It is not a lie. It is perhaps too modest a number. Instead of finger pointing and diversion, it is time to consider this objectively. I started trying to understand this issue after working with and becoming close to some illegal immigrants that defied our paradigm.

The viewpoints expressed here are "snapshots" of what we think we see regionally. This is what I see...

• Most Latino immigrants (including Mexicans) are hard-working, family oriented ethical poor people.
• I have not ever seen one take a handout. Every social service, including the public and private enterprise emergency rooms produce a bill for services. You cannot successfully apply for, or recieve welfare without a social security number. (caveat... I have seen one lady with two kids recieve WIC for the American kids after her Puerto Rican husband abandoned them)
• Having brought a couple to the emergency room in Louisiana, let me tell you, they had to pay. And there was a surcharge for no SS number. They also were not treated well. (I was embarressed for the racism they encountered)
• Quite a few that I have talked to have fled their homes for work and for fear. One brave woman said, "Norte Americanos think I am taking their opportunities away from them, but is not true. I have made my own opportunity here. There was no Americano selling the tamale before I came. I did not take someones job." (It was awesome food!)
• I travel the south in my work, and innumerable small southern towns across Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, Texas, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi have dying and decaying downtown areas that are being reborn with Latino commerce.
• The average Mexican family is not only terrified of the cartels, but of their government as well. In a recent documentary banned movie, "Presunto Culpable" Presumed Guilty , a young legal team spotlights how random people are picked up of the street and arrested to simply close a case. In the case of the young man in the movie, he had an airtight alibi, negative on the gunpowder test, and the judge never entered the courtroom. 13 year olds are picked up for beheadings. Kidnappings are not investigated.
• To own a taco stand, you pay "cartel insurance". If the cartels say "Do this (whatever it may be) you have a choice of your family dying horribly or doing it. Even the cops.
• Where I live now (in a small southern town in the US) my block is over half Latino. Everyone is working and leading a clean life except for the American guy on the corner house with the spinners. He is selling drugs to other Americans. (Incidentally, he won't be there much longer) I would rather have a Latino family living there.
• I understand that you may see something different in L.A. or Arizona. But really guys. Immigration reform isn't just about amnesty. The requirement for entering and settling here need a little streamlining to make it more "do-able" for some really good people to be here legally.
• I agree that the border is too leaky. But let's get these "good ones" into our system.
• Every Latino you see isn't Mexican either. I am not going to elaborate too much, but some of what is being attributed to Mexicans are actually American citizens doing the deeds. Ever been to Brooklyn?
• Drug cartels are the maggots of our part of the world. And to every American out there who wants to send these refugees home, if you are buying illegal drugs you don't have the right to say a word.

Henry, you make some valid points, but your argument about separating Latinos who are American citizens (legally obtained) from illegals (a huge number being Latinos from south of the Rio Grande) is half-baked and wonting.

I take offense to a stereotype that arbitrarily says that "Most Latino immigrants (including Mexicans) are hard-working, family oriented ethical poor people." So are many other demographics. The real insult is "ethical." You cannot be ethical when you commit fraud, scoff at federal, state or local laws (on any matter).

Norteamericans aren't supporing a tamale dump shack, it's other alambristas or Latinos wanting such a commodity.

Puerto Ricans ARE Americans. It's the nature of the commonwealth status. It's sad they choose to leave their paradise-island they've made into a sh*thole and send down roots in Central Florida and turn those cities in sh*tholes, too. (E.g. Semoran Blvd and southeast Orlando).

Objectively? ANyone caught with his hand int he cookie jar, regardless of offense, must pay the price. THAT is ethical. If a Latino is here legally, more power to them (and any other ethic or demographic group). However, if not (and there are thousands living in shadows, lying and conducting themselves surreptitiously to deceive), they must "own up" and be "ethical" and respect the law.

The fact the feds are not enforcing, or states "shouldn't be enforcing" is moot. It comes down to, if immigrants are so valuble, ethical, hard-working, fair and right, they CANNOT do whatever they want and clearly break several laws by coming across, lingering and utilizing resources of a nation they are not properly allowed to be existing in.

Peaches, I love my country and often despise my government. As far as moving to Mexico, I DID hope to retire there. If what I see around me offends you, then why don't you tell us your first hand personal observations. Not made up and not stuff told to you by others.

Ex. After Katrina I saw the illegals lining up at 3 in the morning to go shovel wet sheetrock and mud while American acquaintances of mine were drawing unemployment and sleeping late. Saw it... I was there. What have you SEEN? Firsthand.

And BumbleBee, sorry I don't understand your first paragraph about separating. Actually, I think you misunderstood me. I was trying to politely say that some (not all) US citizens see a Latino and assume that they are Mexican while in fact large numbers of Hondurans, Columbians, Nicaruaguans etc are also crossing the Mexican border. Even Puerto Ricans are mistaken for Mexicans. So if you see a Latino involved in an auto accident or being arrested for something... might be Mexican... might not.

Legal vs Illegal. I am all for legal and I firmly have come to believe that many here illegally came so they wouldn't die. If you had that choice, what would you do? Really. To even begin to start the process of entering legally, you better have at least 3 grand and a couple of years of paperwork. That is what immigration reform is partly about!

So, I challange with a simple question. Live? or Die?

And if you don't believe that this is the choice for some. I would be happy to get some of my neighbors over here and translate them for you verbatim.

Henry...

I live in an area where I interact very little with people of different ethnic backgrounds. I was sent to work, out of state, to a place where it was full of Latinos, mostly Mexican. I am a woman who was sent into the shop in an authority figure position. I was told, before I left home, that 'Mexicans were lazy'. I was nervous, but this is what I found after working 2.5 years with them.

It took a long time for them to feel comfortable around me, comfortable enough to talk with me. But I learned on day 1, they are NOT lazy. I have never seen such hard working men. They would get hurt and keep working. They would be sick and keep working.

They treated my position, and me with respect, from day 1. I could tell this situation was unusual for them, but they treated me with respect, none the less.

When they became comfortable enough to talk with me, I found most had left home because of the poverty and the horrible crime that surrounds them. They would talk, too, of the corruption of the police and the government. Even the departments that are supposed to help them to migrate are corrupt. They talked of missing their homes, the rest of their families. They worry about their families.

I did not find any of them to be violent. Not to me, not to others. There are north Americans working in the plant as well as Puerto Ricans, Hondurans and Arubans. You get your daily bull crap, but it wasn't any different from any shop I've been in.

And yes, all of them were here LEGALLY, although some did admit to me they had originally come here illegally and when they had the money saved up, went back and did the paperwork the legal way.

Before I met these gentlemen and got to know them, my attitude towards illegal immigration was 'stick em on a bus and ship em home'. Now, I feel more for the human side of it. I know we can't let everyone in, but the immigration laws, as they are, are not working. Some work needs to be done to fix this.

We need to seal the border, yes, but we also need to find a way for the good people have a chance.

There are good and bad in all ethnic groups. Don't tell me otherwise, folks. Where I live, there are very little blacks, Latinos, etc and guess what? We still have crime, we still have people abusing welfare and we still have drug use, dead beats and violence.

You are 100% correct. If we put all those soldiers who are fighting to "supposedly liberate Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya" across our borders than we would NOT have a single attack, illegal immigration problems, drug problems and I am sure it would solve other problems as well, including our soldiers would not get killed.

or in our schools where they cost twice as much to teach, in our hospitals on our dime punching out anchor babies, or on our roads driving without insurance, etc, etc.

Peaches, could you say about what region or state?

Henry if you don't know, you must be from Alaska.

I travel the south, both metro and rural. See 1.1. And I have said what I see. And approximately where I see it. So where do you see what you claim?

Google "Maywood, California".

Thanks, I did. I tried to avoid the editorials and read 3 or 4 "straight up" news stories. I am sure that is no where near the impact of being there. I get the impression that the mayor and law inforcement "caved" and "pandered" to an extreme extent. I am not sure if the bankruptcy of the town is a direct or indirect result of the Latino population..or of the municipal actions. But it is a damn shame. And thanks for giving me some reading. I AM always looking... but I DO filter the "SLANTED" stuff. So, is it absolutely the whole story that a US protester was beaten in front of police by Latinos? Or is that ... Um... incomplete?

In comparison, the places I have lived vary in their reaction to illegals driving, but in all cases that I have seen. Tickets are given for traffic violations, Insurance is still mandatory, And some accept international driving licenses and some don't.

on a side not why would anyone want to "pour piss out of a boot"? wouldnt' the best idea be not pissing in your boot in the first place?

Cheap labor? are you kidding me know what we pay for in entitlements to each Mexican family that comes here? and after they start having kids?

crime, healthcare, lots American jobs, lost taxes!!!

Read this:

It's you own fault Wisconsin, you had a chance to get rid of the 50 million illegals, but you did nothing, Now they have sucked all your money and there is none left for you. What sucks, even more, the contracts will go to illegals, they have the lowest bids.

You paid for their kids birth, and education... you lost American jobs to them, taxes went down. You paid for their health care, now the Hospitals are broke. They have lowered you property values. They are going to be the majority soon, and then we are all f$$k$D!

There is a reason they left their country, and now they are doing it to you...

While Rome sleeps...

You and you parents and there parents, joined the system, paid there way, and it worked. 50 million out of the system, undercutting jobs... free everything... it had to hit a brick wall sooner or later.

Just think of the millions and millions of unpaid tickets, because they have no idea who the people are.

you asked for it.... here it is.

1 down 49 to go...

NO, the headlines should read, "hopes increase for bolstered illegal imigrant vote for liberals, obamanation overjoyed"

libs piss up a boot as they are afraid of contaminating the ground around them. Most then find a bathroom and dispose of it correctly.

S.Ulmer, you beat me to the punch. I was just going to say how the lib's have added 115,000 voters to their lists.

zilla,

you are correct, most people would not "piss in their boot", the fact is that is what the dems are doing, or should I say, they are trying to piss on the citizens of the US and tell them "it's raining".

the real question is: when will the left realize what the right already knows, the current obamanation administration is screwing the whole country, intentionally, and laughing about how stupid the people that voted them into office are.

Your own boot? Or someone elses?

it would appear to be the boot of socialism.

Face it, we've been sold out by our own elected government officials to the corporate elite. They allowed the financial disaster to happen when they gave the financial institutions basically a free reign by eliminating laws, and refusing to do their oversight responsibilities that would've preveted it. And when it happened, the only ones to suffer the effects were the average American worker, not the ones who caused it, or those in office that allowed it to happen! Now they're effectively reducing the middle class to that of peasants in other countries by allowing illegal aliens to flood across our borders, drive wages down of the jobs that are still available, cripple our educational, healthcare, and other tax based social services meant to help Americans who have paid taxes into these programs when they were doing better. Now "our" government is allowing illegal aliens to obtain "legal drivers licenses", and rights under the U.S. Constitution, even spending our tax dollars to enforce illegal aliens rights under it! When in fact illegal aliens do not have these rights as they have neither "earned", or "fought" for them! As human beings they have "Human Rights", not the rights of U.S. Citizens!!! Our government is working in concert with the corporate elite to end the American middle class, vets can't get jobs because they don't speak spanish, Americans have lost their jobs because their employers can't compete with those who hire illegal aliens with the blessing of those in elected office. A town in Oregon will not spend its funds on celebrating Independence Day, but will to celebrate Cinco DeMayo! Sanctuary states are going bankrupt. California high school students were escorted off their campus for wearing shirts with the "American Flag" on them because it may have offended the Mexican students celebrating "Cinco DeMayo"! It's over folks, the American Dream that is! The corporate owned media is flooding the news with stories on these poor illegal aliens (they call then undocumented workers) looking for an honest job while millions of American citizens suffer in the cesspool created by these illegal aliens, and their enablers! The government tells us the border is now safe, yet the warning signs on public land are still there! And this generation of Americans are too self centered, and gutless to do anything about it! Thank God I'm the age I am. I can at least smile and remember the time when Americans were proud of their country, and God help anyone who disrespected her by marching in "our" streets displaying a foreign flag demanding rights while being here illegally! Jobs were to be had at every turn. And the government was afraid to anger the people of our nation. Now the people are afraid of the government! Why else would we put up with the garbage they're pulling? My time is over, and it was a great time. If things continue the way they are, your time is going to be a nightmare compared to the bad dreams your having now! Good luck!

I don't see any "cheap labor." I see a bunch of illegal criminal aliens with their hands out. Give me a free education, give me housing, give me medical care, give me food, give me...........

Until we start deporting these aliens along with their anchor babies we will have a problem.

I just had a garage sale here in Dallas today, and 15 Mexicans came in 3 of the girls were pregnant, I would say they were about 19. I noticed them bunching up and went around the corner to watch them, they couldn't see me... WTF they were stuffing there purses with my family's stuff. So I came out and said no one leaves, one of the men picked up a lamp and threatened me and they all tried to run, thank GOD my neighbor heard the yelling and came running... well a hour later after the police showed up we counted about $50 of stolen stuff (my wife marks everything with prices) I told the officers if they could pay for it, I would not file charges.

out of the 15 no one spoke English and together they had $12 thats it. they were in a pack stealing as a team, not looking to buy stuff. I took the $12 and they were let go... you want to know why, the cop told me if I filed they would came back and might hurt my family.

Are you kidding me... Garage sale is now closed forever!!

this just happened... TRUTH!

james,

to declare martial law the government must have a reliable police/military to enforce the law,

so you see the delema.....

Here's a post I read that pretty much says it all!

blowe09 Just now

• Obama could add millions of jobs and save 100,s Billions of dollars while increasing tax receipts by billions just by the simple act of abiding by our Constitution against invasion, enforce our immigration Laws and honoring his Oath of office!

  Instead Dumbo,s answer is to reward them and give them American citizenship and Amnesty for their Invasion of this Nation and their many crimes!

  But by doing so he will add tens of millions of uneducated, prolific breeding, welfare Democrat voters! Which to him and the Democrats is much more important than the welfare of American citizens and the future of this Nation!

  With millions of Americans without jobs and losing everything no Liberal Democrat will address the 500 pound gorilla in the room, 20 to 30 million of invading Illegal Aliens taking jobs that should be American jobs and billions of dollars in social services that should be for American citizens while driving our standard of living toward third world status!

  Their negative impact extends to every area from Sub-par loans, Lower standard of living, Billions taken from this economy and sent to their home countries, Massive document fraud, Crime, Overrun ER rooms, Bankrupted hospitals, Failing schools, Property Taxes, Insurance costs, Environment, Culture, Welfare costs, Welfare fraud, SS fraud, Voter fraud, Disrespect for laws, our Constitution against invasion and even Balance of payments occurring from oil and other imports to support the 20 to 30 illegal aliens in this country!

  One has to only look at Calif. which is basically mostly an Spanish speaking Bankrupt state that cannot afford to provide Welfare, Schooling, Medical, Prison cells etc. for millions of MS-13 Gang bangers, Drug dealers, Rapist and other assorted Criminals and uneducated, fast breeding, third world Parasites from Mexico!

  In a very few years it will be impossible to see where Mexico ends and Calif. begins as both will be an third world cesspool!

  Failure to secure our borders and reward the Invading horde for their invasion and their relatives in an never ending chain with American Citizenship will assure our future is an over populated Spanish speaking Slum that is an Cesspool of Corruption, Crime, Poverty and Misery modeled on Mexico!

Couldn't agree with this post more. Well said!

and that is just what we know will happen, think about what we don't know. Like when Americas decide to do a "day of rage" for two years!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It will happen.

and everyone seems to have forgoten that mexico IS building a fence on it's southern border, to keep other immigrants out or from trekking through to the US.

the obamanation wants this to continue, his administration is actually counting on this to escalate.

the dems in charge in his cabinet like this stuff because it gives them fuel to push their agenda.

they know we're broke, THEY DON'T CARE!

it is intentional acts of sedition, only the public that voted them in still want to taste his @##@ on the backs of their throats.

even though the vast majority of the are athiests, they all think he is a god sent down to save them with his socialism by destroying the USA.

Ulmer, get help, seriously...are you off your meds, or just that detached from reality?

as opposed to self medicating like you?

reality check - life comes at you hard and sometimes cruelly, take the blinders off, and you might get a clear picture.

how's he taste?

NO, it is mexicans killing mexicans

you are an idiot, what part of mexicans running away from mexicans killing mexicans in mexico is so hard for you to understand.

whine, piss and moan all you want, it is a mexican problem that is in mexico and concerns mexicans fleeing from mexican on mexican violence, IN MEXICO!

Scott got it right and he's not an idiot. Because of the American war on drugs it has created the problems that exist in Mexico today. Cause and effect. If there wasn't a war on drugs we wouldn't be hearing about the tragedies in Mexico. Plain and simple. Now it's probably going to have to take US military intervention to put an end to the powerful cartels.

BTW- The idea of closing and sealing the border is absolutely ridiculous not to mention financially impossible. I agree the border needs to be better controlled but closing it off completely is just not feasible.

OneDirtyRat - Try not to make too much sense. You might confuse the room. Of course drugs aren't the problem. If they were, most everyone posting would feel even guiltier turning a blind eye to their friends and family members who are using.

Don't tell me how a cow has to be butchered, just let me keep enjoying my steak.

As opposed to the unmitigated failure that the Law and Order position has given us? Forty years into this debacle of a 'War on Drugs,' millions more American lives ruined by the Prohibition of drugs, than by the drugs themselves.

Has there been any progress? Feel free to name a single state that is free of drugs. No, one CITY....?

More drugs are out there than ever before. It's time to man up, put on our big boy pants, and admit that absolute Prohibition is unworkable, has failed, and is actually counterproductive, doing far more harm than good.

It's ok, most everybody recognizes it now. It's your turn to face reality.

fred,

you are as big an idiot as scot,

this is to reiterate the problem and point out that YOU are not seeing the FACTS!

these killings are happening in MEXICO.

these killings are being done by MEXICANS.

these mexicans are killing MEXICANS.

these people that have been reported leaving MEXICO are leaving MEXICO because MEXICANS are killing MEXICANS in MEXICO, and the MEXICAN government is incompetent and cannot stop it, IN MEXICO!

you want to get high in the USA which is against the law, in the USA and MEXICO, but you want to blame the violence in MEXICO on your drug habit.

so, by your own logic, YOU are guilty of murder in MEXICO, and since the drugs you want and the murders you are committing are in MEXICO, then you need to move to (you guessed it) MEXICO.

what kind of little tiny mind thinks that MEXICANS killing MEXICANS in MEXICO has anything to do with anything other than MEXICO.

if it were not drugs, then it would be something else, like maybe MEXICANS trafficing in human smuggling of MEXICANS.

if you read the story then you missed the part where the dead MEXICAN tv stars body was taken from the active MEXICAN police crime scene by MEXICAN gunmen, IN MEXICO.

the problem is a MEXICAN problem. you don't even hear this kind of violence in kalifornia, where the drugs come in by ship from all over the world. sure there may be a little, maybe up to 200 murders a year, but nowhere near the numbers (not by a long shot) comming out of MEXICO.

it truly is YOUR turn to face reallity.

S.Ulmer- Rage much?

The killing is in Mexico, but the money that pays for the killing comes from prohibition here. Follow the money, always follow the money.

mark,

then, by your own admission you are a murderer, and you are killing by your love of getting high on your "harmless" drug.

S.Ulmer- The war on drugs is to blame for all of the violence associated with illegal drug trafficking.

So you, sir, are the one to blame for the violence and deaths if you are for the continuation of the spectacularly failed and costly Drug War.

S.Ulmer - I guess your alcohol induced buzz makes it difficult for you to read and comprehend simple English.

really? you idiots think that it was an American that killed the TV show host? that an american gang of gunmen stole the body while the American police stood by and watched?

put down the bong, boys and girls, pay attention, MEXICANS ARE KILLING MEXICANS, IN MEXICO!

just because you want YOUR drugs, still does not mean they should be legal!

GROW UP, learn to face reality, SOBER!

you are morons!

Again with you incoherant, ignorant, off topic, baseless insults. It must really suck to be you....

S. Ulmer:

Yes Mexicans are killing Mexicans...we get it.

But what is the root cause of why they are killing each other? And the answer is not because they are Mexicans.

It's you that isn't facing reality..and you are sober ( I think).

And why do you keep on thinking everyone is stoned or smoking. Every comment I posted here I was sober.

Are you one of those people that thinks everyone should live their lives completely sober? Why would you insist on that? And who the hell are you to tell anyone how to live their lives?

I'm wondering if you can answer this post without throwing out insults.

I predict you won't be able to because you have too much rage inside of you. But you might surprise me. I chanllenge you to answer without insults.

dirtyrat,

if you take the fact that the people that smoke pot or do drugs and complain about their illegal use of these substances would be better for mexico if they were legal, as an insult, then there are bigger problems than my attitude on the subject.

and when you consider that mind altering substances, like everything else, used in moderation could be considered harmless, you are supporting the same to be abused, which is not harmless. for instance, marijuana is known to cause most of the same effects on the human body as tobacco, thing like emphysema, chronic bronchitis, bronchiectasis and more including cancer, memory loss and psychosis, the latter three not associated with tobacco. and these are the effects to the casual user.

the war on drugs can never be won because the users will always find an excuse to use. there have been numerous items made illegal because of their harmful effects to the human body. take lead paint for example, as paint it is completely harmless, it covers well, goes on easy, and is very durable. yet when ingested or applied directly to the skin, has toxic results, and that is only when used or abused for purposes other than intended. and you do not hear of the industries killing each other off to control it's distribution, because when people became informed of the dangers they demanded it's discontinued use, but it is still one of the best additives for paint to this day.

as for the killings in mexico, it is a fact, that there is a higher rate of murder among these people for the simple reason that the mexican government is either involved or incompetent. so how does that make it any problem of anyone in the US? to say it is our fault is the same as blaming snow for tsunami's.

the root cause for mexicans killing mexicans is shear lawlessness in mexico, the same thing applies to murder, kidnapping, rape, and every other crime committed world wide. it's called lawlessness because it is law breaking done by criminals with no fear or regard for the law. that is a fact, and the fact that it occurs in mexico at a higher rate than most everywhere else, does not make it the problem of the US. the problem lies in mexico, period.

to say that the "war on drugs" is to blame for all the violence in mexico is as ignorant a statment as could ever be. it would be equal to saying that because blue is the color of the sky, fish don't have wings, rain is water from the sky and fish kinda fly in the water so there has to be a connection, right?

and I'll bet you would still think this is an insult, if you do, then there is nothing left to say.

again with your lies and total ignorance of the facts. marijuana does NOT cause ANY of the side effects caused by tobacco. NONE.

and here's a little statistic I researched for ya:

in 2010 the US population was 308, 745, 538.

64% of those people admit to being drinkers of alcohol.

10% of the US population are alcoholics. (US government sources)

20% of the population admit to being pot smokers. Less than 10% (again US government stats) "might be" addicted.

That amounts to 2% of the entire US population being 'in danger" of getting addicted to something that has been proven over and over again NOT to be addictive, AND FURTHERMORE, NOT 1 SINGLE DOCUMENTED DEATH due to ingestion of cannabis. NOT 1.

Alcohol kills 400,000 people by disease, overdose and highway deaths EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

READ 'EM An' WEEP.......................

Pot For Pain: The Verdict Is In
Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:30:53 By: Paul Armentano, NORML Deputy Director
Share This Article

[Editor's note: This post is excerpted from this week's forthcoming NORML weekly media advisory. To have NORML's media advisories and legislative updates delivered straight to your in-box, sign up for 'NORML News' here.]

Cannabis inhalation and the administration of cannabinoids are both associated with “significant analgesic effects” in the treatment of chronic non-cancer pain, according to a systemic review of randomized controlled trials to be published in the British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology.

Investigators from the University of Toronto, Hospital for Sick Children, conducted a literature review regarding the efficacy of cannabinoids in the treatment of chronic pain, including neuropathic pain, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, and mixed chronic pain. Eighteen randomized controlled trials published between 2003 and 2010 involving a total of 766 participants met inclusion criteria. Four of the trials assessed inhaled cannabis, while other studies assessed the analgesic properties of either plant-derived cannabinoids or synthetic cannabinoids.

“Overall the quality of trials was excellent,” authors wrote. “Fifteen of the eighteen trials that met inclusion criteria demonstrated a significant analgesic effect of cannabinoid as compared to placebo, several reported significant improvements in sleep. There were no serious adverse effects.”

Researchers noted that all four trials involving inhaled cannabis “found a positive effect with no serious adverse side effects.” They added: “Of special importance is the fact that two of the trials examining smoked cannabis demonstrated a significant analgesic effect in HIV neuropathy, a type of pain that has been notoriously resistant to other treatments normally used for neuropathic pain. In the trial examining cannabis based medicines in rheumatoid arthritis a significant reduction in disease activity was also noted, this is consistent with pre-clinical work demonstrating that cannabinoids are anti-inflammatory.”

Investigators concluded, “[C]annabinoids are a modestly effective and safe treatment option for chronic non-cancer (predominantly neuropathic) pain. Given the prevalence of chronic pain, its impact on function and the paucity of effective therapeutic interventions, additional treatment options are urgently needed. More large-scale trials of longer duration reporting on pain and level of function are required.”

NORML has additional information on the analgesic properties of cannabinoids in its handbook, Emerging Clinical Applications for Cannabis and Cannabinoids, here.

Below copied from WebMd.

Heavy marijuana use lowers men's testosterone levels and sperm count and quality. Pot could decrease libido and fertility in some heavy-smoking men.

Contrary to what many pot smokers may tell you, marijuana is addictive, at least psychologically. Even among occasional users, one in 12 can feel withdrawal symptoms if they can't get high when they want to. Among heavy pot smokers, the rates of dependence are higher.

Many experts also believe that marijuana is physically addictive. Symptoms of withdrawal from pot might include:

• aggression
• anxiety
• depressed mood
• decreased appetite

Another government sponsored source = BS story.

cannabis CURES anger, aggression, anxiety, depression, gives you the MUNCHIES = increased appitite.

Congratulations Ulmer! You posted without calling anyone an idiot or a moron. Those were the insults that I was referring to. Nothing else.

As for the rest of your post, I suggest you do some more research:

Myths and Facts About Marijuana

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#moremyths

* Marijuana Can Cause Permanent Mental Illness
* Marijuana Is Highly Addictive
* Marijuana Is More Potent Today Than In The Past
* Marijuana Offenses Are Not Severely Punished
* Marijuana Is More Damaging to the Lungs Than Tobacco
* Marijuana Has No Medicinal Value
* Marijuana Is a Gateway Drug
* Marijuana's Harms Have Been Proved Scientifical
* Marijuana Causes an Amotivational Syndrome
* Marijuana Policy in the Netherlands is a Failure
* Marijuana Kills Brain Cells
* Marijuana Impairs Memory and Cognition
* Marijuana Causes Crime
* Marijuana Interferes With Male and Female Sex Hormones
* Marijuana Use During Pregnancy Damages the Fetus
* Marijuana Use Impairs the Immune System
* Marijuana's Active Ingredient, THC, Gets Trapped in Body Fat
* Marijuana Use is a Major Cause Of Highway Accidents
* Marijuana Related Hospital Emergencies Are Increasing, Particularly Among Youth
* Marijuana Use Can Be Prevented

Marijuana's Impact on Brain Function "Minimal"

http://blog.norml.org/2009/07/28/marijuana's-impact-on-brain-function-"minimal"-new-study-says/

Developing Brains: Alcohol Worse Than Marijuana

http://www.physorg.com/news157280425.html

Reaserchers Find Study of Medical Marijuana Discouraged

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/19/health/policy/19marijuana.html

(And I could go on, and on, and on...)

SUPPORTING RESEARCH INTO THE
THERAPEUTIC ROLE OF MARIJUANA

American College of Physicians (2008)

2. Marijuana's Schedule in the Controlled Substance Act (excerpts)

ACP urges review of marijuana status as a Schedule I controlled substance and
reclassification into a more appropriate schedule, given the scientific evidence regarding
marijuana's safety and efficacy in some clinical conditions

ACP urges an evidence-based review of marijuana's status as a Schedule I controlled
substance to determine whether it should be reclassified to a different schedule.
This review should consider the scientific findings regarding marijuana's safety and efficacy
in some clinical conditions as well as evidence on the health risks associated with
marijuana consumption, particularly in its crude smoked form.

Schedule I substances, which include LSD and heroin, are those that have
been determined to have no medicinal value and high potential for abuse (4).
A review of the scientific evidence supports the therapeutic efficacy of marijuana
and cannabinoids for certain conditions, such as HIV wasting and chemotherapy induced
nausea and vomiting (5–8). Cannabinoids have also been suggested to
provide potential therapeutic benefit for other chronic conditions, but research
evidence to support these claims is limited at this time.
Based on the evidence, the HPPC reaffirms ACP's view that the federal
government should review the scientific evidence to determine whether marijuana
and cannabinoids should be reclassified to a different schedule.
Medications with abuse potential are placed in Schedule II of the Controlled
Substances Act, which confirms evidence for therapeutic benefit but brings
them under stricter control, including quotas on the amount that can be legally
manufactured. Said scheduling also signals to physicians that a drug has abuse
potential and that they should closely monitor its use by patients who could be
at risk for drug abuse. Schedule II drugs 1) have high potential for abuse; 2) have
accepted medical use for treatment in the United States or accepted medical use
with severe restrictions; and 3) may lead to severe psychological or physical
dependence if abused. Examples of Schedule II substances include morphine,
cocaine, phencyclidine (PCP), methadone, and methamphetamine (9).
Marijuana's current scheduling and the federal process for obtaining
research-grade marijuana poses unique challenges for researchers. Currently,
the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) is the only legal producer and
distributor of marijuana and cannabinoids that can be used for federally
approved research. In addition to applying for a DEA license and FDA
approval, investigators who wish to study marijuana must also submit their
protocols to NIDA, a review process that exists for no other drug. Although the
FDA review process has a 30-day deadline, the NIDA Public Health Service
review has no deadlines and no formal appeals process. This extra process has
been imposed on medical marijuana research despite federal law requiring adequate
competition in the production of pharmaceuticals, including Schedule I
drugs (10). DEA regulations specify at 21 C.F.R. § 1301.33 (b), "In order to provide
adequate competition, the Administrator shall not be required to limit the
number of manufacturers in any basic class to a number less than that consistent
with maintenance of effective controls against diversion solely because a
smaller number is capable of producing an adequate and uninterrupted supply
(11)." It is for this reason that researchers have requested that the DEA and
NIDA allow privately funded, government-approved, research-grade marijuana
production facilities. In February 2007, DEA administrative-law Judge Mary
Allen Bittner recommended that the DEA and NIDA approve such a facility
proposed by Professor Lyle Craker, Ph.D., director of the Medicinal Plant
Program at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst Department of Plant,Soil and Insect Sciences.

"NIDA's system for evaluating requests for marijuana
for research has resulted in some researchers who hold DEA registrations …being
unable to conduct their research because NIDA has refused to provide them
with marijuana," Bittner said. Judge Bittner also ruled that there is an "inadequate"
supply of marijuana available for research purposes (12). The DEA has
no deadline on whether to accept Bittner's nonbinding ruling.
Review of marijuana's scheduling is not a new concept. In the 1980s, the
Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) held extensive hearings on the transfer of
marijuana to Schedule II. In 1988, DEA administrative-law Judge Francis L.
Young recommended that the DEA Administrator, "conclude that the marijuana
plant considered as a whole has a currently accepted medical use in treatment
in the United States, that there is no lack of accepted safety for use of it under
medical supervision and that it may lawfully be transferred from Schedule I to
Schedule II." (13) The DEA overruled the judge's order, and in 1992 issued a
final rejection of all requests for reclassification (14). Since then, other petitions
for rescheduling marijuana have also been denied (15). Considering the evidence
available today about the potential therapeutic benefits and risks associated
with marijuana and its cannabinoids, ACP believes that it is time to review the
evidence to determine whether reclassification is appropriate.

Folks, this is outrageous. First of all, the DEA won't even allow independent studies on marijuana. Gee, I wonder why? Secondly, It's a Scheduled Class I and researchers have suggested a review of it's class. If it were to go one tier down, Sched II, it would be in the same class as morphine, cocaine, and heroin!!?? Everyone with ANY common sense would know that weed is no where like these drugs. Pot needs to be in the same class as alcohol, or better yet, it's own class.

SWEDEN:

Here is an excerpt from an article:
Drugs Policy in Sweden (John Yates)

"The reality of the 'Swedish Model' is very different from the propaganda of the Swedish government. Their draconian laws are not having any effect on drug availability or use. Swedish Television News reported 5.10.95 that amphetamine is now so common that it is cheaper than alcohol. The newspaper 'Dagens Nyheter' reported 8.10.95 that heroin is pouring over the border from Norway into western Sweden as Eastern European gangs open up new routes to the lucrative Swedish market. According to the National Health Institute, 20% of Swedish young people in the major cities use drugs, mostly cannabis.

One area where Swedish drug laws are having a great effect is crime. The newspaper 'Dagens Nyheter' reported 2.6.95 that drug use and violence are escalating out of control and Sweden is heading for a situation similar to that in the USA. A report by the Criminal Care Ministry (Kriminalvardsstyrelsen) 1.7.95 says serious crime has risen 25% in Sweden since 1990 and a report from the Criminological Institute of Stockholm University in September 1995 states that adult crime in Sweden has risen 80% since 1975. In 1975 the drug laws were much more liberal than they are today.

The situation in the cities is becoming untenable. Crimes of violence in the Greater Stockholm area rose by 54% between the years 1987-1993 according to Johannes Knutsson, a researcher at the Police High School in report in the newspaper 'Svenska Dagbladet'10.7.95. The crimes that have increased most are robbery and aggravated robbery

The minister of justice, Laila Freivalds, said to the press in June 1995 that there is a clear connection between the rise in violent crime in Sweden and the availability of illegal drugs and weapons.

The best way of fighting the Swedish narconazis is by information. They should be confronted by the total failure of their prohibition policy and while this will make no impression at all on the Swedish demagogues, it may prevent them from fooling others that the 'Swedish Model' works."

The violence is obviously connected to Draconian drug laws and prohibition. Hmmm...where have I seen this before?

HOLLAND:

Tourists no longer welcome in cannabis-selling coffee shops (News Staff)
Published: 9 September 2009 10:27 | Changed: 3 May 2010 14:34

(excerpts)
"The Dutch government wants to maintain its tolerant policy towards cannabis and keep so-called coffee shops open, but they should no longer be tourist attractions,...

The ministers want municipalities to implement a members-only system, where members can by up to three grammes of hash or weed each with their (Dutch) bank card. This should make it less appealing for tourists to travel to the Netherlands to buy cannabis. The ministers will also allow experiments where coffeeshops can have larger quantities of drugs stocked. Currently, a coffeeshop can have 500 grammes in store and an alternative supply system via drugs runners is a source of nuisance.

The three coalition parties in the government have long disagreed about the overhaul of the drug policy. Christian democrat CDA had called for an end to the tolerance policy and the orthodox Christian ChristenUnie agreed, but the Labour party PvdA believes banning coffeeshops will not solve the problems of crime, nuisance and health and wants to legalise the whole chain of supply."

The problems Holland have are not with the drug, marijuana, itself, but they are having problems with the supply of the product which is in control of illegal drug traffickers. The problem does not lie with legalization of marijuana and the people who partake of the drug. And here are more excerpts from another article on Sept. 6th, 2010 (I can give source if needed):

"The Dutch government has announced that it does not have enough prisoners to fill its prisons, and as a result is closing down 8 prisons. ...The shutting down of these prisons are being attributed to an ever decreasing crime rate in the Netherlands.

These laws are a clear indication that the current drug-related legal system in most countries today is completely incorrect and could stand to see serious reform in the coming months and years.

There is a bad side to this action however – 1,200 prison workers will unfortunately see themselves being let go due to cutbacks."

Need I say more?

PORTUGAL:

Excerpts from a Cato Institute article:
Drug Decriminalization in Portugal:
Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies

April 2, 2009 (by Glenn Greenwald)

"Notably, decriminalization has become increasingly popular in Portugal since 2001. Except for some far-right politicians, very few domestic political factions are agitating for a repeal of the 2001 law. And while there is a widespread perception that bureaucratic changes need to be made to Portugal's decriminalization framework to make it more efficient and effective, there is no real debate about whether drugs should once again be criminalized. More significantly, none of the nightmare scenarios touted by preenactment decriminalization opponents — from rampant increases in drug usage among the young to the transformation of Lisbon into a haven for "drug tourists" — has occurred."

Links:

http://www.cannabislegal.de/international/se-yates.htm

http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2354008.ece/Tourists_no_longer_welcome_in_cannabis-selling_coffee_shops

http://www.lifemeanshealth.com/health-videos/health-politics/netherlands-closing-8-prisons-due-to-plummeting-crime-rates.html

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080

Sorry for the spectacularly long post but I felt it was needed to refute some misinformation being posted on this vine.

Have a nice day!

Guys. If you can maintain the balance of life and smoke pot.... I don't really care. But don't disregard everything that doesn't promote your lobbyist agenda.

Former pot smoker myself and there ARE negatives!

Everytime someone points them out... I can actually imagine the scrunched up face in a cloud of smoke screaming BS!

I haven't heard of a good argument yet to keep pot illegal. And many of these negatives ARE completely BS.

And I will say this again: with every post I have made it has been with me being completely sober. Haven't smoked weed in months.

I talk about legalization with my parents and their friends who are retired and of the babyboom generation. Some of them are very conservative. ALL of them agree that it's totally ridiculous that marijuana is illegal. 99 percent of the people that I talk to all agree that the time has long passed that marijuana should be legalized. The majority of people say that they want it legalized and that is coming from people who don't even smoke the stuff. People see through the BS that our government and the naysayers regurgitate when it comes to the evils of weed.

We live in a Democracy and when the majority of the people want something they should get it. But yet our government keeps lying to its people and many swallow the BS lock stock and barrel. And its all because of money and has nothing to do with these so-called negatives.

Even after I post the studies and the articles refuting the so-called negatives people still want to keep their heads up their rear-ends and deny the truth.

Amazing.

I don't think that it is a majority... BUT, I would be happy for a vote to rule. As long as ... pass or fail.... it does rule.

Well the reality is if it were to be voted on and it remained illegal, people are still going to do it anyway regardless of any law. I'm one of them. I will smoke weed until I die.

The really sad part, the really tragic part of marijuana being illegal is that the laws are ruining the lives of good decent people.

Hopefully one day, after the generation of "say no to drugs" dies off, we will finally see an end to the insanity of the drug war and marijuana prohibition.

I know you only accept your own answer and I am wasting my time, but look. At least make sure you are not (either directly or indirectly) buying cartel supplied drugs. If you are defiant enough to stand against the law, be as ethical as you can about it. ALL of us are responsible for what we consume. Can you deny that?

I agree totally. I can't prove where it comes from, but if it were legal I certainly would be able to then, wouldn't I?

See, there is the circular argument. You can't hide behind it. Not in good conscience.

1 in 20 Americans have either been in jail, are in jail, probation or parole. Mostly drugs or the violence associated with dealing.

A Latino friend of mine is here today and he wants me to tell you something. So I type his words..." Think this, you go for your pot. Imagine where it is coming from. Imagine the old people,or the kids... cutting the plant, putting it on donkeys and taking the donkeys down from the mountains. A whole day and is paid a very small money for the load. A few pesos. And sometimes the cartel is no pay... sometime they kill you and keep the donkey and the pot. Even the little kids. My point is see you go buy pot from these drug dealers, you bring the money for the killers, you buy their guns. You pay for the corruption bribe of the government and you pay for all these dangerous things they are doing. It pays no just for death of Mexicans, the money you pay is kill Americanos, too. Border patrol, missionaries, and touristos.

Think two times next time you buy your pot. Ask from where is it coming. Maybe he is no tell you... But try. Maybe the pot you smoke is have blood, either Mexican or American."

The problem is that Mexico does not want our troops.

that would be perfect, one problem though, the ghost of princess diana would complain to the UN and someone would have to be tried for intrnational right violations.

True, and as some countries are training rats to 'sniff-out' mines: the north-bound 2-legged ones will eventually figure it out too!

Hey fellas: goose step much?

Brian - Put down the smoke long enough to think about the real world. Every time you light up you are indirectly responsible for the violence in Mexico and the US.

Why don't you move to a "drug friendly" country? I can't name any large country that has open drug laws but I am sure you can find one.

Bill:

If you are for the continuation of the spectacularly failed and costly Drug War then YOU are directly responsible for the violence and deaths associated with illegal drug trafficking.

It is the American Drug War and drug prohibition that has caused all of this.

And where have we seen this before?

Alcohol Prohibition of the 20s/30s.

Yeah. That worked like a charm.

agre but take the top mans and results will taken places exemple corupt governement employers.

Not to mention he started the War on Drugs and the "Just Say No" campaign (well his wife did).

These are turning out to be working like a charm, aren't they?

I agree with deporting illegal Mexicans back to where they come from but that is not the only problem when you are talking about "anchor babies". If anyone reads the Los Angeles Times; there was an article several days ago that exposed Chinese women coming to this country for the sole purpose of having their baby here. This garantees citizenship for the brat in this country.

Congress needs to look into foriegners (all nationalities) who are pregnant coming to this country. Anyone who is pregnant needs to prove how far along they are and be issued visas good for one or two months max. If birth is expected in less then oneor two months then they are forbiddeen to enter.