Did anyone ever stop and think that maybe this goes with another mutation that could be worse than non slipperly sperm? Maybe nature thinks these people should not reproduce and this is the way it is keeping them from it! Cumon! Just because you can do a thing does not mean you should. I tell my 4 year old that!
Just because someone is infertile, doesn't mean that there is something else wrong and that they shouldn't reproduce. My husband and I have been trying for over two years now. As a part of our infertility work-up, we both had complete karyotypes done looking for chromosomal abnormalities. Everything was perfectly normal.
Perhaps some folks should read that one sentence a little closer to realize the implication . . .
For couples who have the genetic mutation doctors can use insemination to get the sperm right next to the eggs and overcome the handicap.
Doesn't that strike anyone as being a little bit too re-productive? Fertilizing an egg with a cell that does not have the ability to fully function on it's own, seems to go against the way nature intended. Is this really a step forward for mankind, or a step backwards?
Look at it from a different perspective - It's similar to providing a high school diploma to a student who lacks the ability to get out of kindergarten. Sorry if that offends folks, but there you have it. For everything there is a reason. And whether you like it or not what the..... has a very valid point when they state: "Just because you can do a thing does not mean you should." I totally agree. I also agree with those who bring up the topic of adoption. There are plenty of children awaiting adoption who pray for someone to care enough to give them an opportunity for a chance to live a better life. Adoption has rewards of it's own. And a lifetime of them!
ThunderProof wrote "Fertilizing an egg with a cell that does not have the ability to fully function on it's own, seems to go against the way nature intended. "
thunderproof-- I hope you never get cancer or diabetes or heart disease and need help from modern medicine. Apparently, if you get any of these illnesses we should just let you die because you're inferior and that's how nature intended it.
what the-- I assume you must be genetically perfect since you have a 4-year-old? Look closely at your own genetic history, I'm sure you'll find some problems that are better off not being passed down.
What brilliance coming from the mouth of a sage, "what the". Wouldn't the world be a better place if society didn't fight the forces of Nature? Wouldn't it be great if we allowed millions to suffer from ravages of natural disaster, since that's what Nature intended? Too bad penicillin was discovered. Great rationality there. Please let me know when you give up your air-conditioned home in exchange for a cave.
Philip - everything you eat, unless you go out in the forest and hunt/gather for yourself, has been genetically modified by humans for centuries. Corn, wheat, rice, cow, swine, poultry...none of the domesticated foodstocks we eat today, even from your "organic" section of the grocery, have much resemblance to their original, natural counterpart. They've all been changed since the dawn of humanity to produce more nutrition and feed more people...I'm assuming you are complaining about the recent corporate developed GMO's which produce the same results in a fraction of the timeframe, a necessity when the global population has doubled over the past 50 years. Well let me suggest you go hunt your own deer and pick your own berries and avoid any foods that have been modified by man. Also let me suggest you learn about gene transfer, as your post 1.8 has no basis in truth whatsoever.
messenger please read 1.11...you demonstrate no knowledge of genetic drift, gene transfer, or genetics in general. A simple google scholar search finds only one study, performed in Austria on genetically modified mice (as every study on earth does....wonder if that affects results?) which showed only a decrease in litter size, not infertility or sterility. You also realize that mice are not humans, correct? In mice, studies have found that peanut allergy can be reversed and that lymphoma can be cured...none of which translates to human health. Interestingly, a search on PubMed, a database of medical peer reviewed journal articles, finds NO such studies, 0 search results for the same exact query I used to search google. I question where you get your information, i.e. anti-GMO website that you googled? Likely.
Newsflash: fertility treatments are often way faster and cheaper than adopting. Look into sometime, adoption is not as easy as it sounds. Not like I can pop over to Target and pick up a baby.
Adoption is risky because the kid could have defects for any number of reasons. It could be the birth mother was a drug addict, or an alcoholic, or that she was poor and neglected all prenatal care. It's quite possible and even likely that the child was born with special needs which would present extreme hardships upon any adoptive parents.
Adoption is unpopular because there's no guarantees, no refunds or exchanges, and no returns. The only way to make sure the pregnancy was done right is to do it yourself.
If someone has a genetic mutation that stops them from having kids why create a work around so they can produce another generation kids carrying the mutation?
What if your genetic mutation has caused obsessive compulsive masterbating? And if you get caught more than once a week, does it necessarily mean you shouldn't have children? The wardrobe clerks at Wal Mart don't understand these genetic mutations.
The real core of that infertility problem is directly from GMO foods.
GMO (genetically modified organisms) change your DNA slowly. It will ruin every following generation that follows us. GMO foods are low in nutrition and full of chemicals that also cause many health problems. Organic foods are the only way to stay healthy now. Make sure they are organic by growing your own foods by using only heirloom seeds.
Seems pretty obvious to me. There are MANY disorders that have shown up in recent years that did not exist BEFORE they started playing super scientist with our food.
My wife gets EXTREMELY sick when she eats anything that comes from GMO sources. Beef fed GMO = sick. Beef grass fed = not sick.
Don't forget to thank Halliburton. Heard their stocks went through the roof third quarter even though the rest of the world is pinching pennies. Halliburton makes it more economical to GET that gmo crap to your dinner table every night.
Now that you've had your kids, the hell with everyone else? I've never seen so many judgmental people on one board. Like a bunch of Neanterthals sitting around grunting, well, if God had mean us to fly he would have given us wings.
I'm appalled at those of you who would say such a thing and agree with 'what the'. I would never wish infertility on anyone, it is one of the most devestating things a couple can go through. My husband & I have been trying to have a child for well over 5 years now. We are both full time employees, we contribute to our communities, we pay our taxes, we don't drink or do drugs, we love each other and would provide a stable and loving home to any child. Adoption is being strongly considered, but you have to understand what that entails. Adoption is a huge decision, one that each person has to consider fully. I will admit to being slightly selfish, is it so wrong to want to a child of my own? To see him or her and the characteristics they have from myself or my husband? I hope you never have to be put in my shoes, because God forbid you do, you'll understand how hurtful comments like those can be. For me, this find is a sliver of hope.
I understand what you are going through. My husband and I went through it ourselves. We were trying to get pregnant for well over 3 years without any success - and just when we were about to start fertility treatments, I turned up pregnant with our son, who is now 10. I couldn't believe some of the things people said to us when we were struggling to get pregnant, people can be so clueless, even if they mean well.
There is nothing selfish about wanting a child of your own - and don't let anyone tell you that there is. I think people have a hell of a lot of nerve who think it's OK to tell everybody else how they should feel and how they should live. And for the record, I would have been OK with adopting, but my husband was absolutely adamant that he was not raising someone else's child. And he's allowed to feel that way. Adoption isn't for everyone.
Well stated, TW-15. Additionally, adoption is not only a difficult decision to make, it can be a difficult process for couples to go through. Most people who haven't been in this situation don't realize that the adoption process can be very lengthy and expensive...more so than many forms of fertility treatment.
Well said. These people who comment with their "simple" solutions have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Infertility is about as complicated an issue as any couple can deal with and can't be solved by just adopting. There are so many emotional, spiritual, & financial layers to dealing with infertility as well as adoption. And, by the way, adoption is no easy road. There may be "millions of children out there," but being blessed to bring one into one's home is an uphill battle to say the least.
I too pray that these uninformed people never have to face what Infertility feels like- there are no words to describe the grief. And then to read an article that offers hope and see comments like these- simply reveals another layer of the devasation infertility can deliver... that so many people feel like we're not allowed to feel that sadness and grief and that we somehow "don't deserve" to have children. It's just cruel. I pray that next time, they think before they post something so hurtful.
After reading that article I only wished this discovery was made 15 years ago. My husband and I experienced the exact same problem and we did everything we could to conceive but were not successful. No doctor could understand why this was happening. So to those who are still struggling, do not give up or you will have regrets later in life. Those who never experienced infertility will never understand what its like so I can't blame them for feeling the way they do.
Ignore the people on this comment board. They are frequently inconsiderate and thoughtless. It scary to think that so many people like this have populated the earth. Must be those mutated sperm that made it upstream anyway.
The world is being destroyed by over population and all we need is fertility science screwing with the natural balance. Have we not learned yet there are times man should not be messing with mother nature.
Fix it? Heck, I'm hoping I have it... that's like a free ticket for me and my wife to forgo all birth control we're currently using, and enjoy ourselves. We have no plans on having a child of our own, and will likely adopt should we decide we want to expand our family.
I was thinking the same thing...and when the girl you are sleeping with tries to blackmail you with the prospects of being pregnant...you have nothing to worry about and Jerry Springer would be out of a job...LOL
While I have sympathy for couples who cannot concieve, there are plenty of children around the world who need homes. This genetic mutation is called natural selection. Maybe that person wasn;t meant to have a child by design?
There are all kinds of genetic mutations that can be treated medically at the present time. Should we not treat ANY of those conditions because it's "natural selection"?
" For couples who have the genetic mutation doctors can use insemination to get the sperm right next to the eggs and overcome the handicap. If that relatively simple intervention doesn't work, they can resort in vitro fertilization"
Isn't that just what they have been doing all along? This discovery is interesting as far as the cause is concerned, but the remedy doesn't sound like anything new to me.
No reason to fool around with mother natures birth control. If the sperm is mutated it's mutated for a reason. Evolution at work, and who are we to reveres that decision.
I had reason to believe that I was infertile a few months ago. My husband and I are nowhere near ready to have children, but it really made me think about it. I understand many couples' desire to have their own children, but after long consideration, I've come to the conclusion that the reasons I have for wanting "our own" child were a little shallow. For example, I want to name my child and I'm curious to see what he or she would look like. In the grand scheme of things, these are sacrifices I'm willing to make in order to give a home to a child in need. Despite the fact that I actually can have children, I found that adoption is something I really want for myself and my family.
Wow, first we have comments telling infertile couples to adopt because having your own kids is selfish, and now we have Gary criticizing someone who DOES choose adoption. Men sure do love telling women what to do or not do with their bodies.
Gary-- I believe we all have free will. Any couple is free to pursue adoption. Any couple is also free to pursue infertility treatments if they so desire. The burden of adopting all the children in the world should not fall to couples who happen to be unlucky in this one area.
I hope you never reproduce or adopt so that your ignorance may die with you.
Wow, I just looked at this again and although I doubt anyone will read this, I have to say it:
Gary- First of all, you're a troll. Secondly, adoption is not "for infertile couples," it's FOR CHILDREN who don't have families. The focus in an adoption is not the fertility or infertility of a couple. The focus is the child and providing that child with a family. PLUS it's well documented that couples who were thought to be "infertile" get pregnant after adopting. According to you, we should take their adopted child away since they're not qualified to adopt.
Could be possibly related to the contamination of our waterways. Reproductive issues as well as other mutations have been observed in aquatic life found in our polluted waterways.
No, 11madness, we don't live in ponds but we sure do live on some HUGE islands! ..... surrounded by the sludge in our oceans caused by fracking, oil spills, toxic run off, and just plain dumping of garbage in our waters by corporate douchebags.
Broaden your horizons. Put down the microscope for one second and get out your binoculars! It's right there in front of your face.
Yes KIKI, Birth control drugs have been detected in the Thames river. IT comes from urine from the women in England. The water treatment plants do not filter birth control and other drugs. And just think this week, New York is dumping raw sewage into the hudson river, unimpeded, because their water pumps are not working. THat is somebody's drinking water, somewhere.
And the correct answer is NO. But too many selfish women spread their legs and nine months later crank out another idiot we have to deal with. Make women sterile today. I am going to start supporting Bill Gates and his effort to lower the population. Good work Bill, keep it up.
What time bomb? They were saying that 40 years ago. The pop of the developed countries is already at zero to negative growth. Much of the dev countries moving that way as well.
Did anyone ever stop and think that maybe this goes with another mutation that could be worse than non slipperly sperm? Maybe nature thinks these people should not reproduce and this is the way it is keeping them from it! Cumon! Just because you can do a thing does not mean you should. I tell my 4 year old that!
I totally agree with you. Nature doesn't do something like make someone infertile, unless there is an underlying and real reason.
StephAce...Genetic mutations are random occurrences. No reason necessary.
Just because someone is infertile, doesn't mean that there is something else wrong and that they shouldn't reproduce. My husband and I have been trying for over two years now. As a part of our infertility work-up, we both had complete karyotypes done looking for chromosomal abnormalities. Everything was perfectly normal.
Perhaps some folks should read that one sentence a little closer to realize the implication . . .
Doesn't that strike anyone as being a little bit too re-productive? Fertilizing an egg with a cell that does not have the ability to fully function on it's own, seems to go against the way nature intended. Is this really a step forward for mankind, or a step backwards?
Look at it from a different perspective - It's similar to providing a high school diploma to a student who lacks the ability to get out of kindergarten. Sorry if that offends folks, but there you have it. For everything there is a reason. And whether you like it or not what the..... has a very valid point when they state: "Just because you can do a thing does not mean you should." I totally agree. I also agree with those who bring up the topic of adoption. There are plenty of children awaiting adoption who pray for someone to care enough to give them an opportunity for a chance to live a better life. Adoption has rewards of it's own. And a lifetime of them!
Hopefully Bill "the wad" Clinton was involved in this study??
ThunderProof wrote "Fertilizing an egg with a cell that does not have the ability to fully function on it's own, seems to go against the way nature intended. "
You make an argument against all IVFs.
thunderproof-- I hope you never get cancer or diabetes or heart disease and need help from modern medicine. Apparently, if you get any of these illnesses we should just let you die because you're inferior and that's how nature intended it.
what the-- I assume you must be genetically perfect since you have a 4-year-old? Look closely at your own genetic history, I'm sure you'll find some problems that are better off not being passed down.
probably ate too much genetically modified soy, and any genetically modified soy is too much btw
What brilliance coming from the mouth of a sage, "what the". Wouldn't the world be a better place if society didn't fight the forces of Nature? Wouldn't it be great if we allowed millions to suffer from ravages of natural disaster, since that's what Nature intended? Too bad penicillin was discovered. Great rationality there. Please let me know when you give up your air-conditioned home in exchange for a cave.
Is the cervix near the tonsils?
Philip - everything you eat, unless you go out in the forest and hunt/gather for yourself, has been genetically modified by humans for centuries. Corn, wheat, rice, cow, swine, poultry...none of the domesticated foodstocks we eat today, even from your "organic" section of the grocery, have much resemblance to their original, natural counterpart. They've all been changed since the dawn of humanity to produce more nutrition and feed more people...I'm assuming you are complaining about the recent corporate developed GMO's which produce the same results in a fraction of the timeframe, a necessity when the global population has doubled over the past 50 years. Well let me suggest you go hunt your own deer and pick your own berries and avoid any foods that have been modified by man. Also let me suggest you learn about gene transfer, as your post 1.8 has no basis in truth whatsoever.
messenger please read 1.11...you demonstrate no knowledge of genetic drift, gene transfer, or genetics in general. A simple google scholar search finds only one study, performed in Austria on genetically modified mice (as every study on earth does....wonder if that affects results?) which showed only a decrease in litter size, not infertility or sterility. You also realize that mice are not humans, correct? In mice, studies have found that peanut allergy can be reversed and that lymphoma can be cured...none of which translates to human health. Interestingly, a search on PubMed, a database of medical peer reviewed journal articles, finds NO such studies, 0 search results for the same exact query I used to search google. I question where you get your information, i.e. anti-GMO website that you googled? Likely.
have to agree with what the, if you can't have a kid freaking adopt their are MILLIONS of children out their in need of good homes.
I just wish, for once, to see protesters with "Adoption is the Option" signs out in front of these fertility clinics.
Newsflash: fertility treatments are often way faster and cheaper than adopting. Look into sometime, adoption is not as easy as it sounds. Not like I can pop over to Target and pick up a baby.
Adoption is risky because the kid could have defects for any number of reasons. It could be the birth mother was a drug addict, or an alcoholic, or that she was poor and neglected all prenatal care. It's quite possible and even likely that the child was born with special needs which would present extreme hardships upon any adoptive parents.
Adoption is unpopular because there's no guarantees, no refunds or exchanges, and no returns. The only way to make sure the pregnancy was done right is to do it yourself.
This an example of Science hurting humanity.
If someone has a genetic mutation that stops them from having kids why create a work around so they can produce another generation kids carrying the mutation?
Because the next generation (if the gene is passed) could receive the same treatment.
What if this mutation is fine without the overall reduction in male fertility caused by clothing and sitting in an office all day?
What if your genetic mutation has caused obsessive compulsive masterbating? And if you get caught more than once a week, does it necessarily mean you shouldn't have children? The wardrobe clerks at Wal Mart don't understand these genetic mutations.
The real core of that infertility problem is directly from GMO foods.
GMO (genetically modified organisms) change your DNA slowly. It will ruin every following generation that follows us. GMO foods are low in nutrition and full of chemicals that also cause many health problems. Organic foods are the only way to stay healthy now. Make sure they are organic by growing your own foods by using only heirloom seeds.
Seems pretty obvious to me. There are MANY disorders that have shown up in recent years that did not exist BEFORE they started playing super scientist with our food.
My wife gets EXTREMELY sick when she eats anything that comes from GMO sources. Beef fed GMO = sick. Beef grass fed = not sick.
In the voice of Peggy Bundy, everyone thank Monsanto....
THANKS MONSANTO
Don't forget to thank Halliburton. Heard their stocks went through the roof third quarter even though the rest of the world is pinching pennies. Halliburton makes it more economical to GET that gmo crap to your dinner table every night.
Just what we need - more hungry mouths in a world that is already over populated.
Now that you've had your kids, the hell with everyone else? I've never seen so many judgmental people on one board. Like a bunch of Neanterthals sitting around grunting, well, if God had mean us to fly he would have given us wings.
I'm appalled at those of you who would say such a thing and agree with 'what the'. I would never wish infertility on anyone, it is one of the most devestating things a couple can go through. My husband & I have been trying to have a child for well over 5 years now. We are both full time employees, we contribute to our communities, we pay our taxes, we don't drink or do drugs, we love each other and would provide a stable and loving home to any child. Adoption is being strongly considered, but you have to understand what that entails. Adoption is a huge decision, one that each person has to consider fully. I will admit to being slightly selfish, is it so wrong to want to a child of my own? To see him or her and the characteristics they have from myself or my husband? I hope you never have to be put in my shoes, because God forbid you do, you'll understand how hurtful comments like those can be. For me, this find is a sliver of hope.
I understand what you are going through. My husband and I went through it ourselves. We were trying to get pregnant for well over 3 years without any success - and just when we were about to start fertility treatments, I turned up pregnant with our son, who is now 10. I couldn't believe some of the things people said to us when we were struggling to get pregnant, people can be so clueless, even if they mean well.
There is nothing selfish about wanting a child of your own - and don't let anyone tell you that there is. I think people have a hell of a lot of nerve who think it's OK to tell everybody else how they should feel and how they should live. And for the record, I would have been OK with adopting, but my husband was absolutely adamant that he was not raising someone else's child. And he's allowed to feel that way. Adoption isn't for everyone.
Well stated, TW-15. Additionally, adoption is not only a difficult decision to make, it can be a difficult process for couples to go through. Most people who haven't been in this situation don't realize that the adoption process can be very lengthy and expensive...more so than many forms of fertility treatment.
Also TW, I just wanted to add, please don't give up hope. You and your husband sound like you would be wonderful parents.
Well said. These people who comment with their "simple" solutions have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Infertility is about as complicated an issue as any couple can deal with and can't be solved by just adopting. There are so many emotional, spiritual, & financial layers to dealing with infertility as well as adoption. And, by the way, adoption is no easy road. There may be "millions of children out there," but being blessed to bring one into one's home is an uphill battle to say the least.
I too pray that these uninformed people never have to face what Infertility feels like- there are no words to describe the grief. And then to read an article that offers hope and see comments like these- simply reveals another layer of the devasation infertility can deliver... that so many people feel like we're not allowed to feel that sadness and grief and that we somehow "don't deserve" to have children. It's just cruel. I pray that next time, they think before they post something so hurtful.
After reading that article I only wished this discovery was made 15 years ago. My husband and I experienced the exact same problem and we did everything we could to conceive but were not successful. No doctor could understand why this was happening. So to those who are still struggling, do not give up or you will have regrets later in life. Those who never experienced infertility will never understand what its like so I can't blame them for feeling the way they do.
Ignore the people on this comment board. They are frequently inconsiderate and thoughtless. It scary to think that so many people like this have populated the earth. Must be those mutated sperm that made it upstream anyway.
Musta' been all the Owsley I gobbled in the 60's
Does the earth need more humans?
And all this time I thought my sperm were just lazy because they're south of the border.
Yeah, yeah ... I know ... Jesus hates me
Dear TW 15, forgive them all, they don´t know what they are saying.
Keep trying, have faith!!!
The world is being destroyed by over population and all we need is fertility science screwing with the natural balance. Have we not learned yet there are times man should not be messing with mother nature.
tw-15,
forgive them all, don´t know what they are saying.
keep trying, with faith.
Fix it? Heck, I'm hoping I have it... that's like a free ticket for me and my wife to forgo all birth control we're currently using, and enjoy ourselves. We have no plans on having a child of our own, and will likely adopt should we decide we want to expand our family.
I was thinking the same thing...and when the girl you are sleeping with tries to blackmail you with the prospects of being pregnant...you have nothing to worry about and Jerry Springer would be out of a job...LOL
There are too many people on the planet already. Adopt.
While I have sympathy for couples who cannot concieve, there are plenty of children around the world who need homes. This genetic mutation is called natural selection. Maybe that person wasn;t meant to have a child by design?
There are all kinds of genetic mutations that can be treated medically at the present time. Should we not treat ANY of those conditions because it's "natural selection"?
" For couples who have the genetic mutation doctors can use insemination to get the sperm right next to the eggs and overcome the handicap. If that relatively simple intervention doesn't work, they can resort in vitro fertilization"
Isn't that just what they have been doing all along? This discovery is interesting as far as the cause is concerned, but the remedy doesn't sound like anything new to me.
2 pumps and a squirt...
EGGHEAD,
LOL! I think that's called "premature ejaculation", and it doesn't really have anything to do with how well sperm can swim. But that's a good one.
No reason to fool around with mother natures birth control. If the sperm is mutated it's mutated for a reason. Evolution at work, and who are we to reveres that decision.
I had reason to believe that I was infertile a few months ago. My husband and I are nowhere near ready to have children, but it really made me think about it. I understand many couples' desire to have their own children, but after long consideration, I've come to the conclusion that the reasons I have for wanting "our own" child were a little shallow. For example, I want to name my child and I'm curious to see what he or she would look like. In the grand scheme of things, these are sacrifices I'm willing to make in order to give a home to a child in need. Despite the fact that I actually can have children, I found that adoption is something I really want for myself and my family.
Wow, first we have comments telling infertile couples to adopt because having your own kids is selfish, and now we have Gary criticizing someone who DOES choose adoption. Men sure do love telling women what to do or not do with their bodies.
Gary-- I believe we all have free will. Any couple is free to pursue adoption. Any couple is also free to pursue infertility treatments if they so desire. The burden of adopting all the children in the world should not fall to couples who happen to be unlucky in this one area.
I hope you never reproduce or adopt so that your ignorance may die with you.
Wow, I just looked at this again and although I doubt anyone will read this, I have to say it:
Gary- First of all, you're a troll. Secondly, adoption is not "for infertile couples," it's FOR CHILDREN who don't have families. The focus in an adoption is not the fertility or infertility of a couple. The focus is the child and providing that child with a family. PLUS it's well documented that couples who were thought to be "infertile" get pregnant after adopting. According to you, we should take their adopted child away since they're not qualified to adopt.
Another thing that really does not need a cure, humans have overpopulated the world as it is.
G
G
Could be possibly related to the contamination of our waterways. Reproductive issues as well as other mutations have been observed in aquatic life found in our polluted waterways.
Kiki...I dont think we live in ponds the way frogs do.
No, 11madness, we don't live in ponds but we sure do live on some HUGE islands! ..... surrounded by the sludge in our oceans caused by fracking, oil spills, toxic run off, and just plain dumping of garbage in our waters by corporate douchebags.
Broaden your horizons. Put down the microscope for one second and get out your binoculars! It's right there in front of your face.
Yes KIKI, Birth control drugs have been detected in the Thames river. IT comes from urine from the women in England. The water treatment plants do not filter birth control and other drugs. And just think this week, New York is dumping raw sewage into the hudson river, unimpeded, because their water pumps are not working. THat is somebody's drinking water, somewhere.
"It's not nice to fool around with Mother Nature."
They want to finish wrecking humanity or any chance that the planet will have a chance.
Great, with the population time bomb the number one problem facing down humanity, do we really need more mouths to feed and arm?
And the correct answer is NO. But too many selfish women spread their legs and nine months later crank out another idiot we have to deal with. Make women sterile today. I am going to start supporting Bill Gates and his effort to lower the population. Good work Bill, keep it up.
What time bomb? They were saying that 40 years ago. The pop of the developed countries is already at zero to negative growth. Much of the dev countries moving that way as well.