Good luck.

im curious, if you don't mind sharing, what problem did your ekg and cxr reveal?

Glad to hear that it worked out! But please understand that if I were to listen to every patient who tells me they want to be referred to a specialist because we doctors just don't understand them and because they know their bodies more than we do, then I would be banned by every practicing specialist within a 100 mile radius for wasting their time. I'm only a kids doc and have to deal with the parents, can you imagine what it's like to be an internist - or worse - a family physician?

The truth is that 90% of these patients have no clue what they're talking about; as in after I give in, and finally refer them to a specialist, I get a phone call from that specialist asking me why the hell I would think about sending that patient over (I remember how when I first started practicing, I would actually tell the specialist "well the patient thought it would be best to see you!" haha)

Some patients these days think they know better than their doctor because they're holding a print out of some obscure/esoteric for-profit website they found by Google, telling them to do this or that. If you don't give them what they want, you're automatically incompetent, or simply someone who "refuses to listen to their patient".

It makes me sad that the remaining 10% (i.e. you) have to go through what you had to go through just to get a legitimate second consult. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Again, glad it worked out.

excellent point kidsdoctor!

just keep in mind that your doctor is not ignoring your concerns out of malice or not caring

So, you know my doctor personally? Or you just believe that all doctors are exemplary human beings, even the ones who have been caught performing unnecessary surgeries, molesting their patients, and leaving surgical instruments inside someone's gut?

Many doctors ignore concerns because they know better. That would include the many doctors who ignored my gall bladder attacks because I was young and slender and you can't have a problem with your gall bladder unless you're fat and 50. I almost died and had emergency surgery in the middle of the night, despite the fact I had been having horrible attacks for years.

Currently I am going to have a dangerous surgery on my carotid artery because again my complaints were ignored until it was too late -- because a premenopausal woman couldn't possibly have cardiovascular disease. It has to be a panic attack.

Most doctors are greedy morons who should be in jail.

wow, just wow. First I have to say you have a lot of anger towards medicine, and it seems understandable considering what you went through

So I don't mean to say all doctors are superhuman beings with endless compassion who never, ever, ever screw up. In fact, my whole point was the opposite--that they are in fact human

Whenever I encounter people who are vehemently angry with doctors, I ask them a simple question--would you? Would you perform an unneccesary surgery, or molest a patient? Of course not--and the vast majority of doctors would not either. Now, are there doctors who would? Sure. But just like you can't indict the entire human race because some are child molesters or thieves, you can't indict an entire profession for the acts of a small minority. If you can show me that these aren't isolated incidents, then you have a point.

When I was in medical school, a very close friend of mine had acute cholecystitis and had to have her gall bladder removed. She was young and slender, just like you. And was diagnosed correctly. Im sorry in your case it wasn't so. But I will tell you that medicine is hard--very hard in fact. Sometimes the answer is not obvious at all--as in your case, as you admit, you are not typical for gall bladder issues. I guarantee you that each of those doctors felt very badly about messing up and it wasn't on purpose. I also have to say you are probably overstating things just a little--you had problems for "years" and then had "emergency surgery". Usually, emergent things present, well, emergently. The fact that you had been in pain for years, but had not died or suffered severe complications leads me to believe that while you needed the surgery, it probably wasn't life and death. Just a guess though, and I very well may be incorrect. Especially if you were septic/toxic, etc.

As for your carotid surgery---what symptoms were you having? Were you fainting and diagnosed with panic attacks? How much more common do you think panic attacks are than carotid artery disease in a young woman? Again, Im sorry, but you seem to be something of a medical mystery. In medical school, doctors are often told, "when you hear hoofbeats, think of horses, not zebras"--meaning, common things are common. True, your fainting could have been carotid artery disease, and a simple ultrasound would show that. Or it could have been a cerebral AVM. Or a seizure disorder. Or arrythmogenic right ventricular dysplasia. Or vaso-vagal syncope. Or carotid hypersensitivity disorder. Or, well, you get the point. Each of these diagnoses are unlikely in a young, healthy female, and would be very expensive to test for. And with increasing pressure from the government and public to keep health care costs down, we simply can't test for all these things. So we have to go with clinical judgement, which is obviously not perfect

Which brings me to your last point. I am offended honestly. Let me see you go through college with near perfect grades, take a very difficult admission exam with a 50%matriculation rate. Then take on one of the most rigorous post secondary educational curriculum in existence. Then learn on the job training in a residency program where you will work 30 hour shifts, 80 hours a week, for 3-7 years until you can finally know enough to practice unsupervised sometime in your thirties.

To be honest, I doubt it

charls--

you bring up some good points, and they are shared by the institute of medicine. Work restriction hours are now going to be reduced further--new interns next year can only work 16hrs maximum in a row. I myself, having gone through training at the full 30 hr limit agree that pt care probably suffers after that long due to fatigue. However, simply cutting hours does not solve all the problems. By making medicine more and more into shift work and cutting back hours, you increase handoffs. This is when an outgoing doc tells the incoming doc about his patients, and what needs to be done. That was done much less frequently when doctors worked longer, and took care of their own patients. Now I'll say from experience, you never know those patients as well as your own patients, no matter how detailed the handoff is. And increased handoffs have been shown to increase medical errors. So while I dont think long hours are perfect, I don't think simply cutting back hours is problem free either.

Which brings me to your last point. I am offended honestly. Let me see you go through college with near perfect grades, take a very difficult admission exam with a 50%matriculation rate. Then take on one of the most rigorous post secondary educational curriculum in existence.

Many people are confused about the intelligence required to become a doctor. It's about memorization. If you happen to have a good memory, you can make it through medical school. The ability to memorize is not the same thing as the ability to extrapolate, which is a much better indicator of intelligence.

Then learn on the job training in a residency program where you will work 30 hour shifts, 80 hours a week, for 3-7 years until you can finally know enough to practice unsupervised sometime in your thirties.

I think this in itself proves that there is no real concern for the patient, that it's about money and status for most doctors. Any responsible person would refuse to make life-and-death decisions for others while in a state of exhaustion.

The whole thing is a sham and always has been. You people talk about medical "science" when nearly anything you tell me, I can find another licensed physician who will tell me the opposite.

And look how many physicians are now -- for money-- jumping on the nutrition bandwagon. Only twenty years ago, they were laughing derisively at anyone who thought what they ate mattered to their health. And guess what my genius cardiologist has done in his medical wisdom -- put me on a diet that consists of nothing except vegetables and berries. That's right, not one gram of protein. If I were ignorant enough to follow his instructions, I'd probably be dead within 6 months. Certainly I would have damaged my heart.

You bet I'm angry.

kc

you claim it is only memorization, and has nothing do to with applying that data. I have a simple question for you--how the heck do you know? Did you go to medical school? Have you practiced medicine a day in your life? If the answer to both of those questions is no, you have no idea

The fact is there is a lot of memorization, which anyone can do. But it is application that seperates good doctors from average ones. Anyone can memorize that pulsus paradoxus is associated with tamponade, but how well can you pick it up? Do you even think to check? Don't confuse medical school tests, which check for memorization (the basic ingredient of medicine) with the practice of it (which is taking those ingredients and making something with it)

As to the second point--i think you really selectively quoted me there. I direct you to the second portion of the paragraph and ask you to read that, understand it, and then respond.

I can quote you literature from 50 years ago with studies suggesting the effect of nutrition on health. The fact that you don't know this is more reflective of your knowledge than medicine.

As far as your "cardiologist diet" i just flat out don't believe it. I'm a cardiologist, and I can't believe that he would flat out take protein out of your diet absence renal disease or some other factor. I submit you probably misunderstood him. At best, this is not reflected in any current guidelines from the ACC or AHA and this doc was practicing off the reservation.

THANK YOU, Eric. I will be printing our posts and giving it to my lawyer. Because as a matter of FACT, I was neither confused nor lying.

You address me as if I am stupid, but in fact, I have a significantly higher than average IQ. And to be exact, he ordered vegetables, berries, melons, and citrus. None of which contain even one milligram of protein. And no, I have no kidney disease.

Don't confuse medical school tests, which check for memorization (the basic ingredient of medicine) with the practice of it (which is taking those ingredients and making something with it)

You seem a little slow on the uptake yourself, Eric. You just made my point. Anyone with a good memory can get through medical school, but that doesn't mean they have common sense or decency. Do you personally know any doctors that are good diagnosticians? I doubt it.

I doubt you are a cardiologist, but.... well, maybe. At least you seem to know enough to realize such a diet is dangerous. Actually, it is lethal, isn't it?

kc,

didn't mean to insinuate you were intentionally lying. You say he ordered veggies and fruits. Sounds reasonable to me. Did he expressely forbid protein? Im not sure by your statement he did. By the way, you can almost all the amino acids you need from veggies.

I never said that medical school tests for decency. As for common sense, I think most medical students have that or they would not have gotten as far as they did. But I essentially agree with you that I think law school, for example, takes more "synthesizing" ability than medical school. That being said, you will never make it through residency without the ability to apply the knowledge you memorized in medical school. Remember, for doctors, all medical school does is give you the tools to start a residency and have some idea of what you are doing when you start traing. Residency/fellowship is the true training time for a physician, and simple memorization will not cut it in the real world with patients who don't present exactly like page 365 in the textbook

Ha, I don't blame you for doubting anonymous claims on the internet. I assure you I am a cardiologist. Whether a vegetarian diet is lethal--i doubt it. I know plenty of vegetarians and they do fine. Its actually probably healthy. But if he told you to avoid protein in any form, completely and indefinetely, then yes, I would think that is incompatible with life

Eric, they do fine because they eat protein from beans and nuts and certain high-protein grains. A human eating only vegetables and fruit would most definitely eventually die.

Inadequate protein for an extended period of time will result in heart disease, cancer, fatty liver, and osteoporosis, to name a few serious and/or life-threatening diseases.

I was just sniping at you regarding being a cardiologist because you were questioning my veracity. I figured turn-about was fair play.

Eric, you remind me of how emotionally numb and disillusioned with medicine I've become. It's a dead end argument you're having. I've stopped even trying. People will never understand the physical and emotional sacrifices we make just to wear that white coat (which many of us physicians now look at with disgust). We went into the profession to help people - in my day, about 4-5% of students were accepted to my medical school class. That is 4-5% of the TOP students. The hoops we had to jump through, the hundreds of hours of volunteering, and the rewards and certificates we've stacked up just to have someone look at our application is something that still haunts me to this day when I see the kind of attitude people have towards us.

When you tell someone what you've gone through, the immediate emotion is disgust (e.g. Charl's first response). We are not asking for sympathy, nor are we looking for a reason to be "better than others". We're not trying to say that we are different. We're simply trying to ask the other individual to put themselves in our shoes for one second. Just one second.

Not sure if it's our American culture, or if it's the way the world works, but the truth is that they simply can't understand. They can't and/or refuse to understand. You don't believe me? Please take a moment and reread your comments and the replies to your comments. If that isn't disheartening, I don't know what is. No one will ever know what it was like to study for months and months, 7 days a week, every single day for 18 hours straight. No one will know the kind of PTSD our national board exams have inflicted on most of us practicing physicians. What's worse is that they refuse to understand. Take a look at the declining rates of practicing physicians in the U.S. You shouldn't be surprised. It's one of the fastest declining professions as the older docs start looking into retiring. It shouldn't be a surprise when you need to wait for weeks just to sit down with a specialist these days. Our profession has realized it is simply not worth it anymore. And that is the truth my friend. It simply isn't.

kidsdoctor--i'm relatively early in my career but I'm afraid youre right. The health care debate recently highlights what youve stated. I only hope things change for the better.

Nothing I tell you! Absolutely nothing. I had to google fallopian tube. The whole profession is a sham.

ha! fallopian tube? Isn't that a ride at six flags?