One hundred percent correct, Nathan

No, Grace & dclady, we don't 'think vaccines are evil', we know they can be evil as some of us have kids who were harmed by vaccines. Please tell my daughter who received a vaccine and came down with a blood disorder (Thrombocytopenia~known to be caused by the vaccine she was given) that we just 'think' our kids might be harmed! There's no thinking to it~My child was harmed by a vaccine! Yes, we refused to have her further vaccinated as her doctor said it would not be a good idea.

Some illegals do bring disease (and bed bugs and other problems) into this country. Nothing in this article stated that this was the case. I am sure it was a US citizen traveling outside the USA who brought this in, and most likely, they'd been vaccinated. Vaccinations are not 100% effective. Please do your homework!

Back to the Middle Ages thanks to the nitwits who drink Jenny McCarthy's kool aid.

"we know they can be evil"

I'm sorry your child was hurt by a vaccine but as recently as the turn of the previous century (i.e. the end of the 1800's) the chances of a child surviving until their 18th birthday in London was 1 in 2. Four of my fathers 12 siblings died before their 9th birthday. My own older sister died before she was 7 days old. Now, infant mortality in the U.S. is 7 per 100,000 live births (mostly due to premature births). But there are still 31 countries where at least 10% of children die before they reach 6 years old. Why? Primarily vaccines & sanitation.

If we stop vaccinating, thousands more children will die each year.

Another result of our open Borders; Mexico, and other 3rd world country's, do not have vaccinations readily available in the poorer areas of their country, when will we ever learn that open borders is insane !

You got that right. If they come in illegally they can't be checked for illnesses. Just turning our country into a 3rd world country one illegal at a time.

I wouldn't call people twits. Virtually every medical procedure has some risk, and that includes vaccines. The decision to authorize vaccines is preceded by statistical studies using the best available scientific data to assess risk versus benefit. Because most vaccines and the act of vaccinating have some risk, when most people in a population are vaccinated against a disease, it's often within an individual's self-interest to avoid vaccination. So people avoiding vaccination are at some level making an "intelligent" albeit selfish decision when vaccination rates are nearly 100%.

However, as increasing numbers of people buy into avoiding vaccination, there comes a tipping point (maybe 0.1%, 1%, 5%, or 10% of the population, depending on the vaccine and severity and ease of transmission of a disease) when the risk of the disease becomes greater than the risk of vaccination. In terms of self-interest, the "stupid" thing I observe about people avoiding vaccination is that they try with religious fervor to convince others to avoid vaccination. From the standpoint of rational selfishness, one would be best off avoiding vaccination for one's self & progeny but tell everyone else to get vaccinated.

As a final note, I lived a couple of years town in a third world country where diseases such as measles are endemic. When accompanying the nurses to surrounding communities for vaccination campaigns, I never observed anyone voicing hesitation about vaccination. When people in every community have seen kids and adults die and others scarred, brain damaged or paralyzed by common childhood diseases, that is tangible evidence of risk from disease that one doesn't realize in a society with 90% or higher immunization rates.

Thrombocytopenia. There is an incidence of lowered blood platelets and thrombocytopenia after MMR vaccination, about 1 in 30,000 according to one study I'm looking at, usually with acute symptoms. In maybe 3/4 of the cases symptoms disappear in a month. 10% of cases observe severe symptoms longer than 6 months. Note that there are a lot of causes of thrombocytopenia, including the respective diseases.

It's not just those who enter our country illegally who bring with them diseases.

The Twin Cities has an alarmingly high number of Somalis living there. Measles are on the rise as well. 50% of new measles cases are Somali children. Two Somali children have died from measles in the United States.

The increase of Somalis coming to America is alarming. Somalia is a haven for terrorist organizations including al-Quaeda. Somalis living here are recruiters for these organizations. In one small WI town just across the border from the Twin Cities the Somalis are now 25% of the population. That's roughly a 1000 Somalis in one small town.

We need to close our borders and close them now.

Please read the article again. Many of these cases came from developed countries, not third-world nations. France was one source. Closing our borders to illegals WILL NOT solve the problem. Vaccinating our children will.

Even if some children cannot be vaccinated, having the rest of the people around them will. The problem is when SO MANY of the children have not been vaccinated. Those unvaxed children are becoming a greater part of the population, and "herd immunity" is fast disappearing. IT IS NOT SAFE to leave your child unvaccinated and rely on the other children being vaccinated to protect him.

@LoriSmnith

1) Diseases do not have the ability to check passports so they know to come in with illegals. In fact, all studies have shown that illegal immigrants tend to be far healthier than the average since most are young, male and in good health. The idea that somehow they are bringing in measles is just codeword racism.

2) Bed bugs are even worse. The major outbreaks of bed bugs have been in 3-5 star hotels such as Hilton and Four Seasons (both of whom have major multi-site outbreaks recently.) So your contention is that illegal immigrants come here and stay in 5-star hotels? Silly to the point that it too is codeword racism.

3) Thrombocytopenia is just a big name for low white count. There are literally hundreds of possible causes, most of them hereditary. What you are most likely talking about is Idiopathic Thrombocytopenia Purpura (ITP.) "Idiopathic" means rising from an unknown cause. There have been a number of studies on postulated the vaccination-ITP link and NO associatioon has ever been found.

Here is a link to read about thrombocytopenia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrombocytopenia

And here is a link to just one of the studies that found no connection:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-4M9HX09-3&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F26%2F2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1742020394&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=fb205e002982c5e1f74750563a5a2988&searchtype=a

4) This country is about 50th in the world in health care and 65th in the world in immuno-prevention (vaccination standards.) It would be much more likely that Americans take disease to other countries than that they bring it from other countries. Go read the infectious disease guidelines for travelers on the web sites of other countries. They tell you explicitly to get booster shots before going to the US because of the poor public health situation in the US.

5) No one ever said that vaccinations were 100% effective. They aren't and never were. The operative principle is that of "herd immunity." Once about 70% of a demographic group are vaccinated, the transmission of an infectious disease falls to levels below what will sustain it to the point of becoming pandemic or epidemic.

6) And no one has ever said that vaccinations have no risks of side effects. It has been well known since the first systematic vaccinations in the 1790's that when you tinker with the body's immune system that you can evoke complex reactions. This was commented on in Chinese medicine as long ago as the 1300's and the 1500's in Muslim medicine. The "greater good" of herd immunity saves many millions of times as many lives as are damaged. If I had that kind of odds at the lottery, I would buy every ticket I could afford.

New links between childhood vaccinations and various childhood ailments are being proposed by lawyers every day. They are just in it for the money. The reason that vaccinations are such a target for lawyers is that vaccination-related injuries are litigated though a special court system with extremely low thresholds of proof. If an ailment has ever been proven to be associated with a particular vaccination, that is sufficient to get a very generous award without proving anything more than that your child had ailment x and that ailment x is a known side effect of the vaccination. This is a much lower standard of evidence than is seen in civil cases and is incredibly easy to meet.

But the scurry to get rich by suing misleads lots of people into not vaccinating their kids. Too bad, because it is these lawyers and these parents who are guilty of manslaughter in causing the death of other children who contracted entirely preventable diseases.

And this goes back to American Exceptionalism as a political dogma. Blaming everything bad on "foreigners" and "illegal immigrants" and "blacks" without a shred of proof is stupid and especially so in the medical area. We have a third-rate medical system that does a very poor job in critical areas --- malpractice, infant mortality, universal availability, cost, elder care, and trauma care. The idea that somehow Americans are the best at everything is silly beyond any rationalization. You don't have to do much traveling abroad to realize that the US is slipping slowly behind the world just as the British started slipping after WWI.

But there are things Americans are good at. Stirring up hatred comes to mind. Whining comes to mind. Telling lies in public forums for no good reason comes to mind.

Chris:
Your point #2:
Bed bugs are even worse. The major outbreaks of bed bugs have been in 3-5 star hotels such as Hilton and Four Seasons (both of whom have major multi-site outbreaks recently.) So your contention is that illegal immigrants come here and stay in 5-star hotels? Silly to the point that it too is codeword racism.

Sure, maybe a few of those affluent people are bringing in the little critters, but who is in the background cleaning these hotel rooms and suites? NOT those upper-class people, that is for sure. Bedbugs CAN be transported in people's clothing and deposited in those rooms by the staff....

Did you even read the article? The outbreak is because of foreigners, not native born Americans who might not vaccinate. In any case measles used to be a minor childhood disease that everybody got.

God Bless the racisist states of America.

There are a few things going on in this situation that should be mentioned. First, it's proven that there is no connection between autism and vaccinations, but idiots will continue to believe. What is far more likely to be the cause is the food that modern women eat, yes women, as they are the carriers of babies. All of the preservatives, chemicals and just plain unnatural things that people are consuming every day can not be good for them or a baby.

Second, people from other countries DO bring diseases to the US. How the hell do you think something called West Nile Virus came to the US? Stop being so niave, people that come from third world countries where little importance is placed on cleanliness and sanitary conditions live the same way here. Don't believe it? Come to Queens and watch the Asian women drop bags of garbage out their windows into the pales below with no concern about whether or not it makes it in.

When people in every community have seen kids and adults die and others scarred, brain damaged or paralyzed by common childhood diseases, that is tangible evidence of risk from disease that one doesn't realize in a society with 90% or higher immunization rates.

You are so right. When the polio vaccines were introduced, my parents eagerly embraced them for their children because they saw all around them the ravages of that disease. The risks from the vaccinations were minimal compared to the risks from the disease. When you don't know anyone who suffers from a disease, it is easy to dismiss it and the need for vaccination.

Quote from the CDC BEFORE the measles vaccine had become routine. Not much fearmongering.

For centuries the measles virus has maintained a remarkably stable ecological relationship with man. The clinical disease is a characteristic syndrome of notable constancy and only moderate severity. Complications are infrequent, and, with adequate medical care, fatality is rare.

Now, loads of disease fearmongering going on. Why the change in attitude? Could ideology be at play?

Polio was always an extremely serious disease, as was smallpox. That doesn't automatically mean that it is always beneficial to vaccinate for everything, especially given the schedule we have today, in which very young children are given many vaccines at once. There ARE known risks to vaccines. They can cause a very high fever with attendant side effects, for starters. You're mixing apples and oranges to compare polio to measles.

@ Chris

Actually, thrombocytopenia is the fancy name for low platelet count, which limits the bloods ability to clot in response to injury. You are correct in that there are many causes.

Over 90% of polio infections were subclinical.

so? The plain fact is that the complications of polio are WAY more likely to cause life changing or life endangering consequences than trivial diseases like chicken pox.

Chickenpox is not trivial.

I'm 55. Everyone I know of my generation has had it. It might be a big deal for a working mom to have to miss a few days work (boo hoo/sarcasm alert) but few children have serious side effects. BTW, my husband never had chicken pox but he DID end up with shingles. I know it's the same virus but they don't automatically go together. (Shingles is preventable within 24 hours if you get to the ER in time, but he was too busy being a macho fool.)

It can be a big deal. I had a friend from the Phillipines who didn't get the chickenpox until she was 13, at the same time as her 16-year-old sister. Apparently, it isn't endemic there, and she didn't move here until she was about 8 and managed to avoid infection until then.

They both had to stay in a dark room for a week - no TV or anything, as the light hurt their eyes. They were both a lot sicker (achier, more feverish, worse skin lesions) in general than those of us who had the chickenpox earlier, and took longer to recover. The varicella vaccine wasn't available then, but would surely have been a good idea for them.

I think you're being a bit harsh on working moms, and way too easy on working dads, whom you don't even mention. Some working moms (and dads) don't get paid sick leaveor personal days, and missing a few days of work might mean being short on the rent or the electric bill. I've never been in that position, but I kow plenty of people who have been. It's a job, not a vacation.

I think one parent should stay home, and I really don't care which one it is. There were times when my husband stayed home, and other times when we tagged team it. In fact, he did a midlife career change into allied health so we COULD tag team it.

Great that you could, and chose to. But it's not for everyone, and your way isn't the only right way.

Okay, so all kids should be placed at risk to support the yuppie lifestyle?

No, everybody should do exactly as you think they should. You are perfect. No circumstance could possible justify doing otherwise, or having a sick child. Loss of job, cuts in hours and pay necessitating both parents to work, older kids bringing diseases home from school - all absolutely inexcusable.

"Serious complications from chickenpox include bacterial infections which can involve many sites of the body including the skin, tissues under the skin, bone, lungs (pneumonia), joints, and blood. Other serious complications are due directly to infection with the varicella-zoster virus and include viral pneumonia, bleeding problems, and infection of the brain (encephalitis). Many people are not aware that before a vaccine was available approximately 10,600 persons were hospitalized and 100 to 150 died as a result of chickenpox in the U.S. every year."

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/dis-faqs-gen.htm

I am 29 and I survived the chicken pox, post people my age consider it a rite of passage for childhood, but it CAN be a big deal, there have been a number of deaths. If your child died from it, I doubt you'd say it's not a big deal. I support chicken pox vaccinations 100% even though I never got one.

Loss of job, cuts in hours and pay necessitating both parents to work, older kids bringing diseases home from school - all absolutely inexcusable.

While it is perfectly fine for moms of older kids (not infants) to work, you're making a huge mistake if you buy a home that requires both incomes to pay for. The odds of one you losing your job is DOUBLE that of one person, obviously, and who do you have left to send to work? The kids? The dog? When I have worked, my pay went for extras or into the bank. Our house is paid for. It's the inner city home we could afford, not the suburban house we couldn't. I do not even own a car, and my husband always buys used cars for cash. I'm a very responsible person, actually. Stay out of debt and you will actually have choices in life.

Oom just keep your head in the sand. That way you dont have to see REALITY. Its not always possible for one parent to be a stay at home parent.

I have choices because I make a good income from my business. I could not have closed down my business for a year when my son was an infant and reasonably have expected it would do as well if I reopened it a year later. And it's a good thing I didn't, as my son's father lost his job and was out of work for almost 18 months. His job provided our health insurance, a benefit not easy to overlook and throw away in order for him to stay home.

I have a house in the country (no inner-city in our area, and a home generally costs more in town) where my son can play outside without my having to watch him like a hawk. He has a big yard to play in, good neighbors, no traffic, and quiet at night. My car is paid off, I'm paying ahead of schedule on my mortgage, and I have no credit card debt. He has a college fund, and I am putting a lot away for retirement, to avoid him having to support me when I retire. We travel, have room for a garden, and he goes to good public schools. My business allows me to make a good income while working part-time, so we get to do fun and educational activities when he's not in school. We couldn't have done most of this if he hadn't been in day care, as I am now his primary financial support. He's healthy and has a very good life BECAUSE I worked.

And then there's the flip side. Moms working as waitresses, and dads working construction, who frequently don't get paid if they take off sick, or stay home to care for a sick child. People whose jobs were downsized in the last few years when the economy tanked. I know people in the construction industry who were making money hand over fist 5 years ago, who are now on the edge of bankruptcy. They might have jobs, but are bringing home less money because their commissions are lower. The one income that supported them comfortably in 2005 doesn't cover their expenses today. So, their wives have to return to work. Have you no sympathy for these folks?

Okay, so why couldn't your child's father stay home with his kid since he was unemployed? Health insurance is no excuse, it goes away when the job does unless you have COBRA. I never said it had to be the mom who was home. My husband played "Mr. Mom" for a time and I was fine with that.

Inner city housing costs WAY less than suburban housing in most places. My house cost $40,000 (no, I'm not missing a zero) in 1996. A house in the burbs would have been at least twice that. I can walk to three major universities, the city's main library branch, a park with turkeys and deer, and a public pool, not to mention several museums and many of our finest ethnic restaurants and bodegas. I do need a car. I think people who choose to live in a rural area are fools, unless, of course, they are actual farmers.

Not all of us have the fortune to be born in an urban area .... Where I live the air is clean, the water is drinkable without going to the treatment plant first (a major water bottler gets their water from the same aquafir I get my tap water from) but the closest "city" is 2 hours away...

Our houses dont have bars on the windows, our police department doesnt have a gang unit because we dont have gangs and our average number of murders per year is way less than 1.

Cities have there benefits, but so do rural areas. Even if you only think farmers should live there, they cant do it all on thier own. They need markets, supply shops, schools, doctors, etc.

Again take you head out of the sand and see what REALITY is. Your fantasy world doesnt exist for most in REAL life.

I meant that my ex's job supplied the insurance while he was employeed. As to why he wouldn't stay home with him when he was unemployed, well, that's one of many reasons that he is my ex. I then provided our insurance, but, because his group rate was better, we paid a lot more money for a lot less coverage.

As property values go, well, the rents I hear in DC (nearest city) are atrocious compared to rents here. Property values increase exponentially as you get closer to the city - even one county away, my house would probably go for 1.5 times as much as I paid for it. My mortgage is not paid off, but I pay ahead. I have a rainy-day fund, spend little on clothes or cars, and have plenty of friends willing cut firewood on my property (inexpensive heat source) if I feed them dinner.

I agree with Genenut regarding rural life. I also live about 1.5 to 2 hours away from the nearest city, and wouldn't want to be any closer. I can walk down the streets of the town I work in without worrying about being mugged. Two years ago, a young man was shot to death by his girlfriend's dad; it was the first murder in the county in, I believe, 4 or 5 years. There are unfortunately some gangs (mostly offshoots of gangs from DC), but their presence is not large, and those not actually involved in them have so far not been threatened by them. I don't have to listen to the neighbors fighting at 2 AM, or worry if I forget to lock my car.

Just about every time I go to the grocery store or a restaurant, I meet someone I know, most on a first-name basis. At restaurants we visit a lot, we don't even have to order; the waitress already knows what kind of salad dressing I like and what we want to drink. My busniness associate is a county supervisor, and I know several others on the Board of Supervisors as well, so I KNOW that my government official are representing me and that my voice is heard, because I talk to several of them weekly.

I live about half a mile from a national forest, and there are lots of back roads where I can walk or bike. I grow a lot of my own vegetables in summer. I can let my cats outside because I know they won't be hit by a car. It takes me 10 minutes to get from home to work, and I may only see about 5 or 6 cars on the way - daily traffic jams just don't happen here.

I don't think city-dwellers are fools, but having lived in a large town (never a city), I would not voluntarily go back. There is more than one way to live well, you know. Don't be so close-minded.

Not all of us have the fortune to be born in an urban area ....

I wasn't born here. I moved here. This is now legal without asking permission of the Czar Nicholas. (sarcasm)

I too meet people I know every day, at the little bodegas where they remember your name, at my favorite restaurants (only they tend to be Indian or Vietnamese, not greasy spoon diners), on the bus, at the library. I even know a lot of the homeless by their first name. Everyone in the city isn't a cold, mean stranger.

I do understand and sympathize about your ex, who sounds like a jerk.

Thanks for your sympathy regarding the ex. I understand your liking for the city and its conveniences, but could never live there happily myself. I have lived in a large town (never a city), and felt confined. When I have visited cities, the noise and bustle grate on me. Just as city life suits you, country life suits me, and is well within my budget.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Anyway, as Genenut said, farmers have to farm in rural areas, and they need products and services the same as city-dwellers. It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it;)

Actually, a recent article in Scientific America said we could grow our food in huge urban skyscrapers. It would mean no need for pesticides because it was indoors, it would save water and pollution, and there would be plenty of workers plus easy transport to population centers. The bottom floor would be a fancy restaurant plus a grocery store, both completely organic. You couldn't raise cows there, I admit. Then again, I raise giant show rabbits in the middle of the city....(About 20 pounds each.) I don't eat them, though. They are my lawn service.

Cool way to mow your lawn. I know people who keep goats for the same thing.

I guess I'm a bit skeptical about raising enough food for the world in such a manner, as well as our ability to finance the infrastructure for it. I'm also not sure about indoors=insect free. There are roaches pretty much everywhere there are humans, and settling of the structure would cause cracks that allow in other bugs, too. Also, new construction leads to pollution, and the parking lots that would be necessary for these skyscrapers would decrease the soil's ability to filter out pollutants before they entered the water supply. That's a problem we've had in towns nearby (extended DC suburbs) that experienced rapid growth.

And then, as you said, there's the issue of livestock. Not that I don't think we would all be a lot healthier if we ate less meat, but no, we wouldn't be able to raise large animals that way. There's also the issue of dairy products, which I would hate to give up.

It's just an issue of personality differences. The city is too noisy and fast-paced for me. It oppresses me. I enjoy visiting, and appreciate the shopping, dining, and cultural experiences that are hard to come by in the country. I can see why you like the city. But I'm always glad to leave the city behind and come home to the mountains.

BTW, regarding the restaurants, not all country town restaurants are greasy spoons. We really only have one in our town, and we do have access to ethnic cuisine. Not in the variety available in cities, but it is available. A short drive (relatively speaking, about 25 miles), and you can find food from just about any culture. I try to experiment and cook at home the foods not readily available here, so I don't have to go out to have them.

As a matter of living expenses, I'm doing fine. On one income, no less. Two would be easier, but there is very little I can think of that I want and don't already have. Country living isn't necessarily extravagant because a car is a necessity, and it is much more expensive to live in the nearest city to me. Last I heard several years ago, a 1-bedroom apartment in DC rented for $1200; I was able to rent a 3-bedroom, 2-bath house for $825, with a 3/4 acre yard. Also, it is difficult to establish yourself in business in a city - the market tends to be saturated. Here, I was able to buy an established business, hang my shingle, and jump right in without missing a step. My colleagues in the city, and even in nearby larger towns, complain that business is slow and they need a larger clientele. Not a problem for me.

Maybe it helps that my city is Pittsburgh, PA which IS in the mountains, sort of anyway. I have seen several deer in the city limits, many turkeys, and we once saw an entire turkey "family" crossing a major street. (They are supposed to be dead beat dads, but someone forgot to tell this particular Tom, who seemed very proud.) Hawks and owls and of course groundhogs and the like a normal sight, although I admit I haven't seen a possum since I left Virginia. (And they are so cute.) I do live near a large wooded park. I wouldn't necessarily be as happy in downtown Manhattan. Even when I lived in the DC area, I had to be someplace near a big park. So I guess we are not so different as we appear. I just hate the idea of being DEPENDENT on a car, like I'd starve without one.

If push came to shove, I could bike to work and the store. I think it's about 7 miles or so to work, maybe 8 or 9 to the nearest grocery store. I'd be pretty sweaty, though, and there aren't any bike paths, so I would worry about safety. I feel the same way about being dependent on public transit - I like being able to go anywhere on my schedule, not the bus's or subway's. Many people who live in town do walk everywhere, and I generally do if I have errands to run on my lunch break.

Hope you're being sarcastic about possums - they are one of few furry animals I can't feel a thing for; mean, ugly creatures! I might even trade the whippoorwill in my yard for some traffic noise - he's pretty loud at night.

Common ground!

You would be amazed how many possum defenders there are. Some people can't have cats, often due to allergies. and they regard the possum in the tree as their "kitty".

Well, I have heard them hiss, and they fight like wildcats when cornered (thought they were supposed to "play possum"?) so I guess they're a bit similar. Blech!

You do realize that here, in the good ol' USA, there are American citizens who refuse to vaccinate their children too? That there are people, who probably live down the street from you, who think vaccines are evil, and don't give them to their children? But thanks for trying to blame this on the the immigrants - do you also blame the melting of the glaciers on them? Or how about potholes in the road - is that also illegal immigrants fault?

no melting glaciers are osama obamas fault oh no wait its bush s fault

Actually, it's your fault, Mike. I saw what you did.

Hi heels,

Any child registering for school does not have an immunization if the parents fill out a form stating it's against their religious beliefs or other cases.

In the meantime the House has cut funding to the CDC which provided free vaccinations to those who couldn't afford it, while Palin makes the comment that the $4 billion dollars in oil subsidies shouldn't be cut because that amount was only a "drop in the bucket." What hypocrites.

Mexico has an over 95% vaccination rate for measles. So, please don't make any assumptions that Mexico "doesn't care" about the health of their citizens -- and don't erroneously assume that it is Mexican immigrants that are bringing measles to the United States.

http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PNADU713.pdf

@Grace,

You are exactly wrong! The United States has the lowest vaccination rate of any industrialized country. Mexico and Canada and every Central American country has a higher vaccination rate than the United States. Every South American country has virtually 100% childhood vaccination compliance and most other countries give more different shots than we do.

This is a significant reason why the US is around 50th in heath care outcomes in the world and has the worst infant mortality in the Western hemisphere.

I do not believe that any child should be allowed to attend any public school of public function if they have not been properly vaccinated. They are simply a danger to other children and adults in a way that is a personal choice by their ill-informed parents.

The article blamed foreigners, not the few Americans who don't believe in vaccination. BTW, some children CANNOT be vaccinated due to medical conditions.

HiHeels, please put through the link that shows Obama saying 'tax on miles for personal vehicles'.

I swear, if you are referencing Drudge and Fox your post should be flagged right off. The White House has officially said that a mileage tax is not a policy that the Obama administration would support: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42919365/ns/politics-more_politics/

The mileage tax bit you are referencing was a proposal outlined by the Dept. of Transportation and I would expect it to get panned by anyone hoping to get elected, but of course Drudge and Fox are going to play politics with the news a usual.

And.. WTF does that have to do with measles - stay on topic.

That there are people, who probably live down the street from you, who think vaccines are evil, and don't give them to their children?

So what? Please think this through for once in your life instead of merely asking "how high" when your doctor says "jump". He just went to medical school. He's not omniscient. If vaccines work, and your family is vaccinated, none of you will get the disease no matter how many people go unvaccinated. So it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS IF YOUR NEIGHBORS DON'T VACCINATE.

I did vaccinate my kids, but I stand up for nonvaccinators because I homeschool. Some people think this is abusive, too. This year my 14 year old read over 50 books, most of them classics by authors like Dickens, Joyce, and Dostoevsky. Yes, he read "Das Kapital" too--I may be a Republican but I'm not in favor of censorship. I didn't tell him to read any of these books--I just left them around. He did it on his own, in addition to all the normal middle school subjects. Do YOUR kids love learning to this extent?

I see nothing stupid in the proposition that the approximately US are less likely to vaccinated that legal residents of the country. That seems quite reasonable to me considering that illegal aliens are more likely to be poor and uneducated and therefore less likely to obtain vaccinations either because they can't afford to see a doctor and receive vaccinations or are ignorant of their value.

Namecalling and personal attack is a poor way to argue your point "god".

They did not use the word "illegal aliens." It is written, "Just about all U.S. outbreaks were sparked by people bringing it here from other countries."

They were being "politically correct."

So, are you assuming that any and all people that visit the US do so illegally? Besides, the article clearly states that one of the outbreaks was caused by a child that visited Kenya and RETURNED to the US, and that Europe (I'm sure we get a lot of illegals from France) has a major problem with the disease. Or did you miss that in your zeal to blame the whole thing on illegal aliens?

... let me get this right??!! you are assuming that i am assuming??!!.... to assume - makes an AS$ out of U and ME. Stop assuming. it was a quote.

Poorer countries tend to have a much higher vaccination rate that the United States because they have such limited public health funds. Because of this they have to spend their scarce funding where it will absolutely do the most good. And that means mandatory, universal vaccinations. When people like Gates Foundation and the World Health Organization put public health money in a poor country, it is most aimed at disease prevention --- vaccinations.

In a country like Costa Rica, they simply have no use for arguing whether some nitwit contends that chemicals in vaccinations are causing mad cow disease. Their rules are simple. If you do not have your ki9ds vaccinated you go to jail (and they get vaccinated anyway.)

In other areas, such as infant mortality, they do likewise. They make sure that every pregnant woman receives pre-natal vitamins that include significant folic acid. It is the biggest step a country can take toward reducing the infant mortality rate. Costa Rica has half the infant mortality rate that the United States has.

Blame it on foreigners? It is Americans who are rapidly becoming a infectious disease pariah. Many countries have stopped issuing automatic visas for Americans without an up-to-date shot record that reflects the immunizations that every US military service member is required to have. I watched a family get turned back at the Kingston airport in Jamaica because they could not supply proof of immunizations.

There are people who never see a doctor their whole lives. It's naive to assume that "everyone" in a third world country gets vaccinated.

Chris-749391, good, maybe they'll stop coming here if they're afraid of catching the cooties.

@"god"

Since you didn't get it the first time I'll repeat the message:

Name calling and personal attack is a poor way to argue your point "god".

I agree with you that "Stupid people never see their own stupidity." You prove that point admirably in your posts.

The funding for the free clinics have been cut by the House budget.

rescuedog, and isn't that a shame?

This is what happens when people get their medical information from eye candy.

Stop, I try to meet my maker(S) at least a couple of times a year. I wish I lived closer, I miss them a lot.

It is obvious you have been lucky and never had a child adversely affected by a vaccine. MMR and pertussis vaccines have both been indicted for the deaths of many children, including giving children adverse reactions causing blood disorders, brain damage, neurological damage, and other problems. My child was a victim of a blood disorder directly linked to a vaccine (DTP) and no, she was not further vaccinated as it would have compromised her system even further. Autism is not the only fctor that parents use in these decisions, especially those of us who have had children harmed by vaccines.

Lori, I am truly sorry about your child, I really am. No one ever claimed vaccinations are without risk. EVERYTHING in life carries some risk; from medical procedures and medications to driving a car. Yes, there will be a few children who unfortunately have adverse reactions and suffer harm from vaccines, hence the vaccine fund. But in medicine, as in every other part of life, we must look at the Benefit vs. Risk, and for vaccines, the benefits FAR outweigh the risks. Exponentially more people will be saved than will be harmed.

Sure you have the right to not get YOUR child vaccinated but you DONT have the right to infect MY child (or me). If your selfishness causes my child any harm, I think that you should be tracked down and SUED (if not prosecuted) to cover the costs of any medical care incurred (to include lost work days from staying home with said sick child or being quarantined) because you were selfish.

In the US, parents are required to provide food, clothing, shelter and medical care for their children. I also think that subjecting a child to the misery of a preventable disease instead of vaccinating them should lead to a prosecution for ABUSE. One day or less recovery from immunization or WEEKS/MONTHS recovery (if at all - some die you know) from preventable illness.

@tunatofu

If a vaccine works as intended then a person's decision not to vaccinate themselves or their children should have no impact on the health of a person who was vaccinated against it.

For example, if I vaccinated my family against measles but you didn't, then you contracted measles and exposed my family, my family should be protected from your decision not to vaccinate and concurrent infection because we chose to vaccinate ourselves.

Your proposed scenario is illogical, unless the premise that a vaccine offers you protection against a disease is false. So assuming that premise is true, those who choose to vaccinate our children have nothing to worry about.

Yay justathoughty! Someone with common sense! :)

@Justathought-

Nice try, but your logic excludes those subset of children who aren't old enough to be vaccinated who then contract a disease from an unvaccinated child. That is very much something to worry about. I think you'd be singing a different tune if your newborn died of measles because some idiot decided it was their "right" to not vaccinate their child. I completely agree with the posters who say it should be criminal to not vaccinate.

Justathought - fine, your kid wasn't vaccinated and exposes my kid who was...perhaps my kid won't get sick...but yours is. who is paying? guarantee you are not paying 100% of the cost out of pocket. the rest of us bear the burden of your poor decision. so, those of us who were responsible enough to protect our children still have something to worry about, namely your health care costs, which are still rising up up up....

justathought - You're assuming the other children are vaccinated, that herd immunity will protect both your unvaccinated child and others who cannot receive vaccines for whatever reason (immune disorders, etc.).

Given the numbers of people who are refusing vaccines, how long do you suppose that herd immunity will still exist? That number has to remain very high, and the number of people who are refusing to vaccinate is rising at an alarming rate.

Relative- you are absolutely spot on about that! The children under 1 yr and with immune deficiencies (whether a disease or in chemo, etc) are THE most at risk, they aren't eligible for vaccine protection and are being placed in danger because of those who choose to fear the evidence that vaccines ARE protective. Yes, there are risks with ALL things, but the risks FAR outweigh the benefits! The fears were created based on poor research and spread like wild-fire because they touched on a parent's instinct to protect their child. When the fear of the vaccines outweighed the fear of the disease people made the choice for themselves (and consequently placing others in danger) to steer clear of them regardless of how much evidence after their decision was presented to refute their fears. The evidence is overwhelmingly for the vaccines. It's time to stop the fear and paranoia and get back to protecting our kids. The money soent for research in this area could have probably solved the autism question long ago had it been channeled properly!

Superstitious antivaccination inDUHviduals have short memories about how bad the disease epidemics are. I remember my cousin wearing a leg brace all through school because she was crippled by polio. She died at 60 from complications.

I would be very hesitant before feeling any sympathy for @LoriSmith without doping a little research first.

She cites as a definite link (DPT vaccination to ITP) one that does not exist. It is called IDIOPATHIC Thrombocytopenia Purpura because they do not have any idea what causes it. That's what idiopathic means. They do know that virtually all ITP is hereditary or familial since it runs in families.

The vaccination courts (who have an extremely low threshold of proof) do not compensate vaccine victims for ITP related to childhood vaccinations. The same bunch in Britain that was trying to stop childhood vaccinations because of supposed autisim-vaccine links is the same group that is pushing the ITP link. (And even with them it is the MMR shot, not the DPT shot that they are targeting.)

It is the height of folly to try to make this sort of cause and effect associations with no proof. Science for 3500 years has known that correlation does not equal causation. It could just as easily be stated that diapers cause all childhood diseases.

The risk of dying from measles is so low as to be a joke. You take more of a risk when you get into your car.

What's sad is the MMR (which is featured in this article) has never contained thimerosal in the first place, which is the big bad 'evil' substance the researcher in the UK labeled as causing autism (which if you hadn't heard was completely rejected even by his co-authors).

From the CDC:

Do MMR vaccines contain thimerosal?

No, measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccines do not and never did contain thimerosal. Varicella (chickenpox), inactivated polio (IPV), and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines have also never contained thimerosal.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal_faqs.html

@cg-You are correct, I have operated from the context of tunatofu's wording the example as a child as opposed to infant/newborn thusly excluding the subset of children who have not yet been vaccinated but intend to from this argument. Had Tunatofu posted with more specific wording then I'd have not rebutted their argument. As to your accusation that I'd sing a different tune if it were my newborn affected, 5 years ago it was my 5 month old infected with pertussis before she'd had enough vaccinations to develop a resistance. So my tune is still very much the same and comes from a place of logic not emotion or fear. Citing the article with a death rate of 2 per 1000 cases and an average infection rate of 50 cases per year, that equals roughly 1 death per 10 years in America due to measles. With a birth rate of 4.1 million per year (2005) that gives us a death rate of 1 per 41 million live births. So the odds are pretty solid that none of our kids are gonna die from measles right now. That particular portion of your argument doesn't hold much weight.

@mmmmbeer (ps I love beer too) Your point is valid however the average cost of treatment for a case of measles is in the $250-$300 range according to the published research I don't think it will have a measurable impact on insurance premiums now or in the future given that's roughly 2-3 visits to a primary care doctor.

@relativeofpoliovictim-I was not referencing or assuming herd immunity in any way shape or form. I was arguing in absence of herd immunity, that a single person vaccinated against a disease has no need to worry about those who choose not to. Also if you will please observe in my example it is my children who are vaccinated.

Lori-

Don't take this the wrong way-I really am empathetic-I have children too and I can understand that from your p.o.v, even though on the whole vaccines have prevented disease... it does not change things for the small percentage of parents who have children that really were harmed by these vaccines. To put it in perspective though, look up diptheria...it is a terrible disease...and imagine if people stopped vaccinating their children because of the few like your daughter that were harmed. Then all of our children, including yours, would be at risk...many more would be harmed by the diseases than those harmed by vaccines.

Nice try, but your logic excludes those subset of children who aren't old enough to be vaccinated who then contract a disease from an unvaccinated child

Yep, and we all have to make our own decisions. Here's a thought, keep a newborn at home as much as possible, where he or she belongs. It's downright evil to make your career more important than the child you CHOSE to have. Stay home for a year, and then you don't have to worry. Everyone really knows this is the right thing to do.

And when grandma who is carrying the disease (she's not sick since she has immunity but that doesn't stop her from carrying it) brings it with her when she comes to visit her new grandchild ? What about when mom needs to go out grocery shopping? Can she tell all the other shoppers to stay home so her child doesnt catch something? What about what their older sibling brings home from school? Your logic is flawed and impractical.

And for the record many moms work not for a "career" but to actually pay the mortgage/rent, buy food and keep the house lit and warm. Choosing to not work means choosing to be homeless for many of us. Thats not a choice.

Everyone knows that infants don't have much immunity, and they were never supposed to be around a lot of people for that reason among others. (Also, why would you leave a child too young to talk around strangers? He can't even tell you if he's being abused!) I moved from DC to Pittsburgh because it was so much more affordable--and even in DC, we shared our home with another young family. It was actually idyllic to have two babies and two moms in the house. We were each other's live in nanny. I could run out to the store without having to drag my son along in the cold and the rain. Also we had lots of pets, which was good for his immune system. You do too have choices, lots of them.

If grandma had chicken pox, she is already immune to it. People used to go out of their way to expose kids to these childhood ailments so they would have NATURAL immunity. Sorry, but I have to assume natural is best. There has to be SOME reason for the epidemic of asthma and allergies that are ruining so many people's lives.

You just dont get it. Short of putting baby in a bubble the only effective protection is HERD immunity. Vaccines achieve that. Anyone who enters a house could potentially be carrying a disease a baby is too young to be immune to. It doesn't matter if the adult is immune, they are just the carrier.

RSV which they make a vaccine for can KILL a 2 week old and only give grandma the sniffles. Pertussis can KILL an infant and grandma might not even realize the kid who coughed on her in the supermarket earlier that day is the reason why he grandchild is fighting for thier life since they are immune and wont get sick.

Unless hospitals are going to start issuing bubbles to protect infants from ALL human contact for the first year of their life vaccines are needed to protect them.

I would agree to that ONLY if the gov't would mandate that the vaccine were guaranteed to not contain any preservatives such as mercury derivatives. Many people have legitimate questions about it, and they deserve to be recognized. These heavy metals do not ever leave your body, they accumulate over a lifetime of exposure from many, many sources and we shouldn't be deliberately adding another source.

There is more mercury in a serving of Tuna fish than there ever was in childhood vaccines.

But beyond that the thimerisol was removed from childhood vaccines as of 2001.

There isnt any mercury in childhood vaccines now. stop spreading mis information and contributing to the misplaced fear about them.

JKRfromTexas~So who is to blame and who gets the criminal penalties when vaccines cause disease and death? When the live virus (oral) polio cvaccine was in use the only children who got polio were those who got it from the vaccine, that is why it is no longer given orally, but is now a dead virus given intramuscularly.

My daughter contracted a blood disorder calledThrombocytopenia which was caused by her Pertussis vaccine, who could I sue? Who was held criminally liable? The vaccine makers are protected from law suits and cannot be sued, but you want to sue and hold people liable for protecting their children from these often fatal vaccines?

And please tell me, how many of these cases are in children who have already been vaccinated? Trust me, there are vaccinated kids who are now infected with the measles. Are you wanting to sue them, too? Hold them criminally liable?

I would hope you and all others on here would please do your homework and stop believing all you read in the news, especially since you have not read thisarticle with a critical eye. There is an organization called Natiponal Vaccine Information Center (http://www.nvic.org/) that will tell you what is in all vaccines, what vaccines cause what problems (they post the inserts from the pharmaceutical companies), and help people with injured or dead children to receive compensation for these injuries/deaths.

Vaccines are not always the safe and effective means you think they are. Just ask those of us who have had a child injured, maimed, or a child who died from vaccinations.

Why don't we just change the name of our country to the Communist States of America, while we are at it. Maybe you want the government running your life, but I don't. They are to much into our business as it is. Everyone doesn't react well to vaccines and they should not be punished if they don't get them.

"The vaccine makers are protected from law suits and cannot be sued, but you want to sue and hold people liable for protecting their children from these often fatal vaccines?" No they arent. Any manufacturer can be sued if you can PROVE that it was the product that caused the harm.

I know a person who has presented that same argument about "I don't want the government to tell ME what to do" "If I don't want the shots, that's my business" and yet that same person went into a tirade when his neighbor refused to mow his [the neighbor's] yard because it affected his property. Just sayin....it can't work both ways!

I would agree to that ONLY if the gov't would mandate that the vaccine were guaranteed to not contain any preservatives such as mercury derivatives.

The MMR has never contained thimerosal so there's your guarantee.

Oh the age old anti Vaccine debate from the lesser mined fools who bring you Creationism, and the moon is a space ship, and the earth is Flat. Oh and their biggest fear mongering the NWO is in charge of everything.

Vaccines are as safe as most other forms of medication, there will be some possible side effects, but the net worth of them is better than not having them.

The National Vaccine Information Center is a web site (www.nvic.org) that purports to be a non-profit (though not tax-deductible) educational resource to spread the "truth" about vaccines. The name of the web site is a sleazy attempt to confuse itself with the NVICP which is a legitimate government program office within the federal court system. The NVIC people were previously the prime movers (and A.Wakefield's employer) who more recently lost the MVICP case for autism being caused by childhood vaccinations. More recently they lost a 6-2 SCOTUS decision that contended that they should be able to sue drug companies if they wanted.

What it is is a lawyer-funded group that has been seeking to overturn the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) and gain the right to sue drug manufacturers individually. They want to do this because a lawyer is not necessary to file a claim with the NVICP and their standards are so low that scientific testimony and legal representation are not necessary and can be called by the Special Master (judge with medical training) at the court's expense. Lawyers for the claimants can only get up to $6500 and then only by following a strict fee schedule. If lawyers could sue drug companies individually, they could make billions off bogus vaccination claims.

Here is the NVICP government web site. Go read for yourselves and see why lawyers hate it.

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/vaccine-programoffice-special-masters

If you look at the NVIC (the crooks not the government) people, you will find that a little research will show you that the same individuals have similar organizations to promote the "truth" about global warming, several al-Quaeda conspiracy theories, and are also heavily involved with the Tea Party. Just a bunch of lawyers looking to make a dime off the ill-informed and ignorant.

@Texas

Don't you think that goes a little too far? Sure, vaccines are for the good of everyone but these parents are doing what all loving parents do: watching out for their childrens' best interests. People have valid concerns and they have the right to have concerns. Do you really want to let the gov't dictate one more thing we "have" to do...when does it stop? How long before the gov't dictates everything?

Why is the "prochoice" crowd so anti-choice? Get a life, you take more risk when you get into your car.

you like diseases and giving away medi-care? you pay for it with your fair share. u.s. citizens should get first rights to the system since they pay into it.

if they want to come in - great! there is a process. when we travel to italy and and mexico, gues what??!! we have to fill out paper work so they know who is their country - you think maybe others (not from usa) should do the same??

johnson. Of course mike wants the illegals to keep coming, so they can fill in all the potholes he made.

That is just not true. One of the biggest outbreaks this decade began with an unvaccinated American child who traveled to Switzerland with his family and brought measles back here.

That happened in San Diego. US citizen went on vacay to another country, picked up measles, flew back to San Diego, became symptomatic, went to the peds office and exposed children too young to be vaccinated. Infected kids at the school with measles. NICE. So very considerate of the family.

Was the doctor going to go to their house? How many doctors today make housecalls? And was this child too young to be vaccinated? You left a lot out of your story.......... Obviously no one died from the measles and now they have natural immunity for life and will pass those antibodies on to their children so that if their children are exposed they won't get them as bad. Not a bad thing.

Google it Lori. I'm done doing all the research for you. You have no idea what you are talking about.

and will pass those antibodies on to their children so that if their children are exposed they won't get them as bad.

What the heck have you been smoking? If that was true wouldn't measles have become a non-issue, oh I don't know, a few hundred years ago?

Maybe you should go tell that to the people in third world countries who don't have access to vaccinations. Tell them how lucky they are to have "natural immunity", particularly to the parents with dead children. They'll be thrilled to hear it.

LoriSm-430473, you clearly have issues with vaccinations. Although in all likelihood, your child's blood order was not contracted through a vaccination. Rather, through heredity.

Your arguement that people build up an immunity to these diseases is ridiculous. Do you have any idea how many people have died in the past two hundred years from these diseases? If they were as harmless as you seem to think, there wouldn't be any need to vaccinate kids.

I myself am half deaf from an infection I got in my ear due to having the mumps as a child.

My best friend became so ill from getting chicken pox she had to take a temporary leave of 5 weeks from work. She got it from her 8 year old niece because the child's mother didn't tell her the child was sick since she automatically assumed that everybody had chicken pox. Some of these diseases can kill. Do you really not understand that?

Never mind, nothing will ever convince people like you.

A mom immune through vaccination passes on antibodies to her child, too.

There are many diseases that are rather mild in childhood but are serious when an adult gets them. Which would seem to indicate it's better to get them as kids, wouldn't it? What's better, a naturally acquired immunity or an artificially acquired immunity? We assume the body can't tell the difference, but what if we're wrong? With the current epidemic of severe allergies, asthma, and other problems, it's obvious that SOMETHING is affecting the modern human immune system. We just don't know what it is. I don't think we can rule out the vaccination schedule because we certainly didn't evolve being vaccinated.

Until the mid-1970s, doctors used to ORDER their pregnant patients to drink alcohol "so they could get some sleep". We used to think asbestos was safe, too. Many dangerous things were once considered not merely harmless, but actually beneficial.

No, we don't "assume". If you have your measles antibody titers checked, they are checking for the same antibodies, whether acquired by vaccine or by prior infection. Same antibodies to same antigen, not one antibody for live virus and another for antigens contained in vaccines.

Yes, for some of these diseases, it is better to be infected as a child than as an adult. But, unless there is a valid medical reason to avoid vaccination, avoiding the disease altogether is better yet. Even among diseases that are generally mild in childhood, the incidence of severe complications is higher than the incidence of vaccine complications.

I'm not sure that's necessarily true, given the biases that currently exist in the medical profession along with the almost blanket immunity that Big Pharma enjoys. Many complications that could have been caused by vaccines are being dismissed as coincidence. A lot of us have witnessed the extreme reaction that our babies had to each shot, including high fever. When we called the doctor, we were told it's nothing to worry about it. Maybe it is--a high fever and other side effects every few months throughout the first few years of life? When we used to get measles, etc., most of us were much older, and probably a lot better equipped to handle it.

A high fever is not necessarily an extreme reaction. In fact, fevers are rarely harmful, and should only be treated if they cause a child to be uncomfortable. A fever is part of the normal immune reaction, and is to be expected when a vaccine is administered. After all, this is done IN ORDER to induce an immune reaction.

I was going to say the same thing, a fever is a normal reaction to a vaccine and shouldn't be a concern unless it goes over 101 degrees, Tylenol can reduce the fever as well. Remember, a fever is NOT the same thing as the flu.

I personally would pick a fever over measles any day of the week.

Way too many of us had measles and lived to tell the tale. You just don't get it; this was a virtually universal malady as recently as 40 years ago. (God forbid a mom might have to, gasp, stay home with her sick kid for a few days; isn't that the real dirty little secret?) The point is that you got measles ONCE, whereas kids are getting the vaccine complications over and over again, every few months, and most pediatricians don't even recognize the potential problem. Not even when they are severe.

Oom,

We do get it. The statistics don't bear you out, though. Out of every 1000 cases of measles, 1 or 2 people have complications leading to death. So no, not everyone makes it through. I'd rather my child have a high fever and is cranky for a day than have a complication from measles.

The flu is a relatively mild disease for most people, too. But every year, there are thousands of deaths from flu in the US alone. How many complications from the flu vaccine?

Out of every 1000 cases of measles, 1 or 2 people have complications leading to death.

And how many years does that take?

And before vaccination what was this number. Why the difference?

The flu is a relatively mild disease for most people, too. But every year, there are thousands of deaths from flu in the US alone.

Almost every one of them with few exceptions are in already sick people. Over 90% are in people over 65 with the vast majority of those over 75. And...I'm including pneumonia in those stats. Pneumonia is generally not prevented by the flu vaccine because there is multiple causes of pneumonia.

Out of every 1000 cases of measles, 1 or 2 people have complications leading to death. So no, not everyone makes it through

If it were anything else with a 0.1% complication rate, you would call it safe. How many people would have to drown before you would ban swimming?

Sorry, Lifestooshort, but you can not blame every unvaccinated child for spreading measles or any childhood illness. I had all the illnesses and so did most kids when I grew up, even after having the vaccines. Most vaccines are not to prevent you from getting the illness, but to lessen the severity of it. And just because you feel vaccines are a necessary evil, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you.

I do not blame the children, I blame their parents and the aforementioned people needlessly scaring parents into making such bad decisions. And vaccinations both prevent and lessen the severity of diseases, like you said. Just because YOU were lucky and made it through them unscathed doesn't mean everyone will. Many people DIE and have died from them, as well as suffering permament brain damage, sterility, deafness, paralysis, etc.... And as far as ME personally feeling vaccines are a necessary evil, it's not my personal opinion, it's the researched and educated opinion of the entire scientific community. It's a shame that's not enough for people like you.

Lifetooshort~ Many children cannot be vaccinated because they are allergic to the ingredients in the vaccines. Soem children have had such dire effects from vaccines that they have been brain injured or have died. Many others have had convulsions, seizures, fevers of 105 degrees, and other complications which prevent them from receiving more vaccinations, even if their parents had wanted them. Please do your homework and don't post such ignorant statements! My daughter contracted a blood disorder from a vaccine and it is a known fact that two vaccines (MMR and Pertussis) cause this blood disorder. Her blood disorder came about within weeks or her vaccination. Please don't think some of us have not paid a heavy price for you to feel 'safe'. We thought what we were giving our child was 'safe' and it ended up putting her life in danger.

I understand what you are saying. All my kids and grand-kids have had their vaccines. I am not one of those anti-vaccine people. But, no matter what we do or don't do, every child born is not gonna live to a ripe old each. One of the curses of man-kind is disease and illness, that can rob you of a normal life or take your life away. Scientist will never rid this world of disease, no matter how hard they try.

Again, I understand that a small number of children suffer serious consequences from vaccines, and I do wish the medical community could implement some sort of testing to be done before some vaccines are given to protect those children. But to stop vaccinating the masses who will benefit due to the tiny fraction who may be harmed is irresponsible and reckless. I know some children cannot be vaccinated due to illness or allergies, but again, that is a very small number. Any child who can be vaccinated should be, and if the parents choose not to vaccinate, their children should not be in public schools. I have two young children and truly feel for you and wish your child did not have to suffer. But the benefit is still well worth the risk, whether you can accept that or not.

lacywild - What you say is true, but we can improve the odds. The infant mortality rate has gone down dramatically with improvements in medical care and education of the masses. I doubt scientists and doctors think we can eliminate diseases altogether. But we can prevent many of them through vaccines.

Read my user name. I've seen what polio can do first-hand, and I've listened to my aunt's stories (corroborated by my father, other aunt, and grandparents) about the effects it had on whole communities (towns, cities, etc.). I don't ever want to see another child afflicted with this horror. I doubt you would, either. And it's making a comeback due to misinformation. It never was eradicated in this country because the Amish and Mennonites (and a few other religious groups, I think) refuse to vaccinate for real religious reasons.

Please, people. Don't condemn your children to that kind of life. IF they survive it, it WILL leave him/her crippled. The only question is how badly.

Scientist will never rid this world of disease, no matter how hard they try.

No, not 100%, but they can certainly get close. Smallpox ring a bell? There is a reason vaccines are no longer required in the US (and many other developed nations) ... we eradicated it.

Lori and any others...

Yes mom passes antibodies onto baby via placental transfer in the 8th-9th month of pregnancy.

Those antibodies, whether induced by vaccination or by natural infection, eventually go away after about 1 year.

And it's making a comeback due to misinformation. It never was eradicated in this country because the Amish and Mennonites (and a few other religious groups, I think) refuse to vaccinate for real religious reasons.

There has not been a single case wild polio since 1999. This hemisphere has been dubbed certified free of indigenous polio since 1994. There have been no cases of Vaccine induced Paralytic Polio since 2000 following an all IPV vaccine schedule. Previously the number of vaccine caused paralytic polio outnumbered the wild polio.

OPV was a horrible vaccine.

Theer is absolutely no proof that all of these current measles cases are in the unvaccinated, and for all of you to believe so is plain ignorance.

Actually let me quote from the article

Of the 89 cases reported through the end of last week, 79 were people who were unvaccinated or who had no documentation of it, Wallace said.

79 of the 89 cases were people who were NOT VACCINATED. So no not all but 89% of them were unvaccinated.

thrombocytopenia induced by vaccine has an incident rate of 1 in 30,000. You arent even getting a separate vaccination for measles if you object to the MMR. 1 to 2 of every 1000 who get measles DIES.

Keep your kids away from everyone else children. No one else should have to accept your risky choices.

Lori, yes, even the vaccinated cam contract these diseases. That is because not everyone bcomes fully immune from the vaccinations, which is one more reason why it it SO IMPORTANT to keep vaccine rates up and maintain HERD IMMUNITY! This is what protects those most vulnerable to disease; babies too young to be vaccinated, those who cannot be vaccinated, those who do receive total immunity from vaccines, and those who refuse to vaccinate. If herd immunity is lost, those people will be the first to suffer needlessly.

Lori,

We get it. You trusted "the system" and your child got hurt. You have every right to be angry. You do not, however, have the right to encourage people to do things that will endanger the health and life of potentially thousands of others.

Enough already.

So it's no big deal to you that these diseases have killed and maimed people, and continue to do so?? I bet it's a pretty big deal to the grief-stricken parents who have lost their babies to such diseases. Yes, it should be the parents' choice, but it should also be my choice as a parent not to expose my children to the unvaccinated ones. They should not be allowed to attend public school, at the very least.

Lifetooshort~What about the children killed BY vaccines????? Do you tink these parents ar enot grief-stricken? More children will recover from the measles than will die from them. How many have died so far from this measles outbreak? None. But they will all be immune for life now. That is a good thing. I agree 100% with lacywild. I, too, had measles when I was a kid and no adverse reactions. How many people have you known who died from measles? How many have you known who has had a child die or contract a disease/disorder from a vaccine? You know of at least one now because I have a daughter who contracted a blood disorder from a vaccine.

I was not insinuating that the death of children are no big deal. What kind of person do you take me for. No one in my life is as important to me as my children and grand-children. Sometimes vaccines can be worse than the illness. And like LoriSm said, you get the illness, after that you have the immunity.

Lori - I do actually know of children who have died from preventable diseases, as my mother in-law is a pedi. RN in Pennsylvania. I don't personally know anyone who died from these diseases, thanks to VACCINES all but wiping them out in this country!!

As far as the small number of children who suffered and died from vaccines, of course their parents grive, but at least they know they made the right decision based on the knowledge they had at their disposal, and unfortunately they were one of the unlucky few. How must the parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids and then lose them, or have them infect and kill other children feel? I could not live with that guilt.

And Lori and lacy, it's great that you both gained lifetime immunity from these diseases, but many people were not so lucky...

Of course it has to be something in the environment that causes my child to have problems. It couldn't possibly be caused by my perfect genes or my fabulous prenatal lifestyle. And anyway, the LORD doesn't believe in vaccinations or blood transfusions. It says so right in the Bible! LOL

Lori-

Asking "how many have you known that have died from ____— disease" is a moot point these days. Of course most people have not known anyone that has died from these diseases because most people are not old enough to have been around before these vaccines were common.

Actually, a high percent of the population are baby boomers and we didn't just know "about" these diseases, we had every single one of them and lived to tell about it. Grow up, all it meant was a few days off of school. What we DON'T have are all the autoimmune problems like allergies and asthma. Hmm.

Genenut~So those who sleep around, especially homosexuals who have a higher incidence of contracting AIDS, Hep-C, and other STD's, should they be banned from public places? What about drug users who also are prone to these diseases, should they also be banned? And how about adulterers who run around on their spouses and who can potentially contract an STD, including AIDS, we should ban them from public places, too, right?

Anyone who gets a vaccine is playing Russian Roulette with their life and their child's life. There are no guarantees in life and some children die from vaccines, some are permanently brain damaged, some contract potentially life endangering blood disorders, and some have such adverse allergic reactions that it is too unsafe for them to have vaccines, yet you want to ban these people from public life as though they are lepers.

Sometimes the vaccinated in large amounts get the very disease they were vaccinated against (as seen in the recent Whooping Cough cases in California), but none of you want to see the truth.

Having had a child injured by a vaccine (blood disorder), I know the risks and dangers that these vaccines can pose.

There sure has been a lot of Kool Aid drinking in the USA!

Lori, comparing diseases like measles amd pertussis to AIDS and Hepatitis is ludicrous. You cannot "catch" AIDS or Hep from simply being in the same room with someone who has it, but you certainly can catch measles that way!!! I think it is you who has been drinking the Kool-Aid...

Better yet, why don't we stick them in concentration camps. Would that make you feel better? We will throw all the people who don't buy energy efficient cars in there, too. What about the people with aids? They would definitely have to be put in concentration camps. So, this kid who has a medical reason for not getting vaccines can go to school, but not the one, because his parents didn't want the vaccines for their child. Sounds a little hypocritical to me.

Lacy, when your CHOICE could KILL OTHERS its not a CHOICE you have a RIGHT to make.

Those who choose to not vaccinate thier children for reasons other than proven medical reasons such as they are allergic to it, compromised immune system, etc have choosen to give up thier right to public access to services.

They have a choice, the child fighting cancer in the classroom DOESNT.

Those who choose to not vaccinate due to FEAR are selfish.

And Lori, Aids is spread by BLOOD contact, not airborne like chicken pox, measles, etc. They arent a danger to the public just by being there.

Lori, all of the illnesses you claim ARE NOT passed on by casual contact (not even AIDS). As long as they're not running around French-kissing everyone around them, they are no danger.

Measles IS highly contagious via airborne droplets.

Comparing the two is ludicrous.

Relative,

Actually, for most of these diseases, even if the carriers ARE running around French kissing everyone, they will not spread the diseases. Agreed, big difference from measles.

I had chicken pox, and I had measles. Why am I still here? These were never anything but minor childhood ailments and people should just grow up.

But I doubt you had polio or you wouldnt have "just grown up". You need to grow up yourself.

Nobody is saying don't get vaccinated for polio! Please cut it out. Some diseases are killers. Chicken pox isn't.

Actually Chickenpox IS a killer. Thats why they made a vaccine against it.

Of course you did, and that was the right decision. Your daughter is one of the few for whom the benefit is not worth the risk. THAT IS NOT THE CASE FOR THE VAST MAJORITY. please, please, stop with this nonsense. no one is drinking kool-aid but you.

Yes, please stop. Everyone here can understand how devastating that must have been for your family.

But to advocate that no children should be vaccinated because of a very small risk is insane when many more children would be harmed by the diseases that would come back.

Honestly, you're not helping anyone. I think it would make much more sense for you to advocate research as to why some people have adverse reactions to vaccines and some don't.

NOBODY is saying vaccines should be illegal. We are saying they should not be mandatory.

I'm sure you also think car seats for kids shouldn't be mandatory or seat belts in cars, speed limits, child pornography.

The government makes many things mandatory for the good of society. Get over it. Your rights only extend to the end of you nose, when they come into my personal space they cease to exist.

Actually, my parents always had seat belts, even before they were standard in cars. And we put them on or the car didn't move. Speed limits are obviously necessary, and child pornography hurts living breathing children. Not getting kids vaccinated is a basic civil right in many states whether you like it or not. It is an unnatural solution to a pseudo problem. I know no liberal can accept it, but the government isn't always right and this is the United States of America. A case of measles--the sky is falliing! That reminds me, I have to defrost a little chicken.

Vaccine profits are a drop in the bucket compared to medications. Please do your research before forming conspiracy theories. And look at the numbers. Vaccines invented and given here, diseases all but eradicated here. Accepting science does not make one a sheep.

Do you know where you vaccines come from? Do you know what is in your vaccines? Do you know the body actually benefits from disease in a way that a vaccine could never replicate? No, you don't. You know why, because you don't care. Science is whatever people obviously more clever then you call it. But its up to YOU to call them out on it. I will never believe something simply because someone tells me too, or gives my lopsided proof. And neither should you, especially when it comes down to children and our future generations.

Ps.. Most ALL medication and all the ingredients to make them and vaccines come from other countries… like Thailand, and Algeria and countries with little to no regulation. Do a little research on medication contamination and how the big pharmaceutical companies do their best to cover it up. I’m talking about antibiotics and medication people rely on dished out from pharmacies all over the country, including at hospitals. These are facts people.

Is that you, Jenny McCarthy?

You should be in jail, girl.

I'm pretty sure I said the idea of vaccines causing autism was nonsense, but I'm also pretty sure you a believer in the rather ‘be safe then sorry’ cult. Except the safe part has a pretty ugly side that no one wants to talk about. If you want to vaccinate your kids, fine. but you should have reasons to do so other then social pressure or half assed science, Also, aren’t your children worth you spending a little time to find out the answers yourself and not just do what you're told? I would think so.

I guess ignorance really is bliss...

Yeah, vaccines make so much money. That's why we have teams running around in third-world countries administering them for free to try to stop them from bringing those ailments here.

Yeah, the children I know are worth the vaccine protection from DEATH, PARALYSIS, DEAFNESS, BLINDNESS, etc, caused by illnesses that can be PREVENTED by vaccines. Getting polio does not simply give you immunity to it for life. That assumes that you survive it.

You obviously have not researched the vaccine industry very well. The companies that produce vaccines barely come out even at the end of the year. I'm not saying that they never make a profit, which they should, but I also am sure that your company (wherever you may be employed) makes some sort of profit, or you would not be earning a living! Vaccines are arguably the most regulated source on this planet - much more so than oral medications. If you have cared for children with complications of these devastating diseases, as I have (registered nurse), you would think more carefully of your reasonings for bashing vaccines. Please open your eyes to the real truth!

I have one of those kids that have had developmental issues. We have had a great deal of problems because of this for eighteen years. It's every parents choice to vaccinate or not. Parents with a developmentally delayed child doesn't have that choice. Why don't we spend some of that research trying to figure out what the cause for this problem is, that has and is affecting thousands and thousands of our kids, today.

I agree with you on the first part.

Not one of your kids has had an earache or the flu or chicken pox or measles? I'm calling BS.

And your point about vaccinated kids being immune is generally a rule of thumb... except when dealing with infants too young to be vaccinated. You and your lovely little misinformed family are putting infants too young to be vaccinated at huge risks every time you go out in public. If your clan causes an outbreak, I hope you get your ass sued off.

lol. You're funny.

Sorry, child-abuse ranks way the h#ll above not vaccinating. Anyone who thinks it's the same needs a reality check.

Looks like I just found 2 people who either don't have children or abuse the ones they have. Thanks for climbing out from under that rock.

I missed three weeks of kindergarten--and of life--with measles, the kind that used to be called the "hard" measles. I remember lying in a dark room, couldn't even have a light from under the door, it hurt too much, and there was this sicky-sweet smell, like decay--what a shock to realize that it was me that smelled like that. My mom did not work at that time, but that wasn't enough, there was an entire team of relatives watching me 24/7 for three weeks; they took shifts. Anybody want to put their five-year-old through that? Do you all have the resources and household help to put your lives on hold for three full weeks--or longer? I don't know what lingering effects this disease has had on me, either, but I don't believe I "just got over it".

Dennis M-2456089, if everyone in this country decided to not immunize their children there would be far more deaths from those diseases so your arguement is retarded.

My aunt was one of the kids who was infected in the massive polio outbreak in the early 50s. She was put into an isolation chamber in an iron lung, and her parents were told to go away and not come back until they were called. A month later, they were called to say that they could come visit her. They has already assumed that she had died like all the other children they knew.

She was one of only four kids in her entire class to survive. She and the other three survivors were all crippled for life, to varying degrees (and I'm not talking about a limp).

Do you want your child to go through that?

wah, wah, wah. it wasn't like that for most of us. Do you think it's good that now so many kids are allergic to things like peanuts, something that never used to happen?

Nice attitude, Oom.

Actually, i think the epidemic of allergies is an utter tragedy. Kids can no longer have pets, for instance. I think a case of measles that lasts a week is pretty trivial compared to an entire life with no cat or dog.

My son has had all his immunizations, and has no allergies other than pollen. I believe the increase in allergies is due to the fact that parents have been told to avoid foods like peanuts to prevent allergies and use air conditioning to prevent asthma. Early childhood is when the immune system learns friend from foe. If it can't encounter and recognize allergens as harmless, it overreacts to them. Recent studies have borne this out, with children whose parents avoided peanuts having MORE, not FEWER allergies as a result of this avoidance, as previously thought.

Not to mention the rising levels of world wide air pollution.

Early childhood is when the immune system learns friend from foe

Yeah, how 'bout that? And maybe the early childhood diseases accomplished just that. I have a biology degree, (1983) and immunology was my hardest subject, far worse than organic chemistry or calculus. It is even more complicated now, and there is still so much we DON'T know. We are messing with a very complex bodily system, millions of years of evolution.

So do I (1996). I made an A in immunology, and I made an A again when I had to take it in dental school. Let me get this straight. You want to isolate children during the formative periods of their immune systems (stay at home parent mandatory), but you want them to get childhood diseases to - strengthen their immune systems? Which is it?

Indeed. Only illegal immigrants carry disease, right?? I mean hell no one could carry the virus on their clothes or skin from another part of the country or the globe.

Pure Blood Americans (the master race I assume) are immune from everything.

PS this is pure sarcasm. you have an extreme amount of prejudice in your beliefs.

@ big boy - Yeah, because I see a lot of French illegals running around. Did you read the article?

How did this turn into a debate on illegal immigration?

mom2jandk, are you really stupid enough to assume that there are no French citizens living in the US illegally? My coworker is living with one.

Yeah, because I see a lot of French illegals running around.

Actually, there ARE French illegals running around, just as there are illegals from all countries.