Ever notice if it's in the ground and we need it (fossil fuels, minerals), or want it (gold, diamonds), a lot of people end up dying? We should not stand for any further rebellion from our earth! If it continues, I will start changing my oil and antifreeze in the yard! Take that Blue Ball!
It is not surprising that the prevalence of black lung is much higher in southern West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky. Massey bought the politicians in this area one by one to hinder the EPA and MSHA.
"masks and breathing apparatus are available in most mines, Smith said many miners do not wear them. "They do not fit well with facial hair and many miners have beards"
Blaming big business for the consequences of peoples choices (wearing beards instead of masks), good job Eric and Bluelake
It seems you forgot the first part of the sentence, Greedy, where it said that the masks are available in MOST (not all; why is that?) and the last part of the sentence where it said that the masks hinder communication.
It seems you also overlooked this part of the story:
"The report blamed mine owner Massey Energy for safety failings, adding "the operator's commitment to production comes at the cost of safety." It cited inadequate ventilation systems and rock dusting standards."
Dont be a moron Free Mason..you cant be that nieve.
Everyone says Liberal like its a bad word...a liberal is actually a free thinker and someone who is open minded and isnt afraid to question their leaders.
A conservative.. someone who leaves no room for "though or questions"... they blindly follow and believe everything they are told. Its time to wake up guys...you have the "RIGHT" to question your leaders... Especially if your life is on the line
This is what happens when you beleive your boss is looking out for your interest and you beleive them without question.
Read up on Rand Pauls comments on mine regulations when he was campaigning Free Mason. He had to back peddle VERY quickly on that! Big Coal was backing him also. Sharon Angle was also for deregulating the coal and oil industry as well. Thank heavens she didn't get elected!
Actually Lexi Bush loosened regulations on dumping mine waste into valleys and streams while he was in office. He also put a LOT of big coal people in positions of power and did away with hundreds of Federal mine inspectors jobs.
Seems to me a huge failure of the federal government is to blame. They are the one's that are supposed to be enforcing OSHA. I really do not think the GOP runs down into coal mines and removes the coal dust mask from the workers faces.
Maybe we should make 3 new Federal offices to enforce the Occupational health and safety standards. One of them may start doing their jobs?
Actually when the ventilation is bad then dust masks don't help a lot. It has consistently been the republicans who have time and time again did every thing in their power to keep OSHA from having the power to actually DO something instead of just writing citations which will be ignored by the coal companies.
It's not under the jurisdiction of OSHA, mining is regulated by MSHA the Mine Safety Health Administration. For every 1000 OSHA Inspector there are 10 MSHA Inspectors; just as OSHA Inspectors are charged with enforcing safety laws in the general public workplace, MSHA Inspectors are charged with enforcing mine safety laws.
Part of the problem is the lack of funding for these inspections, corruption at the administrative levels at some mines, and at most political levels; antoher part of the problem is the misuse or complete failure to use PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) on the part of individual miners.
Fix these items and a lot of the problem can be controlled.
Seems to me a huge failure of the federal government is to blame. They are the one's that are supposed to be enforcing OSHA. I really do not think the GOP runs down into coal mines and removes the coal dust mask from the workers faces.
What happened to States rights? Is that what the GOP has be preaching. You can't call it a right, to make or ignore rules - then blame the Central government for not helping a state who "opts" out of the program.
If it's a budget issue and a State doesn't want to participate - they don't expect to stand in the Buffet line when they start passing out the plates.
My father left West Virginia to join the Navy during WW2 and never went back. He knew that if he did he would end up in the mines and 3 of his uncles died of black lung desease. His 4 younger brothers followed him to the northeast and none of them ever went back except to visit. There is no reason for anyone to be exposed to the danger of black lung. Mining is dangerous enough and the prevention of inhaling dust is the easiest of preventable health problems.
What gets me ... is those same states are anti union, anti-Federal intervention and Pro-GOP.
If you are trying to make a point that --- it seems to be at the cost of many lives, needlessly. If you keep voting the same folks into office they see that as proof that you are happy with the way things are going.
It was just a few years ago when one of the coal ash mounds started polluting the river that feed water to the Memphis? Instead of forcing the coal company to cleanup its own mess your govenor and federal congress people wanted the Feds to pay for it out of Federal pocket.
These were the same people whining about the Federal budget being too high, states rights and too much regulatory interference from the EPA who had told them to fix that potential problem year after year before it happened, just as predicted.
OSHA, the EPA have tried to get thing right there, but the state governor and the GOP prevent them every step of the way. You have to help yourself before you start blaming the feds for not forcing the state to do its job.
People in Pennsylvania are anti-union? Since when? If I'm not mistaken, PA's often characterized as a state where pro-union attitudes are often a key motivating factor behind why drive people choose to vote democrat when they otherwise may not (at least for people outside of Pittsburgh and Philly). If you polled people with regard to union attitudes, I'm at least fairly confident that PA wouldn't show up at the 'unfavorable' end of the spectrum when compared with other states.
Also, the pro-GOP thing holds in many of the rural areas, particularly in Western and Central PA. However, the state's not at all politically homogeneous.
Three of Tennessee's congressmen were among just 39 Democrats voting against the health care reform bill that was approved by the House 220-215 ...
Something which these miners will need, wished they had - once they are too sick to work the mines anymore. No doubt, by that time Massey will close the mine, neglect their pension and health care obligations to the former miners and likely close the mines to avoid having to clean-up the environmental mess they are creating today.
Damned if you do --- double damned if you don't.
Only one thing worse than being sick, broke and uneducated ... being sick, broke, uneducated and too proud to admit you were wrong.
Your absoultely right because they never question them. This is what these politicians count on. They want to keep you uneducated and lie to you. They figure uneducated people are easier to manipulate...just look at the middle east...uneducated populations manipulated by their religious leaders to blindly follow...in reality these religious leaders dont even believe their own spew..they are the first to run to outside countries to get drunk and chase females. I been to the middle east. These guys are all the same despite where they come from..they tell you what you want to hear until they get elected and then all their speeches and promises fly out the door. Just like this recent batch of repubs.....where are the jobs they campaigned on???? Believe me ..they are counting on your ignorance and want to keep you uneducated. They want us to become their surfs.
"Although masks and breathing apparatus are available in most mines, Smith said many miners do not wear them. "They do not fit well with facial hair and many miners have beards," he said. Also they can impair communications underground."
So miners choose not to wear safety equipment, then whine about getting sick.
Certainly there is the need for regulations and some of the trouble we are in now is the fact that the GOP has eliminated many regulations and, as a party, continue to try to 'unregulate' about everything else so that corporations will be able to increase their profits even more while not protecting employees, the environment or our national economy.
That's what greed, lack of regulations, and too many electricity-consuming gadgets will do to people. Coal is a dirty fuel, pouring toxic mercury into our children. The guy who ran Massey mine should be in prison or executed. The mining industry blows up mountains and ruins entire counties in its pursuit of Black Death and profits.
But really, why should the rest of us give a crap. These people in these heavily GOP populated areas deserve everything they are getting. If your dumb enough to work in a coal mine knowing the dangers. Don't cry about it if something happens.
Other mine company don't have the record that Massey does. Where are these people to go this all they know is mining. They started in the mine as kids and with no education.
Coal miners get black lung because they refuse to follow the rules. The safety equipment is provided, they just choose not to use it. How is this the government's fault? Aren't all the miners adults? They all know what the hazards and consequences of their actions are, but still they choose not to comply. Put the blame where it belongs, with the workers who refuse to use their brains and then try to blame everyone but themselves.
Coal miners get black lung because they refuse to follow the rules. The safety equipment is provided, they just choose not to use it. How is this the government's fault? Aren't all the miners adults? They all know what the hazards and consequences of their actions are, but still they choose not to comply...
Normally, I might agree with your point - essentially, it is true and the proper way to address the issue.
Its hard to protect people from their own stupidity? Pride? Traditions?
However, I have seen similar legal requirements being overruled by group standards. As mentioned in the the article, wearing the masks brings in another problem - they are unable to hear verbal commands, warnings. In the dark mines your sight is already limited, I would guess that the drilling, blasting and mechanical equipment further overwhelms your hearing -they probably are wearing hearing protection too. Maybe there is something else which warrants the endemic decision to not wear the mask?
Personally ... I find it ill-advised to not wear the safety equipment - but I don't work there, don't understand the work standards or the miners culture.
Think about it this way - Hockey players resisted wearing helmet until it the last of the old-timer players retired (they had a clause which allowed them to play without helmets if they chose not to wear them). The players recruited after the new rule was in place had no such choice - they either wore the helmets or were benched. Most likely the reason the rule are ignored is due to lack of enforcement?
Rodeo riders have or had the same change pushed on them. the Old timers wanted to keep doing things the same way it had been back in the old rodeo days. You took your lumps, got back on the horse and got back to rodeo-in. If it was too hard, too dangerous for you - then go find an easier sport - no sissy's allowed! After a few years ... watching riders being paralyzed for life after being stomped or gored by a ton of mean bull who didn't appreciate a flea riding him like he was horse or something .... Professional riders are wearing "armor", helmets - and the fans still come. Its not being a sissy - its being smart.
Full disclosure: I also dislike being forced to wear a seat-belt... resisted it on grounds of personal choice, personal freedom. Finally circumstances changed to the point that I had a legal waiver to not have to wear one - if I chose. Funny thing happened .... now that its my choice, I wear one almost all the time.
It is not more Paranoid for blame Republicans than it is for them to preach that Liberals are the ones pushing for re-regulation, Stronger standards for health and safety or Medical care and corporate responsibility. It should not be a sentence to early death for a person to take a job or live near a mine.
Republican are self identified in resisting OSHA "interference". In other words - the blame is nothing less than repeating what Republicans are already admitting. How can that be misinformed?
Please explain how its defamation when its what they saying they stand for?
"masks and breathing apparatus are available in most mines, Smith said many miners do not wear them. "They do not fit well with facial hair and many miners have beards"
Blaming big business for the consequences of peoples choices (wearing beards instead of masks), good job Eric and Bluelake
It's about time to quit masking the antics of the present GOP, they stopped being "Conservatives" several elections ago. Fact is - most of their policies are closer to "Regressive" than to Conservative. In almost every major area of current legislative debate, the GOP has tried to put things back to the 50's and 60's - where Business was King and workers were disposable. Every Anti-Union, step is regressive - an attempt to remove the mechanisms which prevent the most egregious, the most flagrant abuses of corporate power - even worse, led by lobbyist (fueled by excessive donations) they are attempting to not only remove safeguards put in place after identifying long term, systematic abuse forcing workers to work overtime, without pay or compensation, prevent them from seeking remedy though the courts when the company ignores their complaints ... these companies are attempting to enlist the Federal Government to rubber stamp these efforts at de-regulation. Essentially, putting workers back into the status of "serfs", owned by the companies - placed into endless financial servitude.
If Democrats = Liberal = Progressives.... Then Republicans = Conservatives = Regressives. Conservatives used to mean, lets move cautiously, slow progress to a rate that people, companies can absorbe and accomodate change. Unfortunately, today the "Conservatives" are advocating moving so slowly the they are now moving backwards and trying to take the country with them.
Thank heaven it burns clean. Otherwise it might pollute our lungs and kill us.
Ever notice if it's in the ground and we need it (fossil fuels, minerals), or want it (gold, diamonds), a lot of people end up dying? We should not stand for any further rebellion from our earth! If it continues, I will start changing my oil and antifreeze in the yard! Take that Blue Ball!
It is not surprising that the prevalence of black lung is much higher in southern West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky. Massey bought the politicians in this area one by one to hinder the EPA and MSHA.
There is a fine example of "If we get rid of these burdensome regulations business will create more jobs". At the mortuary.
Your Right Wing bastards at work.
eric- You put it perfectly. The repubs will do everything they can to destroy OSHA. Right wing bastards indeed!!
"masks and breathing apparatus are available in most mines, Smith said many miners do not wear them. "They do not fit well with facial hair and many miners have beards"
Blaming big business for the consequences of peoples choices (wearing beards instead of masks), good job Eric and Bluelake
It seems you forgot the first part of the sentence, Greedy, where it said that the masks are available in MOST (not all; why is that?) and the last part of the sentence where it said that the masks hinder communication.
It seems you also overlooked this part of the story:
"The report blamed mine owner Massey Energy for safety failings, adding "the operator's commitment to production comes at the cost of safety." It cited inadequate ventilation systems and rock dusting standards."
anything for a buck, eh?
bonos_rama -
"anything for a buck, eh?" Including killing people. Well, that is the definition of a greedy capitalist. He's just living up to his moniker.
Thanks to the Repukes...
So China and India are run by republicans?
Actually it IS the republicans who are behind most of the regulations being neutered concerning coal dust and safety. Think Massey and 29 dead miners.
Wasn't Massey just found to be negligent?
As to Republicans of course not ALL ----Bush / Cheney----read history
Dont be a moron Free Mason..you cant be that nieve.
Everyone says Liberal like its a bad word...a liberal is actually a free thinker and someone who is open minded and isnt afraid to question their leaders.
A conservative.. someone who leaves no room for "though or questions"... they blindly follow and believe everything they are told. Its time to wake up guys...you have the "RIGHT" to question your leaders... Especially if your life is on the line
This is what happens when you beleive your boss is looking out for your interest and you beleive them without question.
Read up on Rand Pauls comments on mine regulations when he was campaigning Free Mason. He had to back peddle VERY quickly on that! Big Coal was backing him also. Sharon Angle was also for deregulating the coal and oil industry as well. Thank heavens she didn't get elected!
Actually Lexi Bush loosened regulations on dumping mine waste into valleys and streams while he was in office. He also put a LOT of big coal people in positions of power and did away with hundreds of Federal mine inspectors jobs.
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2009/2009-10-20-097.html
http://danielrcobb.com/?p=7
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2009/2009-10-20-097.html
I really hope all the business people in the world who have cut corners to save money at the expense of workers are sent to the lowest level of hell.
Seems to me a huge failure of the federal government is to blame. They are the one's that are supposed to be enforcing OSHA. I really do not think the GOP runs down into coal mines and removes the coal dust mask from the workers faces.
Maybe we should make 3 new Federal offices to enforce the Occupational health and safety standards. One of them may start doing their jobs?
Actually when the ventilation is bad then dust masks don't help a lot. It has consistently been the republicans who have time and time again did every thing in their power to keep OSHA from having the power to actually DO something instead of just writing citations which will be ignored by the coal companies.
It's not under the jurisdiction of OSHA, mining is regulated by MSHA the Mine Safety Health Administration. For every 1000 OSHA Inspector there are 10 MSHA Inspectors; just as OSHA Inspectors are charged with enforcing safety laws in the general public workplace, MSHA Inspectors are charged with enforcing mine safety laws.
Part of the problem is the lack of funding for these inspections, corruption at the administrative levels at some mines, and at most political levels; antoher part of the problem is the misuse or complete failure to use PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) on the part of individual miners.
Fix these items and a lot of the problem can be controlled.
Your right Oscar, MSHA has jurisdiction over coal mines. Wasn't paying attention well enough. lol
What happened to States rights? Is that what the GOP has be preaching. You can't call it a right, to make or ignore rules - then blame the Central government for not helping a state who "opts" out of the program.
If it's a budget issue and a State doesn't want to participate - they don't expect to stand in the Buffet line when they start passing out the plates.
Ghostmaker, The GOP has nothing to do with the Federal Government ?
Are Partisans dumber than Independent thinkers or does it just seem like it?
My father left West Virginia to join the Navy during WW2 and never went back. He knew that if he did he would end up in the mines and 3 of his uncles died of black lung desease. His 4 younger brothers followed him to the northeast and none of them ever went back except to visit. There is no reason for anyone to be exposed to the danger of black lung. Mining is dangerous enough and the prevention of inhaling dust is the easiest of preventable health problems.
What gets me ... is those same states are anti union, anti-Federal intervention and Pro-GOP.
If you are trying to make a point that --- it seems to be at the cost of many lives, needlessly. If you keep voting the same folks into office they see that as proof that you are happy with the way things are going.
It was just a few years ago when one of the coal ash mounds started polluting the river that feed water to the Memphis? Instead of forcing the coal company to cleanup its own mess your govenor and federal congress people wanted the Feds to pay for it out of Federal pocket.
These were the same people whining about the Federal budget being too high, states rights and too much regulatory interference from the EPA who had told them to fix that potential problem year after year before it happened, just as predicted.
OSHA, the EPA have tried to get thing right there, but the state governor and the GOP prevent them every step of the way. You have to help yourself before you start blaming the feds for not forcing the state to do its job.
Go figure....
People in Pennsylvania are anti-union? Since when? If I'm not mistaken, PA's often characterized as a state where pro-union attitudes are often a key motivating factor behind why drive people choose to vote democrat when they otherwise may not (at least for people outside of Pittsburgh and Philly). If you polled people with regard to union attitudes, I'm at least fairly confident that PA wouldn't show up at the 'unfavorable' end of the spectrum when compared with other states.
Also, the pro-GOP thing holds in many of the rural areas, particularly in Western and Central PA. However, the state's not at all politically homogeneous.
Of course...you dont expect them to give up any of their profits do you?
What gets me is when you get these governors who gripe about the federal government but when they get in a bind who is the first one they run too??
Rednecks in suits are so stupid..they give the rest of us rednecks a bad name.
Yeah Bush...all your deregulation is doing real good huh...yeah at setting us back 50 years!!!
The black lungers will vote for the very people responsible for their health problems..
The irony of corruption in Tennessee?
Something which these miners will need, wished they had - once they are too sick to work the mines anymore. No doubt, by that time Massey will close the mine, neglect their pension and health care obligations to the former miners and likely close the mines to avoid having to clean-up the environmental mess they are creating today.
Damned if you do --- double damned if you don't.
Only one thing worse than being sick, broke and uneducated ... being sick, broke, uneducated and too proud to admit you were wrong.
Your absoultely right because they never question them. This is what these politicians count on. They want to keep you uneducated and lie to you. They figure uneducated people are easier to manipulate...just look at the middle east...uneducated populations manipulated by their religious leaders to blindly follow...in reality these religious leaders dont even believe their own spew..they are the first to run to outside countries to get drunk and chase females. I been to the middle east. These guys are all the same despite where they come from..they tell you what you want to hear until they get elected and then all their speeches and promises fly out the door. Just like this recent batch of repubs.....where are the jobs they campaigned on???? Believe me ..they are counting on your ignorance and want to keep you uneducated. They want us to become their surfs.
"Although masks and breathing apparatus are available in most mines, Smith said many miners do not wear them. "They do not fit well with facial hair and many miners have beards," he said. Also they can impair communications underground."
So miners choose not to wear safety equipment, then whine about getting sick.
"Stupid is as stupid does." - Mamma Gump
Where in that story did you read about miners whining? These are autopsy results.
Certainly there is the need for regulations and some of the trouble we are in now is the fact that the GOP has eliminated many regulations and, as a party, continue to try to 'unregulate' about everything else so that corporations will be able to increase their profits even more while not protecting employees, the environment or our national economy.
That's what greed, lack of regulations, and too many electricity-consuming gadgets will do to people. Coal is a dirty fuel, pouring toxic mercury into our children. The guy who ran Massey mine should be in prison or executed. The mining industry blows up mountains and ruins entire counties in its pursuit of Black Death and profits.
Wow, what a shock.
But really, why should the rest of us give a crap. These people in these heavily GOP populated areas deserve everything they are getting. If your dumb enough to work in a coal mine knowing the dangers. Don't cry about it if something happens.
Other mine company don't have the record that Massey does. Where are these people to go this all they know is mining. They started in the mine as kids and with no education.
Coal miners get black lung because they refuse to follow the rules. The safety equipment is provided, they just choose not to use it. How is this the government's fault? Aren't all the miners adults? They all know what the hazards and consequences of their actions are, but still they choose not to comply. Put the blame where it belongs, with the workers who refuse to use their brains and then try to blame everyone but themselves.
Pride goeth before a fall...
Normally, I might agree with your point - essentially, it is true and the proper way to address the issue.
Its hard to protect people from their own stupidity? Pride? Traditions?
However, I have seen similar legal requirements being overruled by group standards. As mentioned in the the article, wearing the masks brings in another problem - they are unable to hear verbal commands, warnings. In the dark mines your sight is already limited, I would guess that the drilling, blasting and mechanical equipment further overwhelms your hearing -they probably are wearing hearing protection too. Maybe there is something else which warrants the endemic decision to not wear the mask?
Personally ... I find it ill-advised to not wear the safety equipment - but I don't work there, don't understand the work standards or the miners culture.
Think about it this way - Hockey players resisted wearing helmet until it the last of the old-timer players retired (they had a clause which allowed them to play without helmets if they chose not to wear them). The players recruited after the new rule was in place had no such choice - they either wore the helmets or were benched. Most likely the reason the rule are ignored is due to lack of enforcement?
Rodeo riders have or had the same change pushed on them. the Old timers wanted to keep doing things the same way it had been back in the old rodeo days. You took your lumps, got back on the horse and got back to rodeo-in. If it was too hard, too dangerous for you - then go find an easier sport - no sissy's allowed! After a few years ... watching riders being paralyzed for life after being stomped or gored by a ton of mean bull who didn't appreciate a flea riding him like he was horse or something .... Professional riders are wearing "armor", helmets - and the fans still come. Its not being a sissy - its being smart.
Full disclosure: I also dislike being forced to wear a seat-belt... resisted it on grounds of personal choice, personal freedom. Finally circumstances changed to the point that I had a legal waiver to not have to wear one - if I chose. Funny thing happened .... now that its my choice, I wear one almost all the time.
"I think i have the black lung, pop... *cough cough*"
It takes all three players - workers, company, OSHA/MSHA - to make this work. To blame Republicans is paraoid and misinformed.
You're right Ray, there is more to blame here than a single political party, Republican or Democrat.
BS...
It is not more Paranoid for blame Republicans than it is for them to preach that Liberals are the ones pushing for re-regulation, Stronger standards for health and safety or Medical care and corporate responsibility. It should not be a sentence to early death for a person to take a job or live near a mine.
Republican are self identified in resisting OSHA "interference". In other words - the blame is nothing less than repeating what Republicans are already admitting. How can that be misinformed?
Please explain how its defamation when its what they saying they stand for?
Wait until the miners get paid in company script.
"masks and breathing apparatus are available in most mines, Smith said many miners do not wear them. "They do not fit well with facial hair and many miners have beards"
Blaming big business for the consequences of peoples choices (wearing beards instead of masks), good job Eric and Bluelake
People have a lot of bad things to say about nuclear power, but coal is clearly the most dangerous source of energy!
It's about time to quit masking the antics of the present GOP, they stopped being "Conservatives" several elections ago. Fact is - most of their policies are closer to
"Regressive" than to Conservative. In almost every major area of current legislative debate, the GOP has tried to put things back to the 50's and 60's - where Business was King and workers were disposable. Every Anti-Union, step is regressive - an attempt to remove the mechanisms which prevent the most egregious, the most flagrant abuses of corporate power - even worse, led by lobbyist (fueled by excessive donations) they are attempting to not only remove safeguards put in place after identifying long term, systematic abuse forcing workers to work overtime, without pay or compensation, prevent them from seeking remedy though the courts when the company ignores their complaints ... these companies are attempting to enlist the Federal Government to rubber stamp these efforts at de-regulation. Essentially, putting workers back into the status of "serfs", owned by the companies - placed into endless financial servitude.
If Democrats = Liberal = Progressives.... Then Republicans = Conservatives = Regressives. Conservatives used to mean, lets move cautiously, slow progress to a rate that people, companies can absorbe and accomodate change. Unfortunately, today the "Conservatives" are advocating moving so slowly the they are now moving backwards and trying to take the country with them.
This is an example of what happens when you allow deregulation. People die just so the owners can make a profit. This is pure greed and you know it!