Cindy I agree but I must say, If I had a child such as this I would love that child unconditionally. I would give my child the absolute best life possible.

It's not the child's fault that it was born this way. Yes it would be difficult to raise a child like this but ALL children need love.

Expect to see more cases of severe mutations such as this in the China.

Their pollution problems are paramount to say the least. Since they have essentially no EPA-equivalent type organization in their country, they are using many chemicals that have been banned in most parts of the world and simply aren't regulated whatsoever. Many of which are mutagens.

I cannot even imagine the amount of sacrifice and strength it would take to raise 2 little girls in this condition. The financial burden will add to the already huge emotional strain of watching them go through their struggles and all the medical procedures it's almost certain they will need. I truly hope that the parents will find the support and strength they will need to take care of them and that they will be as healthy and as happy as possible under the circumstances.

With China's attitude towards female children these two don't stand a chance. The odds of them surviving are slim to begin with. I only hope they don't suffer and have a moment or two to feel loved and smile.

So, D-man, this only happens in China? How do you explain Abby and Brit?

TonyInDallas - D-man didn't say it only happens in China. Either you don't read/comprehend well or you're trying to put a spin on on it. Wise up.

OK, I'll rephrase. This will happen in every country of the world with about equal frequency. Most of these children will die in infancy or in utero. A few will survive into late childhood or adulthood. But it happens everywhere and will happen everywhere.

So, D-man, this only happens in China? How do you explain Abby and Brit?

Way to go Brit & Abby! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSy9W3gIhnQ

The longest living conjoined twins have lived into their sixties! While not the longest human life possible, it's enough time to live a happy life if it's all you have.

Here are two of the oldest living conjoined twins alive today: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/article2302127.ece

I think these Chinese girls have a good chance at a happy life as long as they're given proper support & manage to make it through any initial & long term medical difficulties, which only becomes easier & easier as our medical knowledge & technology advances exponentially over time --- & I am sure even in China there are enough altruistic folk to provide a loving & supportive environment for them.

OK, I'll rephrase. This will happen in every country of the world with about equal frequency.

Uhhh, what about my point did you miss? And what are you basing this on? As a toxicology minor, I'd like to know your logic behind it.

Facts about conjoined twins

• Conjoined twins occur once every 200,000 live births.
• Forty percent to 60 percent of conjoined twins arrive stillborn, and about 35 percent survive only one day.
• The overall survival rate of conjoined twins is between 5 percent and 25 percent.
• Approximately 70 percent of all conjoined twins are girls. Although more male twins conjoin in the womb than female twins, females are three times as likely to be born alive.
• Conjoined twins are genetically identical and are, therefore, always the same sex. They develop from the same fertilized egg.
• One of the earliest documented cases of conjoined twins were Mary and Eliza Chulkhurst. They were born in Biddenden , Kent , England , in the year 1100, and were joined at the hip.
• Another set of famous conjoined twins was Eng and Chang Bunker, who were born in Thailand (then called Siam ) in 1811. The term Siamese twins was coined as a reference to Eng and Chang, who achieved international fame shortly after leaving Siam as teenagers. They were exhibited in circus shows around the world before settling in the United States , where they married two sisters and had nearly two dozen children. They were 63 years old when they died.
• The term “Siamese twins” is no longer considered appropriate.
• Conjoined twins aren't limited to any racial or ethnic group and have been born all over the world.

— Source: University of Maryland Medicine

Note: born all over the world.

Another statistic, to put with the one above that all conjoined twins are genetically identical twins.

So, identical twins happen randomly at the same rate regardless of race, etc and all conjoined have to be identical.

I believe the point D.Man is making is that, due to environmental factors in China (lax drug regulations in particular), the probability for conjoined twins in that country may be higher than in others. Only time will tell if his prediction proves true, but after reading on the subject, what I find suggests that such a connection (no pun intended) is unlikely. While certain drugs do cause an increased risk of birth defects, conjoined twinning does not appear to be among them.

OK, I did find that they are slightly more likely to occur in India and Africa than in China or the U.S., but I don't think it's a statistically significant amount.

I will look further.

I have watched a couple of programs that followed those girls around, doing various activities. They are conjoined twins, period and will always be conjoined twins, now going into young adulthood. And yes, it is possible for them to live a good life, but with many modifications that other people would find burdensome. In watching the program, I found them to be delightful and full of life like any other teenagers.

With these new conjoined twins being born in China, whole different culture and a whole different way of viewing such an anomaly, their future is going to be very uncertain.

I'm sorry J, But, I am believer in God, and, these babies are the same as anyone else. You do not let a down syndrome baby die because they will not lead a normal life. You cannot let someone die because they wont be "normal". "Normal" is in the eye of the beholder. IT would take a strong person to take care of them, but never death.

I have also seen the TV report on the US girls. I know it feels strange when you first see them but the parents ,teachers, and Doctors have done such a wonderful job them , they seem to be happy , well adjusted,outgoing and healthy. They deal with problems as they arise. They also have a good social life.

Is there a way that we can get these two families together?

Me-824303, There is no need for name calling, we don't all have a "Mother Theresa" syndrome, everyone is entitled to their opinion as are you.

I too personally would not want any extraordinary steps taken to keep children born like this alive anymore that I would take extraordinary steps for a baby born with downs syndrome or any other issue that will result in them not have some quality of life.

My father died when I was an infant and my mother when I was 2 (she was 36), I was raised by my 65 year old grandmother. I could not live with myself if I went to extraordinary lengths to keep a child alive then was unable to take care of that child who then left to either live in home (and be possibly abused) or with strangers. I don't think that it would be fair to ask anyone to else to step in and take over.

So, to each his/her own, I would choose to let that child/childen die naturally, I would not do anything or what anything done to hasten their demise or prolong it. I will just let God take over and I don't think that is cruel.

Me, attacking other posters is against the code of conduct. It would take a very strong person to raise them. I also believe in survival of the fittest. May nature take its course.

The posters explaining how they would "not like any extraordinary care" put into the protection of children born like this are quite puzzling to me?

What exactly are you saying? ALL infants require an extraordinary amount of care whether they are born completely "normal" .... or with deformity.

Is it not part of the human condition to instantly want to provide care for a fellow creature? If not ... why? Some may not be up to the challenge, but, then you shouldn't be having children. Sorry, but that's the plain truth.

Child birth is a natural process. And, as such, all sorts of things can happen. I know we all like to think we are special "products of god". But, it would be truly great if we could all grow up and past this childish notion. Birthing a child is a beautiful thing. If you're not up to the potential challenges that come with it, then please, do the rest of us a favor and remain a spectator within the concept of parenthood.

We are primates, we are animals, and we share a common bound with all the life of this earth. I should think it's about time we started acting like it.

Maybe having two heads is adaptable. How can we know at this early a point of divergence?

Any baby would die if they weren't taken care of. I am shocked by some of these posts. True, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have a son that is healthy but I know that if I had a son that was born with Downs, I would never just "let nature take its course" or anything. I'm guessing some of those people either don't have kids or didn't much thought into their posts. I worked with a woman who raised a daughter by herself with Downs, and I think she did a terrific job and her daughter is doing good. She even had to go through her daughter having leukemia (pretty sure I spelled it wrong), remember again...as a single parent.

Me- saving them is in fact the new attitude. It's only in recent time that technology has allowed many like this to have any chance of survival. That's man working not Gods natural plan. When I was a kid many Dr.s took the stand that those with obvious mental problems be allowed to expire, and encouraged the parents to allow so. That was the case with two autistic cousins. They didn't and both lived into the lower 40s. Yes, they were here and we, as kids, had a great time. As they aged many related problems arose and they had to be institutionalized for there own and others safety. This took a terrible toll on my Aunt and Uncle. Why did you look at this? For the same reason it was placed in the news to start with. It's entertaining, right? That's the way these kids will be looked at there whole life. 99% will see no use for them but to stare and say to themselves how lucky they didn't turn out that way. Can you find any record made of the people like this, in the distant past, other than recorded as being part of a circus Freak Show? I fully support what ever the parents decide for them. It will call for, in either way, a tremendous challenge to live with.

We are primates, we are animals, and we share a common bound with all the life of this earth. I should think it's about time we started acting like it.

Animals often commit infanticide or leave sick and unhealthy young out to die. Just sayin'. You have no idea what the true course of nature might be, which is why it is always best to let it take its own course and don't presume to think you know better.

People, the conjoined twins that we have seen on the tv are a bit different. This set in China probably will not survive! Think of a two headed calf or other animal. They just don't make it. I don't want these girls to pass away! It's just the laws of survival.

I'm sure Abby and Brittany Hensel are glad their parents didn't feel the same way. They just recently celebrated their 21st birthdays together. You can see a pic of them at 18 here. It's obvious they're very happy with their lives.

Just because it would be a burden for a person and their family to live like this doesn't mean they should just die. By that logic, anyone who was born with a defect or handicap should die at birth. A life with special challenges is no less important than one without handicap.

The Hensel twins were born in the USA. China doesn't want people to have more than one child so if you think they will do anything to save these girls you are wrong! I also think the Hensel girls shared less than these Chinese babies do. Just look at the baby photos of the Hensel twins and note the large, broad, area above the waist. The Chinese babies look to be like a single birth baby on that area.

PrecededByNone

What an obtuse thing to say.

I hope you never go to the doctor, take medication, or exercise for the mere sake of betterment for that matter.

Seriously. What aspect of modern civilization could you possibly point to that doesn't interfere with a natural plan?

don't presume to think you know better.

In the 21st century, after countless lives lost and countless advancements within science, medicine and technology ... can you honestly make such a statement?

I should think the more relevant question is "who are we not to know better?"

anyone who was born with a defect or handicap should die at birth

I'm not saying anyone with a handicap, just extremely severe cases like this where there is no chance for any kind of quality of life. They're twins, they're girls, born to poverty-stricken parents in China. The parents can't afford the extreme measures to be taken, no one else will want them, and they will be ridiculed or worse, subjected to the pity and freakish internet spying of people like us. Sounds cruel? Maybe. But life wasn't supposed to be easy, or fair.

The two little conjoined girls here in the US are doing well and have many more advantages to help them adjust and survive, including lots of love and acceptance.

I read somewhere that in China people often openly ridicule people who live with congenital differences. The article was written by an American visitor to a remote Chinese village who wrote about observing a man with dwarfism walking through a public area. Throngs of people swarmed around the dwarf, pointing and laughing while he stoically tried to push his way through. The American's local guide indicated this was normal behavior towards people who were different and that the man was probably accustomed to people's reaction.

I doubt there will be many extraordinary efforts made to keep these little girls alive.

Preceded

But life wasn't supposed to be easy, or fair.

I should think you've made the case for these twins with your own words. Who are we to say they don't have the right for even the smallest chance?

Of course things will be tough. But, all the aspects you've mentioned are more a reflection on the %&@#$ society we have created, and have no barring on this individuals right to at least have a chance at life.

To the folks saying "normal" babies require extraordinary care just to stay alive, I think you're not understanding what extraordinary really means. It takes a lot to care for a baby, both in time and money, but that's the accepted normal (or oridinary) for raising a child and is therefore not extraordinary. Sorry, but I had to point that out...

Love

I doubt anyone would dispute that. I think many of us were making our comments within the assumption that that assertion would come with common sense.

The point many are making, is when you as an individual can/should make the call that: The care required outweighs the benefit of said child's existence and right to life.

I'll perfectly admit that I'm working under certain pretenses of naiveté. But, I'm wiling to consced this point, just not my position.

Maybe the Hansel girls can adopt her?

Nick, this is not Down's syndrome. This is a severe congenital disability. Most children like this are miscarried--it happens every day. It's called a spontaneous abortion, and it is nature's way of correcting severe genetic problems.

It's only in the last 20 or 30 years that doctors have even tried to save these children. The technology didn't exist, but even now technology will only go so far. It might save their lives, yes, but doesn't quality of life count for something?

Kristin

Quality of life means a great deal.

But, within your own admission, technology is constantly changing. Wouldn't our very definition of "quality" be extremely different today then it will be in 15 years?

The quality of life these children could possibly have in the near future would theoretically surpass that of the children from the Paleolithic. Does that diminish our human story of struggle and survival? This is obviously more of a rhetorical. But, I think one that has social consequences on how we view life today and in the future.

"Standards" cannot always be so clearly defined .... or administered

chad-1841583, oh chad-1841583

How perfectly naive of you to extend my comments to all defects and illnesses. Of course, had you read what I wrote, you would see that I was talking about extreme cases with no hope of quality of life, such as this case in China. I have a feeling you're just out for blood though (ironic, given your "every soul is precious" gushing), and the content of what I say is of little meaning to you.

It is nothing but an utter waste of emotions and resources to try and hope that these girls would live a full life. Sad and regretful, but clearly you know nothing of the culture in China that these girls will be subjected to. Death is not the cruelest fate.

Preceded

I've read every word of multiple posts you've made ... and I stand by every word I've reposed.

It's odd you react so sheepishly towards someone who puts forth a more lightened, optimistic view of things than you. It's also funny that you highlight the term "naive", as it shows you don't actually read my posts. Afterall, I clearly admit freely that aspect of my argument in post #2.19

I'm sorry you took my responses so personally. I assure you I meant no offense and I'm not "out for blood." I just have strong views ... same as you.

As far as your "every soul being precious" critique. Well, this is puzzling as well. As an atheist, I don't believe in the physical manifestation of a soul.

But, yes. I would say that life is special and precious. No amount of your cultural revelations regarding the harshness of living in China will diminish that.

What you call "lightened and optimistic", Chad, is actually ignorance. There's nothing light and optimistic about life in rural China, especially for these poor girls.

It's amusing to me that you take so much pride in your naivete and "optimism".

I would hope for more rationality coming from a fellow atheist... "every life is special and precious"? Really? That's so nice to think, but take a look at the world around you. That is clearly not the case.

I honestly wish I could believe everything you say. It sounds so warm and fuzzy. But my education and experiences simply won't let me.

Preceded

I've grown tired of your preoccupation with a false toughness.

It's cynical people like you that #$%& on anything sincere with which you oppose. You take anything resembling kindness and raise your voice as to seem as though you're the strongest guy in the room. You mistake my sincerity for weakness, and in doing so, only regress to your own petty form of insults.

I've told you twice now that I've never meant offense to anything you've said. Yet, you continue with these childish quibbles. You know nothing about me, or where I've been. I speak broadly about global, social issues and you continuously spout your tourguide, talking points about china.

Don't mention my rationality with regards to atheism as it's blatantly obviously that your age deceives your "education and experience." All your arguments are good for are laughable non sequiturs and strawmans.

"every life is special and precious"? Really? That's so nice to think, but take a look at the world around you. That is clearly not the case.

What the hell do the social conditions with which certain cultures find themselves in have to do with the sanctity of life and the innate transcriptions within the human condition.

"preceded by none", If we were only so lucky.

1. I'm a female, and certainly have never claimed to be the toughest "guy" in the room, just a small voice of reason. I have not once taken offense to anything you've said, so stop assuming that I am. And while I don't know much about you, I know that by your arguments you think that letting these girls live is "special and precious", but what you're really doing is subjecting them to a life of ridicule and pain. Think about it, don't just make your vague idealistic arguments for the sake of humanity... consider the culture.

2. I have no idea why you're getting so upset and yet accusing me of "childish quibbles"... I've only offered fair responses to your arguments (remember that you came after my postings here, not the other way around). You have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to my rebuttal.

3. What the hell do the social conditions with which certain cultures find themselves in have to do with the sanctity of life.

Seriously? I don't even know where to begin with that one... except to repeat that what you assume to be "quality of life" in your own little realm would be a sentence of misery and torture to another.

I feel like I'm being the more compassionate one in this case, and I'm certainly not flinging insults or expletives like you are here. Just calm down for a minute before you launch into your tirades. You seem like you have the capacity to think things through, I just don't think you are. I think you're picking arguments with a lot of people on this feed just for the hell of it, and then you become incredulous when people actually stand up and defend their POV. Remember... my POV is just that... you don't have to take it to heart.

Although, in all fairness I should add that I probably had a right to take what you said personally, since you did launch into me with "what an obtuse thing to say". The quickest way to realize you're arguing with an irrational person is when they simply dismiss your arguments before considering them, and attack the person instead of the opinion. Which is all you've done so far... accusations and name calling.

Which is more merciful? A short life of pain, taunting, and misery? Or a slightly shorter life, and death with dignity? That is simply my point here. You don't like it? Fine. I see your point, I just don't think it applies in this particular situation and other similar, therefore I disagree, and your little heartfelt quotes followed by angry tirades is certainly not going to convince me otherwise.

Name one post where I've been anything but civil to a fellow commenter. That's 3 times now you have claimed I'm starting a fight. As I've said, I have strong beliefs as you do ... The difference is I've NEVER resorted to name calling and personal attacks. All my rebuttals, critique or otherwise, have come from outstretched arms of dialogue and civil discourse.

You've called me a hypocrite, and accused me of being a troll on multiple occasions. Long before my last post in which I told you I've had enough. Do I need to state the specific post-orders and numbers? Twice, I've tried to explain to you where I was coming from and bridge our discrepancies, and twice you shot me down with insults. When asked if you were done with insulting my person, you replied:

You're just looking to pick fights. Idealist? Hardly. Naive? Yes. Hypocrite? Certainly. Now I'm done. Thanks for the heartwarming quotes though, totally made my day.

That was even after I expressed my displeasure that we couldn't find a common ground.

In all your attempts to degrade and question my sincerity, you've merely shown an acute ability to dance around your own preconceived notions of "what" my opinion is and where you take the initiative to define it for me.

By the way, if your main course of arguments are to exist solely as strawmans, please take more care in not inserting your own words within said argument.

I've never said life is warm and fuzzy. And, I would still like to hear how ones culture has any bearing on the sanctity of that life. Is a man's life not worth as much in China as it is in the states. Regardless of what their culture says over ours, do you have more right (within western society) to displace the worth of those around you.

Culture, has nothing to do with the specific parameters of life! Society, no matter how perfect a utopia we feel we can construct, or how desolate we can fall from grace, has ANY bearing on whether or not we should find solidarity within our fellow human species. As a fellow atheist, if you can't see that, then I would just assume not continue this discussion. Your position falls much more within the Christian Taliban of "unequal's" and false equivalences.

I don't take offense when someone disagrees with me Preceded. I take offense when they put forth a shell of my argument, then attack that argument, then feel the need to degrade the social, altruistic principles that I've gained through my experience on this earth.

Preceded

Although, in all fairness I should add that I probably had a right to take what you said personally, since you did launch into me with "what an obtuse thing to say"

Not only is it painfully obvious that you need a strong reading comprehension course ... it seems you would do well with a vocabulary brushup as well.

ob·tuse / Adjective

"Difficult to understand."

If I would have began my reply:
Preceded, I find your argument "difficult to understand" ... would you still label me as "insulting" you?

Or, in reality, were my words much more of a way of referencing/setting up your position, then offering my own as a counter position for you to then explain in a followup?

certainly not going to convince me otherwise

I can't even trust you to comprehend/be honest with representing my position .... you think I could care less if I'm swaying you in any convincing direction?

Hahaha! Oh Chad. There's no hope for you. So much effort to prove that you're right and I'm wrong... I don't feel like you're worth the effort. Most of your arguments, which had a valid basis, have turned to personal attacks, cheesy cut/pasted quotes, and sarcastic dictionary cut/pastes. You digressed from the topic long ago. Ciao, kiddo.

"preceded by none", If we were only so lucky

I can tell you truly live by your words of "respect" for all life.

The quickest way to realize you're arguing with an irrational person is when they simply dismiss your arguments before considering them

The quickest way to realize you're arguing with someone who has continuously parodied and mutilated your own position is to call them out on it. List the ways they've in fact put forth blatant strawmen, and then show them specific examples of where they are immature and cynical.

Then, when they reply with a non-substantial, short rebuttal consisting of a lame attempt at humor, begin with "Hahaha", and end with the phrase "kiddo" .... it's usually pretty safe to say you've won the argument.

Sure, you "win". But the twins will probably still die. So... no one wins, really. But as long as you can sleep better at night thinking you've won something!

It's not about winning Preceded.

I stand by every one of my posts on this thread. You know, the posts where I have continuously stood up for these girls. Continuously stood up for the sanctity of life. Continuously stood up for my altruistic views on human solidarity. Continuously expressed my view that regardless of our social norms (regardless of the moral landscape we happened to find ourselves on), we must fight for one another and hope to see better days.

And you, continuously countered my position with false reports regarding my claims and personal attacks on my credibility and motives. Hey, you even managed to claim I'm an "internet freak who thrives to 'pity' others." But that's okay.

I will sleep fine with the record of my comments archived nice and neat.

With all your wisdom Preceded, you seem to mistake one's "naiveté and optimism" for pacifism and weakness. I can assure you ... you're wrong on both accords.

A martyr folks, we have a martyr here! All hail Chad and his tireless efforts in the trenches of evil!

Good for you, really, for preserving the "sanctity of life". I stand up for the sanctity of death, because I have seen a lot of suffering, and truly death can be a mercy.

Chad, I never once called you weak, or a freak, or a troll, as you have accused me of doing. You jumped down my throat from the very beginning, and when I stood up for my opinion, you said I was taking it "personally" and continued your own personal attack on my character, and diverted your argument from your stance on your so-called respect for life to simply proving you were right. All the while feigning outrage at my alleged "personal" attacks. Look back through your posts and see who was doing the name-calling and insulting.

You've proven that all you really care about is being right.

I should also add that you misquoted me here: "internet freak who thrives to 'pity' others."

This is what I actually said:

I myself, even living in the United States, would rather die with a little dignity than live as an online freak show and be subjected to the pity of people such as yourself.

That was in no way meant to refer to you as a freak. Just saying that there is dignity in death as there is in life, and I would not want your, or anyone else's pity. Please make sure that if you quote people you do it correctly. Anywhere else that could get you in a lot of trouble.

Again, It's not about being right and wrong. But, I'll be damned if I just sit idly by while you make a caricature of everything that I've said. And, that's exactly what you have been doing since I initiated a dialogue with you. Reread your original post about nature and reread my rebuttal to your position. All I said was that we intervene in nature ALL the time. Taking medicine, going to the doctor, etc.

Then, you somehow blanket my ENTIRE position with this "warm and fuzzy, all life is precious" black-and-white nonsense. None of which was my original point. I agree with you 100% about dying with dignity. As I've said TWICE now, we probably agree on a VAST number of things (more so then those we don't.) Unfortunately, your immaturity took what could have been a civil discourse and turned it into what it is.

In reference to me being a troll, or in anyway not sincere in my comments as well as the variety of personal attacks, you wrote:

I have a feeling you're just out for blood though (ironic, given your "every soul is precious" gushing), 2.23

What you call "lightened and optimistic", Chad, is actually ignorance. 2.25

I honestly wish I could believe everything you say. It sounds so warm and fuzzy. But my education and experiences simply won't let me. 2.25

You're just looking to pick fights. Idealist? Hardly. Naive? Yes. Hypocrite? Certainly. 5.23

Reread my post at 2.24. Then, read your reply at 2.25.

Again, at 5.22, I try to be civil and say:

Pity we couldn't find a common ground. I have a feeling we share much more in common then the stark contrast we've seemed to highlight over this discussion.

What do you reply? Again .... "I'm just looking to pick fights."

*By the way, a paraphrase (which is what I provided of your exact statement) is in no way a misquote.

Goodness ... are you two DONE now?

I can't let her go Beth ;)

Truth is, I really like PrecededByNone.

I agree with much of what she says, so it is a shame we've spent so long on a back and forth. I apologize for the thread graffiti.

I'm done with this issue. Be well.

The fact is, Chad, you do only care about being right. When I stand up for my opinion, its a "personal attack", and when you do, with EXACT same amount of vitriol and "insulting", it's a "rebuttal". That's what this has come down to, and it's a disgrace to this thread. Your comments aren't on topic anymore. You've found the need to prove yourself right so badly that you took the time to go back and pick apart, (and somehow still misinterpret and misquote--when you use "" it is quoting, by the way-- everything I said).

I've had enough of it, sir. I stand by my beliefs and my comments. You think the girls will have quality of life, I do not see that at all being possible given the culture they were born into. I think a short life with dignity and grace is better than being subjected to what those poor girls and their parents surely will. That's all I have to say on the subject, I'm truly sorry you find offense to this, but that's not my problem anymore.

I'll let you "win", leave you to your altruistic quotes, and get a good night's rest now. I hope you feel better about yourself. Meanwhile the pain and suffering of humanity continues around you, and I'll continue to champion my own beliefs without stooping any lower than I already have in this petty argument. Good night.

Good night

I feel like I've just scanned through a romance novel where Chad and Perceived really like each other but won't admit it. Pride and Prejudice or Much Ado About Nothing? (not to take away from the seriousness of the article, just mentioning ...)

LOL -- good one "in agreement".

Kristen, I know that the article was about a different cirumstance. Someone earlier mentioned Downs, so that is why I said something about it too. That's all.

Wow - I knew my comments would spur debate, but I didn't realize just how vitriolic some folks would get. Just to be clear, I believe in God, and I would never suggest that anyone do anything to hasten the death of this baby. I only suggested that to take extraordinary measures to save the child would be cruel.

I don't care what anyone says about Brit and Abby - if you've watched their documentary, you'll know that they are haunted by people staring at them wherever they go - and it happens wherever they go. Special accomodations have always been made for them. How many children do you know that want to feel like their "different" than everyone else? And what about the elephant in the room - the fact that they will never be able to enjoy intimacy with a man, if they so desire. To be intimate is to be alone, with one person besides yourself. That is impossible for these two girls.

So don't tell me that I'm a witch or selfish or any other hateful, negative comments that some of you made - I'm all for the happiness and comfort of children and human beings in general. No matter how happy Brit and Abby may appear on film, I guarantee you they've each had their private moments when they wish they had never been born - guarantee it!

I would take offense to that statement if i was the parents. Are they not allowed to love their children not matter what disability they have?

What tragedy?

Nature did take its course: The babies were born whole and healthy. The next natural course would be for them to be cared for by loving parents who can accept them for who they are.

I agree engnenk....best to let nature take its course on this one

Tragedy - Child born with a birth defect

Nature - Not trying to take heroic measures to separate these children.

Nature did take its course: The babies were born whole and healthy. The next natural course would be for them to be cared for by loving parents who can accept them for who they are.

The babies were probably born by C-section. Had nature simply taken its course, both mother and infants would most likely be dead.

Wow! Your ignorance leaves me speechless. Your hatred of something you no nothing about not so much.

Sarcasm noted.

But in response it is probably because god(s) had nothing to do with this... or any... birth.

1. He knows a cruel situation.

2. He knows the claim of religion.

3. He places a correlation between them.

His observation is valid. He also managed to flush a fanatic comment in the process of being logical.

Why would jesus do that to two innocent babies....? Isn't he supposed to be looking out for them, not playing cruel practical jokes?!

You obviously said that to annoy the christians here that can't see through your sarc.

this kind of thing does sort of neatly poke a hole in the whole 'intelligent design' argument. if we're 'designed' by some 'intelligent creator' clearly he's either an incompetent tinkerer or a cruel bastard.

Sorry, forgot my /sarc tag...my bad!

jkatze - Really? You have NO idea what experience I have with churches, which, or how many. The ignorance here is NOT mine, my friend. I KNOW plenty.

Simply pointing out the utter disaster of logic that is religion as Mark noted.

jkatze

You'd actually be quite surprised. It's often been my experience that my fellow atheists know much more about religion then theists do. Especially christians, as we like to study all faiths and discover their common decent and modifications.

But I digress.

As many have already suggested, it's odd you attack a perfectly logical question with such vitriol. While the comment was obviously smothered with sarcasm ... the logic behind such a question is quite valid and rational.

The "god works in mysterious ways" banality may have worked for generations upon generations my friend. But, some of us have grown past such blindness.

This is a good thing. One to be looked upon with equal respect.

Fred's statement shows no hint of hatred to me. Ignorance, maybe, but hatred, no. I see very often in these vines that if somebody disagrees with another person's view the first rebuttel is saying they have hatred or hate. Not necessarily true, just an opposite view. I don't think anybody hates these little girls at all. But I guarantee you when they grow up and walk down the street people are going to look at them. It will be interesting if one develops into a conservative and the other a liberal.

A Veteran

What "Ignorance" would you like to point out? Ignorance simply means "a lack of knowledge" on any given subject.

Do you have Jesus' perspective on two-headed children you could point to? I'm not really sure what foundational text either side could really point to in order to claim any such substance of ignorance.

What the secularists do have on their side is a simple grasp of science. Birth is a nature process ... and thus, natural consequences of that process occur. Pretty easy explanation for this really.

It's when you inject the perfect, omnipotent presence of a "creator" that you have difficulty understanding how our beautiful children are born into such dire, unwarranted predicaments.

I don't know what's more infuriating... when the religious type like to claim that they think they know what God's intentions are, or when they simply dismiss it to "his mysterious ways".

Fred's statement shows no hint of hatred to me. Ignorance, maybe,

Please, enlighten me, how is my comment ignorant? I'm all ears!

Alright now. Let's pose the question in a way to inspire intelligent polite discussion.

Why would an omniscient and omnipotent God allow this to happen?

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

-- Epicurius

Fred, it is only common to try and bring God down to mans level. We don't see things as God does. We are all wrapped up in the ''present" attitude. God's natural realm is eternity. Our part in that is no more than a grain of sand on a vast beach. He sees the entire picture of how, what we can not comprehend, turns out later for good or bad. Our lives are a constant surprise to us but never to him. That is what we believe in him call "Faith". Those who don't? That's OK too. He can handle it. Natural selection is how we got here today. Yes evolution. Why do we feel we need to mess with it? Perhaps because he has given man the intelligence to do so. Why waste the gift? I don't think he wants or expects us to.

Fred your comment "I'm all ears" shows a blessing in itself. As a totally deaf person for 28 years, I envy you. Please use them to hear once in a while and not let the gift go to waste. It's truly a precious one.

IF there is a God , He will spare them and their family and take them back to him .

Yes this is a tragedy ... people are cruel .. a lot crueler than what is let known. How the hell would any of you want to be attached to someone sharing one body for the rest of your life. You speak stupidly if you think this is a piece of cake living this life and rasing them. Espeically since the parents are poor farmers and have little to no money.

I repeat this ( from my previous post) , I've been a care giver to my brother with Downs for 21 years .. and it has been extremely hard. I have no friends ( they don't come around for fear I'll ask them for a little help) .. no family comes around either .. I'm a widow and I have 1 son who is not helpful either. Had I been able to , I would of told my mother to abort . My brother has an extreme case of Downs .. he is 59 ... I am 65 .. and it's been hell for both of us. Don't let anyone tell you different . It breaks my heart every day to see the condition my brother must live in and me being powerless over the situation .. this is NOT living .. it's called existing .. there is a HUGE difference. Just because I gave him love and showed much compassion and kept him clean, fed and comfortable doesn't make it a good thing. I should know, I've been living this nightmare with him for 21 years.

As for those of you , who would want to know why, I am taking care of my brother for all these years .. this answer is .. unconditional love and the quality of care in nursing homes in N W Indiana is awful .. (I just went through that with my husband 2 years ago when he broke his hip and had to be in a nursing home for 2 months .. they almost killed him ) These kinds of birth effect MANY not just the person born with the affliction. Unless you have a lot of help and money from day one your life goes down hill with that person also. I lost all my hair from stress, I have very bad and very painful vericose veins in my legs and I have no life outside my home. I have no help at all. The help in my state isn't worth the aggravation. I WILL continue to care for my brother as long as I'm able to .. but to say to you all that I am happy .. I am not .. He's suffered greatly and I have suffered at as well , trying my best to give him love and a resepectful quaility of life. Also, I took care of my husband ( who was much older than me) for 4 years with Alzheimers . He passed away in March . IF it were me carrying this child I would of aborted him. There are MANY reasons why I would of made this choice but since it was out of my control but since it didn't happen the love I had for my brother doesn't allow me to comfortably place him in one of these awful homes where I live. They are like hell holes. Look it up on the internet , these homes so called -> report cards.. the proof is there.

You people need to look on the dark side instead of the bright side because the truth is, there is not bright side .. especially not for this particular family or the twins.

Why don't you postive people start up a charity for these twins and their family . All I've seen you doing is just talking .. tomorrow you'll forget about all of this but that family will have a huge burden on them from now on.

I was born and raised a Catholic .. today , I am nothing .. I do NOT believe any more . The god I was raised to love and honor does not exist. He is only another character in "The Book" of fairy tales known as The Bible. The biggest hypocrites I've met in my life are those that say they are Christians .. all they do is talk .. but never act on what they say or believe in. IF their god has spoken to them .. then why are they so selfish in their actions and deeds. Why are they not being obedient to what God would want them to do .. Love and help people .. not just sit here and talk like fools about what should happen and be done about these twins.

This entire subject makes my stomach sick. I can see the cruelty throughtout this topic. Actions speak louder than words, HELP these people if you so damned concerned.
P.S I know this letter isn't written well.. but I'm not all that educated .. I was a poor student in school and only went up to my 2nd year of HS. I was a nervous child and I was always fearful .. I was bullied and picked on in school all my life .. and it was mostly because my brother was Downs .

Charley

That's an awful lot of "knowing" for someone who admits we can't know?

In one paragraph, you explain:

We don't see things as God does. Our part in that is no more than a grain of sand on a vast beach

But in the same breath, you go on to ascribe in great detail that:

Our lives are a constant surprise to us but never to him. He sees the entire picture of how, what we can not comprehend, turns out later for good or bad.

This is quite curious to me indeed. The supposed humility of the faithful will never cease to amaze even the most spiritual of atheists, such as myself.

I wonder when we will be able to embrace the philosophical aesthetics of the unknown ... all the while rejecting the certainties we feel we can place on contemptible, overrated notions such as "faith"?

Eastside

I think all of us can share empathy within your heartache.

It's clear that you've experienced many hardships in your life. But, I feel with your post, you've glossed over a bit of shared-context you couldn't possibly have. As, all who are posting on this thread are strangers to one another and we have no way of knowing others personal stories of anguish and how they personally reflect on the issue.

With that said, where you have witnessed dark days ... others may have seen a different perspective. With every story you cite of a "failed" existence within the parameters of a disabled lifestyle, others can share a story of triumph. One that beats the odds. One that ends on it's own terms ... and not on the ones who said otherwise.

To say to some that: "It's NOT living, but existing", some would say: "At least give me that chance."

I'll never understand how much we all take our very existence for granted. What petty lives we all live sometimes. But, we are the lucky ones. We are the ones who enjoyed the luck of being born at all. The sheer odds of that happening (against our favor) are staggering.

If anything. As apathetic and disenchanted as we may get sometimes. At least we could remember that.

Pollutants cause birth defects, our righteous technical advances cause defects. The human body is a lot more fragile than people admit, a gene bounced around here, a gene altered there and we're sunk. Chad - That exactly, Fred may not know much about genetic defects and what causes them. But he did not come across as "Hating" those little girls or anybody else on this vine. Or, maybe he is a physicist I don't know. The only thing I know in the bible is where baseball is first mentioned. Genesis 1:1, where it says "In the Big Inning..." Fred - See sentence 1 of Chads entry.

A Veteran

Okay.

I'm not sure what your "pollutant" mention is supposed to be referencing? Yes, genetic abnormalities are susceptible to external stimuli. But, that has what do with the infinite number of natural predispositions to birth defects?

chad-1841583

I suggest you read "The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down" and you'll realize the danger of projecting our perceived values on "quality of life" on another culture. This is rural China we're talking about here, not the United States.

I myself, even living in the United States, would rather die with a little dignity than live as an online freak show and be subjected to the pity of people such as yourself.

PrecededByNone

Cruelty is softened by fear, not pity.
-- Mason Cooley

Are you done with the insults yet?

I've long admitted to being an idealist. And, naiveté bears witness to much of what I write.

But, I can always find comfort in that I will never be as cynical as someone like yourself. Or, at least how you purport to be within this thread. Pity we couldn't find a common ground. I have a feeling we share much more in common then the stark contrast we've seemed to highlight over this discussion.

Insults? Take a look at what you have been posting, not just in response to my posts, but everyone else's on here. You're just looking to pick fights. Idealist? Hardly. Naive? Yes. Hypocrite? Certainly. Now I'm done. Thanks for the heartwarming quotes though, totally made my day.

Charley - Touche! You're right, such a simple comment can illustrate how things can be taken for granted. I have zero desire to waste such a 'gift,' but I also have zero desire to be thankful for such a gift to someone not deserving.

Fred, it is only common to try and bring God down to mans level. We don't see things as God does.

Of course it is, we have to do so to understand something properly. We have made incredible advances by doing so with computers, airplanes, spacecraft, medicine, etc etc....it seems to be a perfectly reasonable and appropriate approach, given the massive discoveries and improvements made over the previous centuries. And a legitimate question, how do you know how god sees anything? How do you know its different from ours? You are projecting your expectation of god onto god....you are not parsing truths here my friend.

To be honest, I share the sense of wonder you display in your comments, the world is a tiny speck in the vastness of the galaxy, which is a speck in the vastness of the universe, which at this moment, is a speck of the vastness of eternity. But such a vastness leaves a lot of room for questions. And those questions are never answered to my satisfaction by religion. There MAY BE a god, or multiple, I don't KNOW, but I can say with a significant level of confidence, that every religion I have looked closely at (which includes islam, judaism, xtianity) has immediate glaring logical errors. Indeed, your own comments contain descriptions well beyond what you can possibly KNOW, and ascribes them to god.

The quote from Epicurus makes the point nicely, if this god that I am told is SO dear to us, and we are SO dear to it, why would it allow such innocents to be so stricken? Who is to learn from that, and why must these children suffer so, merely for our education? That strikes me as a particularly cruel means of demonstration to 'non-believers.'

Veteran - See sentence 1 of Chads entry.

Which, the one where he admits he we cannot KNOW everything, or the one in which he laments the heartache that eastside has known, and the families of these girls will know? To be honest, NOBODY knows, but the religious regularly DO claim to know, but when someone calls them out on it, the caller is vilified, and those who made the outrageous claims are given a pass on their words....AGAIN.

Religious leaders make all sorts of overtly ridiculous claims about gods intent, or about his/her feelings towards 'the people,' and these leaders are given a pass on a DAILY basis. EVERY bit of progress we have made on this planet (real progress), has been done at the point of sharpened logic, has been made from the sweat of scientists....no god has made themselves known, no god has in any way demonstrably benefited ANY of us (aside from the good that humans have done in its name).

My heart has been open to the presence of ANY spirit for decades, and no REAL spirit has made itself evident. Plenty of fakers have been shown to me, many who wanted to show god to me made plain their belief and hearts, but no 'truth' was ever revealed. The hearts and minds of men are easily swayed by emotion and circumstance, they will believe in something simply because NOT believing leaves them out, or exposes them to an unsheltered existence in the real world. It is tough to take a scientific eye to such an emotional topic, but to NOT do so leaves open the opportunity for emotional dishonesty, which I feel helps no one.

Pollutants cause birth defects, our righteous technical advances cause defects.

And sometimes they happen just because...no pollutant was involved, no chemical altered the base functions of conception or initial formation. Sometimes, miscarriages JUST HAPPEN, and its not gods fault....its never gods fault. It's the real world, and sometimes, s#1@ happens.

Believe me, I have two young daughters myself, and they were born (relatively) healthy. Neither was perfect, but in the grand scheme, they will lead very normal lives, and will succeed at whatever they want to do, given hard enough work and dedication on their part. I put myself in these parent's shoes, and I cringe for them, I hurt for them, as they girls will need FAR more time, attention and love than either of mine to achieve the same goals. These girls have done no evil, they have not harmed a single soul, yet they they have been stricken with an affliction so difficult to overcome, it is heartbreaking. I cannot fathom a reason why any god would allow pollutants or technological improvements to affect them in such a way. And if their IS such a reason, then the god responsible is a particularly fickle and unpleasant sort.

We have seen a tiny article on MSNBC. There is no reason to conclude that these children are going to be less capable than the two young ladies here in the US who are conjoined in a similar way, though there is also no reason to conclude that these children will as capable.

We really do not know what will happen. It is my opinion that such children should be given typical care in hopes that a way might be found to help them. However, if the parents also specified that no extraordinary care be provided--particularly if such care would only preserve the physical child without significant brain activity--then I would honor that request.

There are many children in the US who are basically vegetables and are being cared for--how we treat the least capable members of society says a lot about us as a society. Those who would simply euthanize such children so as not to be bothered with them are free to express that opinion. However, unless there is no brain activity (and they can be reasonably thought of as brain dead) or unless there is great pain (and keeping the person alive is futile and probably cruel), then we at least have an obligation to provide palliative care for such children.

I have no idea why such things as conjoined twins happen--it is said that they happen to test our commitment to one another and to get us to think about important issues concerning life and death and the depth of our compassion. But, that's just what I've noted others saying.

In January 2009, Brittany Hensel announced that she was engaged.

I wonder how that works....

I want to undo my thought of wondering how that works.

No Peeking!

Now that guy must be some real fetishist. I wonder if it would be considered a 3some?

It's a menage a deux ans et demi.

It's a 2 and a half year old ménage? I don't understand...

menage a deux et demi?

menage a deux et la moitie?

The first one. ;)

Yes but from the waist down (although they each control one half ) they are essentially one person. This is a very personal questions but Yes... how would that work?

Oral Only.

omg Mark........lmao

From both, at the same time?

ML, you've made the best, most honest, most compassionate comment.

You must ask that question multiple times a day.

Do you also question such miraculous events as Jeana Giese? The preponderance of beauty in the world?

That truly merciful being gave us a brain to reason that this should have ended a long time ago as the parents wanted at first. Did you see in the article?...

Wang said Tuesday that the parents, who are farmers, did not want to have the babies....

It's evil greedy people or superstitious maniacs that use situations like this, not "god".

jkatz - Jeana Giese is a girl that survived rabies! What does that have to do with a two headed baby from China?

Thank you Joman. Well put.

This has less to do with God and more to do with nature. A "spontaneous abortion" is often nature's way of ending a pregnancy with a problem It is a wonder that we don't see more children born with issues given just how little it takes during early fetal development for things to go wrong. Having a child with no physical issues is truly a miracle.

Okay, well I just read the wiki article on the Hensel twins, and they each control half of the body... which amazes me.

After reading some of these posts, I googled the Hensel twins and watched an excerpt of an interview they did for the Learning Channel on YouTube. WOW! Before seeing that, I would have thought that being dead was better for someone being born with such challenges and differences, but after seeing their interviews, I can say that they seem to be as happy and fulfilled as "normal" people (and actually, happier than a number of people I know who have all their bits in the usual places).

They are very clearly two individuals who have been put in the unusual situation of sharing a body. No one has a choice about what kind of body we are born into, and these girls have made the best of their situation. They seem like completely delightful people, and although I'm sure that their lives are challenging in many ways (mostly in dealing with other people, I assume!!), they seem really happy to be alive. I hope these twins in China, if they are strong enough to live, will have equally happy lives. The Hensel twins have an unbelievable ability to work together to do all sorts of things: play sports, style their hair, play the piano. It's amazing!

@ Lee - kinda puts the things you and I complain about on a daily basis into perspective, huh? I hated having a roomate in college... these girls have a roomate in their own body, which makes my problems ridiculous in comparison. (I wasn't even able to make the best of my situation, choosing to move out as soon as I could... !)

I heard that the Hensel twins like playing softball. I wonder - do they count as two players, or one? Must make for an interesting batting order on the lineup card.

Sorry, I'm an umpire. It just caught my attention.

Go watch the interviews from the Learning Channel (excerpts are on YouTube) of the conjoined Hensel twins. They are adults now, and they are happier than a lot of other people.

I agree. I am wondering if maybe this couldn't have been picked up on an ultrasound earlier in the pregnancy. China has a glut of machines to determine the sex of their babies. They are in vans on the street, for Pete's sake. These twins are much more seriously conjoined than the American twins. Sometimes it's God's mercy and His will that they don't live.

Did it say somewhere they are on artificial measures?? uh no

AJ: Umm, not to be harsh but they look like a two headed calf. There will be a head that will determine what they look at and a head that's lopsided. These babies deserve better in life.

Seems to me that, if given the chance, they deserve to decide for themselves.

Are you certain the parents wanted to terminate the pregnancy? Could it be they wanted to walk away after the birth and not be involved in caring for this child/children?

Could it be after they were told their child was hugely deformed they did not want to expose it to the life of hell it would be required to partake?

I feel sorry for you!!! These are babies!! They are not like a dog when its sick you put it to sleep....get real!

If only they could speak for themselves.

Well, in a way they are. They're STILL ALIVE!

Borders are man-made. However, we are all humans, which makes us equal - how can you judge one life to be more worthy based on some arbitrary geographic boundry? Your comment is what is truly sickening, Cindy.

Your bleeding Socialist heart has been exposed buzz. It is not my responsibility, or that of my constituency, to be the nursemaid of the word. THEIR culture and THEIR laws will determine THEIR citizens fate. Why do you feel you have the right to dictate anything to others...much less to ME and the people of this nation. If you want to sent them your paycheck then fine..do it. Right now we want rid of about 5 million people receiving benefits that should not be in the USA. it would be wonderful if we could help everyone...but liberals forget...SOMEONE has to pay for it.

Don't you just love Republicans?

...Wait now I'm really confused I thought it's the right wingers that are trying too save everyone's unborn babies? Enlighten me on this.

Cindy, you're getting upset at something that hasn't even happened. No Americans are paying for this child. As my grandmother used to say: don't borrow trouble.

so that's how it rolls? if they're a 150 cell blastocyst, it's fine to kill doctors to protect their "rights" but if it's a living breathing creature out of the womb, surviving on its own...f#$k it. let it die, its on its own. and its also fine to drop bombs on people as long as they are brown and live in a different country.

you repubs are hilarious.

Oh congrats Mark - you're quite the investigator being able to expose my ability to see beyond a political border and view this as a human issue, not a political issue. I feel honored to be in your presence.

For starters, no one ever said American taxpayer money would ever be used to assist these girls with their medical care, so I don't know where any of this is even coming from. Secondly, major hospitals in this country do pro-bono work on cases like this privately, with their own funds, as much for the humanity behind it as for the publicity. That publicity raises interest in that hospital, increases it's profile, and allows it to attract the best and brightest that the medical field has to offer. In turn, those doctors and researchers perform studies, get grants, cure diseases, and save lives. What you view as bleeding-heart liberal, socialist, marxist, communist, leftist, collectivist, globalist, whatever-the-heck you're labeling people like me this week, can in reality be used to improve the quality of life and possibly save many lives for Americans, lives you apparently view as more valuable than any other life in the world.

It's also rather ignorant to believe that the US would be involved in the care of these girls, as Cindy seems to believe is the only possibly outcome. There are plenty of world class medical facilities in this world which are not located in the US - why do you automatically assume a US hospital would end up offering care to these people?

Nowhere in the article did it state that they're going to be treated by American doctors. Get off your high horse & take your rant somewhere else.

I was wondering when this discussion was going to get political!

As if religion wasn't enough to argue over.

seriously, he might have done better not to have provided them with their freakish condition. then again, maybe he gets a big ol' fat woody from the plight of children. that seems more accurate.

Religion aside, I repeat, who's to say this two heads business isn't adaptable. Evolution is a continuous process. It is just as likely to be the next phase of our own evolution as a tragedy. Mutations happen, frequently. Mutations are passed on. Often they are recessive, sometimes not. If they are adaptable, they continue on. When two mutagenic, recessive genes find one another, they are given expression. If the genetic expression again proves to be adaptable, it continues on, and so on.

Peculiarities, yes; To us. But it often seems, in evolution, that it will be the exception that proves the rule. Read up on Stephen Jay Gould. Theory of Punctuated Equilibrium.

Diatribe, that might work for Zaphod Beeblebrox, but here in reality, it's a little different. This is not an evolutionary adaptation; for it to be a success, it must benefit the species in some way. How in the world does this benefit the species?

All I'm saying is, who are we to judge? Technically all genetic mutations are potential evolutionary adaptations. Besides, this is a common thing; Identical twins whose single egg failed to separate completely.

Speciation is facinating, albeit arbitrary by definition.

Just because you or I do not know Gods plan does not mean there is know plan> Bad things happen to good people . Just because you are a christian-- or a person without faith --bad things still happen -- Your not exempt I am not exempt-- that was not promised to you or I --People have free will-- a lot of things could have caused those poor babies to be born that way --its always blamed on the Father--try using another avenue of thinking -that gets old too--

From my understanding this mutation is not genetic. It is two individual fetuses fusing together or failing to split completely before birth, no genetic mutations involved. So if they were to have a baby, it would be completely healthy.

Diatribe: Evolution is a continuous process. It is just as likely to be the next phase of our own evolution as a tragedy.

You know, I could see that. The way we have been moving toward physically isolating ourselves from each other, maybe this is nature's way of making sure we always have someone around to keep us company.

There was somebody earlier posted key facts regarding conjoined twins. Not the result of mutation, per se... but I like that within the initial conversations re. this story, people kept implying mutations b/c of pollution, et al. Mutation and the points at which we call a species divergent from another ("new") is something I find fascinating.

Humans seem to like to think we are through with all that messy evolving business. I'm more excited to see what comes next... I think.

Yeah, think "X-men."

:

"These things", are more come than you think, and go way back before chemicals were being produced by industry. These types of things are epic in ancient literature..

I don't know how I let that through my editing? "These things" are more common than you may think, is what I wanted to say.

Weyant, you might want to do some research before claiming chemicals as the cause of this kind of birth. I did. What I found is, while chemical exposure may increase the risk of certain birth defects, conjoined twinning does NOT appear to be among them.

Nonetheless, you make a valid point about our need to be more careful about what we "pump into our environment."

Not enough religious fanatics following this case to worry about.

This case - as any case of conjoined twinning - appears NOT to be related to any environmental factors.

Of course, future research may prove otherwise.