I agree with the findings of this study. However, some so-called treatment or support groups still exclusively push the behavior modification method.

Addicts should be referred to a good psychiatrist to be evaluated for depression, anxiety, personality disorders, and inherited tendencies which are often at the heart of addictive behaviors.

These problems can often be helped by medication (including naltrexone as mentioned above) along with counseling. In addition, a physician can evaluate the addict for blood sugar problems, thyroid problems, chronic pain, and so on.

Overcoming addictions frequently takes more than just willpower. Involving phycians with specific training in treating the whole person with an addiction (or multiple addictions) often results in a higher success rate than willpower, jailing, shaming, religion, or group meetings alone.

There is no question that addiction is a physiological and/or psychological problem. However, while reading this article, it struck me that there is no "normal". Everyone has a problem...depression, heart disease, diabetes, autism, nicotine dependence, etc. It's great when treatments can be developed that are truly beneficial, but it appears that we are all going to eventually be taking one prescribed medication or another, like in some futuristic, Orwellian novel.

How do you intend to treat or cure medical conditions without chemicals. Most medical problems are not solved with food.

For some it may be primarily physiological, but due to the brain's plasticity, a non-addictive behavior can become physiological once that behavior has been exercised enough. Brain cells that fire together wire together.

The issue for many is to be aware of the signs a behavior is becoming addictive so it can be stopped before it becomes hard-wired into the brain. After that, good luck with the chemicals. Sadly big pharma will likely own you.

Im torn on this study.

And I think the fact that they included Diabetes is whats making me torn.

Are we talking about Type 1 Diabetes, which is considered more of a genetic diabetes (even though they dont really know).

or are we talking about Type 2 Diabetes, where the problem is created through poor diet and exercise?

Because the latter is self-inflicted. And the solution is simple, eat right...exercise...lose weight, and VOILA goodbye Diabetes.

To me, addiction is self-inflicted...and the solution is simple, avoid that which you are addicted to - and find a healthy thing to become addicted to in order to feed ones addictive tendencies.

I dont think we'd treat a person addicted to exercising the way we'd treat a person addicted to eating, or drinking, or doing drugs.

And as such, thats why im struggling to accept this notion that its a "disease"...its probably only labelled as such for those addicted to unhealthy things. Not that the addiction itself is the disease.

HELP, IM ADDICTED TO WATCHING TV! no seriously...can I get on disability, I just cant stop watching!

I have seen a number of hard-drug addicts who after they got themselves clean would immediately go and start some other kind of addiction.

One guy gained about 100 pounds because he was eating like a maniac.

Another started gambling and in a short time was so hooked that nobody could even talk to him about it. Despite losing thousands of dollars he kept asserting that he didn't have a problem. The same thing he did while he was addicted to cocaine.

To me this just reinforces that there is something that goes on in the brains of these people where they almost can't help themselves from getting into these addictions.

.

"How do you intend to treat or cure medical conditions without chemicals. Most medical problems are not solved with food."

you couldnt be more wrong...and most often, its eliminating a food that cures the medical problem. not eating something, to cure your problem.

heart disease, diabetes, high cholestoral, high blood pressure...all cured by eating healthy and exercising. its just that most people want to hit the easy button, and take chemicals so they dont have to change their lazy unhealthy ways.

While I will concede that in SOME cases the addiction is truly a brain disorder, to just blanketly label all addictions as a "brain disorder" is to give a "Get out of jail free card" to anyone that chooses to do whatever they damned well please by labeling it as a "Disorder or Disease". There are those in the world that are truly suffering from a disorder that makes them susceptible to addictive behavior, but there are a lot more IMO that will use this as an excuse for not being responsible or accountable. Is that what we really need; more people to act like congressmen because it really is a brain disorder?

United States "To me this just reinforces that there is something that goes on in the brain of these people where they almost can't help themselves from getting into these addictions"

Is it possible we are all addicted to something, most of us just choose healthy things to be addicted to (like work, exercise, watching tv, reading books, ect)?

I sometimes feel like im addicted to watching tv, because I do it so often and even when I know I should be more productive...I just sit there and veg out in front of the tv.

Or do you think I just make bad choices? How are we to know the difference.

If you took away the tv, id survive...but id find something else to do with my time....just like the coke addict did. id probably read more books. can you be addicted to reading?

@ Jessica:

....or are we talking about Type 2 Diabetes, where the problem is created through poor diet and exercise?

Because the latter is self-inflicted. And the solution is simple, eat right...exercise...lose weight, and VOILA goodbye Diabetes.

That could not be more false. Type 2 diabetes has all sorts of causes and is not limited to poor dietary or general health choices. I was a relatively skinny vegetarian type when I discovered I had type II.

And even more false is your assertion that correcting diet and lifestyle will make diabetes disappear once you have it. Those things may help manage it, but will not cure it.

Neuropsych... really an amazing step in medicine. For the first time we are able to see the brain in action. We can see the parts are of the brain that are active while thoughts are taking place. In the past all the information we had about the brain was how the body reacted to a certain medication. Maybe now effective treatments for people who have a life threatening mental illness and cannot effectively sustain a healthy lifestyle might be helped.

I am sure these scientists and medical professionals did not make this decision lightly as some people seem to indicate. And I do think the media was being liberally biased reporting this. Maybe it will inspire people to look into neuropsych and understand how these decisions are made. What the technology is actually about. It is really amazing to see brain scans of people doing certain activities or in certain psychological states.

Mental illness is a state of mind. A way the brain functions. The way the brain fires and pathways the thoughts follow.

heart disease, diabetes, high cholestoral (sic), high blood pressure...all cured by eating healthy and exercising.

Jessica - why is it that ignorant people such as yourself feel the need to post their opinions as thought they are facts. Your statement is false. To a great extent, the genes that we inherit from our parents determine whether we develop heart disease, diabetes, high cholesterol and high blood pressure. My father was never overweight a day in his life and he was physically active, but he inherited genes from his father that caused him to have uncontrollable high cholesterol that eventually resulted in a heart attack that killed him at an early age. His father died the same way. A tendency toward high blood pressure can be inherited. That is why African Americans tend to be at greater risk for high blood pressure. A woman who exercises and is of ideal weight but who developes gestational diabetes has a greater chance of developing Type 2 diabetes later in life.

Try taking a course in human physiology and doing your research before posting personal opinions as though they are facts.

To me, addiction is self-inflicted.

That is precisely the opposite of what the study said. Instead of bending over backwards to BLAME someone, try helping them instead. It will make you a better person...which you seem to need very badly.

Not my problem. You get on the junk. You get off of the junk. Our taxes (money) shouldnt be thrown away on those who want to get on this stuff.

Fred, I have to disagree with you. The article talks about choice, and even admits that choice is a strong component of the equation. Riddle me this: who made the choice to put the addictive chemical in his or her body or who chose to engage in the addictive behavior?

Obviously, the addict. What the article says about that is that at that point choices start to be limited, but that even recovery requires that a person chooses to get better and takes positive action towards that end.

Your response is exactly what I fear from this article: that people will use it to excuse antisocial behavior.

With that being said, of course addiction has a physiological component. I empathize with any addict that wants to be cured, but I have nothing but revulsion for those who revel in their addictions.

What does this mean for all of the incarcerated people with drug addictions?

Seems to me they are not criminals in the sense of the word.

They would need some kind of Medical Treatment.

I have an addiction issue and I have learned that you can control it without medication. Although I applaude the study and the findings, I wonder if you will now be eligable for SSI disability for this medical condition? I was lucky that I am able to contol my life with out medication, I am lucky that I was able to stay sober for so long now. It is a constant struggle and one that I win every day.

Great! Where do we all sign up for disability checks? I'm sure that most people are addicted to something. Maybe we can finallysap all of the money out of the private sector to pay for government programs. I'm sure the Government can raise enough taxes to make sure 90% of the population can sit on our butts until we have to go pick up our disability check. Hmm, what Post Office. Crap can't afford that either.

Every criminal defense lawyer just added another page to their list of excuses they can use to exonerate their clients.

Translation: My fellow shrinks, we're losing out on billions of federal "treatment" dollars. And once we latch on to a patient, it's a lifetime income source (since they're never going to be cured.) Yeah, sure, the "success" rate for drug rehab is about 1% but, heck, this study proves it's impossible since it's not a behavioral problem, it's a medical one. (Hand to forehead--if only we'd known!) Let all those people out of jail and let's start billing the government for weekly sessions where we'll work even harder to convince them it's not their fault (we can even prove it's cheaper.) Now let's start working on kleptomania since it is obviously a related medical condition, after all, how can you buy meth if you don't steal?

The great purposes of school can be realized better in dark, airless, ugly places than in beautiful halls. It is to master the physical self, to transcend the beauty of nature. School should develop the power to withdraw from the external world.

http://www.spinninglobe.net/condunces.htm

Self-alienation leads to mental illness which is the reason for so much violence, and addictions. It is the silent American plague.

Our taxes (money) shouldnt be thrown away on those who want to get on this stuff.

But let's guess, you have no problem throwing our money at keeping this stuff illegal? Spending billions to keep these "criminals" locked up in our overstuffed jails? Spending billion more on "tactical" approaches to weeding out the bad guys?

Oooo, look at how big my gun is - pow pow!

Compensating for something?

Flash5

Jessica don't be deterred by ABCzyx liberal indoctrination thought process (Parents were most likely Hippies). They (liberals) always like to think they are superior because they quote intellectuals and their years working (hiding) in Tax Payer Funded Academia (Can't Get A Job In The Private Sector).

Flash, STFU. Sorry, I'm addicted to telling idiots to STFU... can't reallyhelp it when I read something so self-serving.

People wake up. These pharma sponsored studies invent maladies for which a drug is the cure. Once the malady is on the list, prescriptions can be legally written for it. For example, Sadness is a prescriptable malady now according to the law. Big business. There's a pill for everything and a dollar sign on it.

It'll really be great when we can kick our addiction to "experts".

Why are some people alcoholics and not others? My father was an alcoholic, but I'm not. I have no craving for it. You have to have a susceptibility along with an opportunity to discover it. Once you tamper with those neurotransmitters, the jig is up.

Gee... It isn't due to immorality afterall huh? I guess the 12 step alcoholics anonymous programs should be banned as a court appointed option since the program entirely revolves around God and morality being at the heart of addiction.

This should be about as good for America as pretending obesity is a disease, thereby removing personal responsibility from the equation.

Hey everybody do whatever the hell you want, you're not responsible, you're special.

Amazing...simply amazing. What are the chances of those that make a living off of other people's addictions defining addiction as a non-curable, but treatable disease (and hey folks, WE just happen to have the treatment for ya for the low, low price of...!!), huh? As a 20+ year junkie that put the needle down and just walked away from it almost a decade ago - with NO 12-step religion, NO meetings, NO "sharing" my 'sordid' past with a room full of strangers, I can testify that it is NOT a disease, or mental disorder. Unless you equate 'want' with 'must have' and the inability to say "NO!" to oneself as a disease. Just like the pharmaceutical companies and their pet quacks constantly inventing a physical or psychological "disorder" that they just happen to have a pill for. Of course, you'll only have to take it FOR THE REST OF YOUR MEDICATED LIFE!! But hey - YOU won't have to pay for it; your medical insurance will...so you shouldn't care that 1 pill will cost $30 or more. It's not like its YOUR money, is it? Now everything will be just fine...you're not responsible for being a junkie or a drunk - {oops, how politically incorrect of me - "addict" or "alcoholic" - is that better?} - and just trust in the drug and insurance companies, the "professionals" {the doctors and "counselors" and assorted 'addiction specialists'} to take care of you and all your bad decisions...with the help of your benevolent guardian, the US government...all it takes is a little bit more of your taxes - from those who are able to work and are not 'disabled' with that nasty disease.

You want a REAL cure for ANY addiction? Just don't do it. It's that simple...not always EASY, but simple. Until that bottle or pill or needle can levitate on its own, pin you down and force its way into your system, then you are in control...you just choose to relinquish that control. People quit all the time - never to return to it; with the right set of circumstances, motivations, and 'want to'. Some use religion, some use their love for their spouse/family ("one more drink and I'm leaving you" has worked many, many times), some just realize that they've got other dreams and goals more important than looking at the bottom of a bottle or an empty spoon. If this wasn't true, then there's be about 40 million zoned out 60-something year-old hippies tripping on 'shrooms and acid...including some of our 'esteemed leaders' in Congress.

Hey, if they can find treatments that help with addictions, that's great.

But to say that choice has no role, and in essence "the devil made me do it" is both ridiculously too simplistic as it is unbelievable.

No doubt there are some with stronger urges, and less able to make good decisions, but at the end of the day, many if not most addicted to many of these addicts need to make better decisions.

i call it crack-a-lack'n....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acWqqn19x0g

What a bunch of BS-now let me get back to my Heroin. I can't go out and rob a gas station without my heroin. lol

Pirate Farmer, et al. - AGREE! See my more lengthy response on page 10 citing research. Medical researchers find a medical problem??? Wise saying: "If all you have is a hammer all problems look like a nail." Natural recovery (no treatment or self-help) from heroin occurs commonly. Natural recovery from other drug addictions occur even more commonly. This is a fact that is ignored by almost all in the addiction field - yet it is very, very true.

This story sure sounds like the all-too-typical "Not my fault!"

the lack of empathy regarding this article is making me sick. all of you "holier than thou" people are appalling. how dare you judge someone when you haven't lived their life, or walked in their shoes.

how privileged you are to never have had any kind of issue, that you're perfect - perfect weight, perfect face, perfect life, perfect job, perfect spouse, etc. must be hard carrying all that perfectness on your perfect shoulders.

no one said there shouldn't be accountability for criminal actions.

imagine what this world would be like if all you perfect people would look at someone who was less fortunate than yourself and reach out to help. oh, my bad, that's not in your perfect vocabulary. the only thing you seem to be capable of is degrading and ridiculing.

kind of like kicking a dog when it's already down. yea i bet you do that too.

They are not perfect. They lack empathy, reading comprehension skills, critical thinking skills, a desire to better themselves and an awareness of how and why they behave like morons. They think the article says "go do drugs and alcohol" because it is a disease of the brain, your not responsible. Or, we just figured out a way to bill someone for the rest of their lives.

Instead of understanding that there is a choice for the person who has an addiction and this helps the medical community know how to better treat the problem. Like anyone with a disease, you have to take care of it and constantly be reminded that you have the disease but make the correct choices. Like a diabetic, I am sure they love sugar but they can't eat that and thousands other foods.

Someone with ignorant disease should investigate a subject before making comments like the ones I listed above. Typical grammar school mentality. Which one of you are running for prom king again this year?

raven - No, I don't kick dogs, down or not.

I smoked for years, and with the temporary help of smokeless, I got off of tobacco completely. I drank like a fish. I still do have an occasional drink but haven't been to a bar for years. If this arrangement becomes a problem, I will take steps necessary to fix it. What I won't do is try to find excuses and rationalizations for my behavior. I think these last things are steps that one must go through (assuming of course, that they want to), before they can change their behavior.

David & Raven ~ I make no excuses for my committing crimes and going to prison...and this whole thing is about excuses. I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT: 'cuz I was a heroin/meth junkie for many years. I know it is a choice...and ONLY a choice. You can go ahead and believe the drivel of some self-appointed "expert" drug counselor or medical quack who have vested interests in defining drug addiction as a disease (whether physical or mental) and incurable; thus assuring themselves a steady source of income if it makes you feel better. But I HAVE walked in the shoes of a junkie - I HAVE lived the life. Neither your misguided empathy nor the quacks can or will convince me otherwise. Because, see, you can come up with all the 'scientific studies' and 'data' you want; I've got the one thing that trumps your hypothesis and theories = actual real-life experience. Mine, and as a first-hand witness to others. Since I CHOSE to quit almost a decade ago - WITHOUT 12-steps, or "counseling", I have been in the presence of people doing several different types of drugs. I often go into the only source of social activity in this small town (besides christian churches) and have a soda pop and play some pool. I don't 'white knuckle' it, I don't fiend or have cravings, I don't have a built-in alibi for returning to drugs known in the 12-step doctrines as "relapse". I did something very, very simple in order to never have to worry about none of that BS again.

My "secret" cure?

I quit.

Why would you - or anyone else without a vested interest in having an ongoing 'drug problem' in this country want this NOT be the way of it? I've proven it works in the only "laboratory" that really matters: real life. I'm not the only one: check out "Rational Recovery".

I'm no longer an addict, a junkie or a drunk.

I'm a farmer.

Oh. I forgot to say in the post above (and didn't edit until too late), that the only place in this small town to socialize is a bar. Without that info, it almost reads as if I was referring to a dope house.

Sorry 'bout that.

Everyone is not the same.

OneDirtyRat: Sounds like an excuse to fail.

What are ya, a U.S. Marine?

Failure is a part of life. To not have it, we wouldn't know the endeavors of success.

But when you expect to fail, you will. Only failures develop excuses even before the need...success needs no excuses, nor seldom any explanations. A marine? No. But look at a good marine: when they DO fail (and being human, of course they do fail), they don't quit or give excuses...they get back up and...succeed. Same goes with most of our fighting forces, including the women. It's not that 'failure is not an option'...its just not an acceptable one. What you indicate w/ your post is that its okay to continuously fail. Then, of course, to live without lowering one's self-esteem, it's much better to just come up with a no-fault excuse - such as it being a "disease" or "handicap' for whatever the failure was...certainly not the CHOICE of the "victim", to fail, huh? Yet that is EXACTLY what a junkie does...choose options that continue to allow him/her to enjoy the benefits of self-indulgence drug use without regard to the negative aspects. The benefits of extreme drug/alcohol use is DEEEEP PLEASURE. Nothing else is as important as that pleasure. I've known many, many people that degrade themselves or allow others to degrade them, for the pleasure of the dope. They don't like the degradation...but the dislike doesn't outweigh the pleasure the dope gives them. If it did, they'd quit. Your alibis for them (or yourself, perhaps?) doesn't change that. With this latest "study", there's no need to add some pride to their backbone, straighten up and be somebody. They've now got yet ANOTHER "scientific" excuse to fail. Like my Granny taught me: you can have 99 reasons to fail; you only need ONE reason to succeed: "Cuz I want to". Failure is not supposed to be an acceptable way of being...failure is supposed to have attached to it stigmas that motivate one to succeed. As you may have gathered from this post, I'm not buying into any 'feel good' philosophy nor this attempt by some of the 'psychological professionals' to feed off of this cash cow they call drug addiction.

pirate,ur a arrogent judgemental "farmer"growing nothing more than your Ego,obviosly,got nothing better to do than jump on ur soap box and spout off about things u "read"good for u that u beat ur addictions,with self generated self help self,self,self......wow,what a great person u are.if every body was as great as u we wouldnt have any problems in the world,huh? dude the world is bigger than just your little town,your SELF centered attitudes,at the core of most all behavioral addictions is selfishness,hmmmbeing opinionated....think your still afflicted. not sayin i agree with the original post just sayin i dissegree with everyones opinions, YES OPINIONS,just because you have some experiance in the matter does not make you an expert in the matter, close ur neck!!

Re: There is no question that addiction is a physiological and/or psychological problem. However, while reading this article, it struck me that there is no "normal". Everyone has a problem...depression, heart disease, diabetes, autism, nicotine dependence, etc. It's great when treatments can be developed that are truly beneficial, but it appears that we are all going to eventually be taking one prescribed medication or another, like in some futuristic, Orwellian novel.

Yes, We'll still be addicts, only now we are addicted to acceptable substances, right?

BTW. What are they going to do about the one addiction that is overlooked by most everyone - the addiction to our own SELF IMAGE? What is the society going to do about that one?

Reality check time is here. We are all addicts of one kind or another. It is a part of living a life, so lets all just drop the judgements and labeling and, as the song says, "get on with sickness."

I'll tell you the one addiction that is tied to the self image problem and is causing us, as a society, more problems than any of the others - intollerance. If we can cure that one, then we could all live together in Peace. What a concept.

pirate:

(and being human, of course they do fail)

That is pretty much all I was trying to say.

What you indicate w/ your post is that its okay to continuously fail.

I never indicated any such thing.

Your alibis for them (or yourself, perhaps?) doesn't change that.

Nope, don't need any alibis here.

With this latest "study", there's no need to add some pride to their backbone, straighten up and be somebody. They've now got yet ANOTHER "scientific" excuse to fail.

I highly recommend you NEVER open your own rehab clinic. You surely would be sued at some point.

Failure is not supposed to be an acceptable way of being...failure is supposed to have attached to it stigmas that motivate one to succeed.

If stigmas were your primary motivator then you have lost from the get-go.

As bumpy444 has pretty much all ready told you,

if every body was as great as u we wouldnt have any problems in the world,huh?

So everyone is not the same. Some people fail while others succeed. Some people succeed without barely lifting a finger while others toil all of their lives and never succeed. I'm glad that you were strong enough to overcome your failures but people are different and you can NOT judge everyone because you are not everyone.

As you may have gathered from this post, I'm not buying into any 'feel good' philosophy nor this attempt by some of the 'psychological professionals' to feed off of this cash cow they call drug addiction.

You know everything isn't a conspiracy.

Just what would you suggest for the treatment for addicts? Are you for perpetuating the drug war? Are you for the legalization of marijuana?

Just curious.

My suggestion for "treating" the drug addiction of so many? Let them. It's not up to the government or society to protect people from failing. Decriminalize the drugs, just as they have alcohol. If someone chooses then to be a junkie or drunk, be reduced to living in alleys, or whatever...let them. If they commit a crime for the drug or while under the influence, then attack that behavior...not merely the fact they've done drugs. Why outlaw drugs? The most common response is along the lines that drug abuse ruins families and society. Take a look around you...putting people in jails and prison for merely using a drug also ruins families and society. Why do people feel everyone in America has the right to succeed, but not the right to fail? I'm not arrogant - I'm self-respectful and full of pride. I've earned that, after trampling my pride, degrading my ego, and leaving my own self-image laying in the gutter, one day I had enough, I picked my pride up, dusted it off, hosed it down and put it back where it belongs - as the centerpiece of my spirit that motivates me to being the best d**n me I can be. ANYONE can do it - you might not like that idea, but it's true. Why would I open a rehab clinic? That's my point - pay attention this time: you don't need someone to 'cure' you of addiction, you just need you. Having friends and family that will help you is a lot more useful than some paid stranger. Here's my proof: Look at the number of college students who spend 4 or so years partying their a**es off, doing massive quantities of drugs and alcohol. Look at how many 5 years later have actually dropped those habits (addictions), decided that they have other goals and dreams in life, and have graduated and gone on to new lifestyles achieving and pursuing those goals and dreams. Most with the help of friends and families, if needed...few with the stigma of going through a drug rehab program. I don't set myself up as some sort of 'look at me' type --> although you wish to paint me that color. I'm merely saying that I am a living example of what I am saying...while you two spout meaningless, unverified drivel, while casting aspersions on my being a farmer (what was the point of THAT??), try to insult me (accusing me of talking out my neck), while never addressing the issue, itself. You attack me, hoping that will dilute my statements. Not a soapbox, no more than yours, in fact. Just a posting that states an opinion while giving my own personal life as validation, not mere speculation and personal attacks, as by you. You're going to try to refute the knowledge and experience of a totally recovered drug addict when you've never been one? So, (presuming that you're a guy), what's next? Try to explain to a female rape victim that you actually know more about what she went through than she does? That's like a draft-dodger telling a soldier what it really means to go to war. So who's really the ones talking out the side of their necks, hhmmm? I wouldn't really care, but you take MY tax dollars to throw at some "professionals" who openly admit that they can't achieve success with their own techniques and theories, in the mental masturbation of feeling like you are thus helping society and the poor, afflicted addicts. You're what the 12-steppers call an 'enabler".

Have a good evening, anyways...I'm off to feed my ice cream addiction. {Gee, do I qualify for a disability check for that?}

hey pirate, if you have nothing good to say, be a good soldier and move on. you got nothing to add other than rhetoric and nonsensical gibberish. remove your head from being rectum defalcated soldier and you may just see something, other than that, fall in line private and take the position because i'm about to give you something you need and that's focus. don't move until i give you permission you fool...what a joke you are...i hope you stay a private for you 4 years stint and end up a dope addict dumb ass, now that will be a bit ironic won't it. hope no one helps your pathetic ass.........quack

Hey Eddie...you make about as much sense as a pay toilet in a diarrhea ward. It's amazing how defensive people get to any suggestion that drug addiction is not a disease. That makes three of you so far that deny the validity of my experiences, yet without actually offering any personal experience-based knowledge to refute it. But since this is no longer a conversation but merely two sides not even listening to or trying to comprehend each other, I'm done with it. Enjoy your ignorance.

first of all piratetheif, you're not done until i say you're done...and you are not smart enough to even give a point of view other than one of total ignorance. that's all you have my friend and my guess is you will be found wanting soon enough. you're not even a moving target, got to love the irony. with you in all your worldly wisdom, denounce that addiction is not a disease parallels when the greatest minds on earth thought the world was flat and yet, everything they looked at in the sky was round. your prejudices have your mind in a deep dark place but if you actually think you're a go getter living in that double wide then, live in your bliss but you are not innocent my pirate friend. isn't it so, pirates are thieves you numb nuts jar head?

Here-here! Treatment for the addiction is what's needed, not incarceration for a diagnosed addiction. However we still need to work on preventing drugs and alcohol being sold to children.

how about we take whatever state and local taxes are levied on booze (and make drugs legal and tax it too) and then use those taxes to treat addicts, or keep them locked up in rehab centers if they arent so interested in dealing with their "diseases".

As much as I see no need to fill jails and prisons with drug addicts and drunks, I also see no reason to leave drunks drive around trying to kill people unintentionally, all because its their "disease" doing it...not them.

We have to balance public safety with treating personal addictions.

Remember, not everyone see's their problems as a problem...and that, is a major problem. You cant just slap a drunk on the wrist after crashing into a van full of kids...simply because it's the "disease" at work.

If a crime is committed whether it is a 3rd offense drunk driving or robbing a 7-11 to feed a habit, do you honestly feel that we should NOT lock them up? I don;t think we should allow their addiction to keep them from personal responsibilty. Treatment in Jail and Prison...absolutely but don;t put society at risk because of their addiction.

Almost all of the social damage that comes from drug abuse (other than alcohol) is due to the illegality (read expensive inaccessibility) of the drugs and not from the consumption of the drugs themselves.

That drug abuse is a medical problem and not one that can be effectively dealt with by the justice system is a given by nearly everyone who has any experience with the situation except those of course who make a bundle of money off the system as it is.

Quite interesting. However there is far to many lobby's and too much money in locking them up as it were. To much flow of cash into a criminal based system that America" l;and of the free" perpetuates at a disproportionate level in comparison with other countries. The fact is if you have MONEY it will change your outlook and that of your physician. But as far as the criminal justice system is concerned?

Have you EVER heard a D.A. apologize for wrongly convicting one? The only D.A. I EVER heard apologize for anything was the guy from the Duke lacrosse case ; ]

Cheers

what_the_81

Still stuck on the Hope and Change thing I see. I know yours is different, but I had to chuckle when I read it.

Touchdownplay

I was implying not to lock everyone up who uses drugs. But I like how people like you have the imagination to assume I meant something else.

Gee, like I didn't say your meaning was different. Sorry to have some fun with you. I guess this ain't no laughing matter. Now take a deep breath, it wasn't personal. :)

Just because a medical society says its so in their classification, doesn't mean the laws will change. You'd have to convince a whole lot of people in a whole lot of places to put "addiction" itself as a mitigating factor in sentencing...and you tell me the politiicians who are going to do that?

We have an indifferent mental health industry, counselors that charge outrageous fees for their services, insurance companies unwilling to support treatment. Psychiatrists want to give everyone a pill instead of talk to people. Have you ever tried to use the mental health portion of your insurance? And with disregard for people's privacy, who would want to put it on their record? So that it can be used against them?

Having a brother and sister-in-law who are addicts, I've gone from being angry at their stupid decisions and life choices, to understanding that it's a mental problem - a disease. Should they be locked up in jail? No. If they robbed a store to feed their habit - yes. If they drive under the influence and kill someone, of course they should go to jail.

But, the problem should be address well before that happens. The problem my family ran into in dealing with my brother is that the addicts become great manipulators and put themselves in charge of their lives and make other around them adjust - and pick up the pieces. What needs to happen, is to have laws allowing family of addicts to have the addict deemed incompetent and take away some of their rights - just like you would a mentally insane person. The rights/privileges taken away would vary depending on the addict - driver's license, ability to manage their own finances, etc. Turn the law around so that the addict can only earn his rights back once he's drug-free for one or two years. Yes, take the drivers license away BEFORE he kills someone. Take the keys too.

What bothers me about this study is...a person with absolutely no addictions, with no mental problems requiring medication can become addicted to a substance just because it is an addictive substance that they chose to try. They then become an addict. Their addiction causes problems in their lives not the other way around (in these cases). Anyone "normal" can become an addict simply because they enjoy the feeling that a particular substance gives them.

Granted I do understand that once a person becomes an addict that the addiction takes over their lives, I also understand that some addicts become addicts and use substances as a way of self medicating for other issues, whether they be mental issues or physical issues. I do not however feel that all addicts have a "pre-existing" condition that can be compared to that of heart disease or something of the like.

I once knew this woman who was addicted to crack. She didn't work, never worked her whole adult life (She was in her late 30's early 40's when I met her). She received housing assistance that paid for her $800/month apartment, she received medicaid that covered everything, she received enough food stamp money that it could feed my family of 4 (for the whole month), and of course energy assistance and even a nearly free phone, and on top of all of that she received about $600 in cash assistance for all of her other "needs". So basically this woman (single) had a higher income then myself (supporting a family of 4), and got it all just for being an addict. Never paid into anything her entire life but decided to try crack one day and enjoyed it so much that she became addicted to it and now gets to live the rest of her life scott-free and never paying a penny of her own earned money, just the earned money of everyone else. And to boot she even had a savings account opened with that nice cash assistance she received for free and then gained interest on it too.

So here is the reason why I don't feel that addiction should be classified as anything other than a really stupid choice, with very serious consequences. Consequences that include psychological issues because of all the chemicals that is taken to their brain from their "drug of choice".

and got it all just for being an addict.

Let's be clear. Are you saying the woman got her welfare from being a crack addict or did she become one after she qualified for the assistance? If she is getting assistance for being an addict that wouldn't be right. Or did she qualify for assistance for other reasons besides being an addict?

No, like I said, she was on assistance because she was an addict, and being an addict was considered to have a certain disability that "prevented" her from working. She could work, but chooses her addiction because it is much more convenient, she can remain an addict, her habit is supported, and she doesn'thave to pay a single penny of her OWN money. Sorry, but being on assistance doesn't make you an addict, or even more likely to be an addict. Regardless of how much money someone has or where that money comes from if a person has an addiction and they want to continue with that addiction they will.

Touchdownplay

*takes a deep breath*

I'm still pissed!!!

Does she work at all? I know that you must be looking for work or be working to continue your assistance where I live.

What is? Addiction?

and you sound like an expert on the subject...

proamerica-1148973

It's called STUPIDITY.

Stupid as stupid does

There are many brain neurological brain disorders.

MS Parkinsons Disease were once considered a psychiactric disorder until they discovered a physiological cause. There was a time when people with MS and Parkinson's disease were actually institutionalised.

Beers in fridge...must not drink another one.......oh just one more.....no can't stop!!!!!!!!!! Ahhhhh.... Mmmmm beer.

I feel like I can go back to eating like a pig, now that its just a disease...and not a choice I was making.

#4.1 When was that, Carmen? ( M.S.& Parkinson's) I never heard of it, so it must have been a very long time ago.

We live in a time of INFORMATION. There are numerous studies done on many different issues. I do understand addiction, and I also understand that people can make a choice EVEN IF THEY ARE AN ADDICT. Once a person knows what their issues are, they can learn how to choose different actions that don't get negative results. You can't change what you don't know, or won't know, or don't want to know. Will it be challenging? Absolutely! Can it be done? Absolutely!

Read the first comment. There is effective and successful medication. It doesn't cure but treats.

Addiction is cunning, baffling & powerful. Even if the physical cravings are diminished, the psychological ones can remain. Sometimes not. I've been married to a sober alky for 28 yrs. In his case, he has remained sober. But he hasn't forgotten that the drunk world & the sober one are 2 VERY different places.

Why is it so hard to have empathy and compassion for a fellow person? Is the logic "I'm not a drunk, therefore no one should have these problems?" Have you ever known an alcoholic? Do you think they are drinking like that because they love destroying their lives? Without treatment, it's a slow, horrifying suicide.

Ridiculing the addicted will not rid society of them.

Maybe you aren't an addict.

Believe it or not - not everyone is just like you.

So, using the premise that not everyone is the same, it is stupid and short sighted to lump everyone who has addiction problems into one category of having a brain disorder. Addiction is too nuanced and complicated.

Everyone doesn't get cancer. Should we blame it on the people who do?

I agree! An obsessive compulsive masturbater that stays drunk 24/7 to hide his guilty feelings, shouldn't feel guilty about also being addicted to food and wearing womens' clothes, while gambling into an abyss of debt on a nightly basis after mainlining some smack and smoking a few bags of crack. It's just a brain thing man, chill out.

Carmen - those people who DO get cancer usually don't CHOOSE to get it. (yeah, yeah, you can all leave out the comments about smokers and lung cancer, etc -- I'm referring to otherwise healthy people who get breast cancer, testicular cancer, prostate cancer, etc)

Stevephx - if you decided not to address any of those issues, and just kept making excuses...you could totally say "its not my fault, I have a disease" today.

boy did you get screwed.

Like addicts choose to be addicts? Many people will never be addicts to anything; they don't have a genetic susceptibility. I could drink all day and still never develop an addiction to alcohol. People get diseases all the time; other people don't.

You are an idiot. You can't even spell addiction right. Read the dictionary a few times then go on to read news articles.

Have you considered OCD? Being obsessive and compulsive are not necessarily a bad thing. Compulsive people are just about the only ones who ever get anything done.

@lee... yes OCD is a bad thing and if not recognized early on can in itself lead to addiction.

Nope, not OCD, as far as I know. My house is far too messy to be OCD. I have a tendency to do things that make be feel good and ignore everything else. while obsessive does describe me pretty well, I don't think I fit the OCD symptoms. It's more like "This makes me feel good, so I'm going to do it over and over again" rather then "If I don't do this, I'm going to die/explode/evaporate"

cindyscrazy,

You sound exactly like me...I call it my obsessive personality. What ever I am into at the moment takes over my life :-). I also know that that is part of my addictive personality...even though I have managed to break a 30+ year nicotine habit.

I am aware that I become obsessed with a task at hand, thus I am always working on trying to find balance in my life. Is not always easy.

If you're taking a low dose anxiety pill, you are not in recovery. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Anxiety pills activate the same receptors as alcohol. A drug is a drug is a drug.

@lloyd.. totally wrong.It does work that way. it's people with your way of thinking that make OVER 1/2 of addicts not open up about their disease and seek treatrment. if a pill takes care of your cancer and you take it,would you then not be in active recovery anymore? that line of thinking is not tolerated in the recovery community at all anymore,and those that speak that are now asked to leave the rooms.

Cindy--congrats on your self-awareness. People engage in destructive behaviors because they are either: 1) self-medicating, or 2) addicts. Society tends to punish those who are addicted to illegal substances, but ignores those who pursue their medication/addiction with legal substances. Addicted and smoking cigarettes? That's ok. Addicted and injecting heroin? That's not ok.

I saw an Oprah show on the topic of women who had had gastric surgery because they were obese, and then these women became alcoholics. These women had not drunk before, but because their medication of choice (food) was not optional, they began drinking. Serial addicts will move from cigarettes to gambling to video gaming, etc. It is not just a matter of will; it is a matter of treating the reason people are self-medicating, or showing addicts that there must be balance in everything. Even something innocuous as painting your living room can be bad if it makes you ignore your family, etc.

Please do not be ashamed to say that you are on long-term medication. I myself am on meds for depression. It is not to say that a pill will solve everything, but if it helps you get a handle on your emotions so that you can recognize what is going on in your life, keep taking it. Recovery is not just about will power or the lack thereof. I wish you continued success. Only you can know when an activity is bordering on the addictive, and that takes self-awareness.

Like what you said cindyscrazy. One thing I do hear is that everyone has something to say on this subject:)

.

tacky - don't you mean Democratic voters?

uaw

get politics outta this discussion you dork.

Yet another Pharma company makes additional ch ching. Allowable cost deduction for insurance. Keep it simple and continue marketing. Sounds like a repub. thing to me.

You sound like a conspiracy theorist

Excuse me. This was not an article by "liberal media" but by a panel of certified scientists. Everytime some extremist right wing moron wants a quick and convenient comeback you always espouse the liberal media. Come on, get real!

Well, it may be hard for you to believe truthseeker 244, but I've been volunteering in a medium security prison for several years and have seen the impact of fervent prayer in the lives of many "offenders" incarcerated for various drug crimes. A number who have changed their lives to sincerely follow Jesus have left prison with a new inner power that has allowed them to kick the drug and other destructive habits. Graduates of the "Kairos" prison ministry program have recidivism rates of about 1/4 that of the general prison population.

Get out of jail free cards. Praise the lord....on to tv evangelism? They need medical, and psychological help. A spiritual path is great, but not if the underlying problems are not dealt with.

So you think that substituting the religion drug for other drugs is a solution?

Let's tally the scores for how many have been killed by religion compared to how many killed by heroin.

Bull Brenemike I worked in prisons for 32 years and you are just believing what YOU want to believe. I am fine with your help in the system but most of the ones you get are the ones who stand the better chance anyway. The general pop. rates are higher because they are mostly the least likely to make it. While you do nice little things the guards deal with the real threats. So dont be so fast to pat yourself on the back.

You do realize that there is a portion of society addicted to prescription drugs. Unfortunately when one hears of addictions they automatically think of a run down drug addict....not a functioning member of society who is hiding or not facing the fact that they are addicted to prescription medications.

Besides that addictions come in many forms: cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, shopping, eating...etc. etc. etc.......

Dillweed truthseeker, who let you out of your cage? Please shut up until you have something even semi intelligent to say..

ever get those dirty looks from people when you do something simply because an impulse drove you to it... When i was trying to quit cigarettes and Cocaine at the same time... (not a smart choice) people would begrudge me for my shakes, temper, and depression... it was the same people who begrudged me my smokes... they didn't understand that i wanted to quit... but i couldn't stop myself from lighting up either, I would literally tell myself all day, you don't need that @!$%#... and then drive down to the gas station and buy a pack... and then justify smoking it because "well i bought the pack, don't want to waste em". The cocaine is gone now... the nicotine haunts me everyday.

I hear you on the cigs. I quit back in '81, and i still have a dream where i'm smoking a cigarette, but realize "i don't smoke that much anymore" and begin to calculate the # of smokes I had that day. I usually wake up at that moment. The other stuff(oh yeah, that stuff) was much easier. From alcohol to blow to heroin, cigs were the worst.

We are our brains.

.

haha just now figuring that out? yes indeed, everything is tied to your brain.

Lots of folks out there with nothing to tie to.

Yes it is called "dumb@$$" syndrome.

scatfu can't grow, up being addicted to dumb and all. it's a brain thing.

It's the suppliers that need to be locked up, not the addicts. The suppliers are sociopaths who don't give a sh*t about you or your kids, just the money that can be raised by an army of chemical dependents.

They haven't found a cure yet. There's no cure for cancer or diabeties yet either.

No one can say they quit until they pass the finish line. That would be death. Until then most have relaspses.

Addiction is too complicated and nuanced to lump everyone into a single category of having a brain disorder.

Nowhere does it state that everyone is being lumped into a single category.

Yes, but think of all the lovely homes the pharma company employees have bought with those dollars. High end zip codes!

What makes you think that you are more educated than them? You don't think that there has been decades of research to back up this claim?

Nonsense! Alcohol is prevelanet in our society. No one knows who can be addicted or not. Young people are exposed to drugs/alcohol.

In fact, to prevent it you'd have to wait beyond the age of 25 before trying either drugs or alcohol to endure you don't have the problem.

Give up the "it's the character". Science has proved you wrong.

after age 25? does the brain disease that causes addiction vanish after age 25?

you can't be addicted if you don't start....decision making...

if you start and are having problems, and continue to the same thing that's causing you problems...decision making...

No need for hysteria, Carmen. You're wrong. You're dead wrong.

Some of the most compelling information comes from studies of identical twins with identical genetic makeups. FACT: No correlation can be made to link genetics with alcohol dependence.

In fact, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism states:
"Based on our current understanding, it is probable that environmental influences will be at least as important, and possibly more important, than genetic influences. "

If you're not an addict, then shut up. I've been an alcoholic for over 20 yrs. and my parents are NOT alcoholics or neither is my sister. I am currently sober, but there is always tomorrow. So it's not your enviroment, could be, but not my case. In case you're wondering, I'm only 44 yrs old.

Wrong, nmbg...addiction leads to the behavior.

Selective quoting, nmbg. The first sentence of the statement you quote from the NIAA says:

"Progress has been made in understanding genetic vulnerability to alcoholism. We know, for instance, that more than one gene is likely to be responsible for this vulnerability. We now must determine what these genes are and whether they are specific for alcohol or define something more general, such as differences in temperament or personality that increase an individual's vulnerability to alcoholism."

Not only that, but in the commentary after the sentence you quoted, the author continues:

"Success in uncovering the genes involved in a vulnerability to alcoholism will help us to recognize the potential for alcoholism in high-risk individuals, to intervene at an early stage, and to develop new treatments for alcohol-related problems. This is a productive area of research that will continue to yield important answers to the basic questions of what causes alcoholism and how we can prevent and treat it."

Why did you quote only the one sentence in the paragraph that supports your position?

The NIAA in no way debunks the idea that there isn't some kind of genetic component to alcoholism or addiction. And twin studies do show some concordance between alcoholism in identical twins.. more than in fraternal twins.

The whole article at about. com on the genetics of alcoholism is a good one.

goes into quite an overview of the twin studies and related research.

So in conclusion, there's no conclusion, which debunks the whole premise of this article.

@nmbg ... I am probably as liberal as it gets. However, I 100% agree with your top post. Behavioral indiscipline leads to physiological changes and addition. And yes one MUST assume personal responsibility for one's wellbeing. God/Nature has given most of us such a wonderful present in terms of the sound body when born and it is our duty to preserve it to the best of our abilities.

One thing we'll never be short of in this country is judgmental people. One of the quotes near the center of this thread nailed it in my opinion; vulnerability. My grandfather was an alcoholic. My five uncles on that side of the family all died of alcoholism. My brother is close to being dead from it. I haven't drank in 32 years but had a problem by my mid twenties.

Why can't some people acknowledge that there are things they just can't emotionally accept? I have an addictive personality/mind, whatever you want to call it. I was seriously burned early in life with resulting skin grafts. I became addicted to the morphine administered and still can't take an opioid withought developing cravings. I guess it was my fault that it happened, right?

It's a hard thing to accept. I made a decision my brother has been unable to make. If you were to observe him there would be no question in your mind about the physical addiction to alcohol.

Using drugs and alcohol may lead to addiction, just as making bad choices (such as smoking) leads to cancer, or eating unhealthy foods leads to diabetes or heart attacts.

The point is that if we can remove the moral judgements and treat people as if they have a disease, then progress can be made.

Were is your compassion.

Diane

It's a poor coping skill regardless of what these bozos claim.

Nmbg What! I love when clueless people still have a need to be heard. Actually the addiction is just many symptoms of the disease.I AM A 4TH GENERATION ALCOHOLIC ( thank God for recovery)My Dad was a alcoholic when I was growing up and I definetely learned some bad behaviors (another symptom of the disease)but I drank because of my disease .If you dont have it you cant even fathom to understand. Thank God they (ASAM) took a closer look at the chronic disease of addiction. Maybe now more insurance companies have to treat provide more assistance to the still sick and suffering . Oh Yeah Diane There are problem drinkers (you) and people with one of the most deadly diseases out there. It"S a disease not a discrace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

disagree with OP...while you do have to take responsibility for your addictive behavior before you can reverse them and find internal peace with your disease/behaviors, you certainly are born prone to addiction to a degree or not. Some people can simply stop, some utterly cannot without intervention and treatment....same as you can be born prone to type 2 diabetes more than another etc etc etc....your behavior can worsen the condition, be it addictive or non addictive ( drinking a ton or eating a high sugar diet for the two examples) but it can't create the condition....

no darling, what this means is these people have a diease which is not their fault and there is no cure for it therefore you and i get to pay for their drugs

Max, most insurance already covers alcohol and drug treatment.

raj

Yes 28 days for alcohol treatment regardless of the length of your addiction and 42 days for drugs even if like Ike Turner you did them for 30 years. This is another BS

report- the medical field just trying to make sure that when adjustments are made to medical insurance it won't forget them and their BS disease that's cured if you just stop using. If you stop smoking it doesn't cure lung cancer but drug addiction just requires that you stop doing the drug and recovery is just around the corner- why do they need freakin addiction specialists- why not guards to make sure they don't use?

So mature, trying to turn this discussion into a political issue! Take a break, hampster, and climb out of your parents basement for a few minutes of fresh air.

Yes and obviously you are more qualified and knowledgeable than people who have spent decades investigating this issue.

There are more screwed up people than ever before because there are more people.

Thank goodness Republicans never have addiction issues...

Ah, yes, we all long for the days of that wonderful support system that beat the hell out of my father and peddled my then-12-year-old aunt's @$$ to pay the rent. That wonderful support system of Family and Father Church, yep, nothing makes you stable and solid like getting the crap beaten out of you by your parents and buggered by your priest. That must be why Rush Limbaugh and GWB never had any substance abuse problems...

Praise the lord and pass the social phobia salad....don't forget to tith!

not everyone who repeats the same behaviors whether it be drugs, alcohol, gambling etc. becomes an addict. in order to become an addict one needs to have an addictive personality disorder. it is great that medical science is recognizing it, and contrary to some peoples beliefs most addicts are not out looking to blame something for their disease they are looking to overcome it. most also are not looking for ways to collect an ssdi check.

I bet you voted for the dumb-ass we had for President. Couldn't even form a sentence because of his coke-addled brain.

Bet you voted for him both times.

Yes, it begins by trying it the first time. Alcohol is everywhere. Drugs are available in youth and college. To prevemt it you must never try it to begin with. Don't have that drink for special events or Holidays, or that sip of wine at church.

Not to metion that drugs are necessary to treat pain. No one knows then if they can become addicted.

Like I said, gamble once a year i.e. drink your beloved wine at your beloved church, but drinking your beloved wine every single day by the bottle is the problem.

And with pain medication, doctors will give someone with a friggin' hang nails pain medication. Stop being a wine @ss, deal with the pain or fix the problem that is causing the pain. If a person becomes addicted to pain medication from a doctor then their pain is more serious and should actually be treated! Not with narcotics, maybe with exercise, surgery, or a life style change.

Ingesting chemicals obviously changes the brain. How is it if someone changes their own brain because of their actions they now have a medical problem. Doesn't make sense!

carmen; while very convenient to say "i have a "disease" and this is why i do...", addiction is not that at all.

fixing a problem like alcoholism, etc., starts with "i have a problem" and then should go to "i won't (whatever) anymore because it causes me problems"...

willpower...admission...try it! you sound like it could help you...

I have drunk a river of beer, and a good size stream of hard liquor, from eighteen to twenty five. At no time was I addicted to either but it made partying seem more fun. Which, to me, means it was my conscious decision when I drank, not someone or some made up disease that caused me to drink. I still enjoy a beer or two after exercise but seldom drink more than a six pack in a month. My father drank a lot even until he died, so if genes caused the addiction, why did it not affect me or my brothers who may drink even less than I do? I think it is bs that drinking is caused by anything other than making bad choices and/or decisions.

They're scietists. It's the wack jobs that believe every flaw is do to character.

the vast majority of flaws that create addictions are controllable by....BETTER DECISION MAKING AND WILLPOWER!

@taxed.. paying ssi for addiction was stopped many years ago. as far as ssdi goes, if your addiction if interfering with your job,that you could otherwise do normaly,then recieving benefits for that is no different than any other injury.plus you can't fake addiction like many people do with "back pain" and such and claim money falsely.

@sebrad.. by a clinical definition of addiction,willpower(or lack of) has NOTHING to do with overcoming an addiction.people with the willpower to quit such things such as drug,alcohol,etc. do not fall under the category of being an actual addict.also a true addict LACKS the ability to make better decisions for themselves without proper treatment of their disease.

may i suggest to everyone making comments about people having a "character flaw",or needing to be stronger or have more willpower to not be an addict. that the next time you,or a loved one, have uncontrolable vomiting or diarrhea that you use all of that willpower and inner strength you seem to have to make it go away, then get back to me and let me know how that worked out for you.

.... .... ..... .... it does play a part Mr. Fighter...

more so for some people than others, but the will to change is mighty powerful when dealing with "addiction" .... Inspiring that "will" is the hard part.

Making someone who feels they've no "reason", understand that they have "reason".... is difficult to say the least...

But once that "will" takes hold, and is empowered... Good things can happen....

and bad... but the empowerment of that will is what's important.

People can change. Addicts Can change.... and their will is often the central part of that change.

Some give credit to programs, some to thought doc's.... others to family...

I give them credit for being something greater than they were...

they changed.. they did it. it was their will that carried it out.

just saying... it matters.. isn't a sole factor but ...does help if the person wants to change.