I suppose crazy military officers (the army psychiatrist in Texas, for example) can happen anywhere, too, so let's just relax and not get too worked up about the latest VA mess. It's just statistics, after all.

Actually....Yes, those crazy people can happen anywhere. But you don't always hear about them until until a brave person steps up and points it out. How many people have died sitting in a McDonald's or in a grocery store because some unstable person walked in with a loaded weapon and started shooting. Take off your tunnel vision glasses.

Can you believe this? I just had a lengthy and complete comment deleted by newsvine. Those with comments, beware of who may be listening. We are not alone! I spent close to two hours writing chronicling the employee abuse at a Bay Are VA installation and poof! Gone!!

The investigations have suggested that a culture of secrecy and fear of retribution contributed to the problems.

The above comment should memorialized because it explains in great detail the everyday life of employment at the VA. How many more years will employees be forced to suffer because elected officials refuse to admit this environment exists. We are talking about the etical treatment of humans right here at home in the good ole USA!!

As a Viet Nam Veteran, I can truly say that the treatment I've received by the very agency who's sworn mission is to serve and protect those who've served has been nothing less than criminal and a complete disgrace!! With no prior disciplinary action and exceptional work appraisals, I was fired for reporting descriminatory and prejudicial work conditions.

Believe me, there is no "Zero Tolerance Policy" against violence within the VA. I know because the person who came after me and sent two employees to the ER and has since acted out violence again he still works there and is treated as the prodigal employee. What a disgrace!!

dhampton: I salute you what you did and what it cost you. My story is similar and with the same outcome: removal from VA employment. This is my second attempt to write about the poor work conditions and the great lengths the VA goes to hide those work conditions. I am well aware of the risks of sounding paranoid but this makes the sixth time that I have had material deleted and made irretrievable when writing about my experiences as a VA employee. In almost every case, a error message comes up when I try to send the email or in this case enter my comment that says a network problem has been detected. Of course when you hit the go back option, in this case, you get directed to the original article and the comment is gone. In one instance, the comment material completely disappeared and a new comment window opened up.

My VA story involves how agency management at a Northern CA VA Hospital works in a concerted effort to expedite an employees removal if the employee stands up and threatens exposure to their secretive and heavily protected way of maintaining fear amongst the working employees.

These tactics of enforcement may include but are not limited to bullying, creating a hostile work environment that leads to workplace violence and then service removal, discrimination, retaliation and retribution which is different from retaliation because others within the VA agency may be made aware of the targeted empoyees situation and can then enact their own additional consequences.

Hopefully, someday soon, someone with enough guts will conduct a full impartial investigation in to the employment practices at the VA. This means getting the employees to safe enough environment to truthfully speak out without fear of losing their jobs.

Again, thanks dhampton. I'd welcome the opportunity to hook up with you because it takes people like us who are not afraid and will pursue this mision in a ruthless, restless, and relentless midset until light is shed upon the this pervasive and archaic way of treating our felloe human beings.

Has anyone heard about the federal contract fraud busts within the engineering departments at Northern California VA Hospitals? Can anyone say tip of the iceberg?

MMM... well, there's no such thing as an engineering department in a hospital, so... I suspect the answer to your last is a resounding NO. You aren't helping the spirit of the article in the slightest. Come on now!

If you don't have anything positive or constructive, clinpsych, I'd stay quiet.

And yes, there ARE engineering departments. Every hospital has generators, AC, and lots of other infrastructure. Hospitals aren't just doctors, you know.

This whole thing is disgraceful. If you REALLY want to lose a country, just keep kicking your vets to the curb. I would bet you would lose a LOT of potential recruits just from word of mouth alone.

And to all my fellow brothers in arms..."Always Forward!"

I just did have something constructive to say. There simply IS no engineering department in a hospital.

They employ HVAC techs... they have no such department. DUH!!!

I am a vet. I simply pointed out simple truth... hospitals HAVE no engineering department. This is all I said. Are you watching too much Star Trek? What the poo?

Amazing isn't it... I bet not one vet serving in Congress goes to a VA facility. They are treated at NOTHING BUT THE BEST HOSPITALS available with the best doctors in the country. Just shows.... IT'S ALL ABOUT THE $$$$. No matter what BS they spout .... they make sure they are taken care of and SCREW the rest of the citizens (military or not). Sorry fellas and gals. :-(

There is also clinical engineering departments and capital planning, as well as technical engineering such as plumbers, hvac and electricians. So unless the exact defintion of the engineering issues is gven it's not best to assume what is and what isn't.

Building engineers are a dept that exist in most any large facility, both in the civilian world and in gvmnt facilities. As an Air Traffic Controller, I often had to call the engineering dept for structural problems....reguarding anything from HVAC problems to sticking/warped entry doors and sometime perhaps even a general purpose electrical outlet malfunction. I suppose if I had a leak from plumbing or a roof---that also would be "bldg engineers". They've got the "as built" blueprints for all bldg structural and address everything from general electrical, plumbing, lighting, carpentry, locksmiths, flooring, railing, windows, etc.

In my afterlife, as an electrician, I'm also very familiar with "bldg engineers"....often referred to as the "engineering dept", as I have done work UNDER that dept...and, at of all places.....AT A V.A.Hospital! "Clinpsych"(Lets hope you're really not one---because you NEED one)....you're all wet behind the ears. Not only very unknowledgable, but very unable to be taught or learn from your mistakes......but I'll bet you've heard THAT before.

Ok... well it's rather funny how no hospital sign anywhere has directions to the engineering department.

Clinical engineering? What exactly would this be?

And how is said dubious department contributing to fraud? It'd be rather impossible... what are they going to do, order too many cooling system replacements? How would that make THEM money? Fraud generally has a profit motive after all.

Water, you should probably think before you speak... you know, actually read what I was responding to.

clinical engineering dept usually takes care of all the equipment used for patient care, things like heart monitors, X-ray machines, etc.

many hospitals do have signs directing to the engineering dept, the signs usually say " maintenence" on them, some hospitals will have signs that say "engineering & maintence".

Maintenance is not the same as engineering. Actually... most hospitals have to send equipment to calibration companies. Sorry... you are simply grossly wrong.

Very, Very true. That also holds true for the VA. The current acting Director of the Dayton VA worked for the VA system in Cleveland, of couse he has never served, for 40 years making close to $200.000.00 a year. His wife worked there too making almost the same amout of money. They retired and started a "Creating Wealth"business where they were charging people to learn how to get rich. In reality, all they did was live off the government and save millions of dollars for 40 years. Just parasites! Now, they are experts on "How to get rich". He was called back to the VA to straighten out the Dental Clinic mismagement. I Can only imagine what they are paying him for this but I'm sure it will be short-lived. Then he will go back to charging people to learn how to get rich. Just pathetic!

Not only don't they pay for malpractice they are immune from prosecution. Any charge against them becomes Vet vs the United States Government and they get free legal representation from the largest, richest law firm in the world. We call them the Unites States Attorney.

Dr. Dwight Pemberton, 81

These are the kind of doctors they are hiring? How can they possibly believe that they provide the best medical care anywhere when they are employing 81 year old doctors?

The VA is a joke they always have been. This isn`t an isolated incident incompetence and neglect has always been a trademark of the VA.

There is no oversight. They cover for each other and since they can omit or add anything to your records without you knowing it. When receiving VA health care always get a copy of your health records. Do this on a monthly basis. Make sure you read them and if there are any mistakes have them changed to be as accurate as possible. Use the patient rep. though it is sometimes like talking to the wall but do file a complaint if you feel like you aren't being treated right.

The VA has a lot of very good employees but a lot of over paid non performers too. The VA Health Care System is a good example of government waste and nobody will do anything about it.

An excellent example of government ineptness. Needs much improvement and not military people running it. But it is very necessary for our veterans.

The ONLY reason they released this information is because I contacted the media and the US Senate Vet Affairs Committee. They do not deserve kudos because they did their best to hide this mess.

I agree that private hospitals sweep these reports uder the rug. I worked at Oregon Health and Sciences University in Portland OR and saw some scary practices by one doctor in particular. The Culture of Medicine, particularly among doctors, is "don't tell anybody; he's a brother; we'll protect him at all costs." It is also taboo to say anything against a doctor: you are a mere human or sub-human, whereas doctors are Gods.

Nobody expects perfection from the VA but we also can`t tolerate deliberate conspiracies to cover up incompetence and negligence that threatens the life of the people they serve. Things like this aren`t just innocent random mistakes that should be forgiven and forgotten,it`s inexcusable.

Many civilian hospitals would in the same boat as the VA if they had to report infections and other problems like the VA. I have learned to check with nurse friends and find out which hopistals they go to and which they stay away from.

I have found if various nurses say you need to find another hospital for a given procedure I follow their advice and go else where. And I go to both VA and civilian hospitals.

Unfortunately, after working in the medical field for close to 15 years, these are all sad but true stories. Yes, the Federal government VA has its problems, but remember, the staff that works at the VA are all LICENSED medical professionals. They could easily leave the VA and work at your local private hospitals, which a lot of them do. So, these problems are not just localized with the VA, they are pervasive throughout the entire Medical Establishment in the US. We have lowered the standard for medical professionals and given Nurses more authority to make medical decisions related to patient care simply because the doctors do not have enough time to see all the patients booked in one day (partly the hospitals fault, partly ours for staying unhealthy).

So whats the solution??? Eat right, exercise, stay in shape!!!!!

The VA pays all of it's employee's more than what they would make on the "outside". Clerical staff and a lot of other area's in the VA pay 30--40% more than what you would make on the outside. Some of the staff I seen in action aren't qualified to be anything and yet are making over 50K a year. They talk and treat Vets with little respect on some occasions and have nothing to fear from their superiors.

Some of the best and worst care I have received in my life have come from the VA health care system but IMO you the patient are responsible for your health care. If you use the VA Heath Care System be aware of who is treating you and if you don't feel comfortable with that person ask for another Dr.. Just because the care might be free doesn't mean it is good. If you are a Vet. that has been promised health care you have the right to DEMAND IT IS GOOD HEALTH CARE. Don't be timid about your care is the best advise I can give anybody dealing with the VA. Get copies of all your health care too. Do it monthly and make sure you keep a good records.

Well actually Hospital Acquired Illnesses are public record in over 25 states. I know because when I asked for HAI statistics where I work I was told the problem is hospital wide. So I looked up HAI reporting regulations and found in my state they are sopposed to volunteer them and suddenly the head of infection cintrol told me where I could find the statistics. Insist on asking whenever you go to a hospital the HAI statistcs. They are also known as Nosocomial Infection Markers. Many Hospital web pages have this information hidden in their many web pages all you got to do is ask.

They also work a lot less hours and see less patients. Everything is subjective. They get what they work for. How many doctors do you know who come in at 8am get an 45 minute lunch and leave a 4pm sharp?

You CAN'T be implying that because we pay V.A. doctors less than they COULD make on the outside(perhaps they KNOW they can't compete for a higher compensation....or CAN'T GET malprctice ins.) that the G.I.'s like myself DESERVE to get deadly diseases.

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Nearly 40,000 people learned this week that a trip to the doctor may have made them sick.

In a type of scandal more often associated with Third World countries, a Las Vegas clinic was found to be reusing syringes and vials of medication for nearly four years. The shoddy practices may have led to an outbreak of the potentially fatal hepatitis C virus and exposed patients to HIV, too.

The discovery led to the biggest public health notification operation in U.S. history, brought demands for investigations and caused scores of lawyers to seek out patients at risk for infections.

Thousands of patients are being urged to be tested for the viruses. Six acute cases of hepatitis C have been confirmed. The surgical center and five affiliated clinics have been closed.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-03-05-hepatitis-vegas_N.htm

Your pride and joy private sector is not innocent either...... looks like their mistake is alot worse.

That isn't true. The Drs. and staff make more than what they would make on the outside.

Thank you. This journey would have been so much easier had Vets stood with me. Instead, they called me crazy and avoided me at all costs. When it turned out I was telling the truth of course then, they wanted to pat me on the back and thank me. I am not sure exactly how I feel about that but it willl not detour me from helping Vets in the future. My blog is dhampton100.blogspot.com if you want the complete story.

dhampton... While I commend you for bringing this issue to light for it needed to be dealt with. I also see a great many posts on here by you as if you are looking for additional validation and a bigger pat on the back. People in it for the right reasons don't need a pat on the back or need to continue to justify themselves on a blog like this. Job well done! But lay off!

Well... thats one opinion of what I do...I could simply be venting..But have at !

Oh by the way I will check with you before I type anything else because I certainly don't want to offend your sensitivities. Ok? My bad.

@dhampton-- You are much more a hero than any sports figure or even a firefighter that pulls a person from a burning bldg. You not only don't get paid for what you did...above and beyond the call of duty because it had NOTHING to do with your job description and what you (DID) get paid for, but now you've been blackballed in your career and will suffer greatly. I'm sure you considered this outcome before you took the action you did, but didn't let the consequences stop you from doing what you knew in your heart was the right thing to do. This once great nation needs more people to do this sort of thing....reGUARDless of consequence. Unfortunately, such actions are becoming rarer and rarer. I myself and other veterans owe you a great debt....just as America owes all veterans----but we don't do what we do for reward---only personal satisfaction and the fact of knowing that perhaps others will be inspired and follow a REAL role model. As for those that wish for you to be silenced and not so vocal---they are obviously not of the caliber of men that will ever be able to make a positive difference in this country.

Thank you Veteran.

The hiring of friends and family at The VA medical center in Long Beach,CA is a big problem you are absolutely right dhampton their are not enough Vets hired to deal with other Vets

Hiring non-Vets over Vets has been a problem for a long time. Rememberwhen they gave amnesty to those who went to Canada? I met a man who was a 10 point RVN vet who fired from his civil service job because if Mr. X did not get one the equivalent service jobs then Mr. X would have to go to jail. The supervisor was a "friend of whose family?

I was a patient at the Sacramento VA for almost 10 years. I think it mostly depends on the doctor who manages your care. It's not always bad treatment. I had many wonderful medical professionals treat me while I was a patient there. However, I had 1 doctor mess up enough to where I will not see a VA doctor or nurse for medical diagnosis or treatment. Luckily, I was medically retired from the military and can use TRICARE to see a private doctor. I mostly know what is wrong with me now, but I have to save for copayment the way I used to save for a new car.

Let us sue VA doctors like any other doctor and I bet the standard of treatment changes.

What? What does ebay and paypal has to do with this article? Have you even read it?

Paul I agree with everything you said except that just ONE dentist was negligent. This went on for 18 years with the entire dental clinic staff knowing as well as multiple reports to the Director’s office yet nobody reported him outside of the medical center or made him stop exposing Vets to blood born pathogens. I feel that this is a spotlight on the apathy that was apparent at the center. I think all of these staff members should be removed. Yes, I love the VA and NO I have never had a complaint about the physical medicine there. I’ve had plenty complaints about mental health and now I have a major problem with dental. I, too, am for universal care for all Americans and removing the profit motive from providing health care. The problem is that until an American has a “personal” experience where they or one of their loved ones is dying for no other reason than a lack of a bank account they will not get on board. On a side note: This dentist is a Korean War Vet who continues to visit the VA even after he was forced into retirement. Last week he walked into urgent care and had the unmitigated gall to ask for a dental consult! I was standing there and heard it myself!

Next time call 911 and get there by ambulance. They may not like it but unfortunately it is the best way to get attention.

/p> YOU ARE @HOLE