Brutality against an animal is indicator of possible domestic violence, experts say
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comPet abuse registry may also protect children
Seeded on Thu May 19, 2011 1:13 PM EDT (msnbc.com)
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I gotta say, having an animal abuse list similar to a sex offenders list could be helpful to the communities suffering dog fighting and routine animal slaughter or abuse. It'll be interesting to see how to roll of this tool affects and helps others.
So does this mean that all of the illegals and blacks that participate in weekend cock fights and dog fights are all potential domestic and sexual violence suspects? As much as I hate animal abuse, this article has a smell about it. That seems like a long reach to say that someone who kicks their dog, is likely to kick their wife and kids too. Especially out on farms and rural life, where animal cohabitation is seen differently than what suburban families might think of pet ownership. Personally, I'd rather see pet ownership licensed and taxed, then maybe we'd see far fewer abuse cases against animals, and maybe make a little tax revenue on it. I'm tired of my illegal neighbors and their 6 pit bulls, who only go out when there's a dog fight to be had on a weekend.
No Cygnus, it is not a stretch at all. Most (if not all) serial killers were known to abuse animals at an early age, it's a huge red-flag/warning sign. Many murderers and other violent offenders also claim to have "practiced" on animals first.
Agreed. It's not a stretch at all to make a connection between animal abuse and abuse to humans. The connection is a well-documented fact.Animal abuse is a symptom that the person is devoid of feeling empathy for other living beings thus capable of abusing human beings, as well.
However if the abuser sticks to "only" abusing animals I would definitely want their name on a registry because I sure as hell don't want them living anywhere near me.
Communities which refuse to use an animal abuser registry would also be raising a huge red flag to people considering moving or vacationing there by sending the message that this a community where animal abuse is not taken seriously.
It is no stretch. In known cases, well over 80% of abusers also abuse animals; sometimes child or spousal abuse is ultimately discovered or confirmed partly or completely because of animal abuse.
Besides, wouldn't you want to know if your neighbor has been in trouble for animal abuse, animal cruelty, or animal fighting? I would.
I'd bet that a large percentage of same users were also alcohol drinkers. Should we outlaw that too, and create a registry of drinkers, because they MIGHT be future serial killers?
Cygnus
You have a very poor understanding about serial killers, alcohol, and abuse. Your comments are ignorant.
Get yourself an education by speaking to child services, and officers who deal with domestics, and see what they say about animal abuse and the stuff they see happen to children and women.
My neighbor's teenage son used to torture his little dog when his parents were away. When I would hear the dog screaming, I would go over and intervene. "It's my dog and I can do what I want to it," he would say.
He was an intelligent kid, went to college and then medical school. Now he's a doctor of internal medicine. Needless to say, I do not go to him for medical care.
Creepy isn't it.
Is it possible that a registry like this would have kept him out of med school?
I've heard that many doctors tend to have a sadistic streak. I suppose you'd almost have to in some ways to do what they do.
Any kind of criminal record can keep you out of medical school. Though since he was a minor when it happened he wouldn't go on the registry, so maybe not.
And should it have kept him out of medical school? How do you know he hasn't changed? You're basing your assumption that he'd be cruel now, too, only on the fact that there's a vague correlation between being a famous serial killer and abusing animals.
John wayne gacy didnt hurt animals.
umm hello!!!!
Endocrine2,
I am simply saying that 1) he used to torture his puppy, 2) I am the one who worked on getting him stopped and 3) I do not trust him to touch me since he and I had several run-ins over his sadistic treatment of the dog. Would he treat me differently as a patient? I don't know and I don't care to find out.
If he already delighted in torturing his puppy when he was a child it's highly doubtful that that trait disappeared as he grew older.
Not all, but a fair number of physicians do have a sadistic streak as do a fair number of nurses, dentists, and psychotherapists.
He should have been kept out of med school, the twisted little brat. He's probably in medicine for the gore and pain. And I would bet that he has some sick fantasies going on in his head. It's not normal to abuse animals...it indicates a lack of compassion and empathy. That is not a "vague correlation", it's thoroughly documented. Empathy and compassion are essential traits in normal, healthy human beings. Those that lack empathy are called psychopaths.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
While I fully understand the logic behind this idea, the last thing we need is one more list kept by the government. I personally think the sex offender registries are constitutionally suspect at best and will eventually be outlawed by the courts. We are slowly turning into a nation of "watchers" and spies. Generally, I agree that if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear. But, what's to keep us from ultimately creating lists of people who cuss or own guns or drive certain types of cars, or don't go to church every Sunday - or DO go to church every Sunday - etc.? It's a dangerous and slippery slope.
I agree completely. The list isn't exactly scientific. Its just based on some very vague correlations. Is a teenager who tortures animals liable to abuse their family? Yes. Someone who needs to hit their neighbor's loose dog with a rake because because the animal threatens them? Probably not (Although there are enough dog apologists in the world that this IS considered animal abuse).
It really isn't a vague correlation----Abuse is about control and if you kill the kitten or puppy (helpless creature that is LOVED) then you can pretty well convince a helpless child or spouse that you will kill them too.
FYI---"If you tell I will kill you Parents just like I did your puppy" is a threat often used by pedophiles and rapists too.
Miker and Endocrine2,
The "lists" our legislatures and city councils are funding are going to continue to grow.
In the '50's it was a list of communists or suspected communist sympathizers. That list was very destructive. I saw the fear that list and McCarthyism generated both at home and at high school.
The lists themselves are of little interest to me. I am more fascinated by what must be going on the the public mind to cause these kinds of things to come about.
To some extent, I think, people are felling afraid and no longer secure. Prosecution of abusers? Does the public think the abuser (animal abuser or human abuser) will serve his/her time and never abuse again, suddenly rehabilitated? No.
The public feels the same way about sex offenders and with good reason since they often re-offend (even when they are on a lovely list somewhere).
To my way of thinking, the lists are not the problem. They are a symptom of something more disturbing.
The link between animal abuse and, at best, abuse of humans, at worst, pychopathic behavior, is not vague. Abusing animals indicates a lack of compassion and empathy. Empathy is the hallmark of our ethics, knowing what is right and wrong based on our ability to relate to others. Someone who lacks empathy is called a psychopath. There's the link: lack of empathy.
Is Michael Vick on the list?
Kalispell, MT? Saw a high school football game up there once when deployed with the Army to fight forest fires (around 98?). There was one incredible trumpet player in one of those high school bands! That kid had some chops.
I agree. A good idea whose time is overdue.
I thought most counties/ cities already have these types of laws/ordinances in place but I can see how in rural areas that may not be the case. In my suburban area, there is a small annual license fee per pet and there are limits to how many dogs you may own. Trouble is, there is very little regulation and county resources devoted to this area and a person can get away anything unless a serious incident is reported. Let's hope Cygnus, for the sake of those poor dogs the barbaric dogfighting operations get shut down soon!
How horrid! Hopefully you reported the teenager to your local animal control and also informed his parents.
I feel this cause is too important not to endorse, therefore I support a national pet abuse registry 100%. As a former volunteer for the SPCA, I saw tragic cases that still haunt me. It has always astounded me the cruelty that humans care capable of. Pets have no one to protect them unless others care enough to get involved.
If someone is abusing an animal, you can call the police. It's a crime.
Emily, it is a crime as well it should be, but the problem is not the actual laws, it is getting them enforced, especially in smaller towns and rural areas. I live in a small town and one of the most horrific cases of animal neglect and cruelty we have ever seen was at the city holding pens. It was cleaned up, greatly improved, and is now maintained, but if it had not been brought to public attention it would have continued indefinitely.
In many areas, law enforcement just does not consider animal welfare a priority, and the few members of the voting public that care are not enough to change the system. Sheriff's deputies drive through my neighborhood daily, and for a long time my neighbors had a visibly starved and abused dog in the front yard; the deputies never did anything. There have even been cases where caring and otherwise law-abiding individuals have actually stolen abused animals and gotten them to out-of-state rescues or homes. If caught, they would be arrested, but the people abusing the animals are never penalized. We try, and we do everything within our power, but until we have people who care in positions of authority we are very restricted, and it is very sad when people have to resort to breaking laws and risking arrest to help an abused animal because legal channels fail or authorities fail (or refuse) to act.
Geesus, now pet abuse registry are you people insane?!? what next insect registry??
If a snake or a dog attacks me, will the owner goes to jail?? will the dog be put to sleep or will it be put on death row for years and get fed and water appeal after appeal.
Give me a freaking break people these are just animal, A DIME A DOZEN!!!
Some animal dont learn unless you give them pain, so trainers will have to register as animal abuser. this is waaay out of whack. I hope it doesnt pass, really.
next thing we going to have is marrying of pets before they concieve outside the homes.
the animals dont care what you do to them, they learn from their mistakes, unlike some of these human some animal are good.
you dont see them suing other animal if something goes wrong or bad.
gessus people, Use common sense. you animal lovers keep out of this. we know what your take on this, so by quiet!
"pets have no one to protect them", thats why we are ontop of the food chain!!!!
you people been watching to many movies really.
Animal its survival of the fittest, nothing less, if a cripple animal in the wild was in a pack, it would have been eaten by the others, not cared for or not sent to the hospital. Leave the animals alone. they dont need laws, since they cannot read them!
If they cant understand what happening to them, then they do not need laws.
My dogs, and cats, and bird are all happy, they get out of line they hear it from me, they know if i yell or raise my voice they get a whack, if they dont stop. they associate, thats all they do associate.
sad we have to retort to this, registry for animals, give me a break!
Sloppyjoes I truly hope you have no pets, spouse, or children---Apparently you have no use or respect for life----
Those who harm or don't care about the welfare of those who can't protect themselves are themselves lacking human feeling.
If you were abused as is often the case with people who express sentiments such as yours help is out there.
lexiwords,
"If you were abused..." Oh, give me a break. That is the oldest and weakest excuse in the book.
Blame it on someone else in order to diminish our adult responsibility.
I'm fat cause my mom made me clean my plate when I was a kid.
I'm a drunken wife beater cause my dad was.
Same idea, just as irresponsible, and to use an overused word, lame. In actuality, it is this kind of excuse the abuser uses to abuse his/her mom (who made them eat) or dad (who was an abusive drunk). That blaming of someone in the past is just more abuse.
sloppy, people like you are one of the reasons this registry is necessary.
boo hoo!!, cant grasp reality can you people.
You animal lovers are a joke.
truly one big fat joke.
Keep thinking that way. But when you die, your fate will be decided by the animals you have encountered throughout your life.
All of our actions have a price.
oh I shudder in my alligator skin boots.
Still a big Joke. You animal Lovers.
Sloppyjoes
You start out by saying” Give me a freaking break people these are just animal, A DIME A DOZEN!!!” Given the 3 exclamation pointsyou seem to be pretty emphatic that animals don’t mean anything. Then you end it by stating “My dogs, and cats, and bird are all happy, they get out of line they hear it from me, they know if i yell or raise my voice they get a whack, if they dont stop. they associate, thats all they do associate”.
No wonder why you are so against it. You would be the first person in your area on the registry. I feel so sorry for your pets. Please tell us that you have not re-produced. I'd hate to imagine a little sloppy running around abusing animals like you do.
Well done Suffolk County. Don't take any crap from any ACLU or Judicial group over this.
Veterinarians Only Recently Adopted Animal Welfare Principles
Isn't it interesting that only months ago did vets, who belong to American Veterinary Medical Assn., actually adopt animal welfare principles: "American Veterinary Medical Assn: Animal Welfare Principales," in Ethic Soup blog.
Also Ethic Soup has a good post on registering animal abusers:"We Need to Register Animal Abusers."
But until then they could still legally report abuse, it just came down to personal ethics and morals.
why not its money for them! Veternarians are money stealers!!
Robber people of their ignorance and well as their money.
Not mine; he loses money on us.
Since they want to start keeping a registration for everything now a days, how about a "Police Abuser, or Judge Abuser, or Prosecutor Abuser Registry" for all those in Government that think they are "Above the Law", and can act with impunity with the American People, and crap all over our Constitution?
I am getting a little tired of those "Precious Folks" in the State Legislatures that pass questionable constitutional laws, that have to be declared unconstitutional, or hearing of how Police Break laws to enforce laws, or Prosecutors that put Innocent folks in jail, knowing they were Innocent, but can do so to WIN, and if caught, can not be prosecuted themselves for it.
In America it is a FELONY for a member of the Government to deliberately deprive someone of their Constitutional Civil Rights. The above, certainly fits that category.
So if they want to keep a record or registry of all the so called "BAD PEOPLE" in America, then we need to start keeping a REGISTRY of GOVERNMENT ABUSERS, etc.
Another good idea. Go after it.
People will be put on this registry if CONVICTED of animal cruelty. We are not talking about a person being able to call and say 'my neighbor kicked my dog' and put them on the registry. How would this affect innocent people?
Animal cruelty is an excellent and highly accurate predictor/indicator of violence towards people.
If someone is convicted of a crime, the government has every right to put them on relevant registries... if you don't like it, don't break the law.
How about animal eater? What the heck is this all supposed to do anyway? Say someone's on the list somehow, how is that going to stop him from evolving into a serial killer? All you're doing is to make it easy to make a list of suspects after the crime happens, but nothing to prevent it. Now, unless you want to go into "Minority Report" model of running the country this should be entirely illegal as wasteful as it is. By the way, I'm all for animal rights, they all have the rights to be eaten.
I was abused as a kid, and when I'd talk about trying to get away, my abuser used my pets as a way to get to me, including threatening to have, and sometimes actually having them, euthanized.
It's part of why I never spoke up.
As an animal lover, I consider animal rights a basic (and obvious) positive in our society. But registry? Hmmph, political posturing is the bare truth. True abuse "Can" involve animals and graduate to people. All forms of abuse are about power and control, but this isn't a solution, just another "Scarlet Letter". There is a wide range of abuse of power: From Serial Killer, to the angry homeowner berating a plumber for the price he has to charge for repairing a toilet. We stop looking for solutions and label them bad, Tah Dah, problem resolved right.... Not in the least. How much is this county spending towards getting these Pet Offenders help? Lists like this have been around since we learned to carve words onto stone. Before WW II Germany was compiling lists of registered Jews. In the 50's America did it to suspected communists, then gays, don't forget the draft dodgers. Let's take a peak at the Sex Offender thing, despicable crimes, we read in horror, an innocent child murdered. Then the little story of two teens in a trist, and they are to be labeled as Sex Offenders. Hmmph again. So do we register only the "really bad" pet offenders? This is a line in the sand that will get crossed, until it is obliterated. Do we ban the postal worker who defended himself against a biting dog from ever seeing his children again? Pop quiz: is there a higher rate of recidivism (doing the same thing) in Pedophiles or murderous drunk drivers? Answer: the drunk drivers. Soon these "bad" lists will be everywhere. Only the utopians who aren't on the lists will be allowed to have: Power and Control. Ominous, and the very direction in which we are heading. From the beginning of time it has been acceptable to threaten those on "The List", how many of you have seen the "I hope he burns in **** for eternity"? Consider this: that person saying that needs as much help (and possibly more) than the person they are threatening. America land of the free, so long as you haven't been caught doing anything on a growing list of horrific crimes. The Sex Offender laws get tougher every year, to protect the people, typically a lot tougher just before elections. Some of the things done have been over the edge of constitutional, but for the utopians that's OK, because they aren't on any such list....Yet. Have you been groped by the TSA, or had a slanderous accusation against you, be patient. First they came for the Jews and I said nothing because.....
I can only hope and pray that this goes through to all all counties in all 50 states! I would want to know if anybody in my area was an animal abuser as I would know if they were a child molester. Any person who has a history of abusing LIVES, needs to be on a registry list to make the public aware so that they don't do it again! The prediction of future behavior is past behavior.
"The moral progress of a society can be measured by how its animals are treated." - Mahatma Gandhi
ANyone on this page who doubts the link and how abusers do their "thing" needs to read up on this topic. They need to read a great deal of how this works. Someone who watches a bull fight or a cock fight, in countries where it is legal or allowed, are not the ones to worry about. You need to worry about the ones that drown the dog or rooster that looses. Or electrocuted them when they loose. Those are the abusers and if they would abuse a defenseless animal then children and women are also easy targets. Wake up people. Mike Vick's homies fall into this category.
There already exists a Do Not Adopt List. This is an essential tool for animal rescues in the adoption process. There are crazies that adopt animals for bait dogs/cats, as hoarders, or with a history of abusing animals. Rescues share the information in a network. It is hardly rocket science to determine that anyone that will kick a dog will kick their wife or child. It is hard enough for an abused wife to get out, add leaving a defenseless animal with an angry abuser - makes it hard for them to leave knowing they may be signing a death sentence for a belovered pet. I hope more domestic violence shelters will partner with rescues.
There already exists a Do Not Adopt list for animal rescues. It is essential to screen out known abusers, hoarders or those that adopt to use pets as bait animals. If someone beats a dog it is not a far stretch of the imagine to conclude that they will strike out at a smaller, weaker person. An abuser, is an abuser, is an abuser... Unfortunately, unless they get caught they won't make the list. Since animals do not talk or have a capability to dial 911, it is no surprise that they suffer the most abuse from these sick individuals. I hope that more domestic violence shelters can partner with a shelter or create a program, so an abused person does not have to make the painful choice to leave a beloved animal to potential violence in order to seek safety.
It's not unconstitutional to put people on an offenders list if that person has been convicted of the crime. I suppose that it's unconstitutional to list the names of people and what they've been arrested for on a city or states website. And to any of you that think the next step is a list of who owns a gun.... blah blah blah... there already are.
Good, make a list of animal abusers! and that way when they abuse their children the powers that be can't say they didn't know he/she'd do that kind of thing.....
This is perfectly reasonable policy response to the fact that abusers like power. This is true whether it is power over women, children, other men, animals...it's all the same psychologically. People who have a power complex (overinflated ego + violent streak) need intervention, not privacy, because they are more likely than others to hurt people. Strangers, co-workers, family...it doesn't matter to them.
BRAVO - more states need to follow suit. The abuse of defenseless animals is SICK and INHUMANE. I personally have seen animal abusers turn into wife and child abusers. There needs to be heftier penalties for this type of behaviour. The abusers need to be incarcerated/Fined.