Mental Health Laws vary from state to state. Here is Californias.

http://www.dmh.ca.gov/prop_63/mhsa/docs/Mental_Health_Services_Act_Full_Text.pdf

I completely agree with you. These mental health officials abused their power. IDIOTS! You don't tear a child away from his mother....

Honestly, she might want to reevaluate what the child is doing at home first before blaming the school for anything...especially in this day and age where lawsuits against various types of educational institutions are so prevalent. The school is just protecting itself and this isn't being done for the well being of the child.

On Monday, her 6-year-old son Jack was committed to a psychiatric ward against her wishes after he drew a violent drawing at school and wrote that he wanted to die.

Followed by the mothers response:

"I said he plays video games and it's a picture from a video game."

Remember, the child in question is 6 years old and without knowing all of the specifics, it kind of sounds like he's being raised by the television and a video game console at this point. Or am I the only one who thought it was strange for a 6 year to be playing what may be considered violent video games?

I agree, Sono.. My other thought was that mom may be in denial of how bad sons mental health actually was (I felt like the justification for his drawings could have been that, but it may not have been.. As you said, Violent video games aren't exactly appropriate for 6 year olds). I cant blame her for that, if that is the case..Thats not to say that the school was correct in their actions, no. I wish this would have gone down differently.

Id be interested to know the schools actions prior to making this decision. Was this the first incident like this in which he had done anything to cause concern? If so, why didn't they contact mom first? If not, was their an attempt to work with mom and their personal therapist? I feel terrible for this little boy, and hope he can get what he needs to cope, and that this does not cause more damage. If he has separation anxiety, then I imagine being separated from both of his parents would be terrifying for him.

Really sad to see that a kid or even an adult can't express how they are feeling. so what if he commented that "he sometimes wished he were dead". Maybe he was having a bad day, but it doesn't mean he was going to kill himself.

The school and the hospital all are in the wrong here. I hope she sues their asses off, and the people involved are all fired.

They abused their authority figure by not calling the mother of this child, and watching him while the mother got to the school.

There's an enormous difference between 'I want to die,' and 'I plan to kill myself." Can not a child even expresss a depth of sadness and anger anymore on the eve of his parent's overseas deployment without a violent overreation? This sounds like a child that needed careful counseling and support in the face of famil upheaval, not a traumatic 72hour hold.

What this mostly is an indication of, as I see it, is part and parcel to the standardization of the human experience psychiatry trys to lay on EVERYONE at ANY opportunity.

I wonder just how many of these artist's would be forced into a 72 hour hold.

Or these

I'm not saying the child doesn't need help -but there's a NIGHT AND DAY difference between the kind of help a seven year old needs and a 72 hour psych hold designed as an intervention to an EMINENT VIOLENT EVENT.

The school and the hospital all are in the wrong here. I hope she sues their asses off, and the people involved are all fired.

They abused their authority figure by not calling the mother of this child, and watching him while the mother got to the school.

This kind of thinking is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned earlier that the school was only acting in its own best interest out of fear for potential lawsuits. You have the above line of thinking when the school does take precautions to protect the child, but that person would be saying almost the exact same thing had the school been perceived as not having done enough in the event that the child managed to injur or actually kill himself.

The school can't necessarily win in this kind of situation, but by taking the most extreme precaution, they greatly lessen their liability in the matter and the chances of being sued by the parents later on if the child does hurt himself in some way.

Yes, it wouldn't been nice if they could've just sat the child in a room somewhere until the mother arrived, but again, they have to protect their own interests too and the psych facility is sadly their best option in todays world.

@take2la.....good references. These artists have a lot of talent. Sadly, though, teachers are so brainwashed by that "mandated reporter" @!$%#, that they can't see past all the depression and anger, and see the beauty of the art.
I've always thought that brutal art is the most beautiful, because it exposes the truth....don't commit me though!lol

If you like those, YOU'LL LOVE THESE

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Moviegirl: "You don't tear a child away from his mother...."

Seriously am I in the twilight zone? Hes on a 72 hour hold for observation! Less if he poses no danger. How is that tearing away a child from his mother???? If they said they were going to take him, lock him up and throw away the key, I would agree with you then.

Did MSNBC entice people with low IQ's to post on this story or something?

@dave, imagine if this happened to your child, without the school even TRYING to contact you first. To a mother, that's what it feels like...sure, they aren't literally tearing the child away from her....but still, show some compassion!

I would be happy that they tried to give him help rather then toss it away as a joke.

What people really do keep forgetting(and trust me they forget, read the comments to see how many people blamed the school) is that the school did not call the hospital and say, "Commit this kid." Medical professionals did. The school viewed the situation as serious enough to warrent that a PROFESSIONAL examine the kid. Which is what happened. The kid could have very well been cleared right there and then. But he was not.

And on a side note, it is not up to the parents anyway. They can not stop a medical hold just as much as a parent abusing their child can not stop CPS from taking the child away. Its a moot point.

So many view this as a negative situation. So many were ready to lash out their anger at the school system. Yet, very few viewed this as potentialy a very POSITIVE outcome. Jack has a chance to get more help because he clearly was missing something. If treatment was being sucsessful would you see him getting worse? Of course this will greatly fall on the mom's shoulders on how much effort she is willing to do(Issues like this are not limited to just the one person involved so yes will have to put in a lot of effort). I can only hope she does that and is able to get over her current anger, because right now I am sure the medical professionals that commited her son for observation are not on the top of her list to receive xmas cards next year.

This is not a postive outcome. That poor child is now afraid of his teachers.

Did you not watch the video? His mother clearly said, "He doesn't want to go to school because he's afraid they'll take him away again." Nobody REALLY cared about the child in this situation. All they cared about was covering their ass, and look what happend. That kid is SCARRED FOR LIFE!

My children went through the same thing when their dad deployed last June. I had to take my child out of school for a few days because he was lashing out. He thought if he could get into enough trouble then the school would call home and his dad would be there to pick him up. Kids are not adults, they process things completely different.

Gina and Kat, with the stuff they are showing on the News, I'd be freaking out if my parent went overseas too! Right around the time of one of the really big plane crashes in the 90s, my mom had to fly from Ohio to Indiana for a seminar. I was scared for her to fly. I was older so I didn't do anything extreme, but I did try to beg her not to go and such. Kids get scared. They don't understand maybe statistically you are more likely to die in car that you ride in every day than in a plane. All they know is what they have just seen, and if what they saw was a tragedy - that's what they know. You can't just assume some kid is crazy because their parents are going to War and kids are shown in school and on the news that war means death.

Did he have a weapon? Was he threatening anyone? Was the child's mother unreachable or unwilling to take action to help her child? No, No and No.

Was he threatening anyone?

Well, technically, he stated that he wanted to die. Depending on who is interpreting that, he could be a threat to himself.

I completely agree with you Gina. A governmental agency should not have the authority to tear a child away from his mother in this situation.

I understand your view that what if the school did nothing and something did happen but they contacted the mother and she said she would take him to a therapist and that he had seen one. His father had left that day for Iraq and he just wanted to be home. He is 6 years old, even adults don't sometimes deal with stress the right way. Now the way it was handled the poor boy is traumatized by the thought of even going to school. My husband went to Iraq and left me to care for our 2 month old son and trust me I was a wreck, and I was an adult. If the mother had said she wasn't going to take action and that he would be okay and really did nothing then yes maybe the school was doing the right thing. But she said she would take him to the therapist that day. These blanket rules and policies that leave no room for case by case problems are ruining parenting. The boy is 6 and had a good reason to be upset, I'm sure he didn't mean what he said. He just wanted to go home and instead he was sent to a psych ward, I'm sure that was very helpful.

I completely agree with you Gina. A governmental agency should not have the authority to tear a child away from his mother in this situation.

You know, not everyone is a good parent in this world... and some times a child needs someone to intervene on thier behalf. Thats what happened here, and clearly if this kid is saying he wants to die what his mother is doing for him is not enough. Yes, she should have been contacted before anything else was done but the kid being admitted to the hospital so professionals can look at him is the best possible thing that could have happened to him. You know, if your in the hospital and say your going to kill yourself YOU can be admitted against your will... so why shouldn't a child who clearly has issues be admitted for his own safety?

Everyone saying "Boooo! Bad government!" would probably be the first crowd to be really mad if the school did nothing and the kid threw himself in front of a bus later in the day. Then the crys would be "Bad government! How dare you not do something where there was clearly a problem!". You people just have too much time on your hands, and need to complain about something.

After the mother said she had a therapist, what right did the school have to intervene? It won't be long until they take all our kids away at birth so they can raise them "right". Watch out, we are becoming mother Russia.....

There is no shame is seeking mental help. However, it is inappropriate to force someone into a psych ward when they are not a true threat to himselfor others. The school sent him to the hospital in an ambulance for a 72 hour psych hold. This is a gross over-reaction on the part of the school, especially since his mother was willing to take him to his own counselor. Inexcusable.

How do you know he is not a theat to himself or someone else? Are we supposed to wait until he actually tries to hurt himself or someone else?

Psych evals are for when someone threatens harm to themselves or someone else to determine if it is a REAL threat or not.

They are not as dramatic as people make them seem...and this boy has been under the care of a therapist before which likely contributed to the concern of his making threats on his own life.

Not an overreaction and not only excusable - but commendable actions by the school.

Schools seem less equipped for dealing with boys. A life-long prescription for amphetamines (Ritalin et al) is in store for this boy.

Schools seem less equipped for dealing with boys. A life-long prescription for amphetamines (Ritalin et al) is in store for this boy.

It's not that he is a boy - it's that he draws violent images, says he wants to kill himself, and has been under the care of a therapist before (at his MOTHER'S doing) because of extreme separation anxiety.

Something ain't right with the kid. Not saying he needs meds, but that's not for a school to figure out - they have to recommend he see a doc.

Looking into and following up are one thing, taking a child against their wishes and their parents wishes is kidnapping. Its no different than if you or I were sitting in our homes and someone else had called 911 on our behalf and we were forced to go because someone else thought it was the right thing. There are a lot of children who see therapist and they don't necessarily have "severe" issues. I think mom took a proactive stance to the problem by getting him a therapist. I don't know how much you loved your father but if I was 6 and my dad was going off to war and maybe was never going to come back, the least I would have is separation anxiety.

I don't know how much you loved your father but if I was 6 and my dad was going off to war and maybe was never going to come back, the least I would have is separation anxiety.

The boy was in therapy for separation anxiety BEFORE the father went to war. And there are many children who have parents at war and they do not go around drawing violent pictures and saying they want to die.

Its no different than if you or I were sitting in our homes and someone else had called 911 on our behalf and we were forced to go because someone else thought it was the right thing.

If you are make threats against your life and someone calls the police on you -- they will come to your house and if they agree that you appear to be serious about those threats - they will ask professional to do an evaluation.

That is what happened in this case. Lots of things happen to children that they don't want: they have to go to school, do homework, eat veggies, see their parents go to war...

Just because he got upset about it does not mean it was the wrong decision for him.

It's not kidnapping because the mother was told where he was and that he would be released after the evaluation (which is 2 hrs MAX).

weRdoomed: You said it yourself "If you are make threats against your life and someone calls the police on you -- they will come to your house and if they agree that you appear to be serious about those threats - they will ask professional to do an evaluation."

You do understand what you wrote there is not what was done in this situation, right? No police were called, no one Contacted his parents, No Professional was brought in to make that judgement.. they just put the kid away..

And The kid was under a 72 hour evaluation (Only stayed for 42 hrs) That seems a lot longer then a 2hr MAX evaluation.

SK - CAN YOU NOT READ!

"School officials at Taper Avenue Elementary in San Pedro were so concerned, they called a Los Angeles County psychiatric mobile response team, which determined Jack needed to be committed to a 72-hour psychiatric hold at a local hospital"

People will read your comment and assume you actually read the article. Congrats on spreading wrong information.

what dave-2000818 said.

I am not surprised by the reactions on the thread. Reason is out the window in our society - damned if you do, damned if you don't is the norm. People LOVE to complain:

the school shouldn't have done anything! the school did too much!

I'm surprised anyone bothers attempting to teach our youth at all anymore with the lack of gratitude given by the public towards education. We all know exactly what the situation would have been if this child had said and done what he did - the school said "oh, he's just upset about his dad" - and then he ended up hurting someone or himself:

"What kind of irresponsible school is this? They are supposed to protect our children! I guess they couldn't be bothered to make any effort!"

They may very well have thwarted something horrible, but happening...

but never mind that.

The child did not say "I want to kill myself." The child said "I want to die." There is a big difference. This is a six year old, not an adult. The child was scared because his father was leaving for war, and was expressing his fear. The school followed protocol, and I can certainly understand that. My reaction, however, is that the protocol needs to be changed.

The child's mother should absolutely have the right to take the child to a therapist rather than have the school TAKE the child (and that is what the school did here) to a psychiatric ward for 72 hours to doctors who have zero clue about the child's mental health history.

I do not blame the school for following protocol, but the protocol needs to be changed.

The child did not say "I want to kill myself." The child said "I want to die." This is a six year old, not an adult.

So many of you keep wanting to argue this point yet fail pay attention to what you're really saying. "He is a six year old, not an adult" EXACTLY!!! How many six year olds have you ever heard say "I'm going to kill myself"? I want to die is a six year olds way of saying I'm going to (I want to) kill myself.

Also, if the boys father had just left for Iraq that day and he has a history of separation anexiety why would his mother send him to school in the first place? With his history this would have probably been a good day to have already had a scheduled appointment with his therapist lined up instead of sending him to school. I'm sure the school would have seen this to be an excusable absence.

RV in GB: "The child's mother should absolutely have the right to take the child to a therapist rather than have the school TAKE the child (and that is what the school did here) to a psychiatric ward for 72 hours to doctors who have zero clue about the child's mental health history."

Im guessing you live in a RV, and quite frankly, from you comment, I understand that. First off:

"School officials at Taper Avenue Elementary in San Pedro were so concerned, they called a Los Angeles County psychiatric mobile response team, which determined Jack needed to be committed to a 72-hour psychiatric hold at a local hospital."

So congrats of having a reading comprehension level of a 6yr old.

Secondly: About taking him to doctors who have zero knowledge of his mental history. Um, that is what those doctors do. DO you really think this is the first 6yr old or adult who has been put under one of these? Should the entire rule be changed and people who try to kill themselves, threaten themselves or others have an option to be asked, "well if you have another doctor and make a pinky swear promise not to kill yourself or anyone else and make an appointment today, we can let you go"

On a side note, that therapist can be a part of his treatment in the 72 hour hold, the doctors there can consult with them, the therapist can visit the 6yr, etc.

dave, you have been very annoying on this thread. Do you work for this school? Are you one of the doctors that treated him? And don't question another person's reading comprehension when you can't even capitalize your own name.

"dave, you have been very annoying on this thread." -Because I use logic as opposed to raw emotion and personal opinions to express my thoughts?

Do you work for this school? - Nope, not this school nor any other.

"Are you one of the doctors that treated him?" - Nope, nor am I am MD, RN, or any other position in the medical field.

" And don't question another person's reading comprehension when you can't even capitalize your own name." - Well I will point to the first part of your post. "dave, you have been ". So I guess you suffer from the same thing. But that would actually not really be reading comprehension on my part, more of writting ability. Reading comprehension is the ability to take a peice of writting and understand the words in it and the meaning of the writting. Something that nearly half the posters here failed to do. Yet, I will be honest I think that is less to do with their reading comprehension and more with the hate filled inside of them to lash out at something they feel was an injustice without thinking about it.

I actually like to type user names as the user has them spelled regardless of my spelling and grammar abilities/opinions, so nice try there.

But why do you need to repeatedly try to prove people wrong? Comment the same damn comment on every single person's comment that you don't agree with. Make your own comment by its self and just let people read it as they come across it. So some people are expressing outrage from emotion, why do you feel the need to come in here with your "facts." You're not going to influence anyone, people think what they want to think.

Its not that I disagree with it. It is the facts. The comment people are stating is so off from the truth, that it in many incases invalidates the statements they make. Saying the school commited him is not nit picking. If the title was, "School commits student to 72-hour hold" that would be an out right lie. Again nearly everyone is bashing the wrong people. Its like blamming the dummy instead of the ventriloquist.

I feel a need to comment on them because the facts they are basing their opinon off of is wrong. If you say 1+1=10 and base an opinion off of that, you bet I will tell you 1+1 is not equal to 10.

I am not going to convince you, but I am willing to bet I caused many people to go back and re-read the article. Their opinion may change or may not. I am also not forcing people to believe what I feel. In fact go and look at all my comments. I have never said that the protocals in place are 100% correct and we should just sit down and shutup. But no one can make a valid opinion/argument(which is what people are doing when they post here) WITHOUT correct facts.

Television shows, commercials, trailers for upcoming shows are all placed within all networks and MOST are not appropriate for most children. Some video games are completely inappropriate for any person, much less a 6 year old. That being said, SPONGEBOB has technically "violent" acts of limbs being torn off, etc. Our society is FLOODED with it. The article didn't say the 6 yearold was playing Mortal Kombat, she said a "video game". Those parameters are very broad. Military kids (especially younger children) role play the soldier in their family. There is a fine line between pride and aggression. Especially when considering the intense stress of having a parent in a war zone. The children understand that some never come home again. That is a lot for any 6 year old to handle. We failed another miliary family who could have used help, not more heartache.

I agree. My husband was in Iraq and he loves being a soldier. He plays all these war games on the WII like call of duty and our son loves to watch dad play the fighting games and kill the bad guys. He knows its a game but he also knows that daddy is a soldier and he wants to be just like him. Do I think the game is appropriate for him to play, no, but I talk to my son and let him know its just a game and he is too young to be talking about killing people. I don't let him play the game and my husband rarely lets him watch him while he is playing it but we talk to our son and let him know he can't do or say any of those things that he sees on the game.

Well said.

You must have ignored the piece of the article that reported he wrote that he wanted to kill himself. This is the only reason for any auto hold... and a very good reason it is. Unless, perhaps, you advocate freedom for parents letting children kill themselves?

psychiatrists have the power to hold someone for 72hr without a court intervening. and weekends and holidays dont count toward that 72hr. so lock up on friday, you dont get out til wednesday. i fought this as an rn for years at a VA hospital to no avail. and its sad that this child whose mother was already getting help for him, was locked up but the shooter in arizona was allowed to roam the streets even after law enforcement were involved and the cxollege he was attending told him he could not come back without having had psychiatric help.

OneMom: I couldn't agree with you more. The child's behavior should definitely raise concerns, but there are other, less aggressive measures that could have been taken as you suggested.

Clinpsych: He didn't say he wanted to kill himself or that he was going to, he said he wanted to die. There is a difference.

It seems that the school officials may not have taken the child's best interest into consideration. There are other ways of helping a child cope with signs of depression than to ship them off to a psych ward. I doubt the school would be ridiculed for suggesting a counseling session between the boy, his mother, his therapist, and teacher. Perhaps the school was more concerned with the possible ramifications of not taking extreme measures in the situation than with the child's best interest.

AJ: is there a difference? Was he to therefore seek deliberate homicide (even if this isn't actual suicide?) You are speaking of those who charge police because they can't pull the trigger vs those who pull the trigger on police to die. Not a very big difference at all.

As I've already said, schools are simply required to report incidents to others... school officials cannot initiate any mandatory hold.

Im not sure if this scenario is an example of intrusive, abusive and wanton disregard that the 'mental health profession has for the human race...It was the schools decision. Typically people are brought to psychiatric facilities... As I mentioned before, the laws vary from state to state. So, if by law the school is allowed to forcibly admit someone into psychiatric care against someones will, the mental health facility has not choice but to comply, by law.

If anything the school should have communicated with mom better. I cant tell by this article if the boy was really in need of psychiatric care or if the school abused its authority. Maybe they tried to communicate with mom and she failed to do anything.. Theres not a lot of info from the article.

if by law the school is allowed to forcibly admit someone into psychiatric care against someones will, the mental health facility has not choice but to comply, by law.

I guarantee you, ANY of the aforementioned laws were put forth and sponsored by the APA (the legislative lobby for the psychiatric industry)

Just as mandatory auto insurance laws were put forth and sponsored by trial lawyers and the insurance industry.

The ONLY interest the psychiatric industry has in 'helping people' is separating them from their money. And they don't have ANY regard for the age of the "patient"

You seem to feel really strongly about this, and it makes me curious.

Do you see any benefits in the psychiatric community?

If yes, what aspects?

If no, what are your suggestions concerning individuals who are a threat to themselves and/or others?

Also, the people who are making the laws are not the ones providing the care. Nurses, Mental Health Technicians, and the Doctors ... What are their motives?

I am curious about your thoughts on the matter and would like to know more. Thanks in advance.

Here's what I see-

An industry RIFE with conflicts of interest from shilling for the pharma industry handing out drugs which only sedate with DANGEROUS, and violent results and untested long term side-effects. Often "Practiced" by individuals whose ethics are questionable at best and down-right CRIMINAL in many instances. Such as the linked story of the child from Long Beach.

And he ISN'T the only case of the psychiatric industry circumventing parental "CONSENT" by acting under the guise of "emergency indications".

I've been to HALF A DOZEN protests in the last 2 years.

And that doesn't take into consideration the children who have been PREYED upon as a result of the foster care system.

I don't have one modicum of respect for an industry whose majority market share is made off the backs of children.

take2la

Ill take that as a 'no'

As someone who was raped by a doctor while under that doctor's "care," I tend to me skeptical of the entire medical profession as a whole. I would probably have gotten violent if someone had removed my child from school and sent him to a medical facility without my accompanying him the entire trip (assuming I was able to be reached, as the mother in this article was).

reply to Hallen94: Actually it wasn't the school's decision-read the article carefully-the school called a mental health team who evaluated him and then made the decision to place him under a 72 hour hold.

Leon,

Thanks, but thats not what I was talking about. Sorry it came out unclear.

Every state has different mental health laws in place.. In some states only family members or law enforcement can even request a psych eval. Some states also allow schools or neighbors. Florida for example, has the Baker Act. This would not have been allowed in Florida because only family or law enforcement can request that and only if they feel you are a threat to yourself or others.. However, If this had happened in Arizona, its within the law for the school to request. Thats all. Im talking about who has the right to request the eval, not who made the decision to have him held for 72 hours

The child wrote he wanted to kill himself. Despite rampant rumors, the only reason for an involuntary hold is abundant evidence that one wishes to harm his/herself or society. If he wrote it... he is held. Period.

The child wrote he wanted to kill himself. Despite rampant rumors, the only reason for an involuntary hold is abundant evidence that one wishes to harm his/herself or society. If he wrote it... he is held. Period.

You'll also notice from the article that the facility chose to release the child after only 48 hours.

I guarantee you this was due to wide spread media coverage and the OUTRAGE in the community. All the other cases I've protested recently had NO MEDIA COVERAGE and went to 2 weeks forced incarceration and ONLY after being contacted by lawyers were the children released.

If allowed to "practice" their brand of treatment unchecked, the psychiatric industry will push their "treatment" on ANYONE, without regard for ethics or professional decorum.

There isn't ANY demographic group which would be excluded.

Wait, there might be one group, individuals and relatives of the practitioners themselves. I DOUBT they would stand for forced incarceration of their own children.

And not incidentally, in EVERY similar case I've protested in the last TWO YEARS the child and parents have been working class families or from "disadvantaged" neighborhoods.

WHY would this be pertinent, you might ask?

Because the parents either aren't reachable or can't leave work in time to head off the "emergency response team' taking their kid from the school.

@hallen94. those who are a threat to others should be locked up, not drugged and put back on the streets. the side effects of psych drugs will eventually cause the patient to stop meds and revert to their violent baseline. there is no cure. its all big money for doctors and drug companies. and i believe by the story the school called the psych unit and got them involved. why not call the parents. the psych unit are the ones who do the 72 hr hold not the school. had a psych unit in a hospital i worked at and it was a big farse. same repeat customers month after month. patients would order narcotics from a local pharmacy and have them delivered to their room in the psych ward.

Parents CAN have a durable power of attorney for health care enforced EVERYWHERE so schools are legally bound to notify them first before taking ANY medical actions WHATSOEVER.

@hallen94. those who are a threat to others should be locked up, not drugged and put back on the streets.

And what about those who are a threat to themselves?

the side effects of psych drugs will eventually cause the patient to stop meds and revert to their violent baseline. there is no cure.

You'd better be able to back that statement up. The most common cause of patients skipping their meds is because they think they are better and 'do not need them anymore'. They are not. They are better because of the meds. *sigh*

Take2la, here is your BS flag. No such thing as a 2 week hold. Keep making things up. Meanwhile... back pedal when young children actually kill themselves. Congratulations.

I never said they were on a "2 week hold". I said they were held for 2 weeks.

You know full well that if at the end of 72 hours an "assessment" is applied and the option to hold further is a choice. Nice try to spin though. Keep trying.

BTW- in every case I mentioned, once contacted by a lawyer for each child's family the hold was miraculously lifted. AH, amazing how quickly one changes his story when confronted by a mal-practice lawsuit.

No it isn't take2la. You are simply a liar. Keep trying yourself.

You expect anyone to believe a lawyer even does anything within 72 hours?

Another absolute lie. Please learn what you are even babbling about.

Yeah, oops you got got me, I made all this up-take2la

fabricated out of my over 3 years research on the Vine and over 500 articles and seeds.

Kinda like the APA and the DSM -FABRICATED

What research is this? I call you a fool and you have no backup. Provide it or keep the label. Bring it.

Research on psycho/pharma SPIN ( including yours, clinpsych) Keep it up

Psycho: You just made the list, buddy. And I don't like nobody touching my stuff. So just keep your meat-hooks off.

Stripes 1981

Now you do it twice. I say what research, and you still didn't say. Congrats. My label doubly appears to apply. Or... perhaps you'd care to supply some this time? You think? Do you even know what actual research looks like? Hmmm....

Here's a hint clinpsych

I AM MOCKING YOU AND YOUR PROFESSION AT ANY OPPORTUNITY

You simply saying, "What research" carries about as much weight as your opinion to ANY of your clients or the APA's ADVERTISING disguised as news articles. Alot of hot air.

I quite simply DON'T CARE what your opinion is. Of me or anything else.

You've been given the link to over 500 articles and seeds.

If you choose to spin it and call me names (or "labels"- as your profession is known for) you are proving my point to a "T".

Clinpsych - When you use the word research to an ignorant person, its like offering a computer to a caveman. They just get confused by it and will more than likely smash it up while grunting incoherently.

Fyi, take2la, research is generally attributed to peer reviewed journals, not article written by journalist. Just because the names sound familiar, does not mean they have the same meaning.

Oh, right, you MUST mean this type of "peer reviewed journals'' research

Top 50 Psychiatrists Paid By Pharma

Drug Maker Wrote Book Under 2 Doctors' Names, Documents Say

American Psychiatric Association's Conflicts of Interest

resulting in this type of "science" and "treatment"

...Obscene Profitability of Antidepressants in America

Antipsychotic drug prescriptions triple in the US

One Million Kids on Anti-Psychotics

Doctors draw payments fromdrug companies-search for your doctor

Wow-I have so much more respect for your "peer reviewed journals" and "studies".

Wow, take2la, I did not think you could amaze me any more than you already have. I would take the time to explain peer reviewed journals to you, but um...The voices in your head will just keep shouting, "THEY ARE LIEING TO YOU"

Keep tryin', you ain't the first and you ain't gonna be the last.

#SPINDOCTORS

Lol... you are right Dave, look at the flurry of google link replies. Of course... one COULD use googlescholar links. I'd assume that one would have to actually absorb any article found to even tell if it seems helpful to link though.

One final thought, then I'm done with you.

If the way you've dealt with me and others on this thread is any indication of your "bedside manner", you've proved yourself(ves) to be the exact type of unprofessional, unethical, selfserving clinpsych's I will spend my last breath exposing for the charlatans, frauds and quacks they are. BYE BYE

Perhaps fill your last breath with a shred of evidence then... otherwise, what good is it?

Thanks for sharing. Hope mom gets this sorted out soon.

Thank you for sharing that. I hope this mom takes action against these idiots and I fully support her. Why would anyone send their child back to an environment like that? AND why would a child want to express their feelings now without fear of being torn away from their family? I am so furious that this happened to this child.

If he says he wants to die, by definition, he is suicidal.

And separation anxiety is a mental disorder.

Weren't people just complaining that the community college in the Arizona shooting did not do enough?

A school can't send your son to a psych hospital. The hospital would have to choose to admit him.

It's kind of scary that you are more angry at the school than worried about why your son was basically committed.

If you didn't notice trouble at home, that worries me even more.

Liz: So let's just commit everyone without reason or warrant. Obviously, you should be more concerned about the (false) accusation of mental instability than the fact that the school abused its power. Also, the article states that the child was already receiving counseling, showing the mother recognized the child needed a little extra help to cope with the challenging situation he seems to be facing. The child's mother should have been contacted, and the child should have been seen by the therapist he was (hopefully) already comfortable with and had a trusting relationship with. He should not have been forcibly transferred to a hospital by ambulance without his mother present. This was not an emergency.

Gina, it isn't even a school decision... it's a matter of schools having to disclose information (such as writing about killing yourself... which the child did). If you are suicidal, you are held. In fact... it's usually 72 hours, so the child was actually let out early. There was no false accusation... the child wrote it.

Would it make you all warm and fuzzy if children WEREN'T held and then killed themselves?

Clinpsych: A couple years ago early elementary age kids were being expelled from school because they pointed their fingers at each other and said, "bang." Another kid (kindergartener, I believe) was expelled for kissing a little girl on the cheek. We don't want guns in schools, we don't want sexual harassment in schools, and we don't want children committing suicide. The two examples here and the case described in these article are all OVER-REACTIONS. Common sense was not used. Period.

schools are just scared of law suits by parents of perfect children. the hospital overreacted. and the school should have called the mother first. people in the USA still hsve a choice of which practioner they want to be treated by. this same type of thing happens in medical hospitals. took my grandchild to the er for an asthma attack 4 yrs old. i was locked out of the ER and told if i didnt conform to their rules i would bhe escorted off hospital grounds. this was a 4 yr old who was scared to death. i do not trust any hospital. always keep someone qwith you to help make decisions.

@Deborah-they didn't even bother to give you a reason at all? Sounds like meddling to me. Teachers and doctors need to be SEPARATED, because of bogus overreacting, and bull@!$%# like this.

Sundayvalley, you provided an example of a school decision to rebut what I said wasn't a school decision in the first place. What was your point?

I agree and believe that.

Really? What exactly was a 6 year old going to do to kill himself? Shove a crayon through his eyeball? As adults they couldn't supervise the child in a safe manner until the mother could come pick the child up? SIX YEARS OLD. Read that again. Not a 16 year old, who could potentially harm themselves or others. A 6 year old. This is absurd.

Fin- see 17.1

I agree with you, but it does happen.

Fin, it doesn't matter. At least, not unless you think a wildly shocking 6 year old story is published as a prerequisite for preventative action. He wrote he wanted to kill himself. That's pretty much where it ends. Are you saying you want it to end even worse?

If this story is true, my sincere condolences...

However, someone claiming to be suicidal is supposed to be on suicide watch, making a rape patently impossible.

The facility I used to work for (now closed) a number of things happened on the unit that never should have.

In my time there...

A doctor was stabbed with a pencil in the chest.

Suicide in client closet.

Clients had consensual sex

Clients hid contraband and later smoked crack.

Clients went AWOL.

For the record, this facility is closed.

ClinPsych, I bet all doctors always follow protocol, right? There's never, ever a case where an inpatient is vulnerable to attack by other inpatients or even the doctor/nurse himself. How silly to not blindly trust all medical professionals.

cNancy from Long Beach - I am so sorry about what happened to your daughter. My son too was placed on a 72 hour hold by the county. There is no common sense today. I left work and was there with my son, but the county officials INSISTED that he had to see a doctor that night, INSISTED THAT HE HAD TO BE TAKEN BY AMBULANCE, but instead of being allowed to take him to see someone locally he was sent to facility 45 miles away. He was placed in group therapy BEFORE he was seen by a doctor, the next afternoon.

I was there and my son and I were cooperating, but we had no rights.

If the parent is there and is ready and willing to follow up to make sure child is OK, it should not be taken out of their hands.

What scared me the most was hearing from the the county workers "Oh, you have great insurance"

Don't forget, the bills are sent to the parents. I may have "great insurance", but it isn't free.

Childhood is SUPPOSED to be a time to learn. But children are not allowed to learn. This zero tolerance is for the birds. There really is no concern for the children, it's just the agencies covering their asses at the expense of the children.

@NancyFromLongBeach, that's terrible. Did you ever get justice for the rape? I sure hope so.

And I agree. I was on a psych ward, and it was traumatizing...whenever I would nod off from the damn meds, the nurses would SCREAM, "WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!" So I eventually sat in the corner pretending to read and closing my eyes. That was the little rest I got. I got fat from the drugs. One of them, Risperdal caused me to stutter so severely I couldn't talk. I couldn't write. For Christ's sake, Risperdal is an anticonvulsant, I don't have any @!$%#ing seizure disorders! After I got out I was eventually just on Lithium and Abilfiy. Numbness to any emotion...and that was on a good day. The Lithium caused me to drink and pee so much, that I got a UTI infection. Thankfully I'm off these meds. Don't let them take your kids.

And for those parents who have "problem children" or a "troubled teen" (convienient labels, huh?*sarcasm*) DO NOT send your child to these places(any kind of psychiatric unit at all). They will not come back the same. Your son will no longer be your son. Your daughter will no longer be your daughter. Step up and parent instead of resorting to STRANGERS. The first poster's story, and this news story included should be proof enough of how horrible doctors can be...teachers too, if you're not careful.

Isis, I am sad to hear you had a horrible experience.

And for those parents who have "problem children" or a "troubled teen" (convienient labels, huh?*sarcasm*) DO NOT send your child to these places(any kind of psychiatric unit at all).

I can't agree with this statement. Not all psychiatric care ends up the way your experience did. Some people do actually need medication and therapy to help them lead normal lives. Advising people who have legitimate concerns about their children to not seek clinical help when their children are at risk is very irresponsible and could mean the difference between life and death.

Step up and parent instead of resorting to STRANGERS.

Unless you've had a child who has been suicidal or homicidal, your opinion is mute. Many people do not know how to address issues of mental health, which is why they should seek a possessional. Sometimes when parents "step up" and try to address these problems themselves, they end up becoming enablers to their psychosis.

Sunvalley, again you didn't respond to what I actually said. Care to?

@Hallen, thank you for the sympathy. I am off meds and doing fine. Don't trust doctors, though...oh well.

But, after going through that, I started doing all kinds of research about the psychiatric industry. You would not believe how many stories I've read, where a parent actually decided to send the kid to a psychiatric hospital, and they came back completely traumatized. Go to SnipeMe.com, and read the 2004 guest rant, titled Asylums...maybe you'll see my point.

Some people DO need meds, but it's gotten way out of hand. You've got to admit, that so many people (teachers, doctors, even parents) nowadays, tend to look for a quick fix....why do you think there are so many people on psych drugs? I'll bet half of them would do fine without them. Do these people searching for a quick fix even bother to try other options first? More often than not, no.

It is not irresponsible...define at risk. I say you're child is only at risk if their EXTREMELY withdrawn, self harming, and have attempted suicide...but a lot of the things that get kids drugged is NORMAL TEENAGE REBELLION. It's rediculous. Take sex for instance....your kid is ONLY "at risk" as you like to say, if they're engaging in UNprotected sex.

Before I rant any further, I should say, that hospitalizing a child should be the LAST and most extreme option...sadly it isn't, and you should know that isn't okay AT ALL/

It isn't the school's decision per se. Just like they have to report a child claiming to be abused to the proper authorities, they have to report a child claiming to be suicidal to the proper authorities. Claiming to be suicidal is an automatic hold... for very good reason.

He never claimed to be suicidal. I many times as a child said "I wanted to die." But never said "I am going to kill myself." There is a difference. I have no ambition to kill myself, then or now. He is in a crappy situation for a kid - it's only natural to feel like that when you are seeing images of war on TV knowing your father is going in to that. He has his mother and a therapist helping him. Up until Columbine kids constantly drew violent or disturbing pictures or said "I"m going to kill you!" to a classmate without anyone even shifting a glance at them. Now everything is a huge deal.

Yes, he did. Did you even read the article?

PGH - Up until Columbine kids constantly drew violent or disturbing pictures or said "I"m going to kill you!" to a classmate without anyone even shifting a glance at them. Now everything is a huge deal.

Thats because it is a huge deal. Columbine was not the last school shooting. Here are a few school shootings since Columbine.

April 28, 1999 Taber, Alberta, Canada One student killed, one wounded at W. R. Myers High School in first fatal high school shooting in Canada in 20 years. The suspect, a 14-year-old boy, had dropped out of school after he was severely ostracized by his classmates.

May 20, 1999 Conyers, Ga.Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.

Nov. 19, 1999 Deming, N.M. Victor Cordova Jr., 12, shot and killed Araceli Tena, 13, in the lobby of Deming Middle School.

Dec. 6, 1999 Fort Gibson, Okla. Four students wounded as Seth Trickey, 13, opened fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun at Fort Gibson Middle School.

Dec. 7, 1999 Veghel, Netherlands One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.

I would like everyone to pay special attention to this next one.

Feb. 29, 2000 Mount Morris Township, Mich. Six-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant was identified as a six-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun.

March 2000 Branneburg, GermanyOne teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.

March 10, 2000 Savannah, Ga.Two students killed by Darrell Ingram, 19, while leaving a dance sponsored by Beach High School.

May 26, 2000 Lake Worth, Fla.One teacher, Barry Grunow, shot and killed at Lake Worth Middle School by Nate Brazill, 13, with .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol on the last day of classes.

Sept. 26, 2000 New Orleans, La.Two students wounded with the same gun during a fight at Woodson Middle School.

Jan. 17, 2001 Baltimore, Md.One student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School.

Jan. 18, 2001 Jan, Sweden One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.March 5, 2001

I stopped at January 2001. There's still another 10 years worth of shootings, and you can view the list in detail at http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

Dont forget the NIU shooting 3 years ago to the day(14th) 5 killed over 12 injured.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41581348/ns/local_news-chicago_il/

Oh I didn't forget it.. there were too many to post.

Did I ever say there wasn't another shooting afterward? No. That specific shooting was the turning point for schools to take any drawing or any word said more seriously than they did before.

And no, he said "he wanted to die." Not "I'm going to kill myself."

Doesn't matter. Still suicidal ideation.

A school employee with grammar as atrocious as yours? I can't say I'm surprised. Did you pass 3rd grade, or do you just teach it? Maybe if you weren't so focused on deciding what six-year-old children are going to grow up and become murderers you would find time to work with both the children and the parents in an effective manner. I'd suggest you learn the English language first, though.

@babed, I agree with Gina. I'm also suprised you're a teacher. Maybe we should give you a label. MPITAT....meddling pain in the ass judgemental teacher. I'll bet if it made you're job easier, you'd have just recommended that this kid be drugged, and when the mother didn't comply, you'd take it upon yourself to call CPS and have him taken....wouldn't suprise me a bit, coming from someone like you.

There have been cases.. This is a 7 year old who commited suicide.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/138177.php

It wasn't a drawing... the article said he wrote he wanted to kill himself. Huge difference.

It absolutely was a drawing. The mother said it was from a video game. And the boy said he wanted to die not he wanted to kill himself. Huge difference.

Still suicidal ideation. I suppose you'd be happy if he'd been the latest person to express such then be ignored, right? Would you like that?

Of course I wouldn't. I said nothing about ignoring the drawing. I'm saying you're wrong in your statement clinpsych. That's ridiculous to even say I would be happy if he were to be ignored. Just as ridiculous as claiming it wasn't a drawing and the boy writing he wanted to kill himself. and the fact that you said it was a "huge difference" but you were wrong in the first place is also ridiculous.

and that is NOT classified as suicidal ideation. suicidal ideation is, by definition, when a person has thoughts about killing themselves. Saying "I want to die" isn't a suicidal thought, it's the kid expressing how he feels about his family's situation. He's not saying "It would be great if I shot myself in the head" or "I am going to kill myself." I wouldn't be happy if he'd been ignored, but I bet you'd be happy if they just drugged the kid so he didn't feel any emotion at all...

No it isn't. Suicidal ideation is wishing to be dead. Wanting your own life to end. Now... you could snap and let the cops kill you, which wouldn't technically be suicide, because such a person couldn't actually kill himself. Still suicidal ideation. His drawing didn't have anything to do with his WRITING, so you get it twisted before you even start. I never said anything about a drawing saying anything... in fact I said it WASN'T a drawing. I'm not sure what you just did, other than blatantly declare you couldn't care less for the actual story.

By the way, being drugged has nothing to do with it. Preventing a crisis does. A medication takes 10 days to 3 weeks to do anything... the human body can't even maintain a crisis state for long enough for that to mean anything. I hate pharma... etc, etc. Don't assume anything that I'd like... I'd like for a child's ideation to stop being suicidal. Nothing that is 100% medication will stop any ideation. Preventing a crisis demands mandatory holds, and this is for a very good reason. In fact... although little is said about the therapist the child is seeing... had the child written the same thing during therapy, his own therapist would have HAD to implement a mandatory hold or risk losing his right to practice. Again, for very good reasons.

There are many instances of school violence where it turns out the kids were on psych meds. (Columbine comes to mind)

I do think that some kids are over-medicated and misdiagnosed.But Columbine had little to do with Psychotropic meds and more to do with terrible misguidance.

columbine has to do with prozac in minors. which it was not approved for

School shooter Eric Harris was on psych meds and he was psychotic. Psychotic behavior can be a side effect of meds. . the terrible misguidance is to put kids on this garbage. Psych drugs are not tested on children therefore by prescribing them to children they are using them as guinea pigs ...

About drug induced psychosis:

"Drug-induced psychosis is the development of psychiatric symptoms in association with drug consumption or withdrawal. It can be brought on by prescription medications used entirely legitimately, as well as in response to drug abuse. Many cases are temporary and will resolve once the drug is withdrawn and the patient is provided with care. In some cases, permanent changes to someone's psychiatric well-being may occur, and long term care may be required.

In psychosis, patients lose contact with reality. They can experience hallucinations, delusions, and impaired logic and decision making. The severity of psychosis can vary considerably between patients. Sometimes, drug-induced psychosis occurs while a patient is taking a drug, and in other cases, it occurs during withdrawal. Alcoholics in rehabilitation therapy, for example, are at risk of developing psychosis while their bodies recover from their alcohol abuse."

Facts:

"Anti-depressants including Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Luvox and Celexa can have significant side effects including drug induced mania leading to suicide, suicidal ideation, violence, criminal acts, disinhibition or out of control behaviour; drug induced severe anxiety, agitation and depressions; drug induced obsessions and compulsions; drug induced akathisia (an internal sensation of agitation or discomfort that drives a person to move about and also to lose impulse control); tolerance and addiction leading to a recognized withdrawal syndrome which can include bouts of overwhelming depression, insomnia, fatigue and life-threatening physical effects, psychosis and violent out bursts"

columbine has to do with prozac in minors. which it was not approved for

Oh, okay.. because I thought it was more complicated than that, but it was just because the kids were on prozac.. I bet prozac got them access to guns too.

Nothing better than a shriveled up explanation to a complex issue.

Yankeegirl1-

Thanks for the plagiarism off of Wisegeek.com. Your argument is misleading because it is not specific to any particular diagnosis.

Eric Harris was on psych meds and he was psychotic.

Eric Harris was diagnosed with OCD. Eric Harris had more problems than anyone suspected or cared to pay enough attention to. While, I will admit- maybe- medications may have paid a part in it, they also may not have. There were many factors. Ignoring them would be ignorant.

I suggest you also consider looking up what happens to schizophrenics without medication..

Psychotropic medication is only part of treatment. All I ask is that you consider the thousands of people who benefit from it before you offer partial truths to support your stance.

Indeed. I hate pharma, however the only thing that provides power to their BS is when patients ignore one simple thing... most DO recommend (actually, say the intention is explicitly intended for...) therapy in conjunction with taking the meds. This is even before you get into the (typical) psychiatrist/psychologist rift.

The drugs were never supposed to have been used in conjunction with nothing at all. If they are... they become a coping mechanism in most illnesses... not a solution.

Way to make a ton of unfounded assumptions. Good job.

You are an idiot what makes u think that someone can come in an say that your child needs to be admitted? ANYONE CAN CALL THEMSELVES A PROFESSIONAL you bumbling fool. LET ME COME AND TAKE YOUR CHILDREN AWAY FROM YOU. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE ANY CHILD AWAY FROM THE PARENT. NOTZIEEEEEEE ZOMBIE!!

Exactly right. I'm 20 years old, and was involuntarily committed when I was 16...and am now horribly afraid of doctors. I start trembling in the waiting room. So imagine how scared, and messed up this little boy is going to be around teachers? What stood out to me in the video was that "he doesn't want to go back to school, because he's scared they'll take him away again." How could people be so heartless as to put a SIX YEAR OLD through this? I swear, the schools, and the mental health industry need to be SEPARATE things. Another disaster caused by teachers...oops, I mean "mandated reporters". Well, if you ask me, the whole mandated reporter BS goes a little TOO far, more often than not.

A school can't make this sort of decision. Unless you happen to know any school on the planet that has 72 hour holds. That being said... what the child provided made the hold automatic... for good reason.