They will weed out older workers

I agree, $1mm is not enough

And, you don't have to outlive your assets

Too much resource goes into healthcare for the old with little economic benefit to society...sorry, it sounds a little cold, but we could probably follow the UK model and get most of what works for old folks.

Invest in education and infrastructure.

Lot of focus on company pension. I would think vast majority of working citizens do not get pensions from their company. Those who do are lucky as it will be a thing of the past. With corporations making vast amounts of profits to satisfy wall street, workers/consumers are left in the dust. Gap between low wages and Corp. profits must close to get consumers to buy again, in turn creating jobs.

Pensions originated from a twofold notion - one as a benefit to hire the best and brightest, and secondly for pride in partial ownership of the company through investing this pension.

Not anymore, it is survival of the fittest and youngest and max profits to the owner/shareholders - you must feel privileged that they gave you a job in the first place.

strmz..absolutely correct, as mentioned in a post just above.

Private workers/unions have had to give back their pensions, in favor of that over-glorified thing called a 401. Public workers hold pensions now, over private workers, by a 3 to 1 margain. And lets not EVEN touch that thing called double dipping. So many in our small town of just over 5,000 , retire at 20 years, to STILL work for the city, drawing a pension, and a wage....sighhhh.

I kinda like that Greta girl on late nite. She keeps telling these people that say "the economy isn't that bad, things are turning around" .. that, "that's easy for you and me to say, we have jobs" .. I love it....

Well early in 2008, before the DNC primaries I would say quite a few...Now not so much. We did have that early in 2008 before the DNC Primaries. From time to time the market has risen to get there again and then dropped.

I suppose when the dust settles with a new administration in 2012 we will see where we are and start again.

Our goal was $2,000,000 and our house and cars paid off.

Roger...it can be done but not when the market will drop just because the President of the United States speaks.

Roger, yeah no kidding. I've been employed at the same job now for 23 yrs. 7 to go. Started at 25k in the beginning, now at 46k. So...rough estimate...I've averaged in the 30's k range for 30 yrs. In my lifetime I'll have brought in close to 1 million before taxes. After taxes let's say 700-800k total. Uh, I guess I shouldn't have eaten or bought a 50 year old, 1,600 sq ft ranch house or clothing afterall. Or had my daughter that got Crohn's disease. I'm screwed it appears.

Time to reserve my spot under the bridge. I don't think I'll be alone though...

jimbo,

If you are not happy with your compensation, my suggestion is to find another job or career that you will be happy with and get the compensation you want. When I started college (and I paid my way), I was interested in a variety of fields, but I chose the one I liked and had the most earning potential. I could have chosen to be a history or philosophy professor (I really like both fields), but odds are it would not have paid enough to meet my financial goals.

Also, what's wrong with working your whole life? I could probably retire in a few years, but I have no desire to do so. I may drop back to part time and do some charities, but I don't have any desire to sit around the house all day.

Ron, good post....I'm doing that now. I've become quite a good boat mechanic as a hobby. Word of mouth has gotten me a pretty good side job. I made 2k this week alone doing just that. I plan on going full time with that when I retire. Assuming people can afford boats in 7 years.

I was being somewhat sarcastic in my previous post, but a lot of people are not as fortunate as you or I. And I get really pissed when the gov't can't pay their bills and spend on idiotic things and hint that they might screw around with what I've paid into retirement.

Jimbo: Or perhaps you could have gotten more education and improved your chances of making more money. Somebody call the wambulance.

txmom32

Well early in 2008, before the DNC primaries I would say quite a few...Now not so much.

LMAO You're attempt to blame the declining millionaires on the DNC is pathetic. Watching FAUX news has destroyed your brain and given you tunnel vision. First off the number of millionaires have not declined in fact they have increased under the Bush tax cuts and secondly the recession started well before the DNC primaries and the crap hit the fan right before the election. Bush and the Republicans tried to hide it before the election but it didn't work. Now people like you try to blame the DNC??? What a joke you are.

jimbo,

This is off-topic, but as a boat owner, if you're a good mechanic with reasonable rates, I expect you'll get way more business than you can handle. We finally found a good mechanic after looking for 10 years, and the only problem is he's so busy it can be weeks or months until he can squeeze us in...but it's worth the wait. His only problem is he doesn't charge enough - so we always end up giving him at least 25% more than he charges because we don't want him to go out of business :-).

txmom: more right wing lies. The average American saved $392 a year in 2008. For Americans 65 and older, currently, total average savings was $232,000. We are not talking about AVERAGE americans when we speak of savings of a million or more. The Republicans who want to privatize or decimate social security and medicare either can't read or are simply stupid.

Larry...Maybe you don't watch the marked...I happen to and after the DNC Primary when it was announced that Obama would be the candidate the markets dropped substantially....It was the first indication of a no confidence vote from the investing public.

AP....can I see your source on that and does it include the numbers for what the Average American owed in debt?

I happen to and after the DNC Primary when it was announced that Obama would be the candidate the markets dropped substantially....It was the first indication of a no confidence vote from the investing public.

LOL, what a bunch of hooey.

First off, Democratic primaries started on January 3 and ran into June. Wait, maybe you mean the Democratic National Convention from August 25-28.

I'm curious how you assign cause to the Democratic convention which ended on a Thursday and isolate it from the Republican convention which started the following Monday.

Even if you were to show that the stock market crashed between the 28th of August and the 1st of September (it was already down about 2500 points from the year prior), proving causation is a whole other kettle of fish...

TxMom - so what you are saying is that a bunch of really rich people, who's only job is to play high stakes gambling on Wall Street - INTENTINOALLY tanked millions of americans 401k's all because they didnt like the BLACK GUY who was elected as the democratic nominee, but had not yet even come close to winning the national election?

I just wanted to be clear about what you are saying happened, in reality...and who's paying for it, and who's profitting from it.

Larry,

How much someone saves and how much someone could save are 2 completely different things. I now live in the white-collar world, and most people I know make >50k/year and don't save anything. When I got to that salary we were putting away 20% of our income - and that % went up with each raise.

Life is about choices. If you want financial security you need to work on increasing revenue (i.e.; get the requisite skills so you can get a decent paying job) and decreasing or minimizing costs. The trap I see people get in is when they get a raise, they actually increase spending more than the raise...

I've never made 6 figures and probably never will, but we are in good financial shape, albeit a but worse with the recent market crash.

Read above, very well put. We need sometimes to know these things, except that sometimes, with all best intentions, life and money and predicting the future doesn't always work. (did the best with what I knew, at the time. {get masters degree, etc.) Who Knew?

Until the riots start.

My in-laws (a retired electrical engineer and school secretary) did. They lived frugally for their entire lives. Whenever a raise was gotten, they saved most of it. They took sensible vacations when they could have afforded more elaborate trips. They didn't buy things that they couldn't pay cash for. They lived in a house that was adequate for their needs and paid it off quickly. It can be done.

@ Go - That reminded me of my sister-in-law's parents. (Well not exactly like mind you.) Now keeping in mind this happened many years ago and her parents were from about 4 generations back from the the young tykes of today. Her father gave one paycheck per month to his wife to cover everything and banked the other paycheck. She never knew all the time they were married that he got paid twice a month. My sister-in-law grew up thinking they were poor. He was a nut but saved a lot of money before he retired. Sadly neither he or his wife lived for more than a few years after he retired to enjoy it.

Go USA,

That's always been our approach. When I made about $10k in the Navy (mid 80's), I paid into the GI education plan and also saved additional money, and I even saved for a bit while putting myself through college and working for less than minimum wage. When I went to college a selected a field I was interested in that also paid well.

After graduating and getting a "real job" (23k), we started saving again. My wife got a job, and each time we got a raise we put about 50% or more of the raise into savings. We bought a fixer-upper house at a steep discount, and looked for the house we really wanted for nearly 10 years before we finally found it in the price range we were comfortable with. We buy used vehicles in good shape, and drive them until they start to break down too often. Basically, both of us like to save and we don't like waste, so we are naturally frugal. We do live in a very nice house now and we do take vacations and host gatherings at least a couple times a month - so we are not scrooges with our money...but we don't blow it on frivolous things.

I think so many Americans today get influenced by product marketing and "keeping up with the jones's" that they don't realize how much money they blow through. I also think most people today do not think long-term.

Ron, I agree we followed a similar plan. After spending ourselves in to a hole (like most people) we cut back and started saving. Cut cable (didn't watch it anyway) got cheap per minute cell phones, brown bagged lunch, ate at home, and shopped smartly and not the latest trend. We paid off debt save 25 percent or more of our income and now are retired in our early fifty's. We shop garage sales thrift stores and out of season closeouts. I live in a new home on a lake with all the toys all of which are 10 to 15 years old but still run good. Life is good when you take responsibility for yourself and control your own destiny instead of depending on the government to take care of you.

Wow. Most of these posters who like to post as if they are "average americans" have absolutely no clue how transparent they are to the ACTUAL average american. We can spot you quite clearly. You appear somewhat clueless.

Don't look now but I think we already are.

Go USA-851295

My in-laws (a retired electrical engineer and school secretary)

I'm guessing both have PENSIONS right ? You do know, that pensions have been going the way of the dodo bird for 30 years now right. Except for public servant work. Getting a pension, on TOP of any monies horded away during that time, makes a HUGE difference. I commend your parents, but they don't represent the average... in my opinion.

We have major steel mills, that now only give 401s, 2 paid holidays, blah blah blah blah blah.

What was the norm 30-40 years ago, has no revelance today as the pay/benefit structure has changed so much.

My mother-in-law has a small pension - mostly self funded - there was a 2% match. The rest was saved through 401k's, IRA's, and regular investments over their working careers.

Yeah, taxation is the problem....seems that every time we cut taxes (like on repatriated earnings) the jobs just seem to spring up everywhere! (Except in the U.S.). If you want the good wages back, you need to tax the @!$%# out of people sending the jobs overseas, and give incentives to companies that hire here.

Tax cuts aren't always the right answer - in fact, sometimes tax hikes are. If some rich @!$%#er wants to hide his money overseas to keep from paying taxes, we should tax the @!$%# out of them - unless they decide to start reinvesting. If some company wants to sit on a pile of cash (there's roughly $1.5 trillion in Fortune 500 coffers at the moment) - we should tax the @!$%# out of it unless they decide to use it to create jobs here

It's a matter of carrot or stick. You create jobs here, you get a carrot. You steal our money and take the jobs overseas? You get the stick.

And if you think the "Free Market" will take care of it....just look at what 10 years of Republican Irresponsibility have left us... Yet you still want to blame the Liberals for it...Even though they're the only ones who are genuinely trying to get @!$%# done to make life easier...

Ebeneezer: I would love for someone to tell me what is
"rich" and what is our "fair share." I make about 350K a
year as a small business owner married to an engineer. Both post-college grads
who paid off loans, busted our butts are now doing well. I paid $85K in taxes
last year, never mind sales tax, property tax, etc. So all totaled I probably paid
$100K out of my pocket in taxes. Is that fair? Nearly 1/3 of what I made? This
President keeps talking about those of us that make over $250 K as being
"rich." I drive a 7 year old car, and my wife just traded in her 20
year car for a new one. Two kids in college. I gave about $35K to charity, in
case any of you want to start whining about taking care of others. We live
well, and are very blessed, but "rich?"

So what is "fair?" 50%? Is it fair that this President killed jobs in
New Orleans with a drilling moratorium or insists on spending billions on
"green" initiatives that don't create jobs but line the pocket of his
cronies at GE? So please someone tell me: What is my fair share? How much more
of my money do you want to give to someone else?

You still make triple what I make - and I make more than double the national average.

And yes - nearly 1/3 of what you make still puts you more than 4x the national average of 50k per year. Incidentally, if you're a small business owner like my own father was - and in the same bracket, incidently - you would know that you don't pay yourself if you want to avoid taxes, you reinvest in the company - either through property investment (rental units, houses, etc), capital investment to expand, or hiring people to expand. If you do, you can deduct all of that as a business expense. You also should know that you can deduct just about everything you own if you're a small business owner - because it is "At Risk"

That said - is it more fair that you pay $100k in taxes but still net $250k, or that a poor working stiff making $50k pays out $10k but only nets $40k. And in all honesty - I guarantee you that MOSTof those working stiffs put in harder days and longer hours than either you OR I do. Combined.

Now, considering that within 3 years you can easily earn what takes 66% of Americans A LIFETIME to earn. Then Yes. You're Rich. If you don't like it. Join us here in the trenches.

Bill C -- Someone that averages $50k in wages over 40 years will earn $2 million during their working life.

Someone that averages $350k over 40 years will earn $14 million during their working life.

How many $50k employees contribute to the success of your business? How would you earn your $350k without those $50k employees?

Is that your vision of 'fair'?

It sure is fair Nerm... he took the risk, sacrificed, and put in the 80 hr weeks to make the business work... he makes if possible for the workers to make $50K instead of minimum wage... you Socialists on the other hand, would confiscate everything he makes and give it to deadbeats... he's entitled to enjoy what he earned... not have you and other thugs like you take it away from him... the majority of American people have seen your marxist end game, and the "free lunch" is coming to an end Nerm... better get ready....

Hey Fed Up - Nobody is asking for a free lunch - but the poor shouldn't be the only ones shouldering the tax burden for the rich - who happen to control Government Spending.

And Nerm - as an Engineer with his own company - he wouldn't need many employees to make that much in personal income - and they're likely paid a lot better than $50k

Fed Up -- Those $50k employees are sure not asking for a 'free lunch'. Otherwise they would not be working to earn $50k.

Risk? Those $50k employees are risking that they will be able to have a decent quality of life when they can no longer work. You think those employees don't make sacrifices to keep the business afloat? You think the employees are not making an investment in the company? Those workers are making a 40 or 50 year commitment without any guarantees.

That business owner is risking nothing. That business owner relies on 'expendable' labor. That business owner can always take steps to balance the sheet and protect their interests. That business owner can layoff the entire workforce today and pocket the cash. What kind of risk is that?

Lets face it... the "evil rich" will NEVER be taxed enough for people like Ebeneezer, liberals, democrats, etc.

They fail to see that the pursuit of the American Dream is what made our country great. There is a point of diminishing returns at which increasing taxes reduces revenue and growth. We can argue what that amount is, but it is true regardless.

My wife and I each work two jobs, 7 days a week, with very limited time off for the last three years. I get very offended when some suggest that I should pay more taxes to support, drug/alcohol addicts, criminals, the lazy, those with poor work ethics, illegals, and to have some of my tax money sent as foreign aid.

Work hard, live well. Work poorly... starve. It has worked since the beginning of time it needs to be reintroduced in the US now.

Rodney -- you're making over $250K a year and you and your wife are each working two jobs seven days a week? What is the point of making that much money if you can never enjoy any of it?

Bill C, men like you built, and continue to build, America. Thank you....

What?

deniseb, you sound pretty smart, what is the solution to our problems?

What color is the sky in your world? Clinton left Bush with a huge budget surplus which he gave away and then proceeded with 2 unnecessary wars which cost us 10's of trillions of dollars, all on borrowed money from China. All Obama is doing is trying to clean up Bush's quagmire.

well first Chris, the quagmire was caused by Liberals forcing banks to loan to people who shouldn't have had houses... backed by the Fannie and Freddie scam... which put taxpayers on the hook for them.. and who then deregged banks so that Fannie and Freddie could sell those trash mortgages as AAA securities to my 401K... typical Liberal wealth redistribution scheme... and second... what did Obozo do about it? Start a third war... and borrow $6 Trillion more from China... to spend us into a debt downgrade... that's some cleanup! But I hear he has a plan...

Well..... creative number generation has always been a tactic of the left. Clinton did NOT leave a huge budget surplus. In fact, he had a $133.29 billion deficit in the year ending September 2001. THAT is what President Bush inherited, and it was all Clinton. Look at the numbers...

FiscalYear Year Ending National Debt Deficit

FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion

FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion

FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion

FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion

FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion

FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion

FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion

FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion

FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion

Hmmm.... where were those HUGE surpluses, and why did our national Debt keep going UP???

Denise B. You are not very educated...............

Silent- your numbers are wrong. According to the GPO

Here's the 2000 budget summary tables: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET-2000-TAB/pdf/BUDGET-2000-TAB-3-1.pdf

Note the projected surplus in 2001. This was a Bill Clinton Budget. (also remember 2000 budget was made in 1999)

Here's the 2001 budget summary tables: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET-2001-TAB/pdf/BUDGET-2001-TAB-3-1.pdf

Note the ACTUAL surplus recorded in 1999. This was a Bill Clinton Budget (also remember the 2001 budget was made in 2000)

Here's the 2002 Budget Summary tables: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET-2002-TAB/pdf/BUDGET-2002-TAB-3-1.pdf

Note the ACTUAL surpluses in 1999 and 2000. Note also the projected surpluses for out years. (this was Bush's first budget)

Here's the 2003 Budget Summary Tables: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET-2003-TAB/pdf/BUDGET-2003-TAB-3-1.pdf

Note the ACTUAL deficit in 2001. This is the first result POST BUSH TAX CUT. Notice that all the outyears now have DEFICITS.

Silent: If you're going to be full of @!$%#, hit the restroom and not the comment boards.

At 250k, no one looks at you as average. Not to mention at $250k, no one feels bad for you but John Boehner.

Are you serious: I agree with you.

JohnnyinSNJ: I don't think he was looking for someone to feel sorry for him. You do realize that $250,000 household income can be achieved by two military colonels, 2 engineers, 2 high school principals, etc. Don't believe everything Obama says. Couples who earn $250,000 together are not millionaires. They are educated, hard working professionals.

Not looking for a bit of sympathy. In fact we can afford pretty much anything we WANT, but because we have goals for retirement, we rarely splurge on much other than our NEEDS. Just pointing out the fact that alot of the dire positions that people are in are because they have CHOSEN not to be responsible for their own financial well being because they buy what they can afford when things are good and dont plan for the times that they may not be so good. We are putting our extra savings into appreciating assets rather than depreciating ones. Live like no one will for five years so you can live like no one can for the rest of your life!

You earn more than 98% of Americans. It sounds like you've made some reasonable spending decisions, but you should still realize that 50% of Americans could never afford even your "responsible" purchases such as a $170K house and two relatively new cars. There are a massive number of working poor in this country who, despite the stereotypes, work two or more jobs their entire lives and have nothing to show for it due to our country's stagnating wages for all but the rich, lack of upward mobility, and the erosion of the middle class at the gain of the wealthy. In other words, the problem is only partially the poor spending choices that some people make.

Hah no kidding. Change the dual income to $60k and rerun the numbers and see what you get. Add a kid or two.

First off, 250k/year for a couple is not 'rich' if you are living in certain parts of the country. I never quite get why cost-of-living of the area one is from is not included in the equation.

I agree that people need to look at themselves in the mirror as they typically ARE the problem. Sorry, I could easily afford an iPhone but refuse to pay the monthly cost so I have a $25/month plan. I could join the gym near where I work that is $125/month or even the $75/month one but I found one that is quite nice for $20/month. I could buy a car every 4 years but instead I have a 2003 which I bought pre-owned since buying new is illogical. I could spend tons of money on clothes but how many pairs of jeans/shorts/t-shirts do I need? If I do buy, I find go to off-price places where I get the name brands I like at a reasonable price. I could eat out every night of the week, but as I get home late, typically I eat some leftovers or a can of tuna with some tomatoes, not because I love it but eating out every night of the week is illogical. I could go food shopping and not look at the prices, buy things regardless of the price or I could look at the 3-4 supermarkets I have to drive by to see where the best price is for certain items. I could go get a 4k apple mac or just have a $375 laptop and use it until it stops working. I could buy watches and fancy things so everyone knows I make a good salary or I could just be myself.

I could spend tons of money on christmas presents, birthdays, etc or I could just buy one reasonable gift to certain people in my life and perhaps go out with the rest for a reasonable dinner to spend with friends/family.

You see, most people want the latest iPhone (regardless of price), the latest shoes/clothes (regardless of price), eat out most nights, etc etc. In the end they say they have NO money of course, they live paycheck-to-paycheck because they think they are entitled to living that way and perhaps they are...but then they are entitled to the retirement they get because they made poor decisions their entire life.

You are in charge of your life, not the Government and if you cannot afford to buy something then you shouldn't buy it. Everyone wants to blame this person or that person. Blame the Government, blame the GOP, blame your employer because they don't pay you enough, blame the TEA party, blame your parents...well guess what BLAME YOURSELF.

You made your bed in life, and when it comes time to sleep in it, don't whine to others because you didn't plan and expected some handout from someone else.

True. How many people here need more than one TV? How many here need all the cable channels or a computer with the fastest internet speed for every family member? How many need smart phones for every family member and huge minute and date plans? How many need a separate bedroom for every child? How many need a boat? How many people need a huge house and lawn? How many people need a sports car, SUV or a luxury car? How many of us really need multiple credit cards maxed out?

We all choose to have these things. We don't need to have so much. So much of our financial problems are of our own making but we close our eyes and are happy to jump in with the crowd blaming everyone else. (IMO this is one of the worst of human traits.) While the government and financial institutions may not be blameless, far fewer of us would be in dire straights if we bought more along the lines of what we needed than what we wanted. People need to show some backbone and accept the fact that they did it to themselves and buckle down and fix their own problems.

Liberals are grasshoppers that played all summer... and now that it's winter, they have nothing to eat... so they have to steal from the industrious ants... but the ants are getting tired of being fleeced by the grasshoppers... we're ready to get back to the "no work, no eat" policy that Capt John Smith had to enforce to get the lazy elitists to work in the Jamestown colony. What WILL liberals do? They'll have to work to pay for their cell phones, faux nails, drugs, cigarettes, new clothes....

I am glad there is more of us than there is of you.

I agree that people should take responsibility for their expenditures and should plan for a future. I don't think somebody who makes 250k a year is in any position to judge those who make far less. Don't forget that not all expenditures are on luxury items (ie. medical, transportation, food, rent). I live in NJ and earn 38K a year and have many medical problems. That alone eats up alot of my pay. I can't imagine where I would be without insurance. There is no way I could even dream of a 170k house or 2 cars. In my eyes "are you serious" you are living the good life and have an opportunity to save for retirement that I and many others like me don't have. You shouldn't be so judgemental of the other 99% of the population. You have probably never been in their situations or have forgotten what it was like.

I think you clicked on the wrong story. This discussion is about the cost of retirement.

You want the "who cares" discussion.

I'm right there with you. Vote Ron Paul to end the criminal insanity in Washington DC!

Well sidewinders are Air-to-Air missiles so I doubt we are firing many of them and I doubt they cost $25 million a piece but I get your point. Irresponsible war spending is not helping anyone.

ding ding ding

Apparently the author thinks most people will live past 86. I'm 40 now, if we still have SS when I retire I'll be taking it from day 1.

Good luck with that. Do you really think SS & Medicare will be around in a few years? Take SS at 62 and be lucky if you get any payments.

I don't know where you are at where the ss monthly payment is $2k a month. Most of the people around here get under $1k.