Moron.

Expect more horror stories if ObamaCare is not repealed!

Everybody just assumed that the victim would have been saved, that is just not true. The six minute delay in getting the person to the Emergency department was not a six minute delay in care ( the medics were providing care already) Everyone assumed the emergency doctor and the trauma team would have waved their magic wands and saved this man, again not true. He/she would have died either way

There was no guarantee that he would have lived, but the trained professionals never tried to get him where they could administer the proper CPR; in which they took an oath to try and save lives.

Well since the current president has done nothing to overhaul the current medical system, you are barking up the wrong tree. Obamacare doesn't go into effect for a few years now, yet still your ignorant ass blames only him. Classic Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, O'Riley troll work.

Well CRFarmer is wrong, trained professionals were performing CPR, Paramedics/EMT were on the scene. I have worked in an ER for 9 years as a nurse and find it very disturbing that the general comments here, want medical personnel from the hospital to run to a parking lot??? Nothing more than CPR &defibrillation was able to be done in a parking lot anyway. You cant carry or roll all the equipment necessary to save someone's life in a crisis. Not to mention that what would happen to the patients inside the hospital if the medical staff all runs to the parking lot???? It is not reasonable to think that there are medical professionals just sitting around in the hospital that could respond outside the facility or stairwells or allies or parking garages. Seriously people instead of bashing the hospital why dont we concentrate on what caused the accident or something else that might be able to be fixed. If you want the medical professionals to run around in the streets to assist with rescue just think what medical care would cost. Everyone complains already, it takes approximately 7 medical professionals to run a successful emergency code situation.

Probably this dude was ALREADY dead when he crashed, and it is very likely that was the precise reason for crashing.

And anyway, what does the way the medical bill is suposed to be paid has to do with the medical and paramedical procedures done in this case?

The ones criticizing the health care reform, in this case, are simply a bunch of morons

Mom52: Unfortunately there are some people that still think that Chicago Hope or ER were real...

OMG, this is a case of people not having any common sense whatsoever. When I was severely burned as a kid, my neighbors took me and my brother to the hospital. When we got there he ran inside and screamed he needed help and they came out and assisted us both. They brought out gurneys and took us in and began the procedures in saving my life and his.

This has more to do with hospital rules and policies. If he was taken in from the scene of the accident, then died, then the hospital could have been sued for possibly contributing to the mans death, however, the hospital is really in a no win situation here. His family will sue, and the consumers once again will have to pay for it. I would think that a hospital would have had at least an emergency crew of doctors that could have helped him on the spot. Talk about a case of medical negligence, this is a biggie.

Common sense people. If you see a man bleedingto death, don't video tape and watch, learn to call 911 or learn some basic medical procedures that could save a life. You never know, it could be someone you love in a situation similar to this.

But, Shugga, if we learn a few basic medical procedures and try to stop bleeding to do CPR, we might be sued by the person we saved because we did more injury (like bruise his ribs during CPR) or by his family (because we practiced medicine without a license). Someone pulled a guy out of a burning car after a wreck and was sued because his back was fractured and the act of pulling him out caused further damage and paralyzed him.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Some places have a Good Samaritan law to protect people that try to help.

Duh, the EMTs, a nurse, and a police officer were there giving CPR and help. Very few people who "code" ever are rescitated. CPR does not repair a heart destroyed by an infarction! So....maybe you should think a little harder before you jump the gun on criticism!

What're ya? A commie? The primary goal of a hospital is to make money. Lots of money. Money, money, money! What're ya s'pose to pay all those doctors and CEO's who demand six-and-seven-figure-a-year salaries? Good will? That hospital should get a reward for defending and promoting free enterprise which makes rich people richer! It established a bureaucratic system to cover it's butt so it can make more money, money, money. That's the American way, ya commie! You must be one of those Obamasocialists that doesn't want rich people to get more money. It was that guy's personal responsibility to crawl to the emergency doors on his own. That's what's wrong with this country - everyone thinks they're entitled to be treated properly at a hospital! You libs who care about sick people and not the rich people are the downfall of our country.

Then fire the INSURANCE COMPANIES because they are the ones that make these rules.

To the person who said "HUH?" in response to the number of trained health professionals to run a "code", it takes at least one doctor, one or more nurses (usually 2 or 3), x-ray technician, respiratory therapy, security, and sometimes multiples of those professionals. It is really something to watch a "team" work and usually the only words spoken are orders from the doctor, the team is trained to work and know what to do without specific instruction; they work like a well-oiled machine on automatic. Bless all of them for what they do and the lives that they are able to save!

And what do you do for a living do you have anything do with medical, from your comment its obvious you have no Idea what you are talking about. And how things are done in the real world. That is why we have Medics!!!!!

That's what I thought Bydand. It was a chance, a slim chance but none the less a chance.

And Phusi, we do not know that. We do not know if he would have died anyway. The instruments needed were not in the parking lot. Alot could have been done to this man in those few minutes while in the ER.

Who knows? And that is just it, we don't know. All we know is that minutes were wasted due to red tape and not using a gurney to take this man 100 yards.

you try pushing a gurney 100 feet let alone a 100 yards I do this for a living as a medic. You would have need a gurney or cot, a 30-40 lbs monitor, a drug box, o2 tank and what we call a house bag. that is over a 100lbs of equipment and probally closer to 180 lbs now try running 100 yards. Not to mention as I posted in my other comment that most nurses are trained to function in a Hospital or in the ED not in the field. its not the same thing when you are out there. And the most important thing is good CPR!!! and you cant do good CPR while running bedside a gurnery across the parking lot try it sometime if you dont beleive me. So by picking him up and running with him you would have delayed pt care thus causing more harm . If he had no pulse which it sounded like he need CPR period ladies and gentleman. which according to article is what he got by the officer and first responders.

Just what the heck does PRESIDENT OBAMA have to do with a guy dieing in a parking lot 100 yards away from the hospital door? With CPR in progress tells me the poor guy was on the way out and probably would have died in the ER or on the ride to the ER.

And if the Republicans had their way, the guy would have died in the parking lot while medical staff were busy verifying his citizenship.

pastorcarl i hope thats not what you are. Maybe you need to pray and ask for knowledge before you speak on anything or just shut the hell up...

Sorry, Pastorcarl, but this wasn't an example of "Obamacare" (that won't start for years). This is an example of a wealthy hospital (which one isn't?) that only cares about it's own "rules" in order to pull in cash. If people die so it can make more money, too bad. That's what people like you believe in.

you are right on the money when you said that about obama . We need more medical , fire and police in every city in america . Since he has been in office there have been many cuts in this area . why is the people with short staff always to blame /

Pastor Carl:

The biggest lies in the United States come out of the mouths of the likes of you. Perhaps when you jump up on you pulpit, kindly pull your head out of where you have it jammed.

chris,

Maybe old men hace better memories. I seem to recall one of the very first stimulus programs under Obama was grants to states and local governments specifically aimed at police and fire departments. These grants were given to prevent lay-offs and to fill empty posions, to expand departments, and to properly equip the men in the field. Go back and look it up. Maybe the real problems are recession, dropping local tax bases, and a "business-friendly" but fiscally conservative set of legislatures who will fund tax-abatements and outright gifts to business, while cutting police, fire, public health and education. Note, I did not identify this with a single party, everyone seems to be playing the same game.

I am a firefighter and medic but unless you had a fire hose or extinghiser what could you do unless you could get the person out of the car. And from your comment it doesn't sound like you have much medical experience or training and just sitting by on an MVA or such and watching the medics work doesn't count you need to get the training and experience then comment my friend.

Bill, you are correct, President Obama has saved many, many, jobs in the medical field. More jobs will be created in the next few years...

Dued we aren't Johnny Come Lately's we have to be called we dont have ESP and we cant materliaze beside the pt when they have a accident. Try doing our job and see how it is jerk

Obviously, you missed my point.

You are correct -- the President of the United States had absolutely nothing to do with any of this -- nor did health care reform. You get a gold star for being able to read and comprehend -- unlike the dolts on here who are trying to make this story something it is not.

Which brings me to this story in the first place. It is a total crock of inflammatory BS. If people actually read the story they would realize the headline and all of the so-called-controversy are purely the author's invention. What do you people expect? Hospitals are not magical. They do not have transports that can beam folks from the parking lot into a sick bed. The author of this story irresponsibly makes it sound like red tape killed this guy. His injuries and/or medical condition killed him! From the facts stated in the article itself, it sounds like he got all the help he could have hoped for. Paramedics had to start CPR in the field. A gurney dragged out to the parking lot and then dragged back in would only have DELAYED necessary care longer. If he was in that kind of distress, he needed to be treated on the spot and not waited until he could be transported in the door. An ambulance is a mobile treatment unit. Once it arrived, he could be transported with minimal disruption to CPR and other treatments. The same cannot be said if he were hauled bodily inside the doors so that treatment could continue "in the hospital."

This is not about red tape getting in the way of treatment -- it is about an idiot reporter who does not understand how first response works. Call it red tape if you want, but a mobile transport medical facility was what this guy needed -- whether he was in the parking lot or across town. He was unresponsive and needed CPR. An ambulance is the best way to transport him without disrupting CPR. But you can say it is about red tape if you really think that little of your fellow human beings. It certainly makes a better story.

You couldn't have said it better. For those who claim they "work for a hospital and this is ridiculous"..working in housekeeping does not count. If you don't as a medical person and don't have a sensible comment....GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL then talk...the reporter is just as ignorant. 6 minutes...is excellent..If he said 6 hours, then I could understand.

Now to the point...GREAT job EMS....who in the heck could do CPR--effectively with a moving gurney. The reporter owes this hospital an apology...for reporting just an uninformed and ignorant article.

Great Post Saddened!!!!

@saddened---I would thank God you have never ran into a situation that is snarled in "red tape". Precious minutes were lost waiting for your "mobile treatment unit". However, I do agree that he may have died anyway. Because there is more "red tape" waiting just inside the doors of the Emergency Room. It's called being admitted. Too many stories, like this, occur on a daily basis. We just don't hear about them. :red tape", playing it safe, and making sure you can't be sued, seems to be the watchword of hospitals. From the phrasing of your comment, I assume, you are either part of a hospital's administration, or cost effectiveness board.

Saddened,

AMEN...

ER's are not typically located near main entrances or parking lots due to traffic congestion. Our small local hospital's main entrance is about 100 yards from vistor parking, but the ER is at the opposite end of the building, 2-1/2 blocks away. Yes, you could go through the building, smashing into doors, walls, staff, patients and visitors. Plus, this ER isn't like the TV shows, it generally doesn't deal with extreme trauma or severe heart failure. Those cases are air-ambulanced to the big city teaching hospitals about 20-30 air minutes away. More highly trained staff and equipment we could never afford. By the way, the local hospital won Thomson's "best in the nation" honors two years ago. It's not about quality of care, it's about knowing what you can or should do.

Niki----I HAVE done CPR on a moving gurney. Of course, that was when I was a younger, smaller ( emphasis on smaller ) woman. Hard as hell. But, yes, EMS is supposed to treat the patient in the field until the situation is stablized or better treatment is available ( i.e. the ambulence can safely transport the patient w/ the proper medical support to the ER & ACLS ).

You're so right. I hope the man's family sues that hospital for everything it has. It would be great to see its CEO lose everything he (or she) has and watches his family go from a luxurious life they have become accustomed to to being put out on the street homeless, hungry, sick and cold.

You are both totall idiots. that have no idea what you are talking about and watch to much tv and think there is some magical wand that can fix it all. Go run on your local ambulance as an observer and see how things are in the real world not in fantasy land.

I am not one for suing...but in this case that hospital is in big trouble. I hope the family sues bigtime, and they will probably win.

Alfred Beebe, I have read several of your posts. You are correct there is no magical wand that can fix everything. As a former EMT first responder, it sounds like they did the best they could under the circumstances. The problem here is not the EMT's. Someone said that ED doctors and nurses are not trained to work "in the field", but it sounds like you are saying that a doctor isn't trained to hear what happened, bring an easily administered drug that can be injected that may help him, come out, assess the situation, and then do what is appropriate. 1 person. It may or may not have helped. But all this could have happened during those 6 miunutes, while waiting for transport, that could have made CPR more effective.

I am a firm believer in doing the right thing...and I truly believe that based on where this happened, he was truly neglected, and the hospital is to blame for that. Could they have folded under the pressure? Sure, anyone can in any situation. But an ER nurse is not a doctor, and when you are "luckily enough" to have something happen to you this way outside a hospital, you should get the care you need. I guess the saying "being in the right place at the right time" is not a true statement.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you....the insurance companies and their never ending regulations that must be followed or you don't get a dime!

Plus they are not out there in the field making those life-saving decisions as they happen like the health professionals; they are sitting at their comfortable desks in a warm office working 9-5 or similar.

Grand MA Ma no place on the planet does insurance agents go out to a field to make life and death decisions. They sell a product only. Regulations are set by Hospitals, Doctors, The Community, and the Feds. These people are all lawyers. These rules are to be followed to the letter to protect themselves so they are not sued. Do you understand anything about anything that happens in this world?

Grandma - take your prescriptions. There was no insurance issue here - just a system created by middle managers, bureaucrats, and busybodies to create a system of rules, regulations, writs, flowcharts, and policies that are followed to the exclusion of common sense. This man may or may not have had insurance, it played no role in his death. Read the story again, and realize this kind of ridiculous nonsense is what you get when you turn a hospital from a place to treat patients into a place where things are administered.

Your take sucks.

Can you please provide the reasoning behind that procedure?

@maggiemoo--The reasoning is something called "CYA" If the man had died in the emergency room, without being brought by an ambulance, the hospital, as do all of them, would have felt someone could sue. No one but themselves to blame. Now they can blame several for the man's death. The bystander, the police officer, and the ambulance crew. The hospital is in the clear because they weren't involved. "CYA" has become the watchword for hospitals, the administration of the hospitals, and a little known adjunct to the hospitals called the cost-effectiveness office. Welcome to the world of "death to common sense" and "Cover Your A** at all times".

really, i dont know about you, but i wasnt trained to run 100 yards with a guerny and a crash cart, stabalize a cervical spine, extract a 200lb man from a car that has just crashed into a pole, all the while assessing vital signs and providing cpr, and then transport him through the hospital and into the ER all under 6 minutes. the ambulance is a mobile hospital with trained personal who can deliver this kind of care and reach the patient before the er staff ever could.

Well, lets see. I am an RN. Have worked for years in ER, Was a paramedic prior to nursing school. Hmmm MD or paramedic for my care after an accident. Sorry, I will take the paramedic. They do this every day.

Physicians are well trained for working inside the building, but not outside. You cannot do really effective CPR on a moving gurney. The article does not say if the First Responders had an AED, I know ours do and it is there job, to stabilize until the ambulance gets there for our parking lots.

So if this had been walmart's parking lot, the care the person would have gotten (probably LESS than was done in the Hospital parking lot) would have been ok to all?

From what I've seen of this story the hospital did everything by the book. The man was not noticed in a parking structure for up to 20 minutes, and was in cardiac arrest when found by police who started CPR, Hospital staff called 911 and sent out 1 paramedic and two first responder's with an AED. This truly is the best care until an ambulance can arrive, it may seem to the untrained that you should yank the guy out of the car and drag him over to the front door and toss him at an MD but that would not be beneficial to anyone. Plus this is an Adventist hospital, funded in part by the Adventist church, this is not an example of government bureaucracy.

another RN thank you from a medic someone finally gets it. @ RN what would you have done, you coudn't push meds without a Dr's order you couldnt have defib him without a Dr. CPR was already being done, that is what he needed, you could have helped by doing that but that is it. as another RN stated you are not trained for work in the field which is defined as anything outside the ED or hospital, clinic or Drs office. that is why they have medics and why we are trained diff than you. You guys do a great job in the hospital and serve an important role but we dont come into the hospital and ED and think we can do your job I wouldnt know where anything is or your procedures and have the drugs you know as RN I would have no Idea what have of them are for however the drugs I do know are all I need to know for what I do. Remeber we are trained and equipped to be quick and dirty, we dont have the same concerns or priorities you would in the ED or hospital. And in closing I will say this I respect your eagerness to help but chances are all you would have done is get in the way of the first responders and medics and added to the chaos of the scene.

Yes it does! I lived in a society for 30 years that works on Obama's ideas and that is what would happen to you if you are not the privileged political class for the same reasons that man died! And excuse my English I try to learn it very hard.This country use to be great, I hope one day it will be again that I hoped when I escaped those communist tyrants.

Actually Oregon has socialized medicine and this is very likely exactly the type of crap we will get out of Obama's healthcare plan. So yeah. Obama is relevant to the story.

You might try watching one too, It passed last year and Obama signed it. Law of the land.

The majority of Obama's health plan has not been implemented yet. If it was implemented, perhaps this man could have had access to better preventive care and avoided a fatal heart attack altogether.

Brian,

Try tuning your TV set to a channel other than Fox... Yes, it was passed and signed last year, BUT only a small portion of Health-Care Reform took effect in the last year. The bulk of the legislation does NOT become effective until 2014, three years from now. All the real screaming about "Obamacare" is based on pure conjecture, fomented by an opposition party and plutocratic health-care industry trying to protect its near monopoly.

And by the way, Health-Care Reform has absolutely nothing to do with this particular situation. This is about health-care bureaucracy, insurance rules and malpractice risk control. Malpractice risk control includes instances when it is better to do nothing, than risk a law-suit over what will eventually be a bad result. We don't know why this man died. It isn't clear that the ER could have done anything more for him. People die every day. Sometimes in strange places.

What "Obamacare" might have changed was a situation in Florida some years ago. The patient was delivered by ambulance to the nearest hospital. This was a private, for-profit hospital which could not quickly verify the out-of-state tourist's insurance. They sent him away to a public hospital nearly two hours away. Died in transit from the effects of his heart attack.

So how did "bash a dolt" turn into "bash a news network"? You are as ignorant as the lamebrain who caused this discussion.

I only mentioned Fox because it screams anti-"Obamacare" continually. I even heard a Fox commentator criticize Mitch McConnell for agreeing that some portions like pre-existing conditions coverage ought to be saved. Fox cannot give its commentators a pulpit to express a uniform, single point of view without accepting the label that goes with that point of view.

Other networks, like CNN, present both sides of this debate and take pains to point out that full implementation is still three years away.

Spoken like a true goose stepping commie, and I listen and watch fox and I knew this had nothing to do with Commmicare ok so get off your liberal bias.

I even heard on faux (non)news the other night that "President Obama has raised taxes" . What a lie. This was said by seanthehomo hannity. What an idiot. Does he really believe his own stupid words??