Tales of 3 Marines underscore court decision blasting 'unchecked incompetence' at agency
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comReturning veterans encounter VA mental health meltdown
Seeded on Sat May 28, 2011 1:22 PM EDT (msnbc.com)
- msnbc.com sites & shows:
- TODAY
- Rock Center
- Nightly News
- Meet the Press
- Dateline
- Morning Joe
- Hardball
- Ed
- Maddow
- Last Word
- msnbc tv
Leave a Comment:
But we can trust Govt w/everyone's health care. Yippee!
‘Unchecked incompetence'
this is without a doubt the very best description of the U.S. Government and the politicians who run it i have ever heard in my life.
opps
....dang you starkydoo!! You told the truth on the first post and now you're going to get collapsed by the thought police!
article..."Susan Selke recently received a letter from the VA approving an increase in her son Clay Hunt's disability benefits.
It arrived five weeks after his death."... Unbelievable, unforgivable. If the VA can't handle the job, they need to outsource it. The military outsources construction, why not mental health?
that said i have always had good luck with our Iowa City V.A. hospital, and staff. kudos to them.
Maybe it's not the system but rather individual doctors in individual VA hospitals that can't do their job properly. This happens outside the VA hospitals too or malpractice law suits would not be a problem.
The military outsources construction, maintenance, food service and many other functions, but the VA isn't the military, it's a civilian government agency tasked with serving military veterans.
I absolutely agree with the "unchecked incompetence" statement, then again, let them think you owe them money, and you'll see how efficient the VA and our government are (my tax refund was lightened by a deduction from the VA, despite the fact I was unemployed most of last year and my care was supposed to be covered because of my Iraq combat service) !!!
Returning veterans encounter VA mental health meltdown
This was, and is true for every war/conflict we've fought, and not just Iraq, Afghanistan and maybe Libya. May they all find comfort somehow.
This is why only fools and the financially desperate go into the military. Lots of politician talk about how us citizens must worship combat veterans like Gods after they return from a morally corrupt war, but the government itself will turn their backs on those who did their bidding.
My wife is from Ukraine, and so I have become familiar with their customs. Our military has become no different than the Russian military. Congratulations, we are now like Russia! I'm sure that makes all of you war hawks so proud!
All the promises they make to you when they are trying to get you to enlist are reneged on when you have done your duty and they don`t need you anymore.
if you raise a stink and try to get them to live up to the promises they made they make sure that your claim gets misplaced or otherwise ignored indefinately. you`re right only fools should join the military.
The VA isn't a civilian government agency. It hires veterans. I was a civilian employee at a VA hospital and was told I was too efficient. The patients loved me because I had no problems making calls about benefits and asking all the "Why" questions. I could get the patients seen in a matter of hours depending on the situation. If the Dr. doesn't know about the problem, then it doesn't exist. The military employees feel that they have to stick by the book. I used to see too much red tape and eliminate it. When you need help, you need help. I worked in mental health. We didn't have dr's, but every veteran that came in off the street I made sure, that they were going to get seen that day, no matter what and made calls for follow up make sure they will come back to the appointments. I used to put myself on the line for these guys because I know they did it for me. I loved my job, the pay was horrible, but I loved my patients.
I was terminated because I was told my position was no longer needed(BIG LIE), so they hired a veteran in my place who has never worked in health care much less in an office. The only reason why the person got the job is because they are a veteran. So don't say civilian run agency, see govt. only does what govt. is trained to do, not think outside the box and that we are all not made out of a cookie cutters. Hire more civilians and get rid of the veteran's preference. Make the employees accountable instead of the ability to pass the buck. Make efficiency a must, and make the employees human instead of check collectors.
Military does a lot of things right, however, mental health and the stigma that comes with it doesn't fit neatly into the military.
They need more professionals that have expertise in EMDR to handle these PTSD cases.
I agree that the treatment our armed forces personnel receive when they get home is abominable. I do question one item in this article. It says that there are "more than 1 million veterans currently awaiting decisions on disability claims." I find this number hard to believe when the entire strength of our armed forces, including reserves and national guard, is only about 2.3 million. Of that about 1.4 million are Army or Marine Corps personnel (active, reserve, and guard). This would put the number of personnel claiming some form of disability at a very high percentage of those who have served, particularly with the number of personnel in the military who never see a day of combat. I feel that there are those claiming PTSD or other disabilities that are just trying to work the system and do not really have any problems. They are just trying to get whatever they can out of the government. The personnel that do this and game the system are hurting those who really do need help by consuming the limited resources without having a real need. It is those that try and game the system that cause many of the problems. They cause the need for many reviews to try and make sure that those who receive benefits truly need and are entitle to them. They also create an large part of the backlog of claims that need to be reviewed.
Our military deserve to be taken care of when they get home if they have problems.
Congress & the Obama administration should be restricted to the same V.A. health care, only.. If they want better health care, let them pay for it..!!
These Veterans have sacrificed way more than most of the talking heads in Washington..
Time for a government that is for America 1st.
I don't know what people are complaining about. Every congressman and senator is making a profit on their investments in war contractors, oil and insurance company stocks.
As Americans you are all ultimately responsible for allowing such disgraceful insider trading while these very same people send your sons, daughters, sisters, brothers mothers and fathers off to wars to protect their investments.
And unfortunately you have learned nothing and will sit on the sidelines in ignorant bliss as the next generation goes off to yet another war for profit.
It is every single Americans fault and that can Not be argued after 10 years of this garbage.
Silly me, how dare I hold a mirror up revealing your hypocrisy. Its a three day weekend and you should all be out enjoying your BBQs and beer. Don't give such deep subjects any thought at all. Leave that to the 20 year olds we send off to the front lines. Its their own fault for signing up under the guise of "protecting our freedoms" right???.
Happy Memorial Day. Enjoy yourselves. You deserve it.
The entrenchment of the psycho/pharma $$$ generating machine within the VA is the SINGLE biggest factor in the SPIKE in returning vets involved in harming themselves. Whether by SWAT team or their own actions.
You CAN'T throw pills at a EXPERIENTIAL based adjustment difficulty. Its proven over and over that it MIGHT be the current "standard of care" but it ISN'T ANY KIND OF TREATMENT.
AND EXPERIENCES AREN'T A MENTAL ILLNESS.
Treating Vets this way IS AN EMBARRASSMENT on a national level.
Come on down to Tennessee. They are giving out 100 % disability for PTSD to VietNam veterans like handing out candy. It doesn't matter if you saw action. Just read the pamphlets they give out describing PTSD, parrot the symptoms of PTSD back to them and go through the treatment program. Boom! They don't have to wait long to receive benefits and retroactive back pay. My husband volunteered for the Marines during the VietNam war when he was eighteen in 1969. He was shot through the chest and the bullet missed his heart by millimeters and punctured his lung and came out his back. He had a sucking chest wound but the choppers could not land because of the NVA sniper fire. He had to lay six hours before they could medivac him out of there. He was there during monsoon season eating food out of a can. My husband contracted malaria and hepatitis C from the blood transfusion the doctors gave him in Japan. The Marines sent him back home at nineteen with no insurance and no counseling but promised 50% disability which was about $300 a month. His records from 1982 had one psychologist saying he had symptoms of PTSD. He was denied until he almost had a nervous breakdown and had to quit his job at with the U.S. postal service. Finally, he appealed all the denials he had claimed all these years and was granted disability. Sorry, money doesn't undo the damage to the soldier, spouse, and children who suffer also.
Like with most stories here. Those who have their opinion dictated to them by fox news who are trying to make this an anti-Obama anti-medicare anti-single payer arent really fooling anyone with their "everything is big governments fault" crap.
If you at least would use your own words rather than repeat the Fox talking points you might be believable as having your own thoughts.
Teabag logic isnt logic at all. Its poop!
The government can contract out for construction, food service etc because private industry can make a big profit in it. There is no profit in mental health care because as a society we relegate it to the sidelines. As a country we have by and large atrocious mental health care services. Mental illness is still stigmatized as a personal failing and malingering, and government and insurance companies try to manage it by limiting access. No other medical service is subject to so much review and denial of continuing services. The problem is not limited to the VA and returning service men and women - it affects our entire population.
Heck of a job, Party of No and Baggers.
At least, Democrats are willing to fund the needs of Veterans.
The cost of war never includes the after care that is necessary. Post Vietnam, you would sit for the entire day to be seen for a service connected disability.
My primary care provider was Navy Reserve and was called up to serve in Afghanistan--patching up Marines. The VA is underfunded and he was not replaced. The WWII vets have just about died off as well as the Vets from the Korean War. Now, we Vietnam Era Vets are the elders--and there's a helluva lot of us. I look around and I see these fine young men and women that are waiting for appointments. Every generation--we're promised aftercare.
To the government---you broke me---you fix em. You promised and you had better deliver.
Brandon-801865: Brandon, I certainly hope that is true. From what I have seen PERSONALLY at the VA in Atlanta, if they can't fix it with a pill, you will die.
The stories about the VA hospitals, appointments and getting care are so very conflicting. Military folks getting the rap for not providing for their fellow warriors. I tend to think that is bull sh-t. Where can we find the truth in this matter? Is there anything like truth in this matter? The VA system is very expensive and if in fact that department is the problem then it should be eliminated and all service men who come home and discharged should be automatically enrolled in Medicare immediately, with the gap insurance covered as part of the amount of disability incurred. At least there would be no delay getting that assistance and close to home if that is what the Vet wants.
I think there is too much smoke that we can't see the fire coming out of the VA System. I don't care a hoot what civilian folks are hurt from such a move. We have an obligation to the young men and women coming home with destroyed minds and bodies. Even one more suicide like we read about in this article and one more struggle, to get the help we have promised these people, will be too many. This is so sad, I am a NAM era Vet, and my civilian medicare coverage covers me. I never asked anything for myself, but I cry for the way the Military portion of MY Govt. treats its obligations towards our current Veterans.
To the Jack ass who thinks that these folks don't deserve treatment or those that compare our Country to Russia, I invite them to go there and live. Our Vets have more than paid their dues as Americans. Are civilian employees at the VA to fault? Or are exmilitary people to fault certainly someone is. If they can't handle the load hire more, but don't just blame the government it is a nonhuman participant. Blame the humans involved, not the inanimate object.
God bless these brave people that put themselves into harms way for our sake.
I worked at and was a patient at the VA in Decatur, GA, (not Atlanta). They use the Emory rotation of Residents and interns--they do a helluva job. It's a model and I don't believe that you really have the experiences that you claim.
sandtrich: You are wrong. My husband is a Viet Nam veteran with cancer from Agent Orange. I know what I see and how he and other veterans are treated. My husband has kidney failure from chemo and radiation and they just "watch it" instead of putting him on dialysis because he is 70. So yes, I know what I am talking about. We have spent the last 10 years at that hospital. Yes, they have good doctors, but they see about 150 patients PER DAY, if not more.
And that is 150 patients per day or more PER doctor. They are overwhelmed and understaffed.
That is not true. The maximum scheduling allowed is 4 patients/ hour in a 7 1/2 hour work period. That's 30 patients/day maximum. If you are speaking of surgical rounds, that is a different story. I too, am a Vietnam Era Veteran and my brother did a turn in country---bringing home a Purple Heart plus effects on liver and kidneys from Agent Orange exposure--the wonderful gift of Dow Chemicals and Monsanto--which are now the leaders in the agribusiness in development of hybrid seeds.
Miss Peech--Here's a series of #'s and they will respond to any complaints.
Patient Advocates/Representatives
If you have a compliment, complaint, or other issue which you believe requires resolution, please contact one of our patient representatives at 404-321-6111, ext. 7803/5184/6887/7804/2264/7557.
If people would start pushing their Representatives and Senators to fund and supply the VA adequately, we would not need these supposed "Help your veterens" charities. These charities are mostly a money making scheme for a few people. Little of the money really reaches the vets. Most is turned back into fund raising. That is a joke. The VA is the center for helping our veterens and if we really believe that they deserve the best help possible, then fund and get the best people in these hospitals to bring these men and women back home.
How about we cut defense spending to help pay for Veterans care. The last quarter of 2010 Congress pass $686B in NEW contracts for Boeing, Lockheed, etc. It's funny how they can always justify more money for wars, yet not for the effects of wars.
sandtrich: You are incorrect. They do see that many patients in Atlanta. Every day. You need to go there and count. I am not speaking of surgical rounds. I am speaking of doctor's appointments. And those figures are for EVERY DAY they work. They MIGHT should see what you quoted, but that ISN'T how many they are seeing in Atlanta. I have spent enough time there that I know what I am talking about.
You think that 1 million just woke up this morning and decided to file? When do you think we first started Afghanistan? 10 yrs ago. 10 yrs of back to back to back deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq. You think its cake walk over there? You think we just walk around with Hawaii t-shirts and flipflops and a m16? Try doing daily patrols with 60 lbs + worth of gear, getting shot at, blowned up by IEDs, horrenious working conditions, seeing your friends getting killed, etc. Knees, backs, shouders gets worned down and never be the same. You think they come out perfectly fine? You think you can have 3 stimulus wars and say its fine and dandy? Even if we end all 3 wars and go straight home........... we will be still paying for this grave mistake for decades. How many injured vets will be using VA resources for decades?
Compounded by understaffed VA workers working on paperwork and about 250k miliary veterans leaving the military per year.
I bet you are the same group that don't mind screaming bomb Iran or North Korea without any consequences then whine when the bill comes.
I would say that the problem does not really lie in the health care system but in the claims evaluators. They give you a 1-800 number to call if you have any concerns or need to talk to someone about your claim but when you call you will never talk to a claims evaluator. Your call will be screened by someone that doesn't have access to the computer screen to give you an answer as to where your claim stands.
In many cases when you have an appeal on a claim they will take well over a year to even get to it.Then if you are called in for a re-evaluation and you aren't dying or showing the pain that you really are feeling then they write it up to the detriment of the vet.
I know people that had disabilities processed through SSDI and heard back within 2 months but for a Vet it might take 6 months or more to hear back on an initial claim.
The problem is the claims people at the VA seem to be worried about job security and think if they prolong the claims they will always have jobs.
According to some of the VA operators they are approx 1,000,000 claims behind and in some areas they are working on appeals from 2007-2008 so if you are just putting in an appeal it could be 2 or more years before they can get to yours.
GWB and the republican cong and sen cut funding for the VA in 2001 ... some of the cuts were returned in 2008 by the dems ,, bu the funding has never been fully restored.. thanks to the party of NO
blah blah blah democrats blah blah blah republicans blah blah nothing ever changes because we're too stupid to see they're both the same.
Politicans are too interested in making the other party look stupid to actually get anything good done, and people like timewonttell perpetuate it by giving one side all the credit, and the other all the blame.
There are horror stories from some VA hospitals and glowing reports from others. Bottom line, it needs fixing across the board. Tossing pills for PTSD is not the answer, counseling is. This is the problem with a bureaucracy, reams and tons of paperwork and processing and regulations and forms to wade through before something gets done.
Let's take a look at the competence of the American public. Each and every one of these damned invasions and/or incursions into foreign countries was supported by a clear majority of Americans. The story is the same over and over and over.
Gulf of Tonkin incident - A lie. But it was all the excuse Americans needed to thump their chests and send 58,000 Americans to their deaths, and hundreds of thousands more into treatment for grievous wounds - both medical and mental. More than a million Viet Namese were killed or wounded in THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
This plays out again and again right up to this moment. We are mired in two more invasions - one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. Thousands more Americans dead and tens of thousands more wounded. Saddam Hussein is dead, there were no weapons of mass destruction, the Taliban is still operational, Osama bin Laden is dead and still Americans are dying. Hundreds of thousands are dead or wounded in THEIR OWN COUNTRIES and we have the balls to call them enemy combatants.
How many times do I hear armchair warriors and chicken hawks go on about how WE need to go to war; how WE need to go kick some ass; how WE need to go shoot 'em up? Answer me that, all you Dick Cheney's and George Bush Junior's and John Doolittles - draft-dodging, gutless scum. And then you cut the budget for treating returning veterans.
How many of you remember all the warmongering pigs who denied that there were any medical problems with Desert Storm veterans? How many remember the warmongering punks telling us that Agent Orange was no problem?
You know what, we wouldn't even need these hospitals if Americans would once - just once - tell their elected officials that if they get that damned war itch, "Scratch it yourself!" Stop sending other people's kids to do their killing for the rich. Look at this link. Take one damned minute and go look at it if you think this is about anything more than carrying water for the rich. http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html#c1
My experience with the Veterans Administration has been fabulous. That's right, fabulous! Do they make mistakes? I'm sure they do, but we are never going to give them the time or the money to get it right.
What we will give them is a never ending stream of patients. Ain't war grand?
Hear! Hear!
Well stated David.
Thought police!??!?! You think that's a valid thought???? That's not a valid thought, that's one of y'alls firmly implanted talking points - to which thou shalt not waiver, or ask a single question!
MY doctor, doing his thing, to doctor ME has no bearing on who's paying the tab - if it's the gooobermint, or an insurance company, or the wad of hundreds in my pocket - it still MY doctor - not a govt hospital which Y'ALL would prefer NOT TO FUND!!!
You people must really enjoy being stupidly hysterical about stupid sheee-it! Back slappin' each other on just how far out you can make it sound. Y'all do it to yourself with this rampant ignorance.
Collapsed under the category of NO VALUE!
I completely understand what my fellow Marines are going through.
However, I would like to say that the VA here in Cincinnati, Ohio has done an outstanding job for me and others I know. I've received excellent treatment and I know other veterans who have as well. I guess this VA is the exception to the rule.
That said, I am still waiting for an answer on my disability claim filed last year.
I hope the VA continues to improve nationwide.
Yea, maybe they need to focus on improvements for the VA instead of worrying about everyone's private health insurance.
You filed a claim last year --- Vets being a tiny fraction of the population --- yet they want to oversee 300 million people health care.
Simply amazing.
As a vet using the VA system I can say that it's among the BEST health care out there!! If Americans want health care that's good, they only need serve their country and work for it! ....oops, nationalized health care wouldn't just be for Americans now, would it?
As for the MSNBC piece.... 'unchecked incompetence' with 3 examples over a period of 5+ years!!??? Another non-issue.
Glad to hear Cincy does a good job, Dayton - not so much.
Good luck with health care from the VA!! After 20 years of health care with the VA, my husband passed away. Prior to his passing he wasn't feeling well and I took him in. He has lost 16 pounds since his last visit there (2 months), he was so weak he couldn't even stand up. We were told nothing wrong and "no reason to admit him". That was the 17th of December 2009 and Jan 5, 2010, he had passed away. I wrote a letter to the VA and of course never received a response. So if you think this is the best health care you can get--again, good luck.
@ starkydoo
This is nothing new as it's been going on since the injured started returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. The Marine said he had no problem with the VA in Cincinnati. Filing for a disability claim is another story but is no different than filing for a claim with a private company. Disability claims go through a long process to determine if the person is really disabled or not. Been that way since the beginning.
People on Medicare have no problem getting treatment. If the Marine in Ohio isn't having problems with the VA hospital in his area it must be a problem with individual VA hospitals rather than all of them. Maybe the personal at those hospitals need to be investigated.
Mental Health Care is not adequate for the Civilians, let alone the Vets.
Same thing up in Canada. Government controlled healthcare. It takes forever to reach a doctor.
If by "forever" you mean 3-10 days, I will agree. I lived in Canada for 3 years as a permanent (legal) resident, and I was more than satisfied with the medical care my family received. Perhaps the hospitals don't have palm treed courtyards, gourmet restaurants or a Starbucks in the lobby, but the treatment given is equal to or better than hospitals in the U.S.
That's what I've heard from every Canadian I've talked to. They get great care and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get it, just a hand (just kidding). Without the VA I'd have no health care (those pre existing conditions don't you know), so I'm grateful for what I get. I've been satisfied with my care in Nebr. They took very good care of me when I needed it the most for a heart condition and I got great response and help when I had a bout with depression. Guess it just depends on where you are, pretty much like everything else.
Does anybody really believe that if, upon returning from service, we put our veterans into a private health care and private health insurance system, that they would get better care? Don't you believe it!
The private corporation running that system would pay millions of dollars to grease politicians and pay lobbyists to make sure the contracts and money (our tax money) kept flowing their way. They would then make sure that their accountants figured out ways to keep even more money on the profit side of the books. In fact the whole system would be a slave to the profit picture of the managing private corporations.
Just as many, if not more of our wounded and needful combat vets would be ignored. The quality and duration of their care again a slave to the need for profit. Do you think that the people hired by these corporations are going be all high paid and competent individuals? They will hire fast food clerks and charge Mayo Clinic prices. And they will surely demand, as part of their contract, immunity from malpractice and civil liability and that immunity will be given to them by the politicians financially indebted to them. Care will be denied on a basis of cost and profitability. Our veterans will be treated no better in the private sector.
There is abroad in this country a well financed, right wing effort to convince us that all government is bad and ineffective, that we should privatize every function of government and then everything would run better smoother and blah, blah, blah. Of course that is horse crap. If you privatize these services I will guarantee you 2 things: The quality and duration of care will NOT go up and, it will cost a hell of a lot more.
A final tiny example. Recently in Chicago the city government sold ( or leased for a hundred years or so) the parking meter system and parking business in general to a PRIVATE corporation. Did the parking spaces get any bigger or cleaner or better? Of course not. But what did change was the cost of parking for one hour on the streets of Chicago. In the neighborhoods a meter that cost 25 cents an hour to park now costs...wait for it...$2.00 an hour!
Privatize the VA? Privatize Medicare, Social Security and the Military? Good luck paying for that America!!!
I wish that private healthcare was nearly as good as the VA's system. I have an 8am lab draw and when I have my doctor appointment at 9:30, he has the results of all the labs on the computer in front of him. I wish all that all Americans could get the same quality of healthcare without having to mortgage their lives away.
Mike S., FYI, I lived in Alberta, Canada for two years, excellent health care, cost a couple of hundred bucks a year, period...no problem getting a doctor, could go whenever. Didn't like one doc, changed with no problem. Went to two hospitals for emergencies (one with a sick kid, once fell down the stairs). Excellent care, did not have to wait long.
If the Canadians can do this why can't we?
Brandon once again that's full on BS and you know it Republicans may be war mongers but at least they take care of our soldiers, it's the Dems that cut cut cut.
The government has provided guaranteed healthcare to millions since 1965. It has been working very well for those who benefit. Social Security is another popular working government program.
We need to cancel a few tax breaks for billionaires, oil companies, and the Wall Street Execs who helped crashed the economy, and get the funding for these essential programs fixed once and for all. There are many other ways to bring Medicare costs down that haven't been implemented yet, but are in the works. Generalizing all government programs as useless and non-functional is absurd.
sandtrich-- Amen to that!!!
Semper Fi Mo! I hope they do right by you. The Fresno VA Medical Center is also a great VA facility. The Fresno Vets Center has some really dedicated quality people helping vets too. I am in my 7thyear of appealing a low rating for PTSD and my case is before the Board of Veterans' Appeals-its been there for 2 yrs. I'm 62 now, deal with extreme depression and suicidal ideation everyday. I see a counselor at the Vets Center twice a month and a shrink once every 2 months-that is their PTSD plan for me. I'm a high-risk for suicide and on a Red Flag suicide status at the VA, which means that everytime I go in for something, the person seeing me has to ask me if I'm ...."having any suicidal thoughts today" if I say no they proceed with whatever procedure is scheduled. If I say yes they ask me if I have a plan. If I say yes to a plan, they will have me talk to an on-duty shrink and possibly commit me to VA Mental health ward for observation. They give me a ton of meds and tell me to call them or the Vets Suicide Hotline 800-273-TALK (8255) if I get serious about taking my own life or to go to the VA hospital emergency room 25 miles away. My good days are when I'm JUST extremely sad and no motivation or energy, and my bad days are when I'm trying to think of a good reason to stay alive to see the end of the day. And I'll tell you all something, when it gets bad it gets real bad and noone, me included, is going to stop to call the VA or anyone else when they have decided its time to end/stop the hurt. And although my mental health providers tell me its the VA beaucracy & backlog of cases that is responsible for the 7 yrs. I've been fighting the VA for a rating increase, I can't help but think that the VA is delaying in the hope that we vets die off of natural causes or self-inflicted wounds to save the $$$ because once the veteran is dead the rating compensation money stays right where it is. Surviving spouses, children, families don't get a dime. One reason I suppose I'm still here, to wait them out. I've seen my Compensation exam report from the VA Dr. and his report supports my claim. However, I do believe the VA strategy is deny, deny, deny and only those vets who are persistent will prevail.
So, to any vets out there contemplating suicide; fight the urge! Fight the VA! Don't let them beat you! Don't let them win!
My condolences & prayers to all those who have lost loved ones to war, and also to those who have lost loved ones to the Veterans Administration War-VAWAR.
To my friends who died in war or took their own lives in the VAWAR,
I think of you often,
I pray for you often that you may find peace
and
I continue the fight. Semper Fi dear friends.
Bluelake---we're on the same page. Why should anyone have to lose their house, file bankruptcy, etc just to pay for healthcare. "The Middle Man" is the insurance companies. Get rid of them--they're the ones that come between the doctor and patients. That word, "socialized" has been used as a nasty word---single payer universal healthcare for every US citizen--now!
Gunny-- I see you have found out that vet centers exist. I volunteer at one and I am pleased to work with "my guys"-- and I love every one of them. But I have found out the truth to the statement about leading the horse to water-- you have to WANT help before it will do any good, provided you actually GO for help.
My husband was in Nam, died of the result of Agent Orange. The V A hospital did all they could for him. I volunteered there for 20+ years. Also did a short stint at a state veterans' cemetery. I like dealing with live veterans rather than dead ones.
Susie, as a "peacetime" (but still VA-eligible) vet, thank you from all of us.
There should be no exceptions to the rule that one VA hospital does better than another. As President of the United States I would fix the VA and make it a model that even the Private sector would be proud of. Our veterans deserve better than how they are being treated. If they fought a war the way the government takes care of them after they return the United States would not exist. The military goes and fights your corrupt money grubbing politician wars so you can get richer and you dump them in the land fill. Shame on you Washington and all you corrupt politicians.
That's the reason the old bastards in Washington send other people's sons and daughters--not theirs. If they keep it up they will start a war and no one will participate.
So.... what is "new" about this news?
Vietnam Veterans were coming home from the Vietnam War with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome from combat. Many of them came home with injuries that were treated on the battlefield with morphine injection and ended up becoming addicts. Then one third of the homeless became war veterans while they waited for adequate mental health treatment. LBJ was happy to fight that war with other people's kids that were drafted, then Nixon was happy to send other people's kids while bombing the cr@p out of SE Asia. Many of the vets since then were exposed to Agent Orange and have died of cancer since then. Many have committed suicide.
Then Persian War vets started going through the same thing - PTSD, homeless, becoming part of the one third of the homeless, committing suicide when all services failed to make meaningful contact with them, etc... Then Afghanistan and Iraq War vets started showing up homeless on the streets, addicted to drugs, committing suicide, etc...
Our country has been more than happy to draft people into the armed services or have them volunteer to go fight our wars for us, but not wanting to take 100 percent responsibility for putting brave Americans in harm's way.
This gets particularly obnoxious when the political desk warriors that are so vehement for other people's kids going to war for them have never had the experience themselves. Bush got the rich white kids way out of Vietnam, Cheney got a deferment after 5 request, Rove weaselled his way out, Rush was 4F, etc... They were and are what we used to call "Chickenhawks."
And if we quit sending our troops into political quagmires we might be able to keep most of them well and in good mental health.
Susie 2.17
I thank you for and appreciate your helping guys at the Vet's Center. Regarding your comment:
"But I have found out the truth to the statement about leading the horse to water-- you have to WANT help before it will do any good, provided you actually GO for help."
I believe that is the point many contributers have made here today. The lack of response to vets' needs by the VA after the vets have actually GONE for help.
If you've done your homework to be able to better help vets with PTSD, you then know that one of the prevailing symptoms of PTSD, besides major depression is isolation, anger, flashbacks, reliving the psychic traumas a vet has experienced.....well, I could go on and on, but there is plenty of material on the internet explaining the symptoms of PTSD and why veterans sometimes isolate themselves to their own private hells, sometimes intensified by their treatment, or lack thereof, by the VA. In other words, some of the symptoms themselves prevent/cause veterans not to seek help.
The Veternas Administration, to its credit, does have info. on its website explaing in detail PTSD. I suggest more research to better serve the vets since you said:
" I am pleased to work with "my guys"-- and I love every one of them."
Try getting in touch with the homeless vets that have closed themselves off from society and work with them as I do.
Gunny
Whoever wrote that 3 mishandled cases is a non-issue obviously didn't read the whole article which stated, "Reinhardt noted, citing internal VA communications indicating that 18 veterans commit suicide every day." I'll repeat that, 18 veterans commit suicide every day. As the mother of a Marine and as an American, I am appalled that this has been going on for decades. Yeah, maybe the VA provides good medical health care but obviously it is seriously lacking in the area of mental health. I pray for my son's and our troops' mental and spiritual well-being.
The military needs to be proactive in getting counseling for all military personnel who see action before they shut down and closed themselves off from society. As soon as their boots set foot on US soil, if not sooner. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Please vote for me in your primary and general elections. I am a Marine Corp Vet. I did not serve in combat but I can see the way the VA treats its Veterans and I see the many stories of mistreatment and mismanagement by the VA Our men and women who PROUDLY serve deserve the best not the worst. I promise I will fix the VA. It will no longer be the BVA but the GVA. (BAD VET ADMIN) (GREAT VETERANS ADMINISTRATION). Something we can all be proud of. I can do it I know how. No foreign aid means money for veterans and social security. I read one time on one of newsvines post that foreign aid was not a freebie but only loans to other governments. That is a lie because no one has ever paid back one penny to our government. Now President Obama is pledging more money to Egypt while forgiving over a billion dollars in debt that they borrowed above and beyond the foreign aid we have given them. They weren't even paying the interest on that loan. I will stop giving our tax dollars to foreign governments and screwing our own American citizens.
18 suicides a day and 2-4 years to process a claim. This sounds like cases of incompetence that some fat old General should be able to address between golf matches.
Sorry, but this is a completely addressable problem and likely has little to do with money and a lot to do with administrators in certain positions who simply do not do their job.
Politicizing this issue is criminal.
Paul F you are all wrong; it is all about money; just contact Rep Bob Filner
its all about the budget; any new program has to be funded; and the way things are set up now; to keep the budget in balance the money has to be taken from some where else; remember we cant tax the rich or the companies that benefit from these wars. Maybe we could take away the money given to oil companies. But we dont and we wont!
Sandtrich-
I'm glad you've had good experience with the VA health system. However, I, like many others have not been as fortunate. I've been to several VA clinics is 3 states and have yet to receive good care. It took 20 years to get a diagnosis of PTSD from the VA. Until last October it was adjustment disorder. If you don't know what the issue is it is difficult to treat correctly. Knowing that something has been wrong over the last 2 decades, I have been seeing private doctors and paying for the care myself (which I'm all for) because I could pick my docs and counselors. Ones that I like and don't make me feel like I'm intruding on their facebook time. You see, private doctors have to see patients and keep patients to make a living; the VA docs don't have to do the same. So, is the idea of government run healthcare really a good idea? You take away the profit motive, you take away the docs need to treat patients well.
The VA system is phucked, but the military is worse. Upon our return from the gulf in 1991, we were sent back home and expected to live a normal life. Hey, this guy just killed dozens of people in the gulf two weeks ago, we should let him go home to his wife and daughter who he hasn't seen for seven months...should be no issues there! There were no after conflict evaluations. The military didn't connect soldiers coming back from the gulf with suicides or other destructive behavior as being related to the war. Seems pretty simple to me.
Simply because you're one of the ones who has had good care at the VA shouldn't give you the notion that government healthcare for all is a workable solution. I use private doctors for treatment that I could receive from the VA, but my mental health is more important to me than free care.
I am a veteran rated at 100% total & permanent disabled,now the madison v.a. is trying to fu-k me & my family over,through the office of inspector general office(gestapo)..why? because i fought for my benefits & won,and after the 10 year mark,the v.a tries everything in the book to take away your benefits,because they don't want your family getting heath care,education & other benefits that they get through the vet rated at 100%.....in other words.THEY TALK A GOOD GAME,BUT IN THE END THE RICH WILL NOT FIGHT(cheney,clinton,etc.)they send us peasants out to do their dirty work (all under the flag and their sense of freedom"greed")THE HELL WITH THE AMERICAN FIGHTING MAN & WOMAN!..........ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
"Mother Fights Government Over Life Insurance" on MSN Money. WTFWTFWTF, Come on people lets get behind this one. We give billions to absolutely nobody. This guys mother can't even get the insurance he set up before he went to Afghanistan and was killed there. Shameful. Come on U viners, this is one we can rally around TOGETHER.
POST 2.8
POST 2.1
Umm, a recent visit to our friends 'up north' revealed $2 cans of coke, $49 crappola blenders (3 speed Oster), $5.50+ gallon gas and the like. When I commented on the prices they simply said....
"That's the cost of 'free' healthcare." .....nouf' said.
http://drewrichards2000.newsvine.com/_news/2011/05/27/6734145-a-message-on-memorial-day
As a daughter of an ex-military father, whose mother works with military families every day, I find it atrocious how easy the Government can sweep aside the men and women who fight to keep this country safe. PTSD is very real, and it needs to be addressed almost as soon as those brave men and women set foot on American soil if not sooner, it not only affects them but their families. It's absolutely shameful the way that the Government is organized, almost as if it's better that soldiers die, because they don't want to deal with what to do when they come home.
To those that serve to protect our country, I thank you. You aren't alone.
Well said, Lyrica.
It is appalling, and support for our Governments long running neglect of these injured troops is unacceptable.
Which is the same for many, many issues ignored by Administration after Administration, regardless of an L or R by the name of the CIC.
Is anyone seeing the truth besides me?
When Your Government will send Your Sons and Daughters into harms way, for often untenable causes/reasons, and will not do ANYTHING to make sure they are cared for upon their return, how can ANYONE believe the Government is truly serving the American Citizen?
Peace, and Support Our Troops! There and Here!!
Blaming the Government is a bit off the mark. The problem begins with politicians, your Congressman and Senator, that send men and women to fight and die without any regard for the cost to those serving in the Military.
Until we start holding Congress accountable, they will continue to abuse the Military. Throw the bums out!
Jake - while you might have a point about holding Congress accountable -- don't forget Congress *IS* the government.
Congress, especially the Republicans these days, will try to cut funding - which for medical services to veterans, is grossly unfair. They'd throw the old folks under the bus, and vets haven't fared well to date, probably will get worse before it gets better.
Beth, Congress controls how money is spent by Federal Agencies, like the VA. Congress is the root cause of the majority of the failures, the Government is every agency, EPA, FEMA, DOD, etc.
Government isn't the problem, it's Congress. Does the VA have problems, yes, but Congress is broken.
Congress is Legislative, Military is Executive, both fall under Government. There is a failing in both areas for our men and women. One doesn't need to be blamed more then the other when they are both at fault for the mismanagement of our soldiers health care.
The judge said this is a systemic problem that has been ignored by congress and the president, he`s right.
If the military can`t live up to their end of the contract that they make with the new recruits, then they need to stop recruiting until they have a system in place to be able to fullfill their end of the contract.
If the VA was a private company it would have been shut down long ago by the courts.
BS Cassandra the Republican's don't cut spending for our service men and women your beloved Democrats do in fact your Messiah wants to cut their pay right now, so don't lie anymore.
Keep Partisanship off this blog. Blame BOTH PARTIES or no one at all.
Congress controls the money -- thus congress IS the government. The other agencies merely work for it.
wife - try a simple google to wade through your own bs....
....."The initial 1.9% pay raise proposal was quashed in light of voter backlash on excessive government spending and ballooning federal deficits. The 1.9% raise would cost $1.4 billion, $377 million more than a 1.4% hike, according to the CBO. Shown below are the 2011 military pay tables from the Defense Finance and Accounting Service"..... They will receive a 1.4% raise- pitiful, but get the whole story next time. The Navy site went on along a similar line:
...."On January 7, 2011, President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2011 (H.R. 6523) that provides a 1.4% increase for military pay, effective January 1, 2011. The raise should be noticed in January's first pay check.".... He would have approved more.
notsojingo
America currently accounts for 46.5 percent of the world's military spending with our closest rival being China at just 6.6 percent. we could cut our military spending in half and still be spending about three times more than our nearest rival. We have 737 military bases and facilities worldwide. We could close down most of them, as Ron Paul has already proposed. We have two unfunded multi trillion dollar quagmires in the Mideast we would close down ASAP. General Petraeus just advocated that for Afghanistan. The Democrats are now advocating shutting down both quagmires ASAP.
The one thing that should not ever be cut back is taking care of our vets 100 percent.
So, the real question is why is the VA seemingly unable to handle the lastest influx of military personnel with post-combat mental health issues? VA physicians have been screaming about being understaffed and underfunded for YEARS. Perhaps you all screaming for cuts in "social" programs should rethink your positions. By the way it's not just VA patients who suffer. I think this tragedy argues FOR a single payer system where there is funding for enough physicians and other healthcare workers to take care of the increased number of patients on the streets because lack of adequate mental health care.
Whoever wrote that 3 mishandled cases is a non-issue obviously didn't read the whole article which stated, "Reinhardt noted, citing internal VA communications indicating that 18 veterans commit suicide every day." I'll repeat that, 18 veterans commit suicide every day. As the mother of a Marine and as an American, I am appalled that this has been going on for decades. Yeah, maybe the VA provides good medical health care but obviously it is seriously lacking in the area of mental health. I pray for my son's and our troops' mental and spiritual well-being.
The military needs to be proactive in getting counseling for all military personnel who see action before they shut down and closed themselves off from society. As soon as their boots set foot on US soil, if not sooner. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Congress does not control how the money is spent they only allocate it in a budget. The various cabinet positions under the President determine how it is to be spent. They submit their budget request to the President and he submits the entire package to congress. Then congress either takes a hatchet to it or pads it to suit themselves. After passage the President either signs it or vetoes it. After it is signed by the President the Treasury Department disburses the allocated funds to each ADMINISTRATIVE office to do with as ask for. Some of the cabinet offices are the D.O.D., Dept of the Interior, The State Dept., Dept. of Labor, the Treasury dept., etc. President Harry S. Truman had a sign on his desk, that read. "THE BUCK STOPS HERE.". The President is as much to blame as the congress, and that is a fact.
One thing that is not addressed--why does the military not treat their personnel in military hospitals as opposed to discharging them and dumping them into the Veterans Administration's lap? I know the answer. They would have to continue to keep the personnel on the "payroll". The way that the process works, the defense budget appears a tad less huge that it is.
How horrible. If 18 soldiers were killed every day in Afghanistan it would surely make headlines. Clearly the war zone has been extended.
Some right-wingers call the V.A. a part of "Obamacare" that they want to see disappear. They say they support the troops, though. They believe they can have it both ways, support the troops, yet deprive them of health care. They call public sector health care for our troops, "socialist."
I suppose that cutting back on the VA budget is one of the many ways the right-wing wants Americans to pay for the Republican tea Party's proposed tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy.
I recall some years ago during the G.W. Bush Administration, how much of the right-wing in Congress voted against extending additional educational benefits for our troops, remember that?
McCain and Bush (and other Republicans) Reject Education Benefits Bill for U.S. Soldiers
usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/NewGIBill.htm
And here's other issues of how our troops were shortchanged, under G.W. Bush:
www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=us_military_s_treatment_of_us_troops
People talk big about "supporting our troops," but this is an area where the veterans really need their fellow Americans to step up and put action behind their words.
However, the mismanagement of these mental health related benefits does NOT mean that universal health care can't work. It takes planning and vigilance, but it is not impossible. And I truly believe that the good would far outweigh the bad. It's usually the people who don't have serious health needs that aren't being addressed because of financial issues who are against the idea of universal health care.
spacey,
Yes, because clearly Govt h/c is working so well for Vets, a tiny fraction of Americans, that we should let Govt oversee 300 million people's h/c.
And just forget all the decades that Govt has had to make Soc Sec / Medicare function properly. That's worked out beautifully too, huh?
This is about Injured Veterans and Active Duty Soldiers.
Get off your partisan soapbox. This crosses the line, as BOTH PARTIES ARE COMPLICIT IN IGNORING THE NEEDS OF OUR TROOPS!
Thank You, Starkydoo.
starkydoo- well the healthcare system doesn't work now so it may very well be an improvement.
We have totally neglected our brave veterans and should be ashamed. They have given so much. They should be at the front of the line for healthcare - always.
Thank each of you for what you have done for our country.
W. Goin,
So, it makes sense for Govt to oversee everyone's health care when they fail at handling a small fraction. Yea ~ okay .. that makes a whole lotta sense
There are NOW in FACT 2/3 of CORPORATIONS in AMERICA !
Don't PAY ANY FEDERAL INCOME TAX,,
2008 Government Accountability Office Report!
You WON'T Hear THIS on FOX or ANY GOP Site!
Corporations SKIRT This Issue CLAIMING They Pay STATE & LOCAL TAXES?
A CLAIM That is FREQUENTLY UNTRUE.
Parochially and Federally, Corporations are paying FEWER TAXES THAN EVER.
Corporate income tax payments made up fewer than EVER!
Corporate Income tax payments made up ONLY 5.4% .
Of TOTAL State tax collections last year.
DOWN from 10% in 1980.
I have $1 Buck in my wallet.
That's MORE than the combined INCOME TAX LIABILITY of ,
G.E., EXXON MOBIL, CITIBANK, and BANK of AMERICA.
That Means SOMEBODY is GAMING the SYSTEM !
The Nation, May, 30, 2011
ALMOST ALL == GOP BUDGET CUT / WEALTHY Tax CUTS & BREAKS )Included
There is Why There is NOT any INCOME Coming INTO he TREASURY!
The FILTHY RICH are PAYING ( NOTHING )
When They Shold CONTRIBUTE BILLIONS & BILLIONS !
And You GOP SHeep Run and FLY Around HATING Individuals for a COUPLE MILLION!
starkydoo - your entire post makes no sense. It has been proved in many countries that universal health care works. We do not have enough attention paid to the veterans. If we did, the care would improve. Our current healthcare system is broken and needs fixing. The proposed Universal program is a good one.
Does it seem like the Medicare and Tricare (military) programs "don't work"? Before comparing them to private health care, which is run "for profit", consider this.
HMOs love Medicare, Tricare, Workers Comp, and Medicaid - because HMOs can deny coverage to the old/sick/injured. The HMOs CHERRY PICK the population with the least of these worries, and the taxpayer - you and me - SUBSIDIZES their bottom line.
While HMO CEOs and management make MILLIONs in both salary and stock options, money that could be spent for health care instead of pencil pushers, the taxpayer gets to pay for unfunded medical expenses of the old/sick/injured. Works out just great for the HMOs.
We need a health care option, sort of a "medicare for all", NOT FREE, but a single payer to get rid of the pencil pushers. Their clerks will simply do the same job as they do now, what a Medicare clerk/claims processor does now, across the country.
Until we, as a society, are willing to let a bleeding child die on the sidewalk in front of the ER because they have NO insurance - the taxpayer will subsidize those who "choose" not to carry health insurance. No skin off the HMOs, they don't have to pay for the uninsured, not a problem for their profit margin.
Actually....Wasn't France thinking about scrapping parts of it's Universal healthcare? Because they can't afford a lot of it anymore?
Yes, but unfortunately, Ultralibs brains malfunction when presented with facts, so be prepared to be called names for bringing that fact to light, Mike.
Cassandra more untruths we do pay for tricare you know it's not "free"
Cassandra,
You are all wet, HMO's only run a small fraction of Medicare, that was a proposal set up by President Bush called Medicare Advantage, it is designed to bankrupt Medicare and then in turn Social Security.
Social Security is not in difficulty and an increase of a mere 1% that is .5% by employees and .5% by employers will assure this fund is good into the next century. It now has an excess of $2.3 Trillion in reserve and now gaining. The sky is not falling. Medicare does require additional funding to finance the Medicare Advantage plan that was passed into law without funding at all.
I long ago became sick and tired of hearing people say that being against a pointless war is “not supporting our troops”!
The job of a soldier is a difficult and honorable one. That job is to defend their country against enemies who would destroy it. That job includes the obligation to follow the orders one is given. One fights where one is ordered to fight. In a democracy, the decision to send out a nation’s military to do battle lies with the elected leaders of that nation. Any disagreement with the idea that a particular war needs to be waged is a disagreement with those leaders, NOT with the troops who must ultimately perform the task!
Supporting our troops is giving them the best training, the best equipment and the best weapons so that they can perform their very difficult task with the least risk of injury and death to themselves and their comrades.
Supporting our troops is giving the best medical care possible if they are injured, in the best medical facilities at the hands of well trained medical personnel.
Supporting our troops is paying heed to their physical and psychological conditions when they return home with wounds to their bodies and minds that may not be readily observable; not trying to deny that those injuries exist in order to save money.
Supporting our troops means helping them financially by providing them with the benefits of further education and decent pensions for themselves and their families if they are crippled or killed.
Most importantly of all, supporting our troops is not sending them out to be maimed or killed in pointless conflicts waged under a fabric of lies so that a handful of greedy and selfish individuals can amass financial rewards at the expense of their noble sacrifice! To do this last thing is in fact the very antithesis of supporting our troops; it is in fact a betrayal of their confidence that we would never ask them to potentially make the ultimate sacrifice for their country without good reason.
Carnelian #4.12
You are 100 % correct. I could not have put it any better than you have.
Gunny, Semper Fi
wife - yeah, and that's what I said in line 9. NOT FREE. More bs, as in my reply to you up there in 3.11 comment.
It's obvious you like to parrot those who do not like the current prez. Oh well.
Sully - Right, HMOs have very little to do with public insurance plans - they like it like that. We the taxpayer get to pick up the tab for a deficit in Medicare/Medicaid (Medicaid is on the back of Medicare) - the HMOs don't want the old people, and certainly not the sick or injured.
Everyone needs to be paying into the healthcare kitty, or else, die on the sidewalk. Of course, we won't allow anyone to die on the sidewalk. Make everyone pay. Otherwise, I may as well quit paying mine, and let the taxpayer suck it up if I get SO sick I just have to go to the ER.
There is a big difference between World War II and the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars. We were attacked by the Japanese to start WW II, so it was a war for national survival. We were attacked on 9/11 so that relates directly to invading Afghanistan to go after Al Qaeda.
However, that mission should have been clearly defined from start to finish as an attack directly upon the Al Qaeda leadership. That would have looked like a fast moving military assault to go after the Al Qaeda leadership with overwhelming air support and the Pakistan border sealed off. The border being sealed off should have been a no brainer. After killing or capturing the Al Qaeda leadership LEAVE. Our mission was not initially to go after the Taliban, create a new government stay for years of reconstructing the country and spending trillions of dollars.
The military hates quagmires like Vietnam where there is mission drift. It happened again in Afghanistan, then the mission drifted into Iraq, a country completely uninvolved in 9/11, international terrorism or Al Qaeda. Once we were in Iraq, Afghanistan was under resourced - the resources diverted to Iraq. I guess it boils down to someone within the military to call it the way they see it. If it is a quagmire we are getting into, the political desk warriors need to get removed from the war decisions.
Most of us thought we were in the Mideast for payback, then we hear it is because we want to spread democracy to the Mideast. If you are a "grunt" on the battlefield getting shot at, how do you feel about Vanna White explaining to you what's behind door number two?
Unconscionable! Let's take a big chunk of that money earmarked for Pakistan and put it where it would actually do some good.
"Reinhardt noted, citing internal VA communications indicating that 18 veterans commit suicide every day." I'll repeat that, 18 veterans commit suicide every day. As the mother of a Marine and as an American, I am appalled that this has been going on for decades. Yeah, maybe the VA provides good medical health care but obviously it is seriously lacking in the area of mental health. I pray for my son's and our troops' mental and spiritual well-being.
The military needs to be proactive in getting counseling for all military personnel who see action before they shut down and closed themselves off from society. As soon as their boots set foot on US soil, if not sooner. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
"Mother Fights Government Over Life Insurance" on MSN Money. WTFWTFWTF, Come on people lets get behind this one. We give billions to absolutely nobody. This guys mother can't even get the insurance he set up before he went to Afghanistan and was killed there. Shameful. Come on U viners, this is one we can rally around TOGETHER.
Rich man's war. Poor man's blood.
Always, my friend.
Always.
Common Sense so true This is just the tip of the iceburg at how our government has sold us out.
War has ALWAYS been that way, probably always WILL be that way. It's not just true in the U.S. but all over the world.
(Even our enemies subscribe to that theory -- you think suicide bombers are wealthy and powerful? No, they are the dregs of society.)
At some point, the officer corps were the elite and rich -- but not even that any more. With all the ROTC scholarships and other ways of becoming an officer, more and more come from the poorer sections of society. When the economy becomes depressed, the military becomes the home to even MORE of the poor.
Why don't people realize that, Common Sense?
Reading all the these comments leads me to believe that the civilian world is completely and utterly ignorant to the type of people who serve in the United States Military.
The belief that people join the military seeking something, rather than joining to give something, is one of the highest forms of disrespect I can possibly think of. Do some people join because of economic reasons? Yes. But those people are rare, and they rarely stay in for more then their required first contract.
Each and everyone of you today, whether it be intentional or unintentional, has insulted our service members. I would write a lengthier more thought out response to each and everyone of you, but reading your comments has irritated me to the extent that I would most likely get suspended or banned from this forum.
Just know that the military takes people in from all walks of society, rich and poor.
Agreed 100%. The poor will always be used as scraps for the rich, I can only hope that changes.
USMCBrat- I completely agree, they call our brave men and women fools for joining yet I don't see them ready to stand and fight for our country, they just like being armchair warriors sitting around and talking sh*t about those who ARE willing to do it.
Who ever calls them 'fools' be damned.
Do NOT confuse the few with the many.
Oh and just for laughs I went and did some research on demographics of those who serve in the Military:
Based on income: Middle-income quintile zip code areas provided consistently higher proportions of recruits. Areas in the lowest income-quintile provided disproportionately low numbers of recruits. Areas in the highest-income quintile provided the greatest proportional increase of recruits after 9/11.
Based on education: 98% of recruits have a high school education or higher, compared to 75% of non-recruits. High school graduation rates were higher for recruits than the local population in every three digit ZCTA. The average education level of recruits increased after 9/11, with 2.8% more enlistees joining who already had some college or a college degree.
So you see? We aren't all poor stupid slobs who need your friggin pity. Many of us could have gone on to do other things with our lives (I personally could have been a zoologist) but we CHOOSE to serve our country because we heard a special calling. A calling none of you will hear, nor will ever understand, and for that I pity you.
Most veterans today are above average income and education and we volunteered.
WSMCBrat I don't know to which remarks you refer to but when I agreed with Common Sense it is because I can see that wars benefit the rich not the poor. The economy has made many middle class Americans poor. Tent cities are beginning to crop up all over this country. People can't afford insurance. They are losing their jobs while billions are sent overseas to Muslim countries that would slit our throats if they could. Hopefully you can see that the government has sold us out. I think the government also let down this brave soldier who took his own life. They did not give him the help that should have been given to him. Our government has sold us out. They don't care about the brave men and women in this country who risk their lives everyday for this country they care about votes and big busness. One of my friends son is in the military two tours in the MIddle East. He is a fine young man and so far has not been injured. He has an exceptional mother who has stood by him throughout all of this. However there are times when she curls up into a ball and has a panic attack. He does not know this because for him she will be strong. God bless you and keep you safe.
I'm an Air Force brat and I truly believe it takes a certain level of intelligence and honor to give of your self to our military. I myself didn't serve but I saw that all our fathers no matter their race creed or color all bled the same. My realization though is that in the last 60 years the battle for the survival of the Dollar has been at the root of many of the conflicts. Our Dollar has a wrongful conatation about it today and truly needs it's honor and spiritual nature restored. I hope some type of reclamation program is adapted for soldiers that return so as to ease their reentry. How any one can think you can go from horrors of realty to the fantasy of peace is beyond me.
and always has been true. see Kipling's 'Thomas Atkins'
i believe this poem is the source of the british soldiers nickname of 'tommie'
I'm a daughter/sister/wife of a military person, and you call yourself fight for freedom? you just sat there and belittled our brave men and women with your tent city theory. You know what? F*ck you, you're wrong you need to research a little better than whatever the first thing google gives you pops up.
My husband serves because "someone has to" that's his answer every single time, so you X-box generation kids should learn what it takes to be a REAL man/woman. life isn't a video game.
All wars are.
1SGFitzsWife4ID..... First off, before you get your dander up, I am former military/medical/chief law officer. Did a tour 71-72 as an assistant medical specialist (E-6) when our groups name changed from CCN to TF1AE, (MAC-V SOG).
You are part right and part wrong. I went RA because I felt it was my duty to my country. Did I intend to stay in for life (lifer), no. Some guys get in and like it. Some just do their time. Most of the troops that I knew during those days came from poor or lower middle class (blue collar or farm) families. The only ones that I saw that came from upper middle class or college background were officers. Many of the people you see posting on here come from that era. I remember reading stats years ago that said the average age of the Vietnam particapant was 19yrs old. I was 20-21 during my tour and had enlisted at 17. Myself, after what I had seen and done, I was glad to finish my enlistment and even happier to finish my reserve duty.
I don't know how we always seem to get off subject on these threads, but I thought we were talking about VA care for mental disabilities. I don't know if you or your husband have ever been to a VA hospital, but most of the ones I worked at and have visited, lack the staff and equipment to function at the level that our veterans deserve.
I don't see where the guy that calls himself fightforfreedom has insulted our service people. He/she is just expressing their views as they see them. They could be someone from my generation. I've heard that today's military has changed. I don't know first hand, but the last time I was in a VA hospital, if those young guys that were being treated were from wealthy families, you sure could have fooled me. I kind of got the idea that although they seemed to be better educated, they still came from lower middle to poor class families. (I judged this by the clothes and shoes worn by parents and family members that visited them.) I didn't see very many Lamborghini's in the parking lot.
i was in the military (the navy) and it does not take much time to learn how our government makes it a priority to do anything they can to provide u with the least amount of medical possible and will look for anything and everything to strip u of your benefits or medical care if they can. Our government also knew that gulf war syndrome was caused by chemical weapons put into the burning oil fields once Saddam knew we were going to control them.
Nope -- you'll find a great many of us who commented on the military and being poor (or at least not rich) served ourselves. We KNOW who we served with and who we were. The military offers great opportunities for advancement ... otherwise unavailable.
Joining for patriotism AND opportunity are NOT mutually exclusive!
Owen, I would agree that a GREAT MANY veterans today are above average income and education -- but were they that way when ENTERING the service? OR did they do well and take advantage of what the service had to offer them?
(Note: The reason I say "a great many" as opposed to "most" are there are a sizable number of veterans who are homeless.)
I guess the last few posters completely ignored the data I posted on RECRUITS coming from higher income and higher educated families. Meaning that people from those demographics are joining the military.
I can relate, having waited 6 years for my disability decision.
I know exactly what you mean. When I finally went before a judge, he said he didn't understand why I wasn't approved before, as it was obvious that I was disabled.
Just makes you wonder.
Cassandra, you said "We need a health care option, sort of a 'medicare for all,' NOT FREE . . ." You do know that Medicare isn't free, don't you? I pay monthly premiums which go up anually, unlike our disability benefits.
This whole situation is so sad--it's hard to believe we treat our vets so badly. The question is, what can we non-vets do to help?
For what it's worth, thank you very much for your service.
I am just wondering what your claim is for? You don't have to get into it I just have a hard time with hearing that claims take this long for OIF/OEF veterans if you were combat wounded.
VA strategy for dealing with Vets with PTSD:
DENY, DENY, DENY UNTIL THEY DIE!
Gunny, Semper Fi!
"Mother Fights Government Over Life Insurance" on MSN Money. WTFWTFWTF, Come on people lets get behind this one. We give billions to absolutely nobody. This guys mother can't even get the insurance he set up before he went to Afghanistan and was killed there. Shameful. Come on U viners, this is one we can rally around TOGETHER.
Combat changes you forever. Nightmares, flashbacks are nightly reminders of the stress of combat. The VA needs to step up to the plate and support combat veterans who continue to fight for understanding and benefits.
Now Iraq and Afghanistan have priority over all others, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. If you think getting service is slow for the current vets you should try being the other groups. If a Iraqi vet waits 6 months, a Vietnam vet waits a year. Even if you have an agent orange problem that the VA has recognized as service connected. They(VA) hope that all of us will die and go away, then they will have a quite day.
And I find that deplorable tim, you forgot to also mention gulf war syndrome which they're finding more and more of, I find it disgusting that y'all are willing to die for our country yet once you're out you go on the back burner
I am VERY sorry for the loss of her son .As a viet nam vet I know all to well the grief placed upon the families of those in need . I would like to start by saying that this same message keeps popping up and the media plays with it . The BUSH administration called all disabled veterans BLOOD SUCKING LEACHES (EXACT WORDS) now our COMANDER IN CHIEF SAYS WE ARE A DRAIN on the nation WELL TO HE3LL WITH THE WHOLE GOVERNMENT AND VETERANS ADMINISTRATION . It is so d^mn pittifull that people who run this crap have never served in battle . H3ll OBURMA has not idea what his duties are . Damn the veterans full speed ahead making wars to keep the military industry happy and more money( CAMPAIN CONTRIBUTIONS) comeing home to daddy . I recently spent 5.5 hrs just getting a blood drawn for cumedan
lee - I have never heard President Obama say veterans are a drain on the nation. President Obama clearly knows what his duties are and is working to do them well. That said, we need to do much more for the men and women who have served our country. Much more.
How long must he be in office before he solves at least ONE PROBLEM? Hmmm?
Your pants are down, and your Partisanship is hanging out.
It is embarrassing.
Not Partisan. I just cannot stand ineffectiveness.........anywhere. Nothing but talk. Can you say otherwise?
You might want to hang that do nothing label on the Repubs in the Senate. A record 112 filibusters last year and 40+ so far this year. The previous record was 58. I became a left leaning Ind. after McConnell stated the #1 priority for the Repubs was to make President Obama a 1 term president. Not the debt, the deficit, the wars, health care, the infrastructure, etc. Not a damn thing for the benefit of the country. Just partisan politics. Defend that stance if you can.
Saywhat- that has what to do with soldiers? I know you dems love it when they're willing to fight and die for you but God forbid something happen to them right?
Absolutely nothing just like the comment I replied to.
(How long must he be in office before he solves at least ONE PROBLEM? Hmmm?)
Not too many folks being true to the thread if you haven't noticed. I already spoke my piece for my fellow Vets and current soldiers (see 2.5) I get satisfactory care at my local Va clinic and the hospital in Omaha. It's sad to know that some Vets are not. More needs to be done to support them. And I'm not a Dem, just leaning that way right now, because what I said is the truth.
Unless the filibusters were against funding something to improve veterans' health care, they are totally imperteinent to this thread. Why doesnt' someone with all of this purported knowledge which I lack name names as which pols, of either party are opposed to funding vets' health care so that they can be targeted for defeat in the fall of 2012 by us contributing to those who are running against them who don't feel that way?
Actually Lee Hamre, that was Allan Simpson, retired senator from Wyoming that said "...now our COMANDER IN CHIEF SAYS WE ARE A DRAIN on the nation..." He also made the blood sucking leeches remark as well.
Gunny, Semper Fi
Sorry, my post above was mixed up.
It was retired Republican senator Allen Simpson who said Veterans were a drain on the country not Obama.
Simpson also called us blood sucking leeches.
Gunny, Semper FI!
This is no surprise to me and has been going on for years but just covered up. I am a 100% disabled vet (Viet Nam) and can write a book about VA neglect and incompetency.
Look out people, this is my "foam at the mouth" subject. Hey, Mart, yep, same as you, soldier.
First off, every combat soldier, KNOWS, that they are expendable, period, at any given time.
Secondly, everyone, everyone, in a combat theater (that's what they call it, a theater) is a potential target. Friendly fire, happens ALL THE TIME.
Thirdly, so called "Friendlys" can be an enemy combatant (even little kids) and can kill you.
Four, most people at "home" really don't give a @!$%# if you get blown up, or messed up.
Five, the "government" doesn't care, (see number four)
Six, you have to be really messed up to get sent home.
Seven, you have to "prove" how messed up you are, BEFORE you get any compensation.
Eight, your combat injured/PTSD friends, probably will never be President, even dogcatcher, and will spend most of their life going to the VA and will "check out" but can never leave. (Eagles)
Nine, "True PTSD" is not curable, somewhat treatable; and if you really have it, you can't even trust your own judgement.
Ten, Meds. Only a few meds actually help. Mostly benzodiazepines, Ativan and Halcion (which you will have to beg for) to stop anxiety and sleep. Beta blockers (atenolol) for adrenaline rushes, and Prazosin for nightmares. Most of the others, just mess you up more.
Sorry, the good boys go to war and come home messed up, the retards become the leaders and we end up withIdiocracy.
Why don't you? It's time all this crap was brought to the attention of everyone. It's time we wrote our Representatives and asked them what they are doing for our service people. It's time they spoke up and told the truth (if they are able to recognize it).
Amen brother.
#4 - I don't think that is true - more like most people really don't know what is going on unless they have someone in their family that served. Of course, we've lived in a couple military towns, so maybe are more aware. Something has got to be done.
Cassandra...................>Like outlaw wars?
Well, ok - how about that, unless they attack our actual shores first?
Doesn't help much with the stupid terrorists tho', and these days it's unlikely any one country would outright just try a sneak attack.
Surveys repeatedly show that people are happiest with their care through the VA and through medicare despite all the complaining people do. The VA in particular supports a very large, and increasing population that ranges from the very old to the 20 something. They do it on comparatively little budget which is entirely controlled by Congress.
Pertaining to mental health specifically..... let`s get real. Mental health care in America is a joke. A very sad, unfunny joke. It is inadequate from start to finish. I had not fully appreciated it until a friend just spent the last six months working with someone to get them care, them to stick with the care, get doctors and mental health professionals to talk to each other, and the list goes on. And this was all on the civilian side. You certainly cannot expect it to be any better in the VA.
As for the delay on disability? Wasn`t it just last year that everyone was complaining that the VA was getting scammed by people claiming to have PTSD and there were no standards, yada, yada, yada.
Here's the thing: it's NEVER as simple as we want it to be. The VA is tasked with caring for rapidly-increasing numbers of people, and is plagued with inefficiency and bureaucratic red tape. Why? Several reasons: 1. It's a VERY large organization. 2. Without enormous pressure to change, very large organizations tend to stagnate in their policies and procedures. Things get added, but not removed. 3. There's a lot of money on the table: psych meds are expensive, full disability benefits are expensive (particularly when you're looking at providing them for several decades), full staffing of docs and nurses and clinics are expensive to maintain. Mental health care, done right, is EXPENSIVE. (And a money-losing enterprise in today's world, which is why there's never enough access or options in the civilian side either.) 4. Let's be honest: there are definitely people who try to game the system. I've seen them. People who approve disability know this, and mental health disability is harder to demonstrate than physical disability.
The good thing that can come out of this ruling, assuming that the VA and the government act on the mandate rather than appeal it up the chain, is that the system CAN become more efficient and effective. It takes a lot of time (read: years). Also commitment, because it's a painful process while you're living it. But it can be done. What does help, however, is a strong, ongoing public support for EFFICIENCY and EFFECTIVE ACCESS to high-quality care.
Which means that the public will, as a whole, have to change a few things about its behavior. Stigmatizing those with mental illnesses (and PTSD qualifies) needs to become a thing of the past. (Remember when people with epilepsy used to be labeled demon-possessed and exorcised or committed to state hospitals for the rest of their lives? No? That's because society figured out that there's a medical explanation quite some time ago, and largely quit stigmatizing people who happen to have a seizure disorder.) The public will also have to decide that they are willing to support decent mental health care. Private companies don't like to do it, because it DOES NOT make money for them. And the public will have to remain vocal about the issue, even when it's not in the news. I'm not certain the American public is ready to take on those changes just yet.
Kelcy,
When you realize that the number one provider of services to the mentally ill is our penal system, it is enough to break your heart. Just spend time in any Emergency Department waiting room or speak to a police officer who often has to transport the patients and it can be a true reality check.
There is a crisis regarding this population here in the United States, primarily due to the fact that they don't vote and secondly because they don't hire expensive lobbyists to advance their cause.
Here's a great example of just how the republican government thinks health-care should be provided: as little as possible. If this is how the government wants to treat our heros, the bravest and brightest among us, imagine how they want to treat an ordinary citizen? Not at all. This is beyond disgusting, more than just another embarassment to the US, it is criminal, but the only ones who will 'pay' for it are the victims. And this is hardly a new problem! The lack of even low-level care for our veterans dates back to the civil war and maybe even further! Like I said, beyond disgusting.
Sam, if you had an ounce of anything as grey matter: you would know the Health Kill Bill is a template from the US Post office: get over having not been allowed on the see-saw when you were a kid.
READ history and legislation before you stick your foot up you a S
There are over 165 E X E M P T I O NS to paying in or go to jail: one is by your illustrious Kenyan god king for the entire MUSLIM in the USA!
See who and what the others are: $500 BILLION was removed from MEDICARE by the same.
READ THE BILL
Then we have ILLEGALS still not denied!
Shove your ignorance up--Ignorance kills!
You are why the Communist CHinese own the USAlll
.....this had to be overlooked and encouraged by both sides of the aisle. Stop being a partisan hack, lumping all blame onto one side while bending over to get raped by your own with a smile on your face...
Don't blame the Republicans. It is a national disgrace. The Dems ruled Congress for many, many years and did nothing. Now we have another administration who ignores the wants and needs of the American people whilst gallivanting all over the world, shaking hands, apologizing and generally embarrassing us. What does it take?
THANK YOU!!!!!
Dem's,Rep's make no difference they all have lip service to the vet's. has been this way since the Civil War. Politics has no bearing on the results of the VA. They all suck.
"Mother Fights Government Over Life Insurance" on MSN Money. WTFWTFWTF, Come on people lets get behind this one. We give billions to absolutely nobody. This guys mother can't even get the insurance he set up before he went to Afghanistan and was killed there. Shameful. Come on U viners, this is one we can rally around TOGETHER.
This is probably our biggest national shame. Anyone who serves our country in the military should have full benifits, eductation, and physical/mental health care for free. Period.
We should all feel shame for not holding our government accountable for NOT providing these services to those who sacrifice their lives in service to our country.
To any service man & woman reading this, I thank you for your service and hope we can find better ways as individuals AND as a country to honor your serivce.
TheDD - could not agree more.
Right behind or tied with the fact Our Government sends these Troops into unneccessary conflict again and again in the first place.
Only to ignore their needs and injuries from fighting for the Corporate/Military Industrial Complex.
Shame
Try this;
The stories about the VA hospitals, appointments and getting care are so very conflicting. Military folks getting the rap for not providing for their fellow warriors, is this true? I tend to think that is bull sh-t. Where can we find the truth in this matter? Is there anything like truth in this matter? The VA system is very expensive and if in fact that department is the problem then it should be eliminated and all service men who come home and discharged should be automatically enrolled in Medicare immediately and free, with the 20% gap insurance covered as part of the amount of disability incurred. Then the amounts of disability can be reassessed as time goes on, rather than at the beginning. It is harder to take an established plan away than get one after the fact, or as has been shown in this case, dead. At least there would be no delay getting that assistance and close to home if that is what the Vet wants. I do think that if all Americans were in the same boat we would get some attention. Or make a real racket if nothing else. The separate health care plans separate us, and divided we, all Americans will fall.
I think there is too much smoke that we can't see the fire coming out of the VA System. I don't care a hoot what civilian folks are hurt from such a move. We have an obligation to the young men and women coming home with destroyed minds and bodies. Even one more suicide like we read about in this article and one more struggle, to get the help we have promised these people, will be too many. This is so sad, I am a NAM era Vet, and my civilian Medicare coverage covers me. I never asked anything for myself, but I cry for the way the Military portion of MY Govt. treats its obligations towards our current Veterans.
Our Vets have more than paid their dues as Americans. Are civilian employees at the VA to fault? Or are ex-military people to fault? Certainly someone is! If they can't handle the load hire more, but don't just blame the government it is a nonhuman participant. Blame the humans involved, not the inanimate object. You will argue that Congress is a human element, but I stand by my words.
God bless these brave people that put themselves voluntarily, at our Governments orders into harm’s way for our sake.
Everyone should be able to enroll in Medicare - for vets to go in free works for me - they would be paid under Tricare anyway, going to the taxpayer well. But the average person, such as myself, would pay.
My family of 4 pays nearly $12k a year, the company pays half, to a blood sucking HMO. Let us pay $12k to Medicare-for-all (single payer) - works for me. And I don't have to subsidize the bank account of the HMO CEO and management.
My dad, a Vietnam Vet, has been waiting 16 months on a re-evaluation of his PTSD disability from serving in Vietnam. I hear good things about the VA system, but for mental health issues, they seem to not even know that mental health issues exist. The President and Congress should be taking the lead on this. You have to fight the system for benefits to which you should be entitled. This article sums up quite nicely what is being done to our vets. They shouldn't have to commit suicide to get attention. Shame on the VA.
Exactly!
They treat us like we`re some kind of free loaders looking for a handout and trying to scam them out of something we don`t deserve. They were quick to make a lot of promises when they needed our service,but just as quick to forget all those promises when they no longer need us.
I would have to agree with both of you. My husband is Nam Vet and when we tried to get for him it was like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. We finally just bit the bullet and went to a private Doctor. Forget trying to get any money back, they sure get mad when you do that. He had come other problems come up and we went to the VA for help and that was 6 months ago so once again we are at a private Doctor only now we have private insurance through his employer. Those of you who are getting help from the VA great I hope that it continues. Those who are waiting think about a private Doctor you can't afford to put things off. As always just my opinion.
NB- I couldn't agree with you more. I find it disgusting that it's almost taboo for ya'll to ask for help, I find it disgusting that the armchair warriors think you don't "deserve" it I find it disgusting that people are trying to make it political, you were WILLING to give your life for my country, you should be given the best of everything.
I believe we just had a "suicide by cop" by a newly returned vet here in Tucson. And for even more fun, the SWAT team managed to use 71 rounds to kill this man who never fired his rifle. It's a big mess.
I think these swat teams love these stand off's so they can target practice. Why else would it take 71 rounds to kill this guy? Given enough time the guy would have probably surrendered.
Sane Central...I think what happened in Tucson was not "Suicide by cop" but instead murder by SWAT team. The dude just got off his shift at work and also had the common sense to have his family go in the closet. And of course they were serving a warrant (which they didn't find anything). Suicide by cop is when a person goes out looking to get killed he this poor guy was just chillin at home.
Tarzan7 - what a ridiculous post. The men and women of the swat teams NEVER want to have to fire. Just like anyone else, there are repercussions for them when they have to take a life. But, when someone is threatened and they feel there is no option, as many as "have a shot" shoot. Just hope you never need to have them support you. And, they don't shoot until all options have been tried and there is a life at risk.
It's a Shame and it is Disgusting. These soldiers are deployed, come back after their tour of duty, are deployed again, come back, are deployed again, it's like playing Russian Roulette with our soldiers. No wonder they have mental problems. Ten years fighting these wars is ENOUGH. People have to get out and really Protest. Until that happens men will continue to be Killed for nothing and some of them will be mentally unstable for the rest of their lives. AND in the meantime some of the Banks were taking advantage of our men and Foreclosing on their homes while they were fighting the war. THAT is Disgusting also.
Let's not forget the women who are serving our country as well. On this Memorial Day weekend find a military member and thank him or her for their service to our great country. We all need to stand together and do something to help take care of all our military members.
Thank you from an AF member currently serving in Iraq, the wife of an AF member currently serving in Iraq, the Mom of a recently discharge combat Army vet and Mom of an AF member. It truly is my whole family involved in this issue!
Cindee-- a BIG thanks to all our active duty personnel and VETERANS this Memorial Day weekend.
Thank you for your service-- from the daughter of TWO veterans (one WW1, one WW1 and WW2, a POW for 39 months), the mother of a deceased veteran, the mother-in-law of a veteran, the widow of a Nam veteran and the grandmother of an active duty soldier.
It is sad our Veterans have to wait for treatment of PTSD. Upon returning from a war zone all veterans should be immediately be screened for PTSD and treated for this devastating condition. If you need help Veterans, call your congressman and let them know the problems you are having getting an appointment. Don't suffer in silence, the news media can also help, don't be afraid to call and report delays. You earned the right to go to the head of the line. Thank you for your service.
Actually, they should be screened BEFORE they return from a combat theater. That bit about "here, take some Klonopin and get back out there" isn't made up. People with severe PTSD do not tend to make good choices in life-or-death situations, because true PTSD, to the brain, is living in a life-or-death state at all times (or nearly so). It's exhausting and impairs your ability to control fear and be rational when you need to be. So if you're in a combat zone and you've got the real deal already, it's time to pack 'em up and come home and get some treatment. (Which implies that treatment is readily available, of course; I'm talking "ideal world" here.) Not everyone who experiences a trauma gets PTSD. For those who do, we should not be retraumatizing them.
ShrinkRapt - saw your comment and it hit home. I was diagnosed with PTSD after my first deployment, prescribed anti-depressants and Klonopin when I came home; then 8 months later went back to Iraq again with a 6 month supply of both. I made it through some tough situations, but by the time I came back from my second Iraq deployment it was pretty clear to me that being exposed to even more trauma - although temporarily eased by the Klonopin - was a disaster for me in the long term.
The really sad part is I knew lots of other service members in the same situation. When I started to need sleeping medication toward the end of my second deployment it was considered so routine at the 'pharmacy' that they gave you a batch in a zip lock bag with your name written in marker on the side.
From what I have been reading the past couple of years, the number of service members in a combat zone and taking anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and/or sleeping pills is rising fast and represents a significant number of personnel deployed (I have read it may be as high as 20% of deployed personnel).
At least the Vets from the present wars are getting something at the time they are in theater. In the earlier wars that did not happen. Even though we went to a private Doctor for help my Vet stills has the nightmares and sometimes I get hit or choked, could have earlier treatment made a difference, I don't know but they sure weren't going to do anything at that time. Some of his buddies have some problems that are contacted to Agent Orange and what a mess that is again getting treatment in some cases is like pulling teeth. Like I said those Vets that are getting treatment I hope it continues for them. If the need came where America needed her Vets my Husband would be the first in line to defend our country because he says no matter how bad things are this is still the best country in the world. Good luck to all Vets. As always just my opinion.
Hmm i find this fishy, dont get me wrong here, i mean i support everything these men and women who join and fights for our country( if they ever goto battle ). But to me if you join the service knowingly especially the marines, and expect the world to drop to your feet. i know the marine is a hard job, they should have better training, in these matters. Seriously now, if the person isnt shot in the head or a vital area, i dont see why they couldnt function normally in society, Yes they seen Lot of bad things, but that what the marines are for.
just because youve seen a few heads blown off, and your friend killed, in front of you, yes its traumatic, but to get help, because YOU signed up for this hard and honorable task. But dont expect everything to be served to you on a silver platter.
some of these men married women and then complain they arent being treated, they get killed in action, the women and child(im sure of it) will be fatherless.
dont get me wrong here, im all for giving these men and women all they need, but within reasons. Post traumatic syndrome is something mental, can be remedied. if you cannot handle it, then dont join, seriously.
the marine is the toughest job out there, hats off to the marines.
Dont ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.
i kind of agree with that cliche.
@#$%&&@%$%^%$^%#@& You.
Very easy to be the one saying this, but not realistic. You got a test that can determine this?
Peace
Sloppyjoes - clearly the mental health issue is one you should relate to as your post is totally insane. Who the hell do you think you are? How dare you act as if our men and women in the military deserve anything less than the best we can give them? Yes, it is a volunteer military but thank god there are men and women who DO volunteer. That does not mean we should not treat them with the most respect possible. And, yes they see things you and I cannot imagine and they DO deserve ongoing care and support for what we put them through. Why don't you go try to buy a brain? You clearly need one!
Wow "sloppyjoes", from the looks of your grammar and English it appears as though you have had some sort of a traumatic brain injury or you are just an idiot!
I am currently serving in Iraq, I signed on the doted line a few years before 9/11. I am proud to continue serving so fools such as you have the freedom to open your stupid mouth and show truly what an ass you are. I bet if we asked you, your application to join ANY branch of the military was declined. You sound like a bitter fool who does not know anything!
Sloppyjoes - "just because youve seen a few heads blown off, and your friend killed, in front of you, yes its traumatic
You said it right there brother, one never knows how they will handle seeing a few heads blown off or a squad brother fatally wounded. I do think that some of these people are well off their rocker to begin with. I say this with first hand experience. Not all of our troops are the brightest or bravest in fact some of them are too stupid to breath. But with that said I believe all of our troops coming home from serving in combat deserve the best possible health care no matter the cost!
Cindee - please excuse Sloppyjoe's total lack of any intelligence or integrity. And, know that the majority of Americans feel we owe you and your fellow soldiers our deepest gratitute. Please know that you are remembered and respected not just on Memorial Day - but every day.
"Post traumatic syndrome is something mental, can be remedied...." This shows you know nothing about PTSD. I am a non-military survivor of multiple brain injury and post-trauma syndrome (domestic/family violence). Neither can ever be "remedied", can't "just get over it". Don't make judgments about what you don't understand, and stop disrespecting those of us who survive and somehow learn to manage our disabilities, imperfect as we may be. I can really relate the the comments about being given bags full of pills and no real treatment. I refuse the pills myself, and use my own research into alternative methods to learn to manage my condition. I will always be grateful to the combat vets who have hugged me, let me cry out loud, and taught me "positive self-talk" methods that they have developed and shared outside the VA. Bless you all.
sloppyjoes
Are you really serious? My husband is a Disabled Veteran- 100% disabled. He has a brain injury, ptsd, bipolar, schizo effective disorder. I am his care taker, in other words, i take care of him, It is hard at times, But for the most part he does pretty darn good, I did alot of research and study about all major mental illnesses, To educate my self, I have also teamed up with MAMI (National Alliance in Mental Health) So I could better understand my husband's Disabilities.
I have great empathy and sympathy for our men and women that suffer ANY kind of Mental Illness and their family members also. It is very heart breaking, and at the v.a. it's (Hurry up and wait!!!)
Our troops deserve the best medical care they can get, but its very unfortunate that they don't, its easier to throw pills at the problem than to educate them about their mental illness, huge difference, but they would rather throw medication at the problem so they can get in their next app.
how dare you say anything about our troops and mental illness unless you know exactly what it is like to fight in a war, and what it can do to a person. you obviously have not one damn clue what mental illness is, let alone understand it.
you need to get off this site, and start doing some research ,and study for knowledge about ptsd and mental illness, until then, we don't need your input anymore!!!!!!
bless all our troops and their families!!!!!
You are ignorant!
Really?... Wow! Still can't believe the ignorance of sloppyjoes.
If ever someone said that to my face I would not hesitate to KILL them with no remorse only joy. Are you related to Hitler? You seem to have the mental capacity of a Northwest Slug... but I have more respect for the slug than you. My Friends died for your carcass and I fought for your stupidity!!? F U
yeah you people dont see the light only what is glaring from behind you.
Kill me huh?? now that a mental problem issue. i cannot say something what on my mind unless some idiot doesnt like what i say, boo hoo. hmm are you people looking for a handout or something!?!?
English grammar who cares, you took the time to read it, so who care what grammar format its in, you took the time to read it. this isnt your high school final exams get over yourself okay!
As for REAL brain injuries then they should get all the help they wanted didnt you see what i said!??! read the post, even if it hard to understand.
yes woodE you might have fought for me but you sure aint exercising why you fought for. For my freedom of speech, freedom of expression, get over your high horse. sorry you have to feel that way toward anyone who has an opinion, thats all it is an opinion.
A sad world you live in. Sorry to say, As for the rest of you, A Joke really.
Always looking for money, they served their country. some do it because they know its has great benefit, yes it does, most do it because they think they will never goto war. Some got drafted( Im sorry about that) war is not a pretty thing, its has many many bad issues in this subject. but you cannot blame anyone but yourselves. for the one that got drafted I dont blame you for fighting for what you think you deserve, but for those who signed up. you just have yourself to think about. nobody can make your path, nobody but your own will.
Unfortunately, how people get PTSD is not so simple as your comment suggests. Anyone can get PTSD if exposed to a traumatic event. Being a Marine does not make you less likely to get PTSD than someone else (yes, I am a Marine).
Of all the things I remember from learning about PTSD is the saying, 'PTSD is a normal reaction to a f***ed up situation.'
In other words, if you study PTSD and the psychology of trauma (a great read is "On Killing" by LtCol Dave Grossman, PhD) you would understand that after being exposed to enough trauma all human beings will experience PTSD to some extent or another - with the exception of sociopaths/psychopaths.
Simply put, if a group of service members is exposed to continuous combat for about 90 days - the ones who are not traumatized at the end were suffering from serious mental illness before they entered combat.
The VA is the US Government .. is anyone getting this??? Our whole system is broken and "We the people" need to demand that our representatives deliver on making the WHOLE system better! So, do you want corprate American to run your health care when it's all about profit or do you want government to run it??? No easy answer is there .. I know most people on Medicare really have no complaints! Maybe it's better to put injured VETS on Medicare?
I am a Vietnam vet and went through the same crap 40 years ago, trying to get medical benefits now and its been a like a bad dream. Exposed to agent orange, had neck cancer and still wake up sweating from PD SS. They still will not own up to it
Thank you for your service, sir.
Me Too Jack. .. Nam Vet here, ( bush vet grunt Marine ) Neck Cancer survivor of 20 plus years, and I'm too on the agent Orange list.The V.A. legal team has won the first rounds but the fight has just begun and I'm gonna bet on me winning this war. Keep fighting.
First of all thank you for serving. My dad served in Viet Nam, 4 years Air Force and 4 years Coast Guard. He to was exposed to agent orange. Sadly, he passed away in 2005 due to kidney failure. The Government did not give him disability benefits until a year before he passed. He suffered financially and physically for a very long time.
Hang in there and call them everyday, don't give up.
You all are in my prayers.
I must say Iowa City is one of the better Vet hospitals. They treated me well when I would visit and my dad never complained about the care.
Folks, BTDT. The problem is the not the VA. Is the people of this country. Look at yourselves in the mirror. There is the problem.
No one cares, they protest funerals, call us baby killers, say we deserve no sympathy because we volunteered for it. Look at Code Pink. We HATE those bigots.
You all should be ashamed. You did nothing, you do nothing.
Do NOT hate due to the actions of a tiny, tiny minority of asswipes.
WE, The American Public, are OVERWHELMINGLY supportive and appreciative and thankful for YOUR Service.
Be Well, and Thank YOU, Katlan Jones!
Peace
Katlan Jones - we need to do more. We cannot do enough to repay those who have served our country.
What's SAD is THIS Neglect was KNOWN & REPORTED in The NATION MAGAZINE YEARS BACK!
The GOP (DUMSFELD ) You go to war with the ARMY you HAVE!
Not with the army u might want or wish to have Later. ( BUNGWIPE )
Bush & Administration Prepared for WAR but, NOTHING ELSE!
Remember , BAKE SALES to get BODY ARMOR for National guard Troops ?
I DO!
The Troops are Treated SAME AS WORKERS COMP!
FAKER until DRIVEN INSANE!
It is Easy to Forget Wounded in the shadows!
In my District ( The U.S. Congressman is REALY GOOD at Getting the V.A. to MOVE )!
They Claim it Takes TIME to Fill OLD & so called NEW positions at the V.A. ??
And Should get Better ?????????
Katlin, You have a RIGHT to be ANGRY!
Look at The U.S. and it'S BOTH PARTY WAR MACHINE!
And PYRAMID SCHEME for The FILTHY RICH! ( Both Budgets are WEALTHY Shelters)
In the Very Beginning of Budget Cut talks , One SEN or CONG. Wanted VET CUTS!
InSANE CLOWN!
ZERO Respect and I am Sorry to Hear you go the HARD ROAD!
Joe Anarchy banned, rereg of comment spammer King of Anarchy, trolling all military members as rapists. Useless.
Look Idon't want to be cruel. Anyone signing for any branch of the services should do some investigating first as far as any Physical or Mental Health Programs that are in current existence caring for any servicemen or women returning home from a War Zone.
Don't sign anything until you know exactly what the score is as far as an Care that Veterans receive once they get home.
Here in Conn they seem to get pretty decent care. However it depends on what area's of the country you live in.
Investigate, Investigate, and Investigate, before you sign on the dotted line and cross all your T's.
Unfortunately, you are correct, but the Recruiters are selling a Product, the Families are not often enough supportive in the 'read first' aspect of their kids' signings of Military Contracts, and to tell a kid something is just like when we were young.........."I Know It ALL!"
And those recruiters bank on it.
Not disagreeing, just saying.
BTW-Happy Memorial Day Weekend, Gloria! Good to see Ya!!
Investigate? it`s the governemt for gods sake when they promise us something we should be able to take them at their word without having to investigate them as if they are some fly by night HMO.
You to notsojingo Happy Memorial Day!
Gloria,
I appreciate what you are trying to say, but you must understand the majority of people signing up for the military are 18 year old kids. Kids with very little experience in the art of contract negotiations. (and with the military there is no negotiation) They have the recruiter's words to go by. Most military personnel really don't know what the system is like until they need to use it. You can say do the research, but what research can they do? Some VA systems are great, others are not so much. (as we see from the various posters here on the vine) Physical health care is a different animal than mental health care as is the way it is treated. It is easy for people to sit back and "blame" the military personnel for their woes, but if we do that we take away from the severity of the problem. NOBODY knows what their reaction in a given situation will be and NOBODY knows what their on going trauma will be. When I was younger I had a dog try (and luckily unsuccessfully) to bite my face off. I LOVE dogs! I have no fear of them.. respect yes.. fear no. My old friend is deathly afraid of dogs because she was scared (not bitten) by one. We were approximatly the same age when we faced our dog trauma. We both reacted differently. I know that is a very simple example, but do you see my point? To blame her for teasing the dog or to say she shouldn't have been near the dog would diminish her very real terror of dogs. When you inadvertantly blame military personnel for not doing their research you are blaming them for a problem and subsequent reaction that NO ONE can forsee. This then creates the issue that nothing gets done to help these Soldiers and Marines (Air/Seaman) who desperatly need help.
I respect what you are saying, but I do so in disagreement. I wish you the best!
W
Thank You sam!
This is an example of an overworked government system--too many international conflicts at the same time and too little service coming home. This is not a Republican nor Democrat problem; this is an American tragedy and the fault lies with all involved in making policy and those who do not insure its success. If all who read these blogs, take a moment to write their representatives and senators and follow through on the letters, perhaps people will not continue to fall between the cracks in a government system that is too large and too stretched to deliver.
No it is the not Goveernment fault. The loss of any cultural values in our country is to blame. The country is broke, morally and financially. Maybe the Chinese will help us on both accounts.
What cracks me up are these folks whining about people still blaming Dubya and Old Man Potter for the economy. Well, I've got news for them, until the economy has recovered fully, people should be reminded daily who and what caused the mess: Bush and Cheney and their supply-side, trickle-down economic policies that Republicans are still trying to push. They never learn!
Mark- but yet it's the D side that cuts your funding over and over again
Shame on us. Shame on U.S. Yes this is all Bush and his cronies fault. If he didn't send these men into a phoney war then they would still be alive. Shame on him for sending these youngsters over there time and time again instead of keeping them home and allowing them to have families and homes. And if Bush didn't destroy our economy then there would be plenty of money to take care of our Vets. Don't waste your time replying just to call me a left-wing liberal because I am not. I am just an American patriot with enough sense to see what greed has done to our country and the lives of our young men and women that protect us.
RayDart- as much as dislike Bush and I agree with the fact that the Iraq war was his ego war, this does not all rest on him. We ALL need to step up and see that our military men and women are taken care of. This is not a Democratic or Republican issue. It is an American issue and we need to address it and make it work. I am a registered Independent - certainly leaning more Democratic - but this is an issue we all have to own. These are our men and women and we OWE them.
No Ray You seem to forget that We were attacked by a bunch of people that
have no respect for human life at all and if anyone is to be blamed it is Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton . Carter for not having a pair and allowing the Iranians to
Attack our Embassy twice and hold our people hostage for over a year . and Clinton for gutting our intelligence community and putting walls up that would not allow the CIA to warn the FBI of the probability of an attack.
And the fact that Clinton had at least "5" chances to capture or kill Osama
but was too busy getting his jollies off with Monica in the oval office .
No it wasn't all Bushes fault it was a complete and total break down of
our elected officials so if You want to blame any one look in the mirror
and take a real good look at the people we elect who's only real goal in life is to get them selves re-elected . Its time to go back to the way it was in the beginning of this nation where the congressmen and women are dragged up
to Washington kicking and screaming because they have been pulled away from their business's and farms and keep all of the damn lawyers out of Washington
And I do agree with You on a couple things our Vets are what has kept this
country from either speaking "German" "Japanese" or "Russian" and hopefully
"Arabic"
Jim S former USMC Semper Fi
the image of GW in a flight suit still pisses me off....
John M former USAF "Death on Delivery"
Mission Accomplished!
RayDart, you're picking and choosing in placing blame., If Bush is at fault then Obama is even more so for still keeping our military in Iraq and for sending even more to Afghanistan for the "surge".
Worse yet, he has involved us in Libya with possibility of spreading even more $democracy and $reform in other ME countries. When does it stop so we can actually take better care of our veterans instead of creating more victims of PTSD and physically disabled combat military personnel.
This is a matter that involves both parties in government so try to keep an open mind politically.
Compared to what returning Vietnam Vets faced regarding help from the VA and Society, their problems have been minimized.
Even if you were wounded, the VA didn't know what PTSD was, much less recognize it and give you a 40% to 45% Disability Rating. We simply had to tough it out, go it alone, go crazy, commit suicide, divorce, drop out of society, and commit other atrocities.
After being released from the VA Hospital and Army, my wife had to get me in with a Private Psychiatrist. I was mean, crazy, hated the world, suicidal, etc. I saw this doctor once, sometimes twice a week for over 5 years, after which I just stopped going. Believe me it was necessary and it did help.
In 2001 I finally broke down and went to the VA for help. I had just had private Open Heart Surgery and was diagnosed with Diabetes. Neither of these diseases has ever been in my family. There I found a Vietnam Veterans Support Group that I could fully relate my experiences and actions while in Vietnam. After several months, this was the first time in my life I could start walking tall, as I was ashamed of my actions and even admit that I'd been in Vietnam for over 41 years.
These guys were like me, they hurt, were crazy inside with guilt, filled with hate, etc. It took me 9 months to finally see a doctor and psychiatrist. After 10 years, they finally awarded me disability for my PTSD. I didn't need their money but I wanted someone to pay for my being wounded and the pure "Hell" I had to live with, each and every day of my life.
I understand these guys and their desire to committ suicide. I've had a gun in my mouth at least 20 times or more since returning from that "hellhole". All because of my guilt and the loss of life I had taken and experienced. Fortunately, my wife, the support groups and the psychiatrists I saw have helped me live through these times.
My heart goes out to each returning war veteran who saw combat. Its wrong what the VA does, but when their budgets get cut they can't offer any help to returning veterans. Electing the right officials will ensure the VA gets their requested funding and joining a group such as the Disabled American Veterans or American Legion will help with your process.
Hang in there brothers and God Bless to all "War Veterans".
Michael2424, Thank you, finally some one who understands. There are no many of us wives that stuck by our men through this. I for one feel lucky to have my Vet. Good Luck to you and yours.
They spend more money taking care of Iraqis and Afghanistanis (or whatever you call them) then taking care of our soldiers. It's F'd up. My husband is over there and it pisses him off that they buy 15,000 dollar HD camera's that never get used. They were going to DRMO it!!! Which means throw it away. It's BS. This war is breaking our country apart!