Uh, your kidding right?

Please do some real research before you hurt someone with you nonsense.

Let Bill take his own vaccines. All vaccines are not bad, but they are not all equal either. Like anything else, moderation is the key.

Vaccines arent totally safe. They are money-makers though!

Some vaccines still contain heavy metals- (proven harmful, especially to developing babies), they present a weakened virus to your body through an unnatural route (directly into the bloodstream) which can imbalance your immune system, and the quality control of production isnt stellar either (research bayer's mixup of vaccines containing the hiv virus for starters). Why do doctors stand behind them? Money and politics.

Ya, Gates is Sooooooooo smart. So smart he invested in a vaccine manufacturer then uses funds from a charity he set up to sell them. So smart he has not read any of the information about how flawed the "studies" are that promote them. SOOOOOOO smart as to be photographed in villages with no sanitation and spend billions on vaccines instead of sustainable clean water systems. He's an idiot who happens to have a lot of money and believes that euthanasia through vaccines is a way to depopulate the world. He's a sleaze.

GrammaKnows? Calling Bill Gates an idiot? It's like calling your dumb ass a genius, and we both know that's not the case.

Please go bark up another tree.

SOOOOOOO smart as to be photographed in villages with no sanitation and spend billions on vaccines instead of sustainable clean water systems.

You claim this, yet the Gates Foundation sponsors numerous clean and sustainable water initiatives. It's funny that you claim to be so smart that you can't even lie correctly. Just Google it.

He's an idiot who happens to have a lot of money and believes that euthanasia through vaccines is a way to depopulate the world.

I can't believe you seriously believe this. Yeah, they're selectively trying to kill people. As if. Get a life. This is exactly the kind of bogus thought process that leads to millions dying each year from preventable disease. As you sit up on your pedestal, having been vaccinated since birth, you try and tell others what to do. We have a lot of freedoms in this country. If you don't like it here, you have the freedom to leave. Why don't you go and live in one of these 3rd world countries? Because you're a hypocrite...talk a big game, but couldn't even fathom living the life of these people.

So smart he invested in a vaccine manufacturer then uses funds from a charity he set up to sell them.

Care to explain? No? Oh, so you'll just make stuff up now and lie? Okay. Suit yourself.

So smart he has not read any of the information about how flawed the "studies" are that promote them.

Yeah, it's all just a "coincidence" or "lie" that the countries with vaccines have the longest life spans & lowest childhood death rates. You're delusional. Let me guess...you've read all about the flaws in these studies on the Internet? Yeah, a peer-reviewed study or a guy in his basement who's typing out conspiracy websites -- which is more believeable? Yikes.

they present a weakened virus to your body through an unnatural route (directly into the bloodstream) which can imbalance your immune system

I absolutely LOVE when people give this as a reason for being anti-vaccine. This argument is totally bogus. When you get sick, your immune system kicks in with white blood cells and antibodies in the blood. When you get vaccinated, your immune system kicks in with white blood cells and antibodies in the blood. IT'S THE SAME THING! SAME MECHANISM! The fact that you pulled this "argument" from the Internet shows how little you understand the workings of the body's immune response.

Vaccines arent totally safe. They are money-makers though!

Actually they're not. Hence the reason most big pharma companies do not make them. Childhood mandatory vaccines are not made by the big companies because there is no profit in it at all...usually a losing proposition. But keep lying, you're doing great!

Please do some real research before you hurt someone with you nonsense.

Patrick, keep reading those conspiracy websites rather than actual scientific research! Those lies are fascinating, aren't they? Much better than the nonfiction section, where the actual research studies are located! The fact that we have the longest lifespans, very low incidence rate of childhood disease, even in spite of our obesity epidemic, shows how wrong you are.

I agree w/ the initial comment....some people talk about how dangerous vaccines are (which research has failed to show) and that its all about money and not how many lives are being affected and lost due to measles, meningitis and all these other diseases. Can you imagine what would happen in this country if not for vaccines? People were dying in their 20s and 30s prior to these vaccines being produced.

The original poster has it correct, but posts like 1.1 - 1.4 are going to get someone hurt or killed for no good reason. I sincerely hope nobody reads that misinformation and thinks its true. Luckily other posters have the common sense and ability to do a little research.

Vaccines are amazingly safe, there have not been heavy metals (i.e. mercury) used in vaccine production for decades, there is no link to autism, our population ha been protected and our life expectancy has increased about 50% in the past 50 years...all thanks to advances in preventative medicine. Why not the same for developing countries? Because you might "think" it's bad or some biased website told you so? Please do your own research using peer-reviewed scholarly articles.

As usual, mmmbear is drunk again and posting nonsense, like he/she always does and penguin loves to talk big pharma but fails to ever read an article about how vaccines cause autism or hurt the human body.

I guess it's up to each and everyone of you to do your own research.

There are some on these forums whom I hope get vaccinated heavily though.

penguin loves to talk big pharma but fails to ever read an article about how vaccines cause autism or hurt the human body

That's hilarious because there are no studies that show vaccines cause autism. Autism was around long before vaccines, and it shows up in the same proportions (i.e. 1 in 110) in unvaccinated people. Patrick, you do nothing but spout nonsense about how "evil" vaccines are, but you never show evidence...wonder why...oh yeah, because you don't have any evidence (just Internet rumors). Get a life and a clue. Show the "research" you have, or just go away. Everyone is tired of your lies.

Oh btw, you got vaccinated, and didn't "catch" autism. You don't know what it's like to have a close family member with the disorder, so before you go spouting off about how you "know" what caused it, how about you take the time and get to know someone with the disorder. Then you'll realize what autism actually is. Stop spewing hatred and viewpoints from other people on the Internet and actually do some of your own research (i.e. look at OBJECTIVE studies, not slanted websites) before you speak. Putting your foot in your mouth over and over again must be pretty disgusting, no?

It is no fun to have polio, TB, measles, mumps, or rubella so you may as well have the vaccines instead.

When you get vaccinated, your immune system kicks in with white blood cells and antibodies in the blood. IT'S THE SAME THING! SAME MECHANISM! The fact that you pulled this "argument" from the Internet shows how little you understand the workings of the body's immune response.

If its ALL the same please explain why immunity fails or wanes faster with the vaccine.

our population ha been protected and our life expectancy has increased about 50% in the past 50 years..

Oh you mean the whole correlation does not equal causation gambitt. It works both ways buddy.

Life expectancy has been increasing since BEFORE vaccines. It would be disengenous for you to give vaccines credit for something they couldn't have done. It is also to deceptive to only give a partial picture because giving the context would make your story look not as favorable. Why don't you give the statistics starting before 1900?

If its ALL the same please explain why immunity fails or wanes faster with the vaccine.

So you are stalking me again, Robert? This is typical from the anti-vaccine loons. Immunity wanes with both vaccines and getting sick. Your "natural immunity" you like to brag about lasts your first 12-18 months, and you think you're immune? C'mon man, just stop. Vaccines have boosters to boost immunity. What do you have with your way? Getting sick again...more symptoms, more deaths, more injuries your way. And you think that's acceptable? Yikes.

Life expectancy has been increasing since BEFORE vaccines. It would be disengenous for you to give vaccines credit for something they couldn't have done

Yes, sanitation got us so far, but vaccines kept it going. Have we gotten better sanitation since the Middle Ages? Sure. But that only gets you so far. Vaccines got us even further on top of that. You are deluded if you think that we would be living this long on average if vaccines were never introduced. Yes, sanitation helped, but you refuse to believe that vaccines helped too. As you said, it goes both ways, buddy.

Why don't you give the statistics starting before 1900?

Okay, we got better sanitation practices, and we got to X level of life expectancy, and it started to plateau. We got vaccination practices and we increased the life expectancy further, then we're starting to plateau now. It's snowball effect, Robert. Not all because of your better sanitation. We no longer have kids dying from measles and mumps and tetanus and TB, etc. You just can't admit that vaccines helped, can you??? ROFLMAO!

If the money was made in a not-so-desirable way, at least it's going for a good cause now. I was paid through the Gates Foundation when I worked in a malaria research lab. Now, that same lab is testing a malaria suppression drug.

Hey Karl,

Is that why Billy Boy is working on the malaria mosquito? More genetic engineering that will spread the problem it was supposed to combat.

Kerry, do you think that your nonsensical comments are adding to the discussion or detracting from it? I seriously find it hard to believe that you believe that a mosquito is being created to spread malaria. If you've got nothing to add, at least just stop typing. No one thinks your arguments hold any weight, and you just prove how ignorant you are with each posting. Stop if you can control yourself.

You just said a mouth full......YOU can not control me. That must really get your goat!

How does it feel to know there are people alive that do not follow the BS you swallow/spew?

Like you two are experts...at least he is giving his money back to fight global diseases. First, he is not the only businessman to send jobs overseas, so that is weak (unless you were one of those who lost your job and if so, I am sorry). Second, Dr. Martin, you do not know squat about vaccines. Money making scam? I bet you do not even know how the immune system works. Oh wait, there is not one in your body....that's right, otherwise how could big pharma convince the public that cancer and HIV exists?? At least Gates is trying...I do not see Jobs, Forbes, Buffett, and all of the other big players out there doing this forthright.

Bill Gates rocks! Whoever speaks against him is simply jealous of his bankroll and ideology. Don't hate the player, join the game!

You got that right Dr. Martin. But you see most are to stupid to realize all they are getting done to them is " forced vaccinations" Soon we won't be able to cross the border with out showing proof the people have been vaccinated.

I will be damned of the SOB Government is going to force my ass to take anything they can shove it, where the sun doesn't shine.

Let's not forget the shots help to slowly kill you while they are at it ...

http://youtu.be/Ju97KXc7-xA

Forced vaccinations coming

Illias reports "RFID = Radio frequency defice, satelite detectible. Mass Quarantine = H1n1 Vaccine is mandotory This video talks about the force vaccination, and martial law in United State this fall because of the outbreak of swine flu. The government will use the military to force vaccination to the citizen, the military will setup roads check points all over united states, and when you come to that road block, you have to prove that you toke the shot, and if you did they will put a tracking bracelet devices stating you are vaccinated. If you haven't taking the swine flu, the military at the checkpoint will offered you to get vaccinated, if you refuse to take the vaccine (which 87% of doctors and nurses in the states refuse to take it), they will put you in concentration camps build by FEMA.Once you've been taking there, good luck with that. Its martial law brother, that means the real court has no saying when martial is declare, the military takes over the justice."

http://youtu.be/ZiusxYyw16o

Police can forcefully make you take this shot- they are still pushing for it.

NON healthcare persons will be made to be vaccinated the police will do it,

if you don't do your children, they will remove your children from your home,

they are having people tell on each other, .................

OPEN YOUR GAWD DAM EYES to what your Government is doing to control you people!! WE ARE BEING FORCED TO DO THIS @!$%#................ SOUNDS LIKE HITLER Oh yeah Obamas the NEW HITLER.

You are seriously deluded. Get help. Besides the obvious spelling errors in the quote you used, no one is forcing mandatory H1N1 vaccinations, the military is not doing anything in this country to force vaccination, and the people that are "too stupid to realize" anything are people like you, who refuse to see preventative medicine for what it is.

If you don't like vaccinations, it's a free country -- do what you want. But don't come crying to us when you get sick...you hate the medical and government establishments, yet you couldn't live without your gov't services when you need social security or unemployment or roads...and you couldn't live without doctor or hospital visits. Get over yourself. If you don't like it here, you have the freedom to leave and live in that 3rd world paradise you think exists.

The original poster is going to get someone hurt with ignorance and lies. I sincerely hope nobody reads that misinformation and thinks its true. Vaccines are amazingly safe, there have not been heavy metals (i.e. mercury) used in vaccine production for decades, there is no link to autism, and guess what, our population is protected and our life expectancy has increased about 50% in the past 50 years...all thanks to advances in preventative medicine. By the way Bill Gates is not the only one supporting this, he's just the keynote speaker. There are many thousands, if not millions, of doctors, PhD's, college graduates, parents, health organizations, and consumer groups who support vaccination, making it a very very good idea.

People have lived for about 15,000 years (or whatever you want to believe) without vaccines. Besides, vaccines cause autism in babies.

Wow, how ignorant can you be? First off, we lived for about 15,000 years, but the life expectancy was only about 30-40 years? You know why? Many children died, shortening the average lifespan. Now that we have vaccines to prevent many childhood diseases, we live longer on average. Coincidence? No.

Secondly, the vaccine-autism link has been thoroughly debunked. You must live under a rock if you still believe the link that ONE FRAUDULENT DOCTOR made up. It's amazing how people will believe a lie perpetrated by a guy who wanted to make up lies about one vaccine so he could sell HIS OWN vaccine. He wasn't out for public health reasons...he was in it for greed. And science has proven him wrong. Keep living under that rock, though.

It may have been debunked in your mind. In my mind the countries with the highest vaccine overuse are also the countries with the highest number of stupid kids who can think okay but just will not talk to anybody.

Who the heck gets any rubella or measles anyhow?

A vaccine is supposed to trick the immune system. I am not sure how that affects the autism but apparently it does. And mostly in boys. So a good plan would be to totally vaccinate girls in some remote area such as Wyoming and only vaccinate half the boys. Then you could see how much rubella, measles, and autism there was to happen over the years.

I wish that vaccine on tender babies did not bring on the autism but the documented facts tell me that it does.

Who the heck gets any rubella or measles anyhow?

You don't get it do you? You don't get measles or rubella BECAUSE OF the vaccines, not in spite of them. Rubella is VERY dangerous to pregnant mothers (it affects the fetus), therefore, it is of great importance that we innoculate.

I wish that vaccine on tender babies did not bring on the autism but the documented facts tell me that it does.

Facts? You mean the fact that unvaccinated people have autism in the same incidence rate as in vaccinated people? You mean the fact that autism exists even in cultures that don't vaccinate? You must think that because doctors don't diagnose autism in other cultures that it doesn't exist. Go ahead, be an ostrich.

A vaccine is supposed to trick the immune system. I am not sure how that affects the autism but apparently it does. And mostly in boys.

Wouldn't you think that if autism were caused by vaccines it wouldn't affect boys 4 times as much as it does to girls? Does this not trigger something in your head that says it's something else at play? No? Seriously?

So a good plan would be to totally vaccinate girls in some remote area such as Wyoming and only vaccinate half the boys. Then you could see how much rubella, measles, and autism there was to happen over the years.

A good plan, huh? So you're okay with sacrificing children to disease just to prove that vaccines work? Are you mental? Would you want YOUR child to be sacrificed like this? Neither would I. But if you're so sure of it, you'd be willing to send your child to Wyoming to be tested against disease.

Oh, btw, this kind of thing already goes on. In Oregon, in a town where more than 25% of those go unvaccinated, measles and whooping cough outbreaks were reported. Hmmm, so maybe it's not just coincidence!

In my mind the countries with the highest vaccine overuse are also the countries with the highest number of stupid kids who can think okay but just will not talk to anybody.

This is BY FAR the most ignorant post on autism ever recorded. You think that autistic children are "stupid" and "can think okay but just will not talk to anybody"? Like they CHOOSE not to talk to anybody? You CLEARLY do not understand what autism is, nor how it affects individuals. Most are NOT below average IQ (actually, many have a HIGH IQ, much higher than you), most ARE verbal, etc. You have just proven yourself to be a joke.

By the way, did you ever consider the fact that the countries with the highest vaccine usage are also the countries with the best psychiatric diagnosticians? I.e. they're more likely to spot autism than in countries who lack the ability to understand the diagnostic criteria? So we understand it and can spot it better = more diagnoses. It doesn't mean it exists in a higher frequency, it means we're diagnosing it clearly.

I'm sorry, but you've shown yourself to be an absolute fool when it comes to autism. You are clearly unaware of even what it is, much less what causes it. Go back to your ignorant life and get a friggin' clue.

The truth has come out.

It is only in very modern times that autism even existed.

It is a direct result of modern medicine.

But you do not have to agree with me. Just go to the Amish community or the Quaker community or the Christian Scientists community and see how many retards they have? And I do not mean Downs because that is a different retardation and genetic defect.

Nobody is born with no autism. The get it from shots in the arm. The Torah is five thousand years old and the Bible is two thousand years old and the Koran is 1200 years old and there is no mention of normal kids who cannot talk.

I would have to agree to disagree that autism came along with modern medicine.

It is only in very modern times that autism even existed

Uh, no. Always existed.

It is a direct result of modern medicine

Uh, no. See above. Always existed.

But you do not have to agree with me. Just go to the Amish community or the Quaker community or the Christian Scientists community and see how many retards they have?

So you believe that a community with no doctors capable of diagnosing autism means that they don't have it? Brilliant logic there. Your statement has been debunked over and over again. Autism exists in these communities, they just don't have doctors to diagnose it. It's been proven. Sticking your head in the sand and making believe it doesn't exist does not make it so.

Nobody is born with no autism. The get it from shots in the arm. The Torah is five thousand years old and the Bible is two thousand years old and the Koran is 1200 years old and there is no mention of normal kids who cannot talk

So that whole "speaking in tongues" thing was made up in the Bible? I see.

At least if you're going to lie, do it well. At least try a bit better.

Peng,

Now you are just mincing words and using debating tactics.

Baby boys who get the MMR vaccine get the autism.

There is something in that vaccine or the carrier that inhibits normal brain development.

The autism cannot be treated but it can be prevented. Just do not give the kids autism.

Baby boys who get the MMR vaccine get the autism....The autism cannot be treated but it can be prevented. Just do not give the kids autism.

It's sad to see such an ignorant viewpoint be expressed. You should be ashamed.

There is something in that vaccine or the carrier that inhibits normal brain development.

Then why are 99% of us "normal" and only 1 in 110 "catch" autism? Your viewpoint has been proven to be nonsense over and over again. Is there any other lie you'd like to continue to use?

The autism is like the HIV. It comes out of needles.

I see Concerned is all for wasting more money to prove over and over and over again that VACCINES DO NOT CAUSE AUTISM....my son has a form of autism and it did not come from no shot! I want to know the cause but how many different credible reports does it take to get some of you people to wake up???? I believe some is genetic triggered by something in our environment... fertilizers, growth hormones in our foods, pollution etc! Please...if there is a god in heaven stop wasting money to try to appease some parents and find the real cause for those of us who want to know!!!

Nothing is perfect. Not even baby medical vaccines.

A newborn baby may get the vaccines first and then get diagnosed with some disorder later but that does not mean the vaccine caused the disorder.

Most newborn babies do not get out much and pick up a lot of diseases in their crib so maybe they can see if the baby laughs and smiles and looks a person in the eye before they start shooting them up with any vaccines.

That would not cost anything and would put the vaccine discussion totally to rest.

Concerned, you are just ignorant. Diseases in the crib? Looking in the eye? My autistic brother-in-law looks me in the eye all the time and he's clearly autistic. You spout off your ignorant thoughts just to be proven wrong time and time again. It must suck to be wrong so many times in a row.

The link to vaccines has been disproven time and time again. For ignorant people like you to perpetuate this myth is to do a disservice to all afflicted and their families. It's kind of ironic that you want to "put and end" to the vaccine debate, yet you're the one perpetuating it!

The link to vaccines has not been disproven. It may have been beat half to death but it has not been disproven.

Lots of healthy babies somehow or other got all unhealthy after they got their jabs.

The link to vaccines has not been disproven. It may have been beat half to death but it has not been disproven

The fact that you still believe this is beyond absurd. Look up all of the studies that came out recently.

http://www.ama-assn .org/amednews/2010/09/27/prse1001.htm

http://www.reuters .com/article/2008/01/08/us-autism-vaccinations-idUSN0425071020080108

http://www.wptv .com/dpp/news/region_c_palm_beach_county/west_palm_beach/new-finding-disproves-link-between-vaccines-and-autism

Just three of MANY studies disproving the link. When will you just admit that vaccines don't cause autism?

Add to that the fact that those Quaker and Amish studies have been proven to be phony, and you get the point.

Lots of healthy babies somehow or other got all unhealthy after they got their jabs

That doesn't prove that it was the vaccines, dummy. Lots of healthy babies somehow or another all got autism even though they HAD NOT gotten vaccines. And in the same proportion (1 in 110) as vaccinated babies. Hmm, maybe something else is at play? No, you just keep believing your made up stories.

Facts? You mean the fact that unvaccinated people have autism in the same incidence rate as in vaccinated people?

You have no citation for this because this study has not been done. You are trying to fester out your own conclusion from an epidemiological study that was not designed for you to make that statement. It's dishonest science for you to claim something that has not been done or can not be claimed based on science.

Now that we have vaccines to prevent many childhood diseases, we live longer on average. Coincidence? No.

Those life expectancy increases were happening long before vaccines. Most of the life expectancy changes happened before mass vaccines.

Just three of MANY studies disproving the link.

Another example of not knowing how science works.

Disproving a link and not finding a link are not the same thing. Get it? Stating them in a sentence to imply that they are is a dishonest interpretation of the science or the body of the study. Not even to mention that these studies have flaws that you have not even considered or you wouldn't have arrogantly made such a statement.

How many vaccines were studied? ONe. How many ingredients? One. To exonerate ALL vaccines or combinations thereof is dishonest.

You have no citation for this because this study has not been done.

Robert, you don't have to perform the innoculation vs. non-innoculation study to perform the statistical analysis. Statistical analysis has shown that unvaccinated people have autism. Same percentages (1 in 110 -- actually it's slightly more with the unvaccinated, but it's not statistically significant enough to make the distinction). Point blank, you're incorrect if you state otherwise. I personally know several of them myself, having met them while visiting my autistic brother-in-law. So I guess those people don't exist if you haven't met them.

It's dishonest science for you to claim something that has not been done or can not be claimed based on science.

Gotcha. All along you've been SCREAMING for a study to be done, and I've always told you that it's unethical to do so (you claimed otherwise). Now you're stating it isn't possible. So which is it Robert -- do you think that the study cannot be done or can be done? You've claimed both now.

Statistical analysis, however, can be done. That has shown your claims to be false.

Disproving a link and not finding a link are not the same thing

That's why they said "disprove". As in reject the null hypothesis. Proof that vaccinated and unvaccinated children are equally at risk for autism DISPROVES your theory.

How many vaccines were studied? ONe. How many ingredients? One. To exonerate ALL vaccines or combinations thereof is dishonest

Dishonest? Says the guy who IN SPITE OF ALL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY still states that it's a fact that vaccines cause autism. Dishonest? You should be able to recognize your own kind.

Not even to mention that these studies have flaws that you have not even considered or you wouldn't have arrogantly made such a statement

I love how you won't explain these flaws...you just "know" they have flaws because they disprove your theory.

Widely-accepted fact: Vaccines don't cause autism. Yet despite this, you still claim they do. Dishonest? Yes you are.

wow penguin...I see you picked up another ignorant soul!! Sorry about your luck...but I am still on your side...all you no vaccine ding dongs should go live on an island somewhere...far from the civilized world!

Judy, do you realize that adults and children die and/or are permenently injured from vaccines? Do you deny this?

Robert, you continue to deny that without vaccines MORE people would die. Until you admit this, you're a lost cause. How many died in Oregon and California in the last few years in the isolated whooping cough and measles outbreaks? MORE THAN DIED FROM VACCINES IN THOSE YEARS COMBINED. And that was just isolated communities where vaccination rates dipped slightly. It's sad to think that you believe no one would be killed by preventable diseases if we eliminated vaccines. Sad, and quite ignorant.

It's sad to think that you believe no one would be killed by preventable diseases if we eliminated vaccines. Sad, and quite ignorant.

What's sad is you don't understand what a strawman argument is. You continually use this emotional ploy over and over again. It show your complete and utter lack of logic. I thought you stood for science. I don't think so.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

"Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that."

It's just poor reasoning skills, penguin. Poor reasoning skills. If you want to arrogantly stand for science then you should be a better representation.

Why is my argument a straw man? You say you don't want vaccines because they cause VERY FEW deaths. I say without those vaccines, you'd have MORE deaths. That's not a straw man, that's examining the two alternatives and choosing the better.

Please elaborate on your position, or else go away. You don't like vaccines, we get it. To state that we would be better off without them is ludicrous, and flies in the face of science. YOUR argument is the one with complete lack of logic.

Please tell us what utopia you'd like to see. So far, we get that your position is: No vaccines. Please tell us how that would create a better society and healthier population (and please, for the love of God, show evidence to back up your claims).

If you want to arrogantly stand against vaccines, at least provide a logical alternative. Otherwise, you're spouting nonsense. It's as if because there are food-borne illnesses, you'd want to ban food, forgetting that this alternative would create starvation and more deaths. Your position is based on fear. Mine is based on science. Last I checked, science beats fear.

Why is my argument a straw man?

Comprehension, logic, and communication beseeches you, yet it cannot find.

Here it is again:

It's sad to think that you believe no one would be killed by preventable diseases if we eliminated vaccines. Sad, and quite ignorant.

Show me where I said this.

And since you can't because you're putting words in my mouth (ala logical fallacy straw man argument), please show me what sound logic you used to come up with said statement attributed to me by you.

It's dishonest debate. That's what it is. There is no debate you have a comprehension problem and logic problem which it makes impossible for you. You have to ask yourself. Do people avoid you and your conversations and opinions in your daily life? Much self reflection is in order.

No Robert....I will not jump on the ignorant vaccines kill bandwagon....cause I know it is a joke and a waste of researcher money...especially for those of us who want to know the true cause of Autism!

Wasted money? You mean like pro vaccine researcher Paul Thorsen, who spent millions of taxpayer money on his own personal ego.

Do you believe that vaccines can and have killed people?

Do you believe that vaccines can and have killed people?

Robert, the question isn't whether vaccines can kill. The question is whether they kill more than the preventable diseases they prevent. They certainly do not kill more than these diseases, so that is why you have an illogical argument. Your whole argument is based on "vaccines kill people", yet there are many more who would lose their lives if vaccines were not used. You fail to take this into account in your logic, and are therefore creating the straw man yourself. Either use them (less deaths) or don't (more deaths). You cannot have the "don't use them AND have less deaths" argument, because no alternative exists that would provide this input and output together.

They certainly do not kill more than these diseases, so that is why you have an illogical argument.

You do not understand the definition of logic dear sir penquin. Perhaps that is why you misuse it so much? It is a value judgement. Not an illogical statement.

and are therefore creating the straw man yourself.

You not know of how and what you speak.

You cannot have the "don't use them AND have less deaths" argument, because no alternative exists that would provide this input and output together.

You are insanely ludicrous with your logical fallacies and non sequitur statements. Your rants are incoherent and do not follow the line of thinking of which they start.

You do not understand the definition of logic dear sir penquin. Perhaps that is why you misuse it so much? It is a value judgement. Not an illogical statement.

Value judgment? No, it's illogical. Stating something that is the opposite of fact is indeed illogical. I guess you're trying to divert from the facts of the matter. Rather than debate the facts on vaccination (i.e. less people dying from vaccinations than the diseases), you want to have a debate on what logic is. I took a few logic classes in college, so I can go this route if you wish. But I'd prefer to stick with pulverizing your assumption that less people would die without vaccines. Show me the evidence or shut up.

You are insanely ludicrous with your logical fallacies and non sequitur statements. Your rants are incoherent and do not follow the line of thinking of which they start

Hilarious. You can't speak on the subject of vaccinations so you prefer to try and break apart logic. You really want me to break you down?

You not know of how

Sentence structure?

judgement

Spelling rules usually dictate judgment (no extra "e", but both are acceptable).

do not follow the line of thinking of which they start.

I love when you phrase something as if you're trying to impress someone.

your logical fallacies and non sequitur statements

Most importantly, this is the crux of your argument. You claim that I am being illogical. All I'm doing is asking you to expand upon your position. You can give or not give vaccines (more lives lost without than with). You claim there's some middle ground where you don't take vaccines, but sickness and death occur less than with vaccines. All I want is for you to expand on this idea. HOW does less death occur if you don't take vaccines? Your refusal to do so is not a strawman argument on my part: it is entirely your creation, and it's up to you to define what you'd like to see occur in America. Throughout our discussions, you refuse to tell me what you want to see happen.

One last time, Robert: WHAT IS IT YOU WANT DONE WITH VACCINES, AND WHY DO YOU CONSIDER THIS THE BEST OPTION?

How does your idea of not giving vaccines create less disease and death? You refuse to answer this, and hence, portray the ultimate illogical argument.

Value judgment? No, it's illogical.

Like I said. You don't understand what logic is. You have a comprehension of abstract ideas problem.

If I choose to jump on a grenade to save my dog that is a value judgement. If it is to save 4 dogs and 4 puppies it is still a value judgement.

You pushing me onto a grenade to save your puppies is unethical and also a value judgement.

So can you tell me with absolute certainty that If I give my child a several vaccines at once will he/she be absolutely protected from corresponding infectious death? Can you be absolutely certain that if I don't take the multiple vaccines that I will die or become disabled? Can you tell me that without a doubt that my child will not die or have a serious permanent reaction to vaccines?

Every SINGLE one of these are value judgements. Get it? No amount of attempted quantification will change that. I reserve the right to make my own value judgements in these situations. Not you. Not the state.

I believe the benefits of vaccines far out weigh the risks! Furthermore I find no legitimate correlation between vaccines and Autism!

I believe the hyped benefits and dangers of vaccines far out weigh the need for vaccines.

Furthermore I find more evidence to the correlation of vaccines and autism if the denial to the obvious when it is just passed off as no correlation.

I believe the benefits of vaccines far out weigh the risks!

your belief is based on the the erroneous concept of a homogenous public. It's a public health belief. Not an individual health reality. If one dies or is permanently affected by a vaccine then the benefit does not supercede the risk. Epidemiology can not tell what happens to an individual.

Furthermore I find no legitimate correlation between vaccines and Autism!

Because you do not look. Baby talk. Baby get vaccine. Baby no talk. Ever again. Get it? Got it.

Hannah Poling. It's not a correlation. It's a causation. Same with Baily Banks. Epidemiology can't tell you what happened with those kids. EVER. Get it?

BS to both of you...go ahead and spout your ignorance about vaccines...I would like to know the real cause of Autism for my child! GET IT!!!!!!

First easy question......Was your child vaccinated. Second.....How long after the vaccination did your child close down? Third.....How hard is it to see the obvious when you can not figure anything else out or are not willing to admit what has been proven?

Even if you believed vaccines caused your child's autism would you still be a proponent of them? Remember, titer tests can prove vaccines are in the system.

BS to both of you...go ahead and spout your ignorance about vaccines...I would like to know the real cause of Autism for my child! GET IT!!!!!!

Here are the facts:

All vaccinations don't cause autism

All of autism is not caused by vaccination

Vaccination can cause autism.

You want to find the cause for your child. Why are you so hell bent against others finding the cause for their child. If vaccination didn't cause your childs condition then what is your beef against people who are putting out the truth about vaccines and showing facts that the vaccine industry doesn't want you to know?

Did you know that Penquin has stated that there is no actual increase in autism. That it is caused by increased dx. That your child, would have just been called "weird" or "retarded" before?

If one dies or is permanently affected by a vaccine then the benefit does not supercede the risk.

Robert, again you fail to realize that there is no test for whether or not giving a vaccine (or not giving one) will harm a child. Therefore you do what reduces the risk...higher risk of disease and death by not giving one, so you do so. I really cannot see your point here. Less chance of disease and death when vaccinated. Yes, there are RARE cases of harm...but there are MORE cases of not vaccinating and becoming sick and/or dead.

Hannah Poling. It's not a correlation. It's a causation. Same with Baily Banks.

Once again, Robert, these children are NOT autistic. The doctors, courts, and parents agree with that conclusion. Brain injury? Yes. Autism? No.

Were they harmed by vaccines, sure. But even the parents agree that vaccines are necessary. THE CAUSE OF THESE CHILDREN'S CONDITION WAS SHOWN TO BE DUE TO GENETIC ABNORMALITIES. I.e. without the genetic dysfunction, no harm would have come to these children. So the root cause of their condition was an unfortunate DNA anomaly (mitochondrial DNA in the case of Poling). The vaccine may (or may not) have triggered the expression of this anomaly, but without the anomaly the condition would not have expressed. You unfortunately will never know whether the child would have developed normally without the vaccine, but in all likelihood, some other trigger would have been present in their environment which caused the expression. So in this case, it's not the vaccine, but the DNA anomaly that's the root cause.

First easy question......Was your child vaccinated. Second.....How long after the vaccination did your child close down? Third.....How hard is it to see the obvious when you can not figure anything else out or are not willing to admit what has been proven?

Kerry, there are unvaccinated children with autism, in the same proportion (1 in 110) as in the vaccinated population. Secondly, most parents see autistic traits before the child is ever vaccinated (especially for the MMR). You'll find a lot of parents (my wife's parents included -- their son is autistic) admit that they saw symptoms before the child ever got the MMR vaccine. Finally, the link to vaccines has been disproven. Only Andrew Wakefield "found" the link, and his study was shown to be fraudulent. All other studies since then have not been able to duplicate his results, and haven't even shown correlation, much less causation.

Remember, titer tests can prove vaccines are in the system

No, titer tests prove ANTIBODIES are in the system. This is actually from your own Dr. Tenpenny's website, Kerry:

Titer tests do not distinguish between antibodies generated by vaccination and those generated by natural exposure to disease agents through infection

You obviously don't understand what you're talking about. To harass a woman over her child's autism -- have you two no shame?

Vaccination can cause autism

Robert, please show a study that shows this. Banks and Poling are not autistic (that's been well-established), so please don't use that drivel again. SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE or stop your lies.

Did you know that Penquin has stated that there is no actual increase in autism. That it is caused by increased dx. That your child, would have just been called "weird" or "retarded" before?

Robert, lies get you nowhere. Please stop misstating the position. True autism (Rain Man) remains steady at 1-2 per 1,000 children (just like it always had been, with PDD-NOS and Asperger's being added to the autism spectrum definition in 1994, causing an "increase". The child would've been classifed as that diagnosis before (not just "weird" or "retarded" as you claim), but now the child is under the ASD umbrella.

Please stop with the lies. No one believes you.

You want to find the cause for your child. Why are you so hell bent against others finding the cause for their child. If vaccination didn't cause your childs condition then what is your beef against people who are putting out the truth about vaccines and showing facts that the vaccine industry doesn't want you to know?

A) Why are you so hell bent on "proving" it's the vaccines when all evidence points to genetics?

B) Why not show the "facts" about the vaccine industry? Because they're lies made up by people like you. NO CHILD HAS GOTTEN AUTISM FROM VACCINES. That's a fact. Unfortunately you think differently. Why should we expose children to disease and death if we don't have to? That's my question for you. Why should we have a study that purposely exposes unvaccinated children to disease just to try to prove your lunatic theories? Will you be accountable for any deaths associated with the trials? Of course you wouldn't sign on for that.

So in this case, it's not the vaccine, but the DNA anomaly that's the root cause.

It's never the vaccine to the brainwashed. Never. It's faulty children. Never the vaccine. VAccines are perfect. The vaccine program is perfect. Chemicals are perfect. It's the children's fault that they didn't comply with the chemical insult.

Kerry, there are unvaccinated children with autism, in the same proportion (1 in 110) as in the vaccinated population.

That you have no basis and zero scientific evidence for. You don't understand science or it's literature. This is obvious. If you disagree please provide the citation which shows the prevalence of autism in the unvaccinated. Then I can mock your comprehension of the scientific literature. Stop calling yourself a scientist. You're not.

Secondly, most parents see autistic traits before the child is ever vaccinated (especially for the MMR)

Again do you have a scientific reference to back up this claim or are you pulling it out of what you think to be true. I bet the latter.

Finally, the link to vaccines has been disproven

Again, disproven and not proven are not the same. You taking liberty to redefine conclusions is dishonest or just plain ignorant. Maybe you actually believe they are the same. A real scientist knows better.

NO CHILD HAS GOTTEN AUTISM FROM VACCINES. That's a fact.

This is false. It is obvious that you don't understand the limitations of epidemiological studies. You're making inferences that you can't back up. No legitimate scientist would ever say the above statement. But if you're in denial AND do not understand inferential empiricism then I could see the arrogance and the ignorant certainty.

Robert, the question isn't whether vaccines can kill.

Yes it is. I just asked it.

Yes it is. I just asked it

Okay, then. I've got a question: Which kills more -- the vaccines or the diseases they prevent? I'll give you a hint -- it's not the vaccines.

It's never the vaccine to the brainwashed.

It's never anything other than vaccines to you.

That you have no basis and zero scientific evidence for.

No basis? I'VE MET THEM. That's my basis. Unvaccinated autistic teenagers and adults that work with my autistic brother-in-law at a sheltered workshop. Add to it the unvaccinated children from the Amish and Homefirst communities that have autism (Homefirst has no psychiatrists to diagnose autism, and kicks the children out of the practice if they go elsewhere to get diagnosed -- what a sham!). No basis? This from a guy who's never MET an autistic person and claims without evidence that it's from vaccines. Yikes.

Again, disproven and not proven are not the same.

You're right, they're opposites. Genetic link to autism = proven. Vaccine link to autism = disproven.

This is false. It is obvious that you don't understand the limitations of epidemiological studies

It's obvious you don't understand the idea that "symptoms presenting LIKE autism" is not the same as "is autistic".

Robert, you continue to lie. I don't get it. Why? Why do you persist that children get autism because of vaccines? Children were autistic before, children will be autistic after. The same percentage of children were PDD-NOS before it was under the autism umbrella. Now that it's under the umbrella, they're labeled as autistic. Your logic (or lack thereof) scares me.

Show me one child who got autism from vaccines. One. Banks and Poling are not autistic. They have brain injuries, but are not autistic (that is well-documented). Show me one.

It's obvious you don't understand the idea that "symptoms presenting LIKE autism" is not the same as "is autistic".

Autism IS a collection of symptoms. There is no objective diagnosis.

Autism IS a collection of symptoms. There is no objective diagnosis.

The fact that you don't understand what autism consists of is absolutely astounding, considering you consider yourself an expert on the vaccine-autism theory.

Autism is a complex neurological disorder with an objective diagnosis. From the DSM definition of autism spectrum disorder, you have to meet certain criteria to be classified as autistic. It's not just one or two symptoms and boom, you're classified. It is at least one symptom from each of three categories, which shows the broad-based cognitive and social deficits with which these children are afflicted. Banks and Poling may show one trait or another, but they do not meet the criteria for autism. They may have the "hand flapping" behavior or the focus on one or two key subjects (like bugs in the case of Max on the show Parenthood). But they don't have symptoms or traits in all three categories to put them on the spectrum. Therefore, they are not autistic, and something else is responsible for their developmental delays (like brain injury in the cases of Poling and Banks). While vaccines may have been a part of their injury, no doctor has termed these children autistic because while they have similarities, they do not fit the ASD definition.

THIS is why you don't know what you're talking about. There is a clear-cut definition of autism in the DSM (the only book that can be used to diagnose autism). You clearly have shown you have no knowledge on autism. Please stop putting your foot in your mouth...you're embarrassing yourself.

The fact that you don't understand what autism consists of is absolutely astounding, considering you consider yourself an expert on the vaccine-autism theory.

And then you procede to go blah, blah, blah without a shred of evidence to counter argument.

Please name the definitive objective diagnostic criteria for autism. Please. you can't do it.

Please counter the statement that autism is a collection of symptoms.

Please name the definitive objective diagnostic criteria for autism. Please. you can't do it.

Autism is defined in the DSM-IV as exhibiting at least six symptoms total, including at least two symptoms of qualitative impairment in social interaction, at least one symptom of qualitative impairment in communication, and at least one symptom of restricted and repetitive behavior.

Those categories are broken down further into OBJECTIVE DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA, which the psychiatrist would use to assess the child. All you have to do is look at the DSM. It's not my fault you're ignorant of what's in the DSM. I have a copy at home, if you'd like (wife has a master's in psychology).

No objective diagnostic criteria? Hardly. Keeping your head buried in the sand doesn't get you to see it though.

Just a collection of symptoms? Rrriiiiight.

Those categories are broken down further into OBJECTIVE DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA

Please name the OBJECTIVE diagnostic criteria. I hope you don't think a questionaire on symptoms that has been quantified is objective. Subjective use of numbers don't mean objective mr. penguin.

Objective would be a blood test. A genetic test. An MRI. Somthing straightforward. You have said that the reason for increased diagnosis is increased awareness and label changes. Is that subjective change or objective change that caused the increase in diagnosis?

Just a collection of symptoms? Rrriiiiight.

If it is not diagnosed by collection of symptoms then by how? You just demonstrated that it was. Does bloodwork or an MRI determine if one has Asbergers or autism. Or is it based on symptoms?

My child was vaccinated...and he closed down at the age of 7...well after all the vaccines...he was actually fine before during and after all vaccines and had every one on schedule.

I would like studies on growth hormones in our foods and milk, pesticides used on food and in the general environment, crap put in the water to supposedly make it safer along with genetic factors!

I would like studies on growth hormones in our foods and milk, pesticides used on food and in the general environment, crap put in the water to supposedly make it safer along with genetic factors!

Those are all reasonable.

NOT true. There is NO prov-en link with autism and vaccinations.

It's amazing how many people are still ignorant with respect to autism and vaccines. A lie 20 years ago by one defrocked doctor (who was looking to register his own vaccine after discrediting the MMR) has turned into people like 11madness who just think that autism is linked to vaccines. Yet Rain Man was filmed in the 80s, before all of this...so perhaps it was always there and we just classified them as "retarded" or institutionalized them (like Rain Man) to avoid seeing the problem. Either way, 11madness is just an ignorant fool. Best to ignore idiots like this.

and that's a good reason not to believe Vaccines can't do this crap to people. Don't you see the effects it had on you. The Feds had their hands wrapped around your brain a loooooooooong time ago. That's the reason for your comment PENGUIN.

Uhhh, I have had personal experience with these Vaccines, my sisters daughter ended up having seizures because of these shots. How do we know it was the shots, because by the time she had to start school ( K) her mother forced the hand of the DR. told him yrs of the symptons right after the shots from 6 mos. old on up, ............... long story short, the DR REMOVED the DPT in the shot,

She never had a seizure again Uhmmmmmmmmmmm,

so don't tell me or anybody else these shots don't cause an array of things.

Why do you think there is so much Autisim it's been running rampant and people are finally picking up on what it really does.

Just as the silver fillings in your mouth.

again WAKE THE HELL UP you dumbed down part of so called America......

I remember when America was America and what it use to be like before all the asses erupted out of the wood work from all the Liberal ass colleges teaching their liberal b.s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiusxYyw16o

The Feds had their hands wrapped around your brain a loooooooooong time ago. That's the reason for your comment PENGUIN.

No, the reason for my comment is based on a review of objective research, not slanted Internet articles that you seem to enjoy. Nice try to discredit me, though.

Uhhh, I have had personal experience with these Vaccines, my sisters daughter ended up having seizures because of these shots. How do we know it was the shots, because by the time she had to start school ( K) her mother forced the hand of the DR. told him yrs of the symptons right after the shots from 6 mos. old on up, ............... long story short, the DR REMOVED the DPT in the shot,

So let me get this straight. The kid had seizures because of an unreported vaccine injury, then got vaccinated again later, and she magically had no more seizures? So the second vaccine "cured" the first? You make a confusing story.

Why do you think there is so much Autisim it's been running rampant and people are finally picking up on what it really does.

You really don't know, do you? It's been disproven OVER and OVER and OVER again that it's not vaccines. The increase in autism diagnosis has to do with the definition change for autism about 17 years ago in 1994, which changed autism to ASD (autism spectrum disorder). You now have millions more children who wouldn't have been characterized as "autistic" in the 80s that are now characterized as ASD. Your conspiracy theory holds no weight. Sorry.

I remember when America was America and people didn't believe every stupid conspiracy theory floating around on the Internet.

As a mother with a child who has a mild form of autism....it is NOT the Vaccine's!!! I am so sick of hearing this ignorant argument...how many times and how much money needs to be wasted to prove this and make some of you people happy??? I want monies donated to Autism Research to find the cause...not continue to disprove the garbage that some believe.

What is a mild form of autism and is your child a boy child or a girl child?

If it were up to me I would use electroshock therapy on their little brains.

Either you look me in the eye and talk to me or you will get some more.

The autism rate would plummet.

Concerned...you should be concerned because you are the most ignorant person on this discussion board. Electroshock? Seriously? You clearly don't understand what autism is (as shown with your "what is mild autism" comment) and don't understand that it's not just "a phase" to be shocked out of kids. Please stop -- you're embarrassing yourself.

If you're doing this just to get a rise out of people, I'm sure your family's proud. You should be ashamed of yourself. You are ignorant, and you're antagonizing families afflicted with autism. Have you no shame? Karma's going to love kicking your butt.

Autism is just kind of a fake phrase for a kid who is slow. The fact that there are supposed to be "degrees" of autism tells me right there that it is all fake.

Some kids are just mentally retarded. It is usually because their mothers used alcohol or drugs when she was pregnant. Or maybe it was just bad genes or bad luck.

I feel bad for the parents of kids who are afflicted with autism. It must be hard when your own child cannot look you in the eye because that would be too intense for them.

It is all the fault of mandatory hospital vaccines but if you say that somebody is sure to get mad.

Autism is just kind of a fake phrase for a kid who is slow.

You've obviously never met an autistic person if you think this. You're the most ignorant person out there.

Some kids are just mentally retarded. It is usually because their mothers used alcohol or drugs when she was pregnant.

Yeah, that was the thought 60 years ago, when all these theories of yours were debunked.

Autistics are actually way smarter than you, on the whole. You know what happens when you assume, right? You're making a complete fool out of yourself.

It must be hard when your own child cannot look you in the eye because that would be too intense for them.

How cruel are you? I mean, do you just want to antagonize the people actually affected by the disorder and their families? It must be hard for you to be so uncaring. As if you don't have problems. As if. Karma's going to be extra hard on you. It's ignorant comments like yours that perpetuate the stereotypes and false beliefs of this disorder. You've never met an ASD child, and you're ignorant of the entire class of disorders.

Some austic victims are really smart in terms of understanding things in their own intellect.

They just will not look at you or talk to you or let you touch them.

It is all very sad because they are perfectly good kids with one minor disorder than makes it hard to them to deal with people.

What makes it so frustrating is that it is not a big problem and there is nothing major wrong with these kids.

There is just some medical or genetic key that did not get turned. Or else they got baby vaccine shots that messed them up.

It is all very sad because they are perfectly good kids with one minor disorder than makes it hard to them to deal with people

A neurological disorder that messes up the ability to communicate and read/interpret social cues is not "minor", and you give the impression that they don't want to deal with people...the disorder is responsible for them not being ABLE to...it's not "not WANTING to".

There is just some medical or genetic key that did not get turned. Or else they got baby vaccine shots that messed them up.

So you almost got it there. It IS a genetic key that got messed up. But then you turn right back to the vaccines, which has been proven to be a false lead.

What makes it so frustrating is that it is not a big problem and there is nothing major wrong with these kids.

You don't think that autism is a problem? You're heartless and ignorant. Parents cannot fully communicate with their children, and many autistic children will never be able to live on their own...you don't think that's a problem? Stop the cruel posts and go back to living under your rock. It's clear to all of us that you don't even understand what autism is, much less what makes it occur.

Autism must be what happens when kids enter their teens. There is almost no parent who can communicate with a teen.

But it is good that autism is getting so much attention. In the last NASCAR race there was a car with a big puzzle piece painted on the hood racing for Autism Awareness instead of for some beer or tool company.

At least the austism advocates are accurate about the 1 in 110 number. The breast cancer advocates go way over the top with all of their screeching.

Concerned....despite your rude insult I will answer! My son has Pervasive Developmental Disorder which is a mild form of autism where they block out everything around them. He has also been officially diagnosed with bipolar...and it was not any f*ing vaccine that caused these things. I agree with Penguin...you are obviously very clueless!

Judy,

I did not know the one person could have three or four mental disorders. You must have your hands full.

I do have my hands full...I am fortunate to have a very cooperative school, counselors and an awesome psychiatrist...although every day is a new day in my world...lots of ups and downs, but the support of my friends and family helps....until one has walked in the shoes of a parent with an afflicted child they have no idea!

Judy,

Everyone has different gifts. I am pleased to hear that you have so many caring professionals to help your child find their gifts.

A person can have empathy and understanding for a person in a situation without walking a step in their shoes. Otherwise why would anyone take advice from a celibate Catholic priest about anything at all?

I did not exactly mean to say that your child has multiple mental disorders. Maybe it is developmental or emotional or some other term if you want to be correct.

Concerned...again you show your ignorance. Pervasive developmental disorder (PDD) is a subset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD). Look it up in the DSM, provided you know what those initials mean. I have a copy here if you need to borrow it.

A person can have empathy and understanding for a person in a situation without walking a step in their shoes

And then there's you, who shows a complete LACK of empathy for those afflicted with autism and their families.

Stick to what you know (NASCAR) and leave the real thinking to those with basic human compassion and an education above the 3rd grade.

I feel no need to memorize medical terms.

I think I know a little bit about history and in all my reading of history I never read once where one person out of 110 acted autistic or whatever term you want to throw around.

What you have now is a negative miracle. Perhaps even the harbinger of the end of the world.

I did see a Bruce Willis shoot em up movie where the key character was an austistic savant who could solve puzzles just be looking at them. Not as famous as Rain Man which is the Godfather of autistic savant movies.

And I did see a segment of Sixty Minutes years ago that was amazing. They had one kid who could play a piano from memory and another kid who was a perpetual calendar. You say "September 17, 1773" and he says "that was a Tuesday" and he was always right. And he could do it the other way around just the same. Now how in the world could some kid be a perpetual calendar? There is something odd in that autism.

I feel no need to memorize medical terms

And hence the reason you don't even know what autism is, much less what causes it. You confused it with ADD in another post. Moron.

I think I know a little bit about history and in all my reading of history I never read once where one person out of 110 acted autistic or whatever term you want to throw around

Perhaps because the term "autistic" was coined only 50 or so years ago. And the current definition, encompassing PDD and Asperger's was only created 17 years ago. And you know history? Yikes.

I did see a Bruce Willis shoot em up movie where the key character was an austistic savant

So you're basing your knowledge of autism history on movies. Brilliant.

And I did see a segment of Sixty Minutes years ago that was amazing. They had one kid who could play a piano from memory and another kid who was a perpetual calendar

That's not autism, dude. That's another condition. So far, you've confused that and ADD with autism. You've got quite the track record. Care to be wrong again? Again, you don't even know what it is, much less have met an autistic person or been able to diagnose how they got it. All the research shows it's genetically-based (due to repetitive or deleted/added DNA sequences). But you keep on believing it's vaccines, and we'll see where that gets you. I remind you: EVEN UNVACCINATED CHILDREN HAVE AUTISM. It's not the vaccines.

I fin it sad that you make fun of these people, showing a lack of understanding and empathy, and you can't even define what autism is and isn't.

Ever wonder why some people might suck in math, or reading, skills in general. You think people are fine who take these shots, when really they aren't . Learning disabilties are proven over and over DO YOUR PEOPLE READ THE INSERTS/WARNINGS that come on these gawd damn shots, NO you take the DR.s word on it and just take it. Just like millions of other Americans' who fell for this bull@!$%#.

READ THE INSERT ASSES of America who can't seem to fathome the Government doesn't give one damn cent about you and never will, all they care about is how much they can't get out of your pay check. and yes that Includes OBAMA the worst of any President in history.

The fact that you can't spell (even your own screen name) really proves how little you know. Do people get hurt from vaccines and medicine? Rarely. Would more people get hurt and die if vaccines and medicine were not available? Certainly. I'm sorry you feel that your relative had a seizure after taking a shot (which you then said she recovered from). Would it have been better if she died from a preventable disease?

This has nothing to do with politics, btw...it's public health. If you think it's liberal or conservative people making this stuff up, that's your own issue that you have to wrestle with. If you want to not have vaccines and live in a disease-riddled world, move out of the U.S. and see how much better it is.

Oh, and you got all the vaccines when you were a child, and we didn't see the issues you raise back then...why now? Because fears on the Internet have altered people's ideas.

There are so many unworkable problems in Africa that bumping up the vaccination rate is like carrying one handful of sand to the beach.

Perhaps Bill Gates could send some jobs to Africa. That way those healthly people could have some hope to go with their good health.

They would have to be jobs for women because African men will not work.

Wow, you seem to be able to inject racism, sexism, and blatant ignorance all in one post. Congrats! You are the worst person in history. You should be proud.

Better sanitation, clean water, and vaccines are all something the Gates Foundation is funding (not Gates himself, the foundation he set up...yes, there's a difference).

While it's not going to solve every problem facing Africa and other places, it at least is going to help. Unlike your post, which is just racist, sexist, and ignorant. Posting your ridiculous arguments is akin to carrying a handful of sand to the beach.

Hey, Penguin,

I have nothing against Africa. I have nothing against Indonesia either.

According to the scientists Africa is where the apes fell out of the trees and started being humans with thumbs and vocal cords and brains that worked.

So if the human being in Africa have a multi-thousand year head start they should be the most developed and accomplished.

Bill Gates Foundation has lots of money and they can build a thousand water plants and a thousand sewer treatment plants in Africa. No doubt about that.

When Bill Gates Foundation moves on how many of those two thousand plants will continue to operate properly?

You know the answer to that and I know the answer to that and Bill Gates himself know the answer to that. None of them. Not a single one.

2011 is not the first time that dogooder charity has been tried. It has been tried 50,000 times before and 50,000 projects have failed once the outsiders and the money has been withdrawn.

I am not ignorant. Well, maybe, but not just to be mean, but because I am kind of dumb and stupid in a lot of ways.

I certainly applaud Bill Gate Foundation for taking a step in the right direction in Africa. This may be the straw that stirs the drink.

And, by the way, it was me who pointed out that the multinationals extract every resource from Africa but never seem to point much employment there.

If the U.N. or whoever keeps score says that Nigeria is just about the worst place on Earth in spite of abundant natural resouces and Switzerland and Sweden are the best places to live in spite of dismal natural resources I just want to know why?

I have no dog in this fight. I am not trying to promote Switzerland and put down Nigeria.

I am trying to say that Africa, as a continent, seems to be an enormous fruit salad bowl of natural resouces and a cauldron of human suffering of all sorts.

The only places you can still find actual chattel slavery is in Africa and Haiti. Genocide happens now and then around the world but not so much in Europe or North America.

Keep showing your ignorance and antagonizing people. Have you no shame? Does it make you feel proud to put down those that are unlike you?

So what you're saying is that you feel that Africa is lazy and you are great. Aren't you the ones who enslaved the Africans? So you're admitting you're racist. Good job there.

More ignorant comments from an idiot. I hope this makes you feel proud inside. You said it best: You're dumb and stupid in A LOT of ways.

I may be dumb and stupid but I try to be realistic.

There are two places where you can find actual human slavery today. Africa and Haiti.

There is one place where you can find autism today. Kids who have been shot up.

I do not make these things up. These are the facts as reported by responsible and highly professional journalists.

In the entire 15,000 years of recorded human civilization there was never such a thing as autism until modern medicine.

All of the sudden, in historic terms, 6% of the kids have autism.

I like these ad campaigns about put together the puzzle of autism. I already got it put together. You shot up and child and @!$%#ed him or her up.

There is a country called Mali. It is very poor. I bet the child or adult autism rate in Mali is 0.0000000. Look it up.

Some of you people get so emotional that you think whatever you want to be true, is true.

I am not so emotional and I know that shooting up kids gives them brain damage and autism.

I may be dumb and stupid but I try to be realistic.

You got it right only on the first part. You are dumb and stupid. And ignorant.

There is one place where you can find autism today. Kids who have been shot up.

Nope. Wrong again. It must be tough being wrong so many times in a row. Unvaccinated children have autism too. Look it up. Same proportions as vaccinated folks. Those Amish and Quaker studies have been shown to be bogus. Nice lies though.

In the entire 15,000 years of recorded human civilization there was never such a thing as autism until modern medicine

Because the phrase autism only appeared 50 years ago you assume that these people didn't exist before. How stupid are you? You think they didn't exist prior to the definition? Absurd! Ignorant fool.

I bet the child or adult autism rate in Mali is 0.0000000. Look it up.

I'll bet they have no psychiatrists to examine and diagnose them, that's why. You're quite foolish...you prove it with every post.

I am not so emotional and I know that shooting up kids gives them brain damage and autism

What you claim to "know" has been proven OVER and OVER and OVER again to be false. Lies do not make your statements true.

You can screech and yell all you want but I think the facts stand for themselves.

I see you have brought up everything good you have to say about Bill Gates.

You sound like a eugenicist. The world is NOT overpopulated.

I wonder if they will put birth control"stuff" into the vaccines? I wouldn't put that past BG. The world is not overpopulated.

So in the course of human history we've got 6.5 billion or so, and you're saying that it's going to triple within 84 years? Seriously?

Go out to Wyoming and tell me that it's overpopulated.

Tek,

The world is hugely overpopulated. The Green Revolution and medical advances have nearly doubled the population since the 1960's while the digital revolution of computer driven everything has done nothing but to eliminate jobs.

There are about two billion people out of seven billion who do not have a pair of leather shoes and a bicycle to their name. Or anything else.

Do not say that the world is not overpopulated because it is.

Eugenics is a bad word. Nobody will get far playing God.

Population and migration are huge issues and getting bigger with each passing day. How many Africans can Italy absorb? All of them? Half of them? .02 percent of them? It is not a question that will just go away when it falls out of the news cycle.

"Concerned" -- While Italy and other places might not have much room for population expansion, those places that do have high birth rates are not overpopulated. Again, go out to Wyoming and tell me they're overpopulated out there.

Nobody's asking to play God. Vaccinations will actually HELP the world overpopulation problem, if you think about it. More children will grow up healthy, be able to work, and provide for the sustenance of their families, as opposed to children needing food, shelter, clothing, etc. and providing no assistance to their families. The less disease, the more health and wealth countries are able to provide. Nobody's trying to kill anyone. We're trying to make the rest of the world as disease-free as we are here in the U.S. so their countries can get healthier (both personally and economically).

Vaccines make us healthy. Continuing the cycle of disease and starvation and unclean water helps no one.

Peng,

I appreciate your well reasoned reply but again I have to disagree with and and explain my reasoning.

When I say "population" I am not saying that I believe I am the judge of how many people should live in their own nation. What I mean to say it that if the population gets a lot bigger than the economy, the population has nothing but misery ahead of them.

You can look at any metric you like. Anywhere you like. But if you bring up a nation with a relatively small population and and relatively large economic engine I will show you a nation with low poverty and misery and death.

USA or Qatar or Australia or Sweden or Luxembourg or Switzerland or UAE.

You take your turn and point out to me the one nation in Africa in which you are your family would like to live.

I agree with you that the population density in Wyoming is low because there is not much there. But the population density in Africa and the Mid East is high and there is not much there either.

The population density in Wyoming certainly is low because there are better place to live in America with more opportunity and a bigger economic engine.

But in the tribally overpopulated parts of the world the have no destination. They have no hope and their best dream is that they die sooner rather than later.

But the population density in Africa and the Mid East is high and there is not much there either

Really? It has less people than India or China, and is much bigger. And Japan is much denser. And the Mid East isn't dense at all. You may BELIEVE that it's dense, but that doesn't make it true. The continental US is actually more densely populated than Africa. I live in NJ, the most population dense state in the union, and it's not even close to overcrowded (it is the Garden State, after all).

But in the tribally overpopulated parts of the world the have no destination. They have no hope and their best dream is that they die sooner rather than later.

Yup, more ethnocentric attitude from the #1 ignoramus on the board. You sir, are a disgrace to this country. YOU are the reason the world hates us. You want to screw the rest of the world to benefit yourself. Congrats, you are ignorant. Have you ever been outside the US? Didn't think so. You're a fool.

Why would everyone in the world wish to hate me?

Because I bring up some facts?

If somebody is born in a bad place that is because they parents decided to have another kid in a bad place.

The parents can have as many children as they like. I do not have to feel sorry for the litter of them.

Because I bring up some facts?

No, because you're racist and ignorant. Sorry that you were raised racist and ignorant by your parents.

If somebody is born in a bad place that is because they parents decided to have another kid in a bad place.

And your parents were good parents because they decided to have you in the U.S.? What an arrogant and ignorant attitude.

The parents can have as many children as they like. I do not have to feel sorry for the litter of them

Nobody's asking you to feel sorry for anyone...you're saying not to vaccinate based on fear...ignorant fear.

I would agree that I am ignorant but I would have to take issue with that racist bit,

Not that I care if anyone considers me a racist any more than a Democrat, but because it is not really true.

As long as anybody lives in a country will a large population and a small econcomy there is going to be nothing but poverty and everything that goes along with poverty.

I am not sure what racist has to do with it.

I would agree that I am ignorant but I would have to take issue with that racist bit,

You've shown yourself to hate Africans and think that their problems are entirely their own, while glorifying America and its "normal" people like yourself. If you don't see the arrogant racist undertones, that's not my fault, it's your own.

As long as anybody lives in a country will a large population and a small econcomy there is going to be nothing but poverty and everything that goes along with poverty.

Not true at all. You've just shown your ethnocentrism (do you even understand what that term means?) once again. YOUR definition of poverty is not living like you do. How arrogant and ignorant! Have you even been to another country? I mean besides the touristy spots.

You are totally incorrect. If about half of Africa is the Sahara and there is no way to live off of the Sahara, why would that make me hate Africans?

A big part of Australia is pretty much unlivable desert and that does not make me hate Austalians. A lot of New Mexico is unlivable desert and that does not make me hate people who live in New Mexico.

I have been to Wyoming. If you ever want to see miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles you should see Wyoming. And I do not hate them either.

Most every sort of person who lives anywhere lives in South America. And they all seem to get along just fine. Maybe the rest of the world can take a lesson or two from South America.

Mali has more poverty than Monaco but that does not in any way indicate that the residents of Monaco are inherently superior to the residents of Mali.

Concerned we wish to hate you because your facts as you call them are based on ignorance!

Huh? That does not even make sense.

Facts are the opposite of ignorance, not the exact same thing.

If about half of Africa is the Sahara and there is no way to live off of the Sahara, why would that make me hate Africans?

Half? Not even. You really don't know what you're talking about.

If we have the facts, and you say that the opposite is ignorance and you are the opposite of us, you've just proven yourself to be ignorant.

Again, stick to what you know (NASCAR) and butt out of debates where you can't even get your facts straight.

I do like my NASCAR. People actually work for a living in NASCAR instead of asking for handouts. There are no starving kids because NASCAR people do not let kids go hungry. And the is no "we are the world" stuff because in NASCAR the world begins in North Carolina and ends in California.

There other "pro" sports are nothing but a litany of strikes and walkouts and lockouts. If the owners are not going on strike, the players are going on strike, and if the players are not going on strike the officials are going on strike.

NASCAR does not have strikes, boycotts, lockouts, walkouts, or contract negotiations being done in public.

People actually work for a living in NASCAR instead of asking for handouts. There are no starving kids because NASCAR people do not let kids go hungry.

Yikes. Go keep paying money to watch people drive in circles. Fast. No starving kids in NC and SC and FL? Puhleez. Drivers would much rather punch their "teammates" than to give a dollar toward charity.

NASCAR is not a sport. It involves a foot on the brake and the accelerator. I do that every day going to work, but I'm not considering myself a professional athlete.

It's really hard to believe that the south isn't racist or ignorant anymore with people like you posting on here. You have the Confederate flag on your pick-up truck, don't you?

Actually Penguin...here as a NASCAR fan myself I disagree a little...while NASCAR really has nothing to do with Autism, other than Jamie McMurray's Charity...the drivers all have Charity Foundations that they have created and Donate a lot of money too, very rarely have I ever heard of another sports group donate to or create charities. Nor do I think Basketball or Football players are any more of an athlete the drivers, other then they are extremely greedy and sure as hell do not deserve the millions they are paid and they too have been known to act like children and punch each other. Do you know that many retired football players become part of the pit crews in NASCAR and will tell you themselves that the sport is far more extreme than any football or basketball game..just sayin!

the drivers all have Charity Foundations that they have created and Donate a lot of money too

While I don't disagree with you there (a lot of athletes have their own foundations to combat whatever's usually closest to them...for some it's autism, for others it's gun violence, etc.), my disagreement with "concerned" was that they said there are no poor/starving children because of NASCAR, which is completely erroneous. The southern states are some of the poorest states in the nation. Not that that has to do with NASCAR, but to say NASCAR is helping feed the children is just plain wrong.

Nor do I think Basketball or Football players are any more of an athlete the drivers

It takes a lot more athletic ability to play in the NFL, NBA, NHL, or MLB. For horse racing, the jockey's not an athlete (although the horse is). Same for NASCAR -- the car is doing the work, not the driver. I've driven on the autobahn...it's thrilling, but I would not say I'm an athlete for doing so.

Do you know that many retired football players become part of the pit crews in NASCAR and will tell you themselves that the sport is far more extreme than any football or basketball game..just sayin

Again, it might be thrilling to be in a pit crew or ride a roller coaster, but I wouldn't consider myself an athlete for doing so. Extreme maybe. Athletic, no. If the person isn't doing the work, it's not a sport. An extreme activity? Sure. But that Tide logo and number on the front of the firesuit does not make him an athlete, nor does it make car racing a sport.

Its ok...I can agree to disagree...I may feel strongly because I cannot stand any other sport simply because of a lot of athlete's ignorance and some really dumb crap they do cause they think they are above the law, plus never in a million years is any one person worth millions of dollars a year...I do not care what they do! Whereas with NASCAR drivers they are paid based on where they finish in the race.

Like I said..I agree to disagree and really this is off topic! Peace to you Penguin!

Same to you...good luck with your son, and let's forget about all the ignorant people on this board who wouldn't know an autistic child if they ate lunch with them.

There are a lot of problems in Africa. Once the vaccine issue is handled then attention can be paid to the next one.

It is hard for anyone to pick themselves up by their bootstraps when they are stricken with polio.

Who must make the hard choices? Those with the power to carry them out.

In total hopeless misery.

Except that the Gates Foundation is ALSO assisting with clean and sustainable water systems. You know, you can fund two things at once! What's best -- vaccines alone, water alone, or both vaccines and water initiatives? The Gates Foundation is doing much more than just helping with vaccines. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Even if people were given clean water, medicine, food, education, electricity, internet access, and a few other good things they would still need an income.

There is not enough wealth being generated to provide any kind of lifestyle to seven billion people. As a matter of fact, there is not nearly enough.

The more healthy people there are, the more income there will be. The more disease-riddled people there are, the more income will have to be diverted to take care of those who cannot care for themselves. The fact that overpopulated nations like Japan, China, and India are prosperous economically shows that population is not the cause of their problems. When you have more people able to work and provide, and less people incapacitated via disease, you are healthier both personally and economically. I do love your blanket statements that with clean water, medicine, etc. there won't be jobs...who do you think runs the water industry, hospitals, farms, electric stations, schools, etc.? PEOPLE. Who would have jobs. And an income. More prosperity brings more jobs. More disease brings less jobs. I also love how you just assume that there's not enough wealth to provide for 7 billion people. As if there's a limited amount of wealth in the world! As if you got that statement from an economist! HA! You made it up, pure and simple. If you don't like that a charity can help other nations, you can move elsewhere. But you won't, 'cause you're a hypocrite.

Penguin,

There is certainly enough wealth in the world for seven billion people if it were all divided up equally. You made a good point there.

Out of our seven billion people, two-thirds of them are living in dire poverty.

I would love to have and believe your level of optimism about the human condition.

Of course charity can help other nations. It helps the other nations for exactly as long as the charity is there. When the charity leaves, their work crumbles.

Here is a concrete example. In our multi thousand death and multi trillion dollar crusade in Iraq against who knows what he have actually overpaid Halliburton and Bechtel enough money to build some hospitals with some sleek medical machines. If and when the Americans ever leave Iraq there is nobody left to run those machines. So they will just sit there getting covered with dust until they get dragged out to the dumpster. There are no Iraqis left in Iraq to run them or care about running them.

I wish I could share your optimism. I really do. The facts just get in the way.

Out of our seven billion people, two-thirds of them are living in dire poverty.

So wouldn't it be great to share our wealth and bring them up out of poverty? Isn't this what the Gates Foundation is working on here in this very article? Yet you want them to continue living in poverty. You can't have it both ways, dude.

If and when the Americans ever leave Iraq there is nobody left to run those machines

You think that Iraq doesn't have engineers and doctors? You are really ethnocentric and arrogant, aren't you? You've probably gone to see a doctor raised and educated in another country, and yet you still have this ignorant attitude? Amazing and absurd.

You are really arrogant and ignorant (a lethal combination). Go crawl back into your hole.

Penguin,

Iraq used to have engineers and doctors who could run medical machines. They left.

Iraq has been around for a very long time. If it is still an unlivable mess it is because of Iraqis.

The only American who still wants to be in Iraq is Barack Obama. The other 300 million Americans want to be out of there and done with that.

There is a truth that nobody want to be told. If you go by an airport and you see that big private jet the person who owns it is private and does not give interviews. If you go by a marina and see that big private boat or yacht the person who owns it is private and does not give interviews.

Nobody ever bought a jet like that or bought a boat like that by working or by playing fair.

If you asked the Government Accounting Office to simply tell you how many vessels or vehicles or properies of any type were owned by people who sucked off of the public tit they would shut down.

Google cannot tell you. The Wall Street Journal cannot tell you.

But I can tell you. The number of super-super luxury items that are owned by people who actually earned them is 1% The number of super-super luxury items owned by people who are connected is 99%.

There are 300,000,000 people in America. You cannot name 300 high earning celebrities would can afford a yacht and a jet.

All of the rest in behind the scenes.

Ignorant. Just plain ignorant. Ethnocentric. Arrogant. Liar. That's really all you can say about you.

Do you really live for this? I mean lying on a discussion board about topics that don't concern you? Is this really why you live your life? How sad is that?

I can tell you who owns those big boats at the marina and those big jets at the airport. Small businesspeople who use under the table labor and government contractors who are paid three times the going rate.

Who cares about who owns boats and jets. You don't own these items either, so does that make you poor and unable to work in society? WHO CARES what the contractors in Iraq are being paid. They get hazard pay. You try working in a combat zone and think you don't deserve more money than a standard engineer. Your life is sad...really sad.

It is easier to make money off of poor people than rich people and it is easier to make money off of the government than anyone else.

If studying up on world issues instead of worry about if the Chicago Bulls can win the NBA title makes me sad, then I guess I am sad, by your definition.

I do not feel sad.

So it's easy to make money from those who don't have it? HUH? You're really confused. I suggest you bow out now before you embarrass yourself further.

Paging Mulder and Sculley...

Giving people medicine, a steady food supply, and clean water is not going to help keep the population at a sustainable level. Those people will simply have even more kids and more of their kids will live and everyone will live longer. The population will simply explode from the current seven billion to who knows how many billion?

That dogooder stuff is trickier than it seems on the surface.

Giving people medicine, a steady food supply, and clean water is not going to help keep the population at a sustainable level. Those people will simply have even more kids and more of their kids will live and everyone will live longer.

Do you not comprehend the fact that these concepts yield more healthy adults, allowing for the economy to grow and less money wasted on caring for sick adults and all those children? What do you think got our country on the right track 100-200 years ago? THE SAME CONCEPTS. Clean water, steady food, and medicine. Giving the struggling countries these things (instead of just cash) allows them to get a foothold in the global economy.

On the population front, more healthy kids means less kids needing to be born because of death and disease (i.e. you don't need to "replace" those you lost to disease). And who cares if the population increases? Africa has a billion people, less than China or India, with a far greater landmass to accommodate them. They are not overcrowded.

Peng,

You can see what is happening in Haiti right now. Six million people without enough of an economy to support one million people.

And there is so much poverty in Haiti that there is slavery. Not kind of slavery, not sort of slavery, but actual total ownership slavery. And that is not the worst of it. Some of the owners are relatives.

Do they really need more healthy adults, healthy children, pregnant women in Haiti? Is six million not nearly enough? Or do you consider total abject poverty to be just a temporary nuisance that will just go away someday?

The single biggest problem in the world today is what you call "the population front". Every other problem and issue and concern all combined do not even come close to "the population front".

You seem to think that the world is a great big zoo with friendly handlers and all of the best practices in place along with an endless supply of everything that makes for a good zoo. Ample food, ample water, ample space that always expands as if by magic.

I think the world is the overcrowded Attica Prison riot with some of the inmates wanting to kill somebody and a lot of them wanting to just get out of there for anywhere else on Earth.

Do I care about the world population clock on the internet and when it ticks over to the next round number? Not in the least.

I do care about the quality of life and the amount of misery and the presence of hope of the people who are already on the clock.

Go back to Haiti for a moment. We are not talking about billions on a continent. We are talking about six million on half an island. What is their quality of life? What is their measure of misery? What is their reasonable hope for the future? Do you honestly believe that the best thing for Haiti is simply to have more children?

Six million people without enough of an economy to support one million people

Actually I was just on the island two and a half weeks ago when Obama made the bin Laden speech. You know they had an earthquake there, right? And that's why they're still in shambles? Maybe you can go down there and tell them why they're in such terrible shape.

The single biggest problem in the world today is what you call "the population front". Every other problem and issue and concern all combined do not even come close to "the population front".

No, sanitation and disease are the biggest issue in these countries. Every report from Haiti, etc. focuses on the lack of clean water, food, and the spread of food- and water-borne disease. They have to drink and eat contaminated water and food, and you don't think that's a problem? You've got issues. My state is more crowded than Haiti (1,185 people per square mile in NJ vs. 938 people per square mile in Haiti). And it's smaller than Haiti is. It actually has more people (8 million) crammed into a smaller location than Haiti. So don't tell me it's overpopulated. Because it's clearly not.

Nice try though. You get further with facts, though.

Wow, you managed to insult Obama in a thread completely unrelated. Congratulations.

Please provide a link to a peer-reviewed scientific study showing the link to autism, if you say it exists. This has been debunked over and over again...but you think it's still a conspiracy, right? Conspiracy to do what, exactly? Make our kids autistic? REALLY?

I thought of a way to keep the birthrate under control that does not violate any ethics and does not cause more boys to be born than girls. I just do not see how to fund it. All you have to do is pay women of childbearing age not to be pregnant on a month to month basis. If the test strip does not turn colors they get 20USD in local currency or a big box of food and cooking oil. That way the aid money is actually spent wisely and nobody has their reproductive rights altered in any way.

Of course that would not work either because there would just be gangs of thugs outside the aid station robbing the women as they left.

Hmmm...back to the drawing board.

Does it make you feel good inside to post such drivel? I wonder about your state of mind. Karma's gonna come for you real hard.

Karma has already tried to come for me and I am still here. The next time karma had better pack a lunch and bring some friends.

tom,

Please provide some peer reviewed research that backs up your claim that kids "cannot survive vaccination overload".

Try this, Dr.Russell Blaylock link

aluminum as an adjuvant in vaccine.

Dr. Blaylock is no johnny come lately!

Tom there are over 60 years of safety data concerning using aluminum compounds as adjuvants in vaccines. When you do a pubmed or google scholar search for "aluminum in vaccines" you see many results from numerous authors, none of which point to anything negative. In contrast, when you pubmed or google scholar search "R. Blaylock" all that comes up are anti-vaccine articles that sound like conspiracy theories. It's quite easy to get your work published in no-name journals, and it looks like he's the only one out there spouting this crap-ola. So maybe this guy has duped some of you out there, but not the scientific community as a whole.

Why don't you look up his credentials and maybe you will understand his long years of research. The problem is your statement about authors ,you need to look at latest research from universities.

No amount of credentials overturns the vast scientific evidence that vaccines are safe and do not cause autism, etc.

Secondly, a theory about "vaccination overload" cannot be proven, only disproven. You can publish as many theories as you want, but the evidence shows that kids are not being "overloaded" with vaccines. If you think about it, a young child receives approx. 30 or so vaccines over the course of his/her childhood. He/she certainly runs into MANY more infectious agents in the environment over this timespan, so it's not as if the immune system is being overloaded by a few shots.

Finally, when hundreds agree that vaccines don't cause autism and there are only a few detractors, you have to wonder -- are ALL of these people crazy or "insiders", or are the few lone wolves in sheep's clothing that are the crazy ones? i.e. you get more publicity and conspiracy theorist followers when you make an outrageous claim not supported by facts than you do when you just agree with scientific evidence.

Latest research at universities? They all confirm no link to overloading or autism from vaccines. Perhaps YOU are the one that needs to branch out to see what OBJECTIVE evidence exists for (and against) your theory. Much like those under Hitler...if you're lied to over and over again, you start to believe that the lies are the truth.

time to drink the koolaid,but no cornsyrup.

Wasn't it Rev. Jones that led a bunch of people to believe that the outside world was full of conspirators and hypocrites, only to have everyone drink the koolaid and find out the message was based on lies? Sounds like you're the one drinking the koolaid, man...Oh, Yeah!

Big pharma gives kids the autism and then they sell Ritalin to the parents for the next thirty years.

Everybody knows that the autism rate was not 1% until big pharma got into the mix.

Concerned, you're way outta your league. The history of autism is well-documented, and there is no correlation to big pharma.

By the way, did you know there was no drug for autism? You may be confusing ASD (autism spectrum disorder) with ADD (attention deficit disorder), for which Ritalin is sometimes prescribed. You have shown your complete ignorance on the subject. I suggest you stop.

A lot of these birth defects are not really birth defects as much as a result of how much the mother drank and what kind of drugs she did when she was pregnant. Either illegal drugs or big pharma drugs such as Thalidomide.

A lot of these birth defects are not really birth defects as much as a result of how much the mother drank and what kind of drugs she did when she was pregnant

More ignorance. Those myths were debunked DECADES ago. My in-laws didn't drink or do drugs, especially since they had an toddler (my wife) around when they had her autistic brother. Again, it has been proven to be linked to DNA anomalies...but keep thinking that ADD is the same as ASD and that it's caused by drinking/drugs...it's getting you far. As for drinking, fetal alcohol syndrome has clear markers, both physically and mentally, and would NEVER be confused by doctors as ADD or autism. NEVER. Thalidomide? What, are we in the 50s and 60s now?

Sorry Concerned...I call BS on that argument.... not all birth defects are due to a mother supposed drug use....genetics happens to come from both parents... my sons father was recently diagnosed with Bipolar/Schizophrenia due to a court ordered commitment to a mental hospital, I will also point out that my son has never been around his father because when we together he was self medicating and I left him when my son was 7 weeks old, so there was no behavioral example for him to cling too. We as people do not have control over what happens when genes mix to make a baby other than to be aware and educated!

Add to it that the genes our children have come from the combination of the mother and father (making new traits that may or may not be similar to one or both of the parents) and they ALSO come from mutations, additions, deletions, or repetitions in DNA code that are inserted during DNA transcription and cell division. So the children may have inherited traits and mutated traits, which can produce "errors in code" which are then expressed as autism, etc. So to blame the parents outright when it could be simple DNA transcription errors that are by no means the "fault" of the parents is just ludicrous.

An education is a good thing. You might want to look to getting one. Because right now your ignorance is astounding when it comes to science.

I agree Penguin...I do not blame anybody nor do I feel fault, that is not saying there are not days when I think "I just can't do this anymore!"... I just hope it is something they will someday be able to isolate and detect via amnio or other tests so that parents can be prepared vs. shocked!

We just gave her parents some respite and took her 27-year old autistic brother-in-law for the weekend. It's amazing to try to enter their world and see the thought processes behind some of their thinking (like with him, why he refuses to eat at McDonald's, etc.).

I do hope we find some tests that can detect this either in the womb or in infancy so we can stop the ludicrous vaccine debate and start working on the real solution. My fear is that since autism is likely linked to many different DNA code errors relating to neurological development that there won't be anything we can do except intervene earlier in life. But all children are blessings, whether they're autistic or "normal". I know that we will give our little girl the best life she can have when she's born, no matter if she's "normal" or not. If anyone can handle a diagnosis of autism, it's my wife who has lived for 27 years with her only sibling being autistic. Good luck to you!

Amen...amusing (and quite arrogant) that someone thinks that 9% unemployment and people not being able to afford their ridiculous mortgages is akin to starvation and lack of clean water elsewhere in the world. Such an ethnocentric attitude. Everyone complains about bailouts...until they want the money too. So they want the Gates Foundation to help them out with their mortgages instead of helping wipe disease off the planet. Hilarious. But also quite sad.

I Knew it was only a matter of time before the addicts to Bill Gates and his eugenics policy would come out as usual to defend their pseudoscience fix. Can you feel the rush through your veins as the Emperor did Luke?

Just another crock of crap. I am talking about the concoctions used for these vaccines peddlers/pushers.

So you believe the lies on the Internet over scientific studies proving vaccines are safe and efficacious. Suit yourself. But when you get sick, don't come crawling into our hospitals. If you decide that preventative medicine isn't for you, then follow through and resist medical care when you get sick. But you won't. Only when you get sick will you come crawling in for your medication, becoming a hypocrite in the process.

Concoctions? Eugenics? Do you seriously believe that millions are dying because of vaccines? C'mon man, get real. Your ignorance is really showing.

Let's see, I believe that lies from pseudoscience pollutes biology.....you know the study of life, not MANipulation of it.

Vaccines are safe IF you leave out all the crap they put in with the vaccines that make the push for vaccines more dangerous then if a person was to come in contact with natural threat. I will take my chances with life over the toxic chemicals in vaccines or the push to conform to them.

Getting sick or by being affected because of vaccines is different then a broken leg or needing an operation. Preventive health by avoiding toxic vaccinations is easier by not being herded into a false sense of security that is not there.

Yes, I believe vaccines do kill and or adversely negatively affect millions of people.

If being wise means ignorant to you, I thank God I do not think like you.

Vaccines are safe IF you leave out all the crap they put in with the vaccines that make the push for vaccines more dangerous then if a person was to come in contact with natural threat.

It's hilarious that your mind's been warped by people with an agenda to push. So it's much better to catch polio than to have the disease. Would you feel the same if there was an AIDS vaccination? It must be better to die of measles than to have "redness at injection site", right? Get over yourself.

As for the "toxic chemicals", the chemicals are toxic only at high doses. You have much more mercury in a can of tuna than you do in all the vaccines you get put together. And you ingest chemically-treated food all the time. Those IV's in the hospital? Chemicals. Those pills and vitamins you ingest? Chemicals.

Yes, I believe vaccines do kill and or adversely negatively affect millions of people.

Then you obviously don't have a grip on reality. In the U.S. there were 4 million births in 2009. So you're saying millions of these kids died or had adverse events associated with their vaccines? You are seriously deluded.

Preventive health by avoiding toxic vaccinations is easier by not being herded into a false sense of security that is not there.

So all those people who died of polio, measles, smallpox, hepatitis, TB...they all were phony? I love how you can claim that avoiding vaccines is healthier than not getting sick in the first place. Don't we have the longest lifespan ever in our history? You don't think that has anything to do with vaccines by eliminating diseases that would've killed some of us in infancy or childhood? You are ridiculous. Straight outta the fiction / conspiracy section of the local library.

Vaccines are safe IF you leave out all the crap they put in with the vaccines

Oh, you mean the stuff they use to make them safe, stable, and able to resist bacterial contamination. Oh, that stuff! Hey, if you want to inject the pure virus with a risk that you could be infecting yourself with other contaminants, go ahead. I'd like mine contamination-free, thanks!

If being wise means ignorant to you, I thank God I do not think like you.

If being like you means believing all that you read on conspiratorial websites, by all means, thank God I do not think like you. You're nothing but a sheep who follows Internet rumors rather than does their own research. Baaaaaaaa!

Danger Will Robinson Danger Danger.

1. Just a spoon-full of sugar(Pseudoscience propaganda) helps the medicine go down. Who says? Those who have been indoctrinated in the industry to cause more problems then they solve.

2. Websters Dictionary............clarifies definitions. Vaccine addicts dictionary, like climate gate data..........man made and collaboration of snobbish goals/opinions of what life should mean by the one speaking, not reality.

3. No amount of Lovie or Thurston perspective means Jack if one does not climb a mountain just to be led off a cliff.

4. And to think you are still a child because you like to sit and spin to make yourself dizzy because someone does not want to play Marco Polo.

5. Run with the ostriches, it is easier to see the weasels.

Just a spoon-full of sugar(Pseudoscience propaganda) helps the medicine go down.

Yeah, Kerry...why base your opinions on facts and figures and instead base them on lies? Whatever you want to think, buddy. If you think the chemicals are killing your brain, etc...you're insane, but you're free to think that way. But sorry that we have public health to look after in this country, so that we don't end up like other countries with disease-ridden populations and shorter lifespans. If you like those countries' policies so much, why do you live in ours?

Websters Dictionary............clarifies definitions. Vaccine addicts dictionary, like climate gate data..........man made and collaboration of snobbish goals/opinions of what life should mean by the one speaking, not reality.

What? Seriously, what? Your run-on nonsensical statements show how out-of-touch you are with reality. Earth to Kerry? Not there, huh?

No amount of Lovie or Thurston perspective means Jack if one does not climb a mountain just to be led off a cliff.

Again, what? If you want to live on Gilligan's Island (i.e. fantasy land), go ahead. You seem to be doing a remarkable job. But it's no coincidence that we as Americans, even with all our obese, lazy, and out-of-work people, have one of the highest life expectancies. Reason: Preventative medicine. Vaccines prevent us from dying early due to diseases we figured out decades ago. Hey, if you want to live in the middle ages, go ahead, die of tetanus, etc. Good luck to you. Funny that you sit here with all of your vaccinations as a child, perfectly normal (well, you think so at least), free from disease, and you're telling others NOT to get those same vaccinations that kept you healthy. Kind of ironic, no? Hypocritical?

And to think you are still a child because you like to sit and spin to make yourself dizzy because someone does not want to play Marco Polo....Run with the ostriches, it is easier to see the weasels.

Yikes, you have a lot of unnecessary (and illogical) phrases. Maybe you should get your head out of the conspiratorial sand and look at the evidence. We have long lifespans and don't get ill from polio, etc. in the age of vaccines for these diseases. Coincidence? NOPE. Get your head outta the sand, dude.

Simple Simon met a pie-man while building castles in the sky. When a successful resister is not affected by a polluted storm cloud the best thing to do is fly.

Breathe deep the gathering gloom.......

So you're resorting to nonsense instead of objective evidence. I'm sure you must be proud of yourself.

As for me, I stick with the facts. I'm sorry you see things through conspiratorial lenses. Wishing for a conspiracy does not make it true. I'm glad you've devoted all your time to nonsensical thoughts and phrases. Gosh, your parents must be proud of you!

Yeah, I will tell you what you can stick with. Hey numb nuts........there are messages is the words that I wrote. Let's see if you can find peer review meanings or I will just wait for a "THAT DOES NOT COMPUTE" blank stare on your face.

Rather than threaten me, how about you show some evidence that your statements are true?

...crickets...

Calling me names won't make your threats or lies true. Any evidence to back up your ludicrous statements? Didn't think so.

We know you are a little touched, but to claim I threatened you......must be the paranoia induced by a vaccine side effect. But we will wait for the peer review study to come out on that.

Yeah, I will tell you what you can stick with. Hey numb nuts...

Not a threat? No name-calling? Oh, I must be mistaken. I can actually read. Perhaps you can't.

If you've got no evidence, please stop posting. You're ranting on subjects that are far above your head. Actual evidence proves your thoughts to be false. Unless you've got this little thing called evidence to back up your ideas, everyone considers you to be a loon. You probably believe we never landed on the moon, OJ was innocent, and 9/11 was an inside job, right? Yikes.

The "STICK" is all the vaccines you love/crave. You must be suffering from one bad inferiority complex. How is that a threat to a simple mind as yours? Ooops, sorry, I forgot you are mentally week so you fear what you can not control.

As stated previously, the Gates Foundation is also investing in clean water technology. You know, a foundation with billions of dollars can do two things at once (both water and vaccinations)!

Your information on the oral polio vaccine is about 50-60 years past date. New vaccines are better and safer than those they had in the 1950s.

What the Supreme Court said was that there was already a vaccine court with knowledgeable special masters, and therefore they would not take up vaccine injuries in the Supreme Court. Please stop lying about "unavoidably unsafe". No S.C. ruling ever said that. Perhaps the plaintiff said that, but the S.C. did not. Again, there's already a court for this whose justices are vaccine experts...therefore the S.C. is not going to take the case. No protection of manufacturers or conspiracy involved.

You're really stretching here. The "vaccine"? Only one? He's promoting a vaccine program, not a eugenics initiative. Promoting population control? Are you reading this off of a conspiracy website or something? Gates is A) not for making the world infertile, and B) not the only voice in the Gates Foundation...he's the founding member, but not the sole leader. The Gates Foundation is a charitable / philanthropical organization. Again, get OBJECTIVE information, not conspiracy theories. Finally, every vaccine has side effects. But something that happens in 0.000001% of all patients getting vaccines will have no effect on worldwide population control. Stop spreading lies and get objective information.

Every medicine, whether vaccine (preventative) or reactive, is going to have side effects. "Green" vaccines are a great concept, but no one truly knows what that means (it's like "world peace"). Wouldn't it be great if no reactions to anything existed? Sure. Will it happen? No.

When making these statements, please consider the alternative: Children get preventable diseases, some dying, some having horrible defects (brain injuries, sterility, etc.). This would happen much more often without vaccines than with them. Are vaccines 100% safe? No. But are they 99.9999% safe. Yes. You risk more by avoiding them than by taking them. Any parent who's lost a child because they were bullied into avoiding vaccination schedules and the child got sick and died can tell you the risk is worth it. I'd rather have a child with seizures than one in the grave because of fear-mongering.

A lot said from someone just backing their point of view.

I thank God yours is not doctrine. At least my viewpoint does not make me a pin cushion.

News for your happy feet penguin.....we all die. I choose to live a natural life not a man made one.

we all die. I choose to live a natural life not a man made one.

Then you'll have no issues with avoiding hospitals and doctors when you get sick and die.

I find it funny (and ironic) that you consider yourself "natural" when you had all those vaccinations when you were a child. You have no problem with your history of injections, but want to deny others from having the same privileges and advantages you had growing up. Hysterical (and quite hypocritical)!

I thank God you are not making public policy strategies. Your results would be catastrophic. It's not doctrine, Kerry, it's science. Your "the sun revolves around the earth" ideas have been thoroughly debunked. It's amazing that you can't even bring yourself to read the evidence, for fear of proving yourself wrong. You have no problem injecting fear into other people about the "evils" of vaccines, yet you absolutely fear reading scientific evidence proving your viewpoint to be incorrect. I find that hilarious. Fearful AND fear-monger. An amazingly rare breed, you are!

Once again you just keep proving that what you think/pray is right is actually false. There was only "1" vaccine I had when I was a child.

I had the measles, mumps and chicken pox growing up and am glad I was NOT vaccinated for those. Oh, and by the way the only vaccine I received as a child put me in a coma for 3 days and nearly killed me. One of my Daughters was also almost killed by a multi-vaccination, now a life long sufferer.(Not by my desire she got the vaccines) So yes I know the dangers of vaccines. You can not prove to me otherwise.

So I would say that vaccine theory about being better for you is 100% BS. Like I said, give me nature any day I survived without any problem.

And once again for your understanding, not wanting vaccination is not the same as getting a broken leg or needing surgery. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Please pull that vinyl plug from your head so a little escaping air can deflate that ego.

There was only "1" vaccine I had when I was a child.

Oh really? I guess you grew up in the 1800s then. Congratulations on being the oldest person on the planet. You may not remember your vaccinations, but there was more than just one vaccine. Stop the lies.

I had the measles, mumps and chicken pox growing up and am glad I was NOT vaccinated for those.

Sure you did. And I had diptheria, small pox, and TB.

Oh, and by the way the only vaccine I received as a child put me in a coma for 3 days and nearly killed me. One of my Daughters was also almost killed by a multi-vaccination, now a life long sufferer.(Not by my desire she got the vaccines) So yes I know the dangers of vaccines. You can not prove to me otherwise.

Now appearing in the fiction section of the local bookstore...

So you're basing your entire theory of vaccines on 2 people. WOW. Using anecdotal evidence to make public policy. Bravo.

Perhaps it's just your DNA that's the problem (I'm serious here). You may have certain sections of DNA that do not work well with vaccines. Most of us do not. You cannot base public policy on two connected examples. I'm sorry about your experiences, if they existed. But do you really want to subject everyone to measles, mumps, polio, TB, hepatitis, etc. all because you got sick?

There were 3/4 million people sickened by measles in 1958. How many in this day and age would be afflicted if no one was vaccinated now, especially in light of the worldwide travel we employ now?

And once again for your understanding, not wanting vaccination is not the same as getting a broken leg or needing surgery.

You're right. Far few people are hurt by vaccinations than by these things. Vaccinations prevent people from ever being affected by these invaders, rather than to fix them after-the-fact. It's not the same -- IT'S BETTER.

So I would say that vaccine theory about being better for you is 100% BS. Like I said, give me nature any day I survived without any problem.

You survived, congrats. But you were ill so many times in your life, according to your own words. Do you want each kid to grow up like that? I don't. I don't want my unborn daughter to have to suffer through all that just to "survive". We've invented all of these preventative medicines and you want to just "survive". How about live a full life? How about not have yourself or your friends DIE from disease. No, you survived, so everyone would survive, right? WRONG.

Congrats on living. You had access to medicine, doctors, clean water, sanitation, and everything that these people in the article DO NOT HAVE. I.E. THEY DIE EVERY DAY from these diseases that you survived, because they do not have proper care. Do you not understand that the other people on this earth do not have the healthcare system we have in the U.S.? Ethnocentric attitudes are equivalent to being ignorant in the global environment.

You want to just "survive"? Fine. Be my guest. But don't deny others access to preventative medicine just because of your idiocy. Besides, it's not hurting you, so why do you care? You're all about survival of you. What does the Gates Foundation funding vaccinations for the rest of the world matter to you?

You just proved my point. The truth about vaccines is out there but the truth gets ignored or acts like it is not what the "DATA" says so it is not true. Just like climategate there should be a vaccine/datagate.

Keep piling on the datacrap your dam is building.

The truth about vaccines is out there but the truth gets ignored or acts like it is not what the "DATA" says so it is not true.

So YOU know the truth but researchers don't. I get it. It's that secret truth that no one but you knows, right? So for the hundreds of millions of vaccinated citizens in this country, there's a cover up? Is that what you're saying? So you don't believe in data, and you believe in loony conspiracy theories? You just proved my point: You're not living in reality.

I do not live in YOUR MANufactured world. But thank you for showing I do not beat the same drum you do.

You live in Fantasyland where vaccines and drugs that actually help people are evil. I live in reality. I'm sorry YOUR MANufactured fantasy utopia doesn't exist. Sorry to burst your bubble.

You act as if without vaccines we'd live in a fantasy world where no one would get hurt. Not the case. Any parent who has lost a child to preventable disease would tell you they'd rather have a child with seizures than one in the grave. Nothing is risk-free. But you have to weigh the alternatives. Is my child going to be the one in a million that has a severe reaction to a vaccine or is my child going to go through life risking deadly diseases without immunity every day of their life? Again, would you rather have a disabled child or a dead one?

And if you know people who were severely affected/harmed by vaccines, no amount of BS touted for vaccines means jack.

Follow the pushers or choose life the way you see fit. I choose life. No propaganda or peer review opinion needed.

So the few that were severely affected by vaccines should be saved for the thousands or millions that would be severely affected by the actual diseases? SERIOUSLY? More people would be killed, yet you say: "I choose life". Do you not understand that without vaccines more people would actually die?

Follow the pushers or choose life the way you see fit. I choose life. No propaganda or peer review opinion needed.

And that's why you're not an expert on the subject. More people would die in your scenario. I cannot believe you're so blinded by the VERY FEW who have problems with vaccines (most of which are "redness at the injection site" -- God forbid a shot hurts a bit) that you cannot consider the real alternative. The alternative is not zero deaths. The alternative is situations in which disease outbreaks are the norm and thousands or millions die. You saw how quickly SARS and H1N1 spread throughout the world. And those were weak outbreaks that only affected certain groups (elderly, young, pregnant). Think about how quickly a real communicable disease like whooping cough, etc. would pass through our country if it were allowed to happen.

Oh, btw, with whooping cough, a study comparing unvaccinated to vaccinated people was performed (and reported on MSNBC). Those who didn't get the vaccine were 23 TIMES MORE LIKELY to get ill than those that got vaccinated. So without the vaccine, you're more vulnerable out in the world. Congrats, your approach just made more people die. And that's why you're not a public policy expert.

Follow the conspiracy sheep as you see fit. Reading skewed blogs gets you nowhere in life but paranoid. Consider the REAL alternatives of vaccination: More unnecessary deaths. And you'd have the blood of those people on YOUR hands.

Penguin...I so agree with you...and my son has a mild form of autism...I have done tons of research...I would rather have my son how he is then dead from some easily preventable disease!

By the way...I am so sorry for the loss of your child!!

Judy, I have a child (our first) on the way, but no losses in my family. I apologize if I wrote something that could have been construed that way.

As for your child -- I do sympathize with you. My wife's brother is a 27-year old autistic "adult". He was mainstreamed as the first autistic child in his district, and graduated with a high school diploma. He now works in a sheltered workshop, but will likely always live at home (until he moves in with us should his parents die).

I am a bit worried about the fact that autism appears to be genetically based (whether either partially inherited or via genetic mutations, etc. that occur during development). As her family has a history of ASD, with the most severe case being her brother who is truly autistic, it does concern me that one of our children in the future might be autistic. But then I look at how her family has dealt with her brother, and I see a delightful family with no negative aspects. So I know we can deal with it should it occur.

As for Kerry...it's amazing how many ignorant people there are just in this country alone, and how they'd rather have millions dead worldwide than have vaccinations protecting us from preventable diseases. They think that just because we no longer see these diseases in our country that A) they don't exist elsewhere in the world and B) we must have "cured" them and they'll never come back. Far from it. As we see in small areas where fear of vaccinations is preventing children from getting innoculated, measles, mumps, and whooping cough are creating outbreaks. They're not gone, we just don't get sick from them as much and they're contained if we're vaccinated.

It's amazing how many people have forgotten (or never been taught) how devastating these diseases were in the past, and want to return to what in this day and age would be considered "the middle ages" with regard to public health. As you said, you'd rather have an autistic child than have him 6 feet under. I whole heartedly agree. I'd rather have 10 of my wife's brother than have her sibling in the grave.

A lot of propaganda and mis-information in that book there flightless bird.(There is another story for you)

There have been more outbreaks due to vaccines then those they claim to prevent. I suggest DR. Sherry Tenpenny, she might just cause you to lower that nose from the elevation you have put yourself at.

So you claim that a doctor's slanted anti-vaccine viewpoint proves your theory? Yikes. You need more help than I ever realized. Go follow that one lonely doctor, Kerrysheep. Baaaa! Your "leader" is nothing more than a scam artist:

Dr. Sherry Tenpenny is an osteopath who has something to gain by distorting the facts about vaccines. She sells vitamins and supplements on her Vaccine Information web site, which gives her an incentive to distort the truth and spread misinformation

So you are getting your information from a sales pitch for an alternate "treatment". How dumb do you look right now? Here's a statement directly from her website:

While we strive to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the website or the information, products, services, or graphics contained on the website for any purpose. Any reliance placed on such information is therefore strictly at your own risk

So she lies on the website then you believe it, and she says she's not to blame for any incorrect or skewed data. I love how you brought her to my attention. She's a quack, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker! Look up "Sherry Tenpenny Quack" and you'll find out the real story. PHONY! Nice try though, but you're getting your information from a known liar. How dumb are you?

Hey, no fly bird

If she is a quack why is she still a Doctor? If she is as you would hope, she would not be a Doctor. So not even your peer review can remove her credentials or the truth she speaks.

Keep beaking, wanting to be fed a fish or squawking because there are those who know more then you. Funny how I did not know penguins like to eat crow.

Do you even know what she's a doctor of? She could have just gotten her PhD and that's it...no practice required to get a doctorate. Just school.

So not even your peer review can remove her credentials or the truth she speaks.

So all the doctors who are taking the opposite viewpoint are liars? So a million doctors are wrong and she speaks the "truth"? Yikes. You'll believe anything, won't you, as long as it comes from a "doctor". My brother's a lawyer (Juris doctorate)...will you believe medical advice from him?

Kerry, you're a sheep...you believe what you're told to believe by a doctor who's a salesperson, not based on science, but based on a sales pitch for her products. Forget penguins...you're a gull...as in GULLIBLE. Hook, line, and sinker.

Vaccines.... The Risk, The Benifits, The Choices. How about Vaccines.. What the CDC Documents and Science Reveal.

These are just 2 of the DVD's Dr. Sherry Tenpenny has out and I have both of these.

Try watching these two videos and look at your last vomit post.....you will swallow what you write. I have been following Dr. Sherry for over 5 years. When you watch these videos get back with me.

These are just 2 of the DVD's Dr. Sherry Tenpenny has out and I have both of these.

Congrats. You sent money to a snake oil salesman. You bought her schtick hook, line, and sinker. Like PT Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute. Congrats on being that sucker!

You've been following a charlatain for 5 years, and you still can't see how idiotic she is. You are certainly showing yourself to be quite the fool! I can't believe you paid her money! LMAO! Can you send me money too? I'll say whatever you want to hear if you send money to my address.

So sad that people buy into the garbage that some spew!

This is a good one! So Bill is promoting buying vaccines so he can make more money to give away since he plans on giving his fortune away before he dies. Thanks for the laugh! Why does it matter if he's a college drop out?

If that is the result of being a college drop out then everybody should sign up for a college just so they can drop out. We would all be bazillionaires!