agree 1,000,000,000%.

bottom of their feet? What was that story about?

NO. They deserve to fight a fight that benefits their country; these wars DO NOT !

We always support our troops, maybe not the wars.

My Dad, now gone, ex-Navy (WWII), American Legion member, went to his best friend's father to personally notify him that his son had died (WWII). That father told my Dad that the reason there is war is that we really do not follow Jesus. Truer words may never have nor since been spoken.

Dont go to CA..Its the worst state and a screwed up one at that..

uhhh, Smead, they live in CA, according to the article. Ginger, do you know if the facility services are covered by VA?