Junicon: I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. The obestiy problem in the teenage demographic has been well documented. It's not an age-specific problem anymore.

Also, the old excuse, "It's my genetics" has been debunked as well. It's due to poor lifestyle habits far more than it is genetics. Thirty two percent of a population cannot have "poor genes".

I'm 35 and I am thin. My mom is 70 and she is also thin. Not understanding Junicon's argument here.

No one said it's easy to lose weight, but your life could depend on it. That should be motivation enough.

Also, there is nothing wrong with being proud of yourself for being in shape. Would you rather said 25 year old had poor self esteem?

Then why is it when I go to other countries I don't see as many obese people of any age as I do in the U.S.? There are studies now on the increasing number of obese teens. The number of people that are obese due to some medical condition is probably in the minority. Main reason Americans are fatter is because they eat a lot and do not exercise and sit most of their waking life, which, in itself, causes other problems associated with obesity. Oh. god... lunchtime. Gotta go!!!

Call the Wah-mbulance.

Always the victim.

Everyone, including myself at 64, has more trouble keeping weight off. However, I have been active and exercised all adult life. Now, later in life, comes the payoff.

I am thinner and much more active and physically capable than my same aged friends are.
I still exercise and pay attention to what I eat. But staying slim is do-able.

We did not go from a country with 5% obesity to 30% obesity and an additional 30% overweight because everyone's bodily systems are broken, flawed or failed. We did it by continually shoving too much food into our mouths.

Also note, obesity related illnesses and medical costs to society far exceed those of drugs, alcohol and cigarettes combined. My insurance rates are higher because of all the fatties out there porking out.

I am for weighing in with your health care provider. Pay by the pound.

I agree with John 755418 - I live in a small Northern California town that has become more than 75% hispanic over the past fifteen years. It is just heart-breaking to see these kids - obesity is rampant - right down to the pre-schoolers. It has to be lifestyle rather than genetics and I never notice the overweight kids when I visit Mexico. I was at Mcdonalds the other day (having a mocha with no whipped cream, thank you) and watching the moms and kids just cover the tables with the bad stuff. I just wanted to ask - what do you think you are doing to those poor babies?

ok im admitting on here infront of all of yall I am an obesed teen but I will also say this that my family has struggled to keep food on the table sometimes & while I do try to eat somewhat better i have a hard time eating healthy. Its not my parents fault, its not completely my fault...take into consideration grapes my favorite fruit is freaking 3 dollars and something. "other fried food" can be sold for cheaper...do the math if you dont have money to be healthy you cant always eat healthy. now Im not saying dont have pride in yourself but this article needs to find out how to help the over weight ppl as opposed to pointing fingers at them & saying its our fault...i walk to classes everyday & im still over weight, it's hard to lose weight! especially since ive been overweight since I was little. So im not going to let anybody tell me oh its my fault about anything...now skinny ppl are lucky and beautiful by all means but bc im over weight doesnt mean im not beautiful bc i am!!! i love myself i just dont like my weight but thats for me to handle not anybody else, right?

Everyone has something that they are not proud of whether it be weight, height, moles, pimples, intelligence, etc. etc.

However being overweight does not happen without choices. Whether it is a young person living with their family or an adult making their own decisions, it IS someone's fault the majority of the time. Usually either ourselves or our parents. Shame on any parent that doesn't have the sense to feed their kids healthy food. I have been going further and further behind on my families monthly bills for the past 2 years now. My wife and I still make sure that there is a small portion of meat, larger portion of some kind of vegetable, and usually potatoes or some carbs. Then, we don't let our kids sit inside and play video games all day long. When they are not in sports or activities we kick them out of the house to go do something outside. I don't care if they dig for worms, but they are not sitting on their butt doing nothing.

Could we all eat fried egg rolls and potato cakes because its cheaper? Of course we could, but it is more important for us to be alive and together as a family at 70 yrs old. That is our CHOICE.

I am so tired of listening to people say it isn't their choice. The only ones that can ALMOST play that card are kids living with their lazy parents who don't act like parents enought to take control. But, you teenagers can still talk about it over and over and over with parents until they get the picture.

McDonald's, Wendy's and Chick Filet have nice salads these days.

Being fat is not a fat person's fault. It's a mysterious disease that people are contracting at steadily increasing rates from each year to the next... tracking by pure coincidence alongside greater rates of high calorie food consumption and less manual labor.

Junicon, you need to walk and run in your own shoes for more than just a mile. eat no junk food, eat less and exercise. this recipe works for everyone, young or old with whatever genetics. obese is not a normal state of health, it is abnormal, and is brought on by the person him/herself.

Ruthierox. I am sorry that you have had so much trouble. I do agree in part to your comment about healthy food being more expensive than the processed foods you can buy. I do think that even those who cannot afford fresh fruits, veggies, etc can still make better choices. Here are some examples:

-Stop buying soda or sugary drinks and buy a brita filter...drink more water
-Instead of buying 80/20 ground beef buy extra lean or ground turkey
-Start buying snacks that are fat free/sugar free. Although, a lot of this processed fat free stuff isn't necessarily healthy, it is a better choice than the original fatty counter parts.
-Buy skim milk instead of 2% or whole milk
-You could save money by not buying butter or salt. Adding extra butter to foods adds a TON of extra fat and calories and adding salt to foods that are already high in sodium could be avoided.
-canned fruit and veggies are cheap. Just buy the ones in natural juices instead of heavy syrup.

I'm sure there are many other alternatives, these are just a few. If someone really wants to try to eat better and lose weight, money shouldn't be an excuse.

It is such a ridiculous crock that it's more expensive to eat healthy. I cook all the time and don't spend more then $100/wk on groceries for 4 of us and there's plenty of produce in our house. If I had to I could spend less, my sister gets food stamps and she gets $600 worth every month so $400/mo is not a lot of money. Beans and rice are quite inexpensive; fried and packaged crap are quite expensive and you have to eat more of it to fill up because it has no nutritional value. Also, even if I use the dollar menu at McDonald's I can't get out of there for less then $10-$12 for a meal for the 4 of us, I can cook nice meals for half of that. It requires some planning and cooking (I have a full time job as well so don't whine about having no time) but this is an unfortunate myth that people buy into that doesn't benefit anyone.

Although, Americans are generally more obese than in many other countries and this is, indeed, a function of dietary choices that are made every day. Obesity is also demographically a disease of the poor. High carbohydrate high fat foods are cheap and make up a large percentage of the diet of lower income families. So, this fact combined with the ready supply of high calorie foods available for our opportunistic feeding habits results in the epidemic that we see in this country. As more and more Americans slip below the poverty line there will be more challenges in providing a decent diet even if the will is there.

ruthierox1304, you are right it is you who should be handling your weight problem. eating healthy is only a part of the solution. you can certainly eat less. have you tried that? cut your daily intake of whatever in half and you wont die, but you will lose weight. daily walking is so minimum. you need work up some heavy sweat at least 3 times a week, or better, every day.

Some thin 25 year olds, like myself, do know what you're talking about. I have low thyroid, which is often cited by obese people. I certainly gained weight from mismanaged thyroid disease, no question. But I'm at my ideal weight now because I eat right and exercise. Was it difficult to lose weight? Absolutely. Did it take a lot of time and effort to shop, plan meals, cook healthy food, and measure out portions? Yeah. I'm not saying that it's easy for everyone, but it's always impossible if you never try.

Not to pick on ruthierox...when making choices about having good food to eat, you can always cut back on the cell phone and cable. Eat the fruits and veggies that are in season so you don't pay outrageous prices for produce shipped in from who-knows where. Often, frozen fruits and veggies are cheaper than fresh. Shop smart, take control. It isn't out of your hands. Get up, get moving. Measure the portions. I am so tired of hearing the excuse that eating well is expensive.

I agree with Liz. Eating healthy doesn't have to be expensive as long as you know where to look and what to eat. Frozen chicken breast, brown rice, packaged salad, and a vegetable blend is fairly inexpensive. Get it at a club (Costco, Sams) and it'll be even cheaper. I get by spending about 30/week doing that. And if you can share the cost of a club membership (you usually get 2 cards per member) with a friend, it'll save you a few extra bucks as well.

your credibility is lost when you said: "Many overweight people also have medical conditions that contribute to weight gain". the fact is, SOME overweight people also have medical conditions that contribute to weight gain. and i will wager that FEW overweight people also have medical conditions that contribute to weight gain.

activity, diet choice and self control are the biggest variables. if this wasn't true, we would have been just as obese in the 1800's or the 1400's or whenever.

John-755418

John-755418

Junicon: I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. The obestiy problem in the teenage demographic has been well documented. It's not an age-specific problem anymore.

Also, the old excuse, "It's my genetics" has been debunked as well. It's due to poor lifestyle habits far more than it is genetics. Thirty two percent of a population cannot have "poor genes".

Read my post again. Notice that I NEVER SAID that obesity is *SOLELY* a problem for middle aged people and older. What I said was that it becomes increasingly difficult to stay thin as one gets older. I said that many thin 25 year olds will be overweight middle aged people in 20 or 30 years. How you got from that to the idea that I denied the existence of teenage obesity is a genuine mystery.

cherfer

I'm 35 and I am thin. My mom is 70 and she is also thin. Not understanding Junicon's argument here.

I never said that EVERYONE becomes obese as they get older. It's a very well established fact that most people tend to gain weight as they age -- often a lot of weight. When someone makes a comment about a general tendency like that, you can't refute their point by citing an anecdote.

Two very powerful words that can be used effectively to help curb obesity:

Farmer's Market

I understand that not everyone can take advantage of these two words, but for those who can...do so!

reeeder-3959199

Junicon, you need to walk and run in your own shoes for more than just a mile. eat no junk food, eat less and exercise.

You need to stop jumping to conclusions. I'm 44 years old, 6 feet 3 inches tall and I weigh 195 pounds. I didn't make that post to excuse my own obesity because I'm not overweight. I made that post because I have relevant professional training and I know what I am talking about.

Some of you need to understand that obesity has many causes. Genetic factors, age, other environmental factors, and personal habits interact in complex ways. That's why I started my post with the following sentence:

THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT OBESITY IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM BUT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS NOT A SIMPLEMINDED QUESTION OF WILLPOWER.

I'm going to repeat that sentence again because so many of you missed it the first time:

"There is no question that obesity is a serious problem but people need to realize that it's not a simpleminded question of willpower."

Now you should realize why it's dumb to respond to my post by citing anecdotes, mentioning that the obesity rate is increasing, mentioning other countries in which obesity is not a problem, etc. Obesity is caused by many factors -- it's not a simple issue of willpower. When you have something that is caused by many factors, OF COURSE you will see variation in the rates. OF COURSE you will see higher prevalance rates in some countries than others.

NOWHERE did I deny that obese people need to change their habits. My point was that -- because obesity is caused by many factors, including genetics and age -- a thin 25 year old shouldn't assume that he has better willpower than an overweight person that is older.

I think some of you are just a little too proud of yourselves for not being overweight. Yet, I'd bet a lot of money that some of the people above that responded critically to my post have done illegal drugs. I'd bet a lot of money that some of you smoke. I'd bet a lot of money that some of you don't exercize or eat right yourselves, but you're thin because of lucky genetics. I'd bet some of you drive too fast and do other things that are dangerous.

But it's just SO MUCH fun to point fingers at other people for their vices and feel oh-so-superior to them, isn't it?

I encourage obesity, because they need to die off faster before they have children, and thus it strengthens the gene pool for us thin people.

3000 years ago the Romans felt obligated to exercise every day because of the ideals of the human form were respected. Now we're too scared to hurt peoples feelings.

junicon, people are damn tired of watching people make CHOICES about their lives and health and then cry victim and expect tax payers to pay up. There is no doubt that metabolism slows as we age, there is no doubt that we sit too much, there is no doubt that we eat too many toxic things. I do not begrudge 10-20-30 pounds, but at what point did the fat person simply give up??

ALL this article is saying is that AT LEAST 10 percent of the costs of disease care go to obesity. They get more hypertension, diabetes, skin diseases, gallbladder disease, polyps and reflux. There is less REM sleep so they have more accidents ( up to the same issues as drunk drivers) and they are less productive.

I have Graves Disease which had greatly affected my thyroid gland such that I had to have it irradiated, Prior to such condition I was a lean 6'3" 215 lbs, then I went hyperthyroid (with the Graves) and dropped to 156 lbs (at the peak) until I got treatment, then shot up to my current weight of 290 lbs. Throughout I continued a brisk exercise regiment and low-fat, low-carb, lean protein-rich diet, the same such diet that had kept me in shape through most of my life. I do a lot of research and experimentation on weight loss with thyroid concerns, and still I find it very difficult to lose the weight I need to get back to a reasonable tally that is both healthy and attractive.

Now, however, I do not lose weight when I work out. I have cut portion sizes drastically and spread out meals throughout the day, and still I am way over my optimal weight. I'm no couch potato, I do put in the good work required for weight loss, yet such is very hard to come by if at all.

My point is, like every other complex matter in life, that glib generalizations about what others should be doing with their lives is fine for BSing on the internets. But the truth is there is a broad range of factors that affect people's health and weight concerns, and simply dissing folks for a lack of self control and nutritional discernment is decidedly bad rationalization at best. Try a little empathy before kicking your fellow man in the gut for not being like you.

And while I am sorry for your condition, I am equally certain that this is a rare cause of obesity- so please get over it. Your personal issues certainly do NOT account for an over 1000 fold rise in this problem. Keep on with the liberal whine and soon we will be a nation of invalids looking for another chinese credit card.

Yet, doctorsteph, you would cast the SAME stone in the direction of the poster at 1.25 as you would anyone else. The same disdain, the same criticism, the same open loathing. THAT is the problem. YOU don't know what situation a person is in walking down the street; why should that person be forced to simply "get over it" and deal with overt disdain, criticism, discrimination, and outright hostility when they DO suffer a condition that is a true cause for someone to gain weight??!!

WHAT SOLUTION IS ***ANYTHING*** TO CAUSE OVERWEIGHT AND OBESE PEOPLE, NO MATTER THE CAUSE, TO BE ABUSED, BELITTLED, AND OUTCAST FROM SOCIETY???!!!

Short answer: It is not a solution. It will only make the problem (and yes, there definitely is a problem with overweight in this country- there isn't anyone who could show that there isn't!) more intense, cause more pain and suffering through fully-blown eating disorders, and further deepen the depression behind much of the obesity issue.

Why else would diagnoses of all forms of eating disorders have gotten so high in the past decade? Could it have a connection to the vitriole and open hatred shown by today's completely hostile and intolerant nature? Hmmm... could be.

I still say that the focus of scientific studies should shy away from "proving" there is a problem. THERE CLEARLY IS A PROBLEM. OK scientists? Ya' did it! We see it... NOW, the focus needs to be--------wait for it------wait for it-------WHAT techniques will empower the overweight and obese to get back their health? Nanny nagging and negativity is a proven sheer and utter failure. Back to the drawing board.

Here's my suggestion, and I will stick with it: Why do some thin people remain thin. Truly thin. No matter what they eat. Why can my husband go for days barely eating anything and suffer little discomfort at all? Why do my kids have the same tendency? Where does my daughter's energy come from (she has energy I truly never had in my life- even when I was younger than her). She is thinner than I ever was in my life too, as is my son. I was raised on a healthy diet of three meals a day, no pre-packaged anything, and with reduced sodium due to my father's health. My husband was raised by a former Mennonite; donuts, cakes, pies, lard, and salt in EVERYTHING...and vast quantities at all meals and snacks. What is it in my husband that is so dominant? My biological ancestors were of normal weight/build as well. Why do I cut back to almost nothing, eat no processed anything, very little else, for months and don't lose weight, only when combined with 6-8 HOURS of strenuous physical workout does it make a dent in the weight?

Short answer, "doctor" steph, is that there are very complex biologies with many people who are overweight and obese.

I do have diagnosed hypothyroid, PCOS, and nearly certain metabolic syndrome.... also....

I have a rather disturbing loss of equilibrium that has developed over the past 2 years; diagnosed as labrynthitis. I can get hit with a "tidal wave" of dizziness that will literally knock me off my feet at any moment. Would you feel comfortable outside trying to exercise in my shoes?? Knowing you could be face-down on the sidewalk with your teeth missing at any moment? That's me. I'm still recovering from the severely sprained ankle this spring that resulted in an ankle reconstruction a few weeks ago.

Will get back to exercise as I recover, for what little good it does me, but again- how do you know if you pass me on the street? Truth: you don't know.

Goes back to that rule of kindergarten: if you don't have something nice to say(positive, helpful, supportive-not pandering or "enabling") then keep it to yourself.

I did not say it was ok to be negative to the INDIVIDUAL. What I am saying is we need to move away from the poor me when making policy. Less than 10% of the obese have any rationale except laziness and overconsumption.

There are metabolic issues rarely, much more often there are excuses and reactions. I suspect that you have either been treated poorly by your health care team or you protest to much.

It is interesting that you have children and PCOS- as that is a leading cause of infertility. There are metabolic syndromes which are consequent to obesity, and there is obesity that is consequent to metabolic syndromes. All I am saying is each individual needs to do what is best for them, and policy needs to be written for the majority NOT the minority of scientific causes.

I have few doctors that I trust, for sure. Most haven't done much; most will make very weak references to commercial diet programs. Useless and futile.

I do have PCOS and I was extremely lucky to have children. I began having "female" issues at 19; then about 6 months later was when the weight came on very suddenly. When doctors tell me that I have the condition BECAUSE of the weight, they lose me. It simply is NOT true. PCOS hit first. THEN, and only then, did the weight become a problem.

I lost quite a bit of weight at one point, then I got pregnant. I could barely eat anything, so I didn't gain much for quite a while. However, I had pre-eclampsia with my first pregnancy, developing at about 26 weeks or so, nearly lost both my son at 32 weeks as well as me, and gained about 90 lbs. He was 2 lb 14 oz. when born: Nightmare. Two weeks after his birth I saw an internist to "treat" my blood pressure. He said I was fat, and "people fat like you" can never lose weight and to not bother trying, because I would just fail. Told me to make final arrangements because I would be dead within a year. Went to a different doctor who actually helped; got down to a size 4 the next year.

That horrible doctor visit was 14 years ago, and I haven't trusted "doctors" since!

so what do you suggest? Doing a CT angio or some other stroke workup on any depressed person? Do you know how many depressed people there are in the US? Do you realize how many false positives this would generate and how much money this would cost?

But yeah, you're right--blame the doctor

Studying naturally thin people is, as far as I am concerned, the ***ONLY*** way that science will be able to figure out the ultimate solution to obesity. Kudos to you, MomGrandma, for your insight.

Eric- your response was a bit off-base. I think that MomGrandma was suggesting that if presented with a diagnoses of obesity combined with depression, that certain other testing is necessary. I see NO one advocating blaming the doctor, for anything; except for failing to consider all possibilities facing a patient that trusts them for care, rather than dismissing an overweight/obese patient- a huge problem that is getting worse by the minute.

Go to a doctor and you may/probably will be misdiagnosed due to this bias

That doesn't sound like blaming the doctor to you??

Again, my question still stands--if you are obese, and you are depressed, then you want to do further testing??? Like what? Do you know how expensive that would be

NO medical group currently advocates screening for stroke in that population

Even if you did, what would you do with that information? How do you prevent a stroke? Eating right, maybe starting a cholesterol lowering medication and aspririn. Most obese people SHOULD be on that anyway--so what did your expensive test change?

You put a lot of generalties and touchy-feely statements in your post, but it is completely impractical on the whole

Why single out overeating?

I've known smokers that said exactly the same things you just said. What about people that drink too much alcohol? What about people that don't eat enough vegetables? What about people that eat right and exercize but drive too fast or do other things that risk serious injury?

See, that's the problem. Just about everyone does SOMETHING that isn't healthy. Then they point fingers at people that have unhealthy habits that differ from their own unhealthy habits.

See, that's the problem. Just about everyone does SOMETHING that isn't healthy.

Yes, but according to the article, 10% of all healthcare spending in some states goes towards treating conditions caused by obesity. In other words, eliminating one behavior might help save 10% on healthcare spending. That's what I call "low-hanging fruit".

I thought they were doing that already? I know several people whose insurance companies told them that they have a higher premium due to obesity and higher risk of health problems. I think they called it a pre-existing condition.

All the tubbies should embrace "Obamacare". No more pre-existing conditions.

The answer is simple. Raise the healthcare premiums of the obese. Make it like life insurance. You get put into a bracket and if you are not in the top tiers of said bracket, you pay the difference in costs.

This is already the case, in many states. It doesn't work... it's still not enough to offset the costs of their diseases.

Part of eliminating the behavior is to make healthy food as cheap and easy to prepare as junk food (which is about 1/3 the cost of "healthy foods") and as accessible.

Many poor people eat a regular diet of carbs, sugars, salts and fats because it is cheaper and more convenient, plus fresh produce goes bad quickly so you can't "stock up on it". Alot of people may not have regular access or time (many people working 2 jobs) to shop and /or prepare it.

Junicon, 'Pennywhacker(interesting name)' doesn't realize that a person's size is visible, what of the habits of those, as you state, that are not? 'Pre-judge'ice.

How about just tax unhealthy things like junk food, alcohol, all soft beverages (water is available from the faucet, after all), ready-to-eat food, high-octane gasoline (only performance vehicles need them, after all), and anything else anyone can think of that enables "high-risk behavior." Penny, if you're going to single out one, might as well hit everything. Let's also do genetic tests, and heck, if you're susceptible to any sort of hereditary disease, let's increase your premiums. Family history of heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, arthritis, etc? Increased premium. Lots of traffic tickets? Increased premium. Ardent sports fan? Increased premium.

Or, you know, we could just use common sense, and maybe, just maybe, encourage good behavior without punitive measures against the contrary.

Then all the fat ass republicans will be up in arms.

I'm with you Pennywhacker 110%. Granted some have an underlying medical condition and maybe, just maybe this will help.

Sure double the health care premium... lets see 2 times free is ahh free.

Low income and poor health are self fulfilling. Because many poor people also have very low education levels (which is mostly what makes them poor in the first place) they do not understand the complexity of food choices. To them I can take my food stamps and buy a huge pile of stuff that tastes good or a can buy a smaller pile of stuff that is healthy.

It is very hard to get people that understand in detail to make the correct choice, poor people will rely on their feelings which says MORE is better.

John-755418

Yes, but according to the article, 10% of all healthcare spending in some states goes towards treating conditions caused by obesity. In other words, eliminating one behavior might help save 10% on healthcare spending. That's what I call "low-hanging fruit".

That statistic is meaningless as a rebuttal to my post unless you have the statistics in hand for smoking, driving too fast, overuse of alcohol, and all of the other unhealthy/dangerous things people do. How much would be saved if we eliminated alcoholism? How much would be saved if everyone obeyed the speed limit? How much would be saved if everyone quit smoking?

Give it up. You're trying to selectively point fingers at obesity, while ignoring all of the other dangerous/unhealthy things people do.

Stop allowing the food industry to manipulate government! Tax dollars are actually promoting an unhealthy lifestyle through subsidies of meat, dairy and packaged foods.

No wonder we're all fat. If we ever learned the true price of packaged junk food we would never buy it. Imaging a $10 hamburger, well thats how much it really costs without heavy subsidies.

Give it up. You're trying to selectively point fingers at obesity, while ignoring all of the other dangerous/unhealthy things people do.

Junicon, The smoking rate in the US is already declining (unlike the obesity rate which is rising).

http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20081113/smoking-rate-is-declining-in-us

Your arguments seem to be excuses to NOT exercise. There really is no excuse for over 30% of the population to be obese.

Matt - No. Don't tax me because there are gosh-darned fools who choose to have a poor diet and over-eat. I'm responsible for me, not food hounds who can't control their appetite, who eat bad food and overeat themselves into a coma. It's called gluttony. Be a glutton and pay your own hospital bills.

I totally agree. It's time for adults to grow up and move away from the latest episode of 'American Idol' or 'Design Star' on HGTV. Turn the TV off for awhile and go walk instead. Living your own life is actually more fun and rewarding than watching someone else live theirs on the latest reality shows.

It is already being covered. The healthy among us pay higher insurance premiums because of the fatties. And also those who have no insurance but show up at the hospital with a heart attack due to obesity.

The best thing we can do to improve our health and lower health care costs is to lose weight, not radically change our health care system

You're wrong. Many of the people who are overweight with diabetes, hypertension, etc. aren't taking care of themselves because they don't have access to health care or health education, because they can't afford it. They can't afford the doctors visits, the medications, etc so their diseases spiral out of control until it becomes an emergency. They go to the emergency room, don't have health insurance... that leaves the rest of us footing the bill.

If these people had more access to health care, they could treat their diseases, or get educated about proper nutrition and exercise, and their conditions wouldn't spiral out of control.

Most of these folks are not using common sense PrecededbyNone. They know they should eat and drink healthier foods and exercise but do not do it. No need for us to give them more free services or education, they just need to eat better and exercise. Oatmeal, water, bread, chicken breast, rice, bananas are all very inexpensive foods, there are others as well these folks should be eatting instead of being lazy and microwaving that frozen dinner or eating fast food, it really is that simple.

preceded,

What exactly am I wrong about? The cost of covering obese people is clearly higher (did you read the article you are commenting on??)

Therefore, health care costs are higher in the US than other countries due, in some part, from our obesity epidemic

Expanding care would only drive our costs to astronomical levels because of all the obesity in this country

I don't even understand what you are trying to say? People got obese from a lack of health care? How does that make sense? Do you think increasing the coverage in this country would make people eat less and exercise more?

I highlighted what you were wrong about, I'm not sure how I can make it clearer for you. If you don't understand what I've said, dictionary.com is a good place to look up the bigger words.

Obesity, by itself, is not what's dragging down the healthcare system. It's the diseases that obesity causes, like diabetes, hypertension, sleep apnea, and a plethora of other disorders, that people can't keep in check due to lack of access to health care. If people were able to control these diseases under medication and supervision, than they wouldn't get to the point of life-threatening emergencies, which is the big portion of the cost.

If you've read anything in the past five years, you'll know that the majority of people who are obese are also living in poverty. The only foods they can afford are on the unhealthier side of the spectrum... breads, pastas, cheese, fast food, etc. Fruits and vegetables are very expensive if you want to make them the main part of your diet. (http://yourlife.usatoday.com/fitness-food/diet-nutrition/story/2011/08/The-high-cost-of-healthy-eating-out-of-reach-for-many/49805612/1) Exercise in many of these areas also often requires a gym membership, since the streets are either unsafe to walk or run on due to lack of infrastructure or crime. An interesting article, for your amusement only, I'm sure: (http://www.theatlantic.com/life/archive/2011/08/walking-is-healthy-so-why-isnt-it-safer/243858/)

Many of these people also lack adequate education about what's healthy and what's not. In case you haven't noticed, there is a lot of conflicting information out there. A lot of what's out there is also media hype (crash diets, Atkins-esque diets and the like) People lack education. My parents, for example, still think a plateful of white pasta and cheese sauce for dinner with a side of bread, is a perfectly healthy meal every night. They know nothing of portion size. If you aren't taught proper nutrition in school, (and most people were not, since we were taught the "food pyramid" guidelines, making bread and grains the main staple) then you learn it from your doctor. So yes, people DO get obese from a lack of health care.

Obesity is an effect of a society where we have a lack of education, a lack of access to resources for people to improve their lifestyle, and a lack of access to affordable healthcare. I do very strongly believe that increasing coverage in this country, making it accessible to the poor, who are mostly affected by obesity, as well as the rich, will improve obesity rates.

Oatmeal, water, bread, chicken breast, rice, bananas are all very inexpensive foods,

These foods provide the most bare minimum of nutrition, if that. You included one fruit, no vegetables... and I'm sorry, but bread is really not that healthy. In moderation yes, but if it's all you're eating, you'd be suffering. And I don't know where you're living, but chicken breasts are certainly not inexpensive. It's no secret that eating healthy actually IS quite expensive.

Not to say that there aren't people out there who are just lazy and don't care, but that is not the majority. That's a stereotype... just like "all poor people are lazy, why don't they just get jobs?".

Yes, people are fat because they're poor. Just look at all the obese homeless people.

/sarcasm

It's a bit more complicated that, and therefore beyond your comprehension, but nice try. /sarcasm.

You're so cute when you're pretentious!

preceeded,

The incredibly pretentious attitude you display is uncalled for. I assure you I am more educated than you, so save your sarcastic comments.

You call me wrong, yet are unable to provide even one fact I was wrong about, instead employing a distracting technique to cover your own ignorance. Im not fooled

Let me simplify it for you, and see if that helps your comprehension

1)Obesity is a huge epidemic in the US. This is true for poor AND rich

2)Obesity has been DIRECTLY implicated in the genesis and exacerbation of chronic diseases such as diabetes and hypertension, that are very expensive to treat (again, did you read the above article???)

3) A good and cheap way to reduce costs in this country would be to reduce our weight.

All the irrelevant things you posted about poverty leading to obesity through poor nutritional and exercise options are true, and, well...irrelevant

I would LOVE to hear how increasing medical coverage will address those concerns you raised.

Your anecdotal claims aside, people get obese because they eat more. If you are trying to tell me that your parents need to be educated that the more they eat, the more weight they gain, I would say your parents are two very stupid individuals, and not representative of the american population

In addition, you show complete ignorance as to the cost of controlling chronic diseases. Acute care is expensive, true, but the cost of every 3 month doctor visits, yearly lipid panel checks, an average of 3-4 antihypertensives per patient, diabetes screening, yearly eye exams and labs for diabetics, etc, etc...is ENORMOUSLY expensive

And these are largely CAUSED by obesity.

How does expanding coverage make this cheaper???

Just because I'm right doesn't make me pretentious.

I assure you I am more educated than you, so save your sarcastic comments.

Oh, can you assure me? Now who is being pretentious?

You call me wrong, yet are unable to provide even one fact I was wrong about

Actually, I put it in "quote" form at the beginning of my first post. Go back and double check.

1)Obesity is a huge epidemic in the US. This is true for poor AND rich

True, but it's skewed to be more of an epidemic among the poor.

2)Obesity has been DIRECTLY implicated in the genesis and exacerbation of chronic diseases such as diabetes and hypertension, that are very expensive to treat (again, did you read the above article???)

Um, yes... that's exactly what I said... let me quote it for you again here for YOUR comprehension: Obesity, by itself, is not what's dragging down the healthcare system. It's the diseases that obesity causes, like diabetes, hypertension, sleep apnea, and a plethora of other disorders,

3) A good and cheap way to reduce costs in this country would be to reduce our weight.

I agree with that. But how are people to go about doing that if they can't afford to eat right, or don't know how to eat right in the first place?

All the irrelevant things you posted about poverty leading to obesity through poor nutritional and exercise options are true, and, well...irrelevant

Actually, they're backed up by plenty of studies and statistics. You can see that from a couple of the links I posted, or if you're capable of doing some research on your own, maybe you can google a thing or two.

I would LOVE to hear how increasing medical coverage will address those concerns you raised.

*Sigh* I thought I explained that well enough in my last post... increasing medical coverage will educate people more about healthy lifestyles, for the LONG RUN. It will also treat the medical conditions they have NOW, in the short run, to keep them from becoming life-threatening, emergency room cases that cost the states money.

people get obese because they eat more. If you are trying to tell me that your parents need to be educated that the more they eat, the more weight they gain, I would say your parents are two very stupid individuals, and not representative of the american population

People ALSO get obese because of lack of exercise, genetic predispositions, and other health disorders. And I'm not sure why you find the need to insult my parents here, but it's not doing much for your image of being the non-pretentious one in this argument. They simply belong to a different generation that was taught different things about nutrition. They don't overeat, they just eat the wrong crap.

you show complete ignorance as to the cost of controlling chronic diseases. Acute care is expensive, true, but the cost of every 3 month doctor visits, yearly lipid panel checks, an average of 3-4 antihypertensives per patient, diabetes screening, yearly eye exams and labs for diabetics, etc, etc...is ENORMOUSLY expensive

I actually worked for a health insurance company for two years as an underwriter. I'm very well aware of the costs of healthcare, and I'm also well aware of the fact that charging extra for obese people (known as 'rating') doesn't offset the costs of their healthcare either--in fact, our actuaries actually noticed the trend was the opposite.

And you are right, health care is enormously expensive.

But as I've told you about three times now, expanding health care to more individuals will help keep costs down because they will be maintaining their diseases. If they don't have care, and they leave them uncontrolled, it leads to a heart attack or a diabetic coma, and they end up in the emergency room and THAT, my angry little friend, costs a hell of a lot more and drains the health care system and ties up a lot more resources than maintaining.

I also want to address the cost of all the things you listed above:

Quarterly doctor visits: Most of those would be a co-pay. $25, on average. Preventative check ups are actually free now.

Lipid panel screenings: Not cheap, but not too bad. I got one recently, with my insurance it was around $50.

Hypertensive medication: The majority of these, generic brand, are less than $5 for a month's supply, according to my Rx Profile in my insurance packet.

Diabetes screening: That's a blood test... again, about $50 under my insurance. Right now my insurance is what I would call slightly above average (I am very, very grateful for that!)

Eye exams: Usually covered by vision insurance. Maybe a co-pay of $25.

Labs for diabetics: If your diabetes is uncontrolled, that's a lot of labs. If it's maintained, it's a yearly lab, which is about $50.

These costs add up very, very rapidly if your diseases are not maintained. But the average cost of a single emergency room visit? I am sure you can ball park it. It's a lot more than all the costs I lined out above.

Many communities hold health fairs where low cost screenings for blood sugar and lipids are available as well as free blood pressure checks. Education about prevention and proactivity are essential. Our health is in our hands if we will just take action. Many health problems can be controlled and sometimes even reversed with action that often is low cost or no cost.

wow, i see im going to have to make this very simple for you

Im not going to debate you on the costs of care. You quote copays, which are not the full cost. That's laughable. You can't really believe that, can you:?

you also tell me to "google" for my research. Only uneducated, ignorant people trust google for their medical information. Try pubmed, if you can understand it

Drawing an A1C costs more than 25 bucks alone (but you probably have no idea what that means...)

Let me make it very simple for you

Obesity causes many diseases that cost money, as the article states

One solution would be increasing coverage, paying more to cover both the chronic costs (which you grossly, grossly underestimate) OR:

become less obese (free)

If you can't understand that math, then youre helpless

Another question I have for Eric:

If you don't want to believe that making healthcare more accessible will ultimately lower the costs for everyone, tell me how restricting access for obese people would work. I can tell you: terribly. Because that's what we're doing right now. Obese people are often denied coverage or their premiums are rated 20%. Obviously that tactic is not working out too well, is it? Because, well, here we are.

Wouldn't it be nice if all the fat people lost weight? Then all our problems would magically be solved? Unfortunately, you can't tell people to stop overeating any more than you can tell them to stop having sex to prevent overpopulation. It just isn't going to happen. Coming up with this health insurance restriction as a punishment was a joke because it's only making things worse.

You quote copays, which are not the full cost. That's laughable. You can't really believe that, can you:?

You know, for an unpretentious person, you certainly are being quite a jerk. And you're obviously not reading. I never said it was the full cost. I was referring, of course, to the cost to the insured individual, to emphasize how easy it would be to maintain disease if more people were insured. Even so, the full cost of preventative care, to the individual as well as the institution, is far less than the cost of emergency care.

Drawing an A1C costs more than 25 bucks alone (but you probably have no idea what that means...)

Gosh, if I wasn't so pretentious I might be insulted by this. As I said, I was an underwriter for a health insurance company, and nowhere did I mention in my pricing that this was the FULL COST. Since you missed my entire point, I was talking about costs to the individual with insurance, because individuals with insurance can maintain and control their diseases. Non-insured individuals are costing the states the most (did YOU read the article?) I am OH so impressed that you know what that means though. Good job, Eric!

you also tell me to "google" for my research. Only uneducated, ignorant people trust google for their medical information. Try pubmed, if you can understand it

Thanks for the info, I will try to wrap my tiny little ol' uneducated, ignorant brain around it.

Obesity causes many diseases that cost money, as the article states

Still not sure why you keep thinking that I don't believe that, I've reiterated it for you twice already.

One solution would be increasing coverage, paying more to cover both the chronic costs (which you grossly, grossly underestimate) OR:

become less obese (free)

As I've already stated, "become less obese" is NOT a viable solution. "Increasing coverage"... whatever you believe about the prices I quoted (which for the third time, are what the INSURED pays, and a fair estimate), you simply cannot argue that preventative care is cheaper than emergency room visits. And the more you deny people preventative care, the more emergency room visits you'll get. "If you can't do the math there, then you're helpless".

where to begin

1) No one is restricting care for the obese. They are free to get health insurance just like the rest of us. If the insurance company wants to charge them more because they are a higher risk, its hard to argue with that logic.
Furthermore, as I have stated earlier, I don't believe that more health care is the best answer for our obesity problem. You are guitly of circular logic here; trying to prove that the lack of health care is the problem by citing it as evidence of our ongoing health struggles. Nice try

2) My first post was very polite. You took on a tone of superiority when you suggested I look up an online dictionary to help understand your "big words" So you can dish it but not take it. quit whining, or be nice to begin with. But don't be suprised if you are rude and people are rude back. No one is going to be nice to you with that attitude

3) The cost to the patient (ie copays) is not the most relevant issue. We have been discussing the cost to the SYSTEM. My very first post made it perfectly clear I was talking about SYSTEM costs. While copays can be low, that is hardly relevant. The article does not discuss the effects of obesity on copays; it talks about the costs to the STATES. So why bring up copays? By the way, whether the money is coming from an insurance company, or from medicare/medicaid, someone is paying. Your contention, therefore, that unisnured are costing more is incorrect. Point that sentence out in the article that states otherwise if you can. Again, I ask you, did you read the article?

4)Why is becoming less obese not a viable option? I know its difficult, but it is the only way to control costs in this country. As I have pointed out to YOU, copays are not an accurate reflection of true health care costs. You may have a $25 copay, but your care may cost the system much more. Its reflective of your insurance plan---you could have a $1 copay or $1000 copay and cost the system the same--the person with the higher copay probably just pays less in premiums. Again, very irrelevant.

Finally, you are clearly not a physician. You absolutely have some misconceptions about health care. Allow me to illustrate:

Lets take an obese diabetic that is hypertensive with coronary disease. Lets say he has no health care and takes no medications, and sees no doctor. What will happen to him? Almost certainly he will have at least one heart attack, many ER visits, and probably die at age 50 something from a massive heart attack or stroke

Now lets take the same patient but this one has insurance, sees a doctor regularly, and takes all his meds. What will happen to him? He'll still probably have a heart attack. He may not come to the ER as much, but his heart attack will weaken his heart, necessitating an ICD, and possible a BiV ICD. He may eventually require stents, bypass surgery, and even an LVAD. He will now require the care of teams of cardiologists including electrophysiologists, heart failure specialists, and cardiothoracic surgeons. He will eventually die of a massive heart attack or end stage heart failure, or possibly an an arrythmia

Your biggest misconception is that prevantive care is ALWAYS cheaper and COMPLETELY removes ER visits/acute care. While it certainly helps, it more reduces the risk and may or may not reduce overall spending. It clearly leads to more elderly that are usually frail and require expensive care. Not a bad thing at all ethically, but terrible financially

Finally, lets take the same patient but remove his obesity and his subsequent sequela. He is probably at average risk for heart attack and neither situation above applies

That is my only point. That the best way to control costs in this country is reducing obesity. Further, trying to provide a scenario #2 level of care at a public level would bankrupt this country within a decade

I know this is going to sound flippant and uncaring, but here goes. I don't mean it in a harsh way, just my observation from working with the elderly and not so elderly with chronic health problems. Modern medicine prolongs the inevitable which is death. Often it prolongs the suffering, lowers the quality of life. Many live so long with these debilitating diseases that they exhaust all their resourses, if they had any, and eventually require Medicaid assistance, in addition to their Medicare.

Eric,

You clearly didn't read my posts, at all, or you're seriously mentally challenged. It would be WAY to exhausting to have to go back through and point out how you so grossly misinterpreted and skewed my words, and even if I did, you still wouldn't understand. At this point, you're just putting false words in my mouth so you can keep up your illogical argument. So let me address just your main point, and give YOU chance to flood me with your brilliant ideas:

Why is becoming less obese not a viable option? I know its difficult, but it is the only way to control costs in this country

I'm sitting here at my computer, hands behind my head, feet up on my desk, waiting with bated breath to hear how, exactly, this is a viable option. Are you going to be part of the food and exercise police, patrolling the nation's dinner tables, knocking forks out of our hands, bashing our TVs with baseball bats and shoving our fat asses onto a treadmill? Or maybe you have a brighter idea. Go ahead. I'm waiting. This should be good.

Maybe if you can find a way to force people to eat healthy and exercise, we can find other ways to govern their personal lives, and we'll just become the police-state nation we were born to be.

The only thing I will address, having worked for a health insurance company:

1) No one is restricting care for the obese. They are free to get health insurance just like the rest of us. If the insurance company wants to charge them more because they are a higher risk, its hard to argue with that logic.

Health insurance companies often ARE restricting care for the obese. In many states (Oregon, for example), we cannot "rate" anymore, so we just deny them health insurance.

I don't understand that logic, though... how does restricting health care to those who need it make us a humane nation, let alone a healthy nation? Health care is a commodity, with the dollar being the bottom line. It should be a service, with your health being the bottom line. That's why a drastic overhaul is needed for our healthcare system. If it's not obesity-related diseases, it would be cancer, or something else in the spotlight that people would want to stop covering.

I have a doctorate in medicine, and am a pracaticing cardiologist

I doubt if you graduated from high school. So keep your mentally challenged remarks to yourself, because Im smarter than you. Thats a fact

You essentially did not respond to anything I said regarding copays, cost of providing care after heart attacks, etc.

Instead you say "you don't want to reiterate" How convenient

What really is happening is you have no answer,. You have been proved wrong. Youre welcome

My main point is not that we need to find a way to become less obese. Its that we cannot afford to provide health insurance to everyone considering our obesity. Slightly different, but I don't expect someone of your intelligence to pick up on that nuance

But on that subject, allow me to quote one of your earlier posts

"Obesity is an effect of a society where we have a lack of education, a lack of access to resources for people to improve their lifestyle, and a lack of access to affordable healthcare. I do very strongly believe that increasing coverage in this country, making it accessible to the poor, who are mostly affected by obesity, as well as the rich, will improve obesity rates"

Now, a second quote

I'm sitting here at my computer, hands behind my head, feet up on my desk, waiting with bated breath to hear how, exactly, this is a viable option. Are you going to be part of the food and exercise police, patrolling the nation's dinner tables, knocking forks out of our hands, bashing our TVs with baseball bats and shoving our fat asses onto a treadmill? Or maybe you have a brighter idea. Go ahead. I'm waiting. This should be good.

Maybe if you can find a way to force people to eat healthy and exercise, we can find other ways to govern their personal lives, and we'll just become the police-state nation we were born to be.

Do you not see the contradiction in YOUR OWN POSTS?!?! While certainly we disagree on the how, you seem to strongly state that obesity CAN be controlled in this country in one post, and then act like an ass when I suggest it.

If you can't even state a consistent argument, how on earth do you expect to sway people?

Whos mentally challenged now?

clue: YOU

I have a doctorate in medicine, and am a pracaticing cardiologist

SURE you do. That's funny!

Okay. Fine. I'm wrong, I'm stupid, ignorant. (Nice things for a doctor to say by the way... bet your patients LOVE you). I'm still waiting to hear how you expect to make sure we lose weight and stop becoming obese.

...Still waiting...

(Also... shouldn't a practicing cardiologist be able to SPELL practicing? Just a thought... don't have a heart attack!)

most of my patients are much better behaved than you

I dont really care if you believe me or not, because, well, youre just not that important

Did you read my post???? Why did you act like such an ass when I suggested weight loss is possible, when you suggested it 2 posts ago?

Why do you care so much about my idea to reduce obesity? We could do the same things YOU suggested, but not necessarily by a doctor (which is expensive) but a counselor, community outreach, YMCA. It doesn't have to be done in a dr's office, as you insist for some reason

Please show me where I misquoted you or skewed your words, as you suggest. I looked back, and cant find it. I really think that you have no answer and that is a convenient excuse

youve had so many typos, yet you feel the need to go back and edit your post to point out one of mine. Wow, if you spent as much time correcting my typos as you did correcting your own, you'd be on to something

"too" as in excess, "to" is a preposition---saw that one, amost commented, but realized it would be pretty picky and not at all productive, and make me look like an arrogant ass, so I didn't.

Also, was the heart attack comment supposed to be funny? Umm, it was actually pretty lame. Probably should stay away from comedy from now on, just a tip

correcting your own as mine....

I could see you chomping at the bit for that one

Why do you care so much about my idea to reduce obesity?

Because you insisted that my ideas were a bunch of crap, and that you are so much mightier, smarter, more educated, more capable, nicer, a better person all-around. Please tell me how your idea will work.

I dont really care if you believe me or not, because, well, youre just not that important

If I'm so insignificant, why are you letting me get under your skin so much Dr. Eric?

Still waiting to hear how you think you can govern how people eat and exercise.

since you don't read my posts the first time around, maybe copying and pasting will help....Ive even bolded the appropriate sentence to help you

most of my patients are much better behaved than you

I dont really care if you believe me or not, because, well, youre just not that important

Did you read my post???? Why did you act like such an ass when I suggested weight loss is possible, when you suggested it 2 posts ago?

Why do you care so much about my idea to reduce obesity? We could do the same things YOU suggested, but not necessarily by a doctor (which is expensive) but a counselor, community outreach, YMCA. It doesn't have to be done in a dr's office, as you insist for some reason

Please show me where I misquoted you or skewed your words, as you suggest. I looked back, and cant find it. I really think that you have no answer and that is a convenient excuse

now its your turn. Please quote me specifically where I skewed your words or misquoted you

why are you getting under my skin? because youre an obnoxious, arrogant ass who thinks he s a health care expert because he temped for a insurance company, probably as an administrative assistant

This can't be the first time you've heard that

still waiting....

We could do the same things YOU suggested, but not necessarily by a doctor (which is expensive) but a counselor, community outreach, YMCA. It doesn't have to be done in a dr's office, as you insist for some reason

Hmm, interesting... I still think a counselor is pretty expensive (definitely way too expensive if you don't have health insurance), YMCA memberships are DEFINITELY expensive, and community outreaches still often rely on tax dollars. So I'm not sure why you seem to think your Ph.D.-approved solution is monetarily better for anyone.

I spent the majority of my posts above meticulously outlining quotes where you misinterpreted me, correcting you, repeating myself, only to have you mess it up all over again. I'm kind of over that. Feel free to go back and read it again for a good laugh though, I have been! Who doesn't love uppity, ridiculous doctors with over-inflated egos? But I'm a poor comedian though, so what do I know?

The problem I have with your "solution", Dr. Eric, is that you think America just "needs to lose weight". Okay. Yeah. I said like thirty times I agreed with you, but you can't just snap your fingers and make that happen. You can't enforce that. It's like saying "people just need to stop having sex and then we won't have any unwanted pregnancies!" Yeah, wouldn't that be nice? I'm willing to listen if you'll explain how this is possible.

I would LOVE it if people started eating better and exercising more. But in my personal experience, and your vastly superior experience as the most distinguished physician there ever was, I'm sure you realize that you can't just force someone to lose weight. They have to do it for themselves. So you can't just say "America needs to lose weight", and blame the whole affair on laziness. While what you say is true, it simply won't solve any issues.

why are you getting under my skin? because youre an obnoxious, arrogant ass who thinks he s a health care expert because he temped for a insurance company, probably as an administrative assistant

I'm a SHE, and I was an underwriter, for two years. (as I said before, twice, but we all know you have reading comprehension issues), working with Medical Directors, who were formerly a surgeon and a general physician, as my supervisors. I'm sure they were not as knowledgeable as you, though, so don't worry. Obnoxious? Arrogant? Maybe. Sure. I never denied it! But what does that make you?

certainly a counselor is cheaper than a doctor. And Im not talkiing one-on-one, but maybe group meetings, etc

And i mean free programs at the YMCA--while supported by taxpayers, still cheaper. No such thing as a free lunch, anywhere, for anything

You constantly say that I misquote you and misinterpret you, but when I press you on it, you say you've already pointed it out, and you are suddenly too tired. Hmm....

I don't even know what you disagree with me on

Obesity is a problem. Check

obesity and its associated illnesses are expensive to treat. Check

I agree that reducing obesity is difficult, and maybe even impossible, WITH or WITHOUT intervention by a health care provider. You seem to agree with this statement now, but didn't before. Hmm....

I guess the biggest point of contention is what to do next. You say offer insurance to everyone, and through preventative care the increased upfront costs will be more than covered by the savings from decreased acute care

Thats a big maybe. Please, please read my above post where I detailed 2 scenarios of the identical patient, one with insurance, one without

There is an interesting NEJM article about the possibility that preventative care will actually COST money. I wish I could find it. I'll keep looking

Whether you believe me or not, I have treated thousands of patients, and I can promise you that proper care is extremely expensive, and can't be measured by copays. And providing proper care to some of the sickest americans (the obese diabetics with heart disease) is some of the most expensive care there is.

While I agree that everyone needs and should have health care, I guess being in the industry has given me perspective that I find most people lack. The bottom line is that kind of care would bankrupt us

here you go...

http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMp0708558

and from now on, if you choose to respond, I'll just be the bigger person and ignore your blatant, immature insults

But realize if you continue with that attitude, people will be resent you and be rude right back.

PBN- you do not have health care- you have disease care- caring for your health is completely up to you. All of the points you make are taken out of context and have no scientific basis. ON the other hand, eric is almost 100% correct. While one can be thin or fat and still be healthy or unhealthy- and be malnourished in either instance- the problem is still people being completely uncaring about their own control and power, and expecting others to fix ( and pay) for everything.

I do the same with swimming. due to a number of injuries I had to stop doing a lot of the sports activities I had done on a daily basis for most of my life. Then I started traveling for business to other countries. Next thing you know I went from a 30 in waist that I had for decades to a 44 waist.

Now at 62 I went on a serious effort to restore my health.

I swim over a mile a day (had to work up to it) doing the quick few laps, rest 30 seconds and repeat. I walk half an hour per day, and do resistance training with cords.

I eat mostly vegetarian with some fish, occasional chicken and beef 2-3 times per month.

Since May I have lost 70 pounds, my BP is normal and our grocery bill is minimal.

No white rice or potatoes (some sweet potatoes), only sprouted breads (and only once in a while),

Brown & wild rice, quinoa, kale, Spinach, salads (spray dressing or rice vinegar), squashes, garlic, tomatoes, eggplant, cauliflower, broccoli, etc.

it can be done if people want to

Most people recognize 5% of obesity is truly a medical condition.

The rest - overeating and under active.

Larry is right, there are exceptions and You MJ may be one of them. The problem is the other 95% who can eat better and exercise. Im guilty myself but not anywhere near as bad as most of the folks walking around the local Walmart in Bolingbrook IL. Its amazing to see how many large unfit people along with their large children and the fatty foods in their carts. They park in handicap parking, waddle in, sit in the motorized cart, pick out all the microwavable foods and pay with their LINK cards. No lie, its happening right now and they are not the ones who were born that way, they chose that path and are burdening others and their children as well.

Larry-2094469, at least you are not completely close minded like some and you picked up & recognize obesity is not 100% overeating and under active. For your open mindedness, thank you.

The people that are obese aren't eating meat either. They are eating pre-packaged junk food and dining at fast food establishments as often as possible. :)

Well, what do you call most of what is available at fast food restaurants, vegetarian options? I don't think any hamburger, chicken burger, or bacon burger is vegetarian, thank you very much. Certainly not good, lean meat, but not meatless by any means.

Yup...I am not a proponent of studies/polls..ergo the conflicting 'statistics' of this and the article you refer to earlier.

i just read that story. I wish I had access to the original article, which I do not from my current location

But that article never once says that obese people can be healthier than age matched/comorbidity matched counterparts

In addition, all the article stated was that if one is obese but has no hypertension, diabetes, etc, than the mortality is equivalent to non obese people.

We know that it is the complications of obesity that is responsible for the majority of the negative health effects

In fact, if you are obese, and have other weight related diseases, then your mortality is 2 fold above non obese individuals

How that is in direct conflict with the above story I don't see...

But don't put polls and studies in the same category--they are different. And once you understand statistics, you will be able to read studies and also read the bs

Wishful thinking. Insurance is not going to solve this problem.

obesity is a BMI greater than 30

One interesting culture change I have noticed in my 56 years: as a society, we eat all the time. Just sit back and observe. In school: snacks, on the job: giant drink cups full of high fructose corn syrup. Nachos in the dugout at Little League. Over the years, the sheer variety and availability of high calorie, flavor inhanced, cheesy, overly sweet, overly salty fare has become a habitual presence. Observe the kids and parents at soccer, ballgames, etc., observe co-workers, you, me, your families. Everywhere one goes, people have some kind of drink or snack with them at all times. On the desk, in the cup holder of the car, parents and children alike feel like they must be noshing from am til pm. From my own experience, I know these processed snacks have an addicting quality, that makes you want more. Many people I know have so ruined their palates with these things that they can't enjoy simple, homemade, healthy fare. When I was growing up so many of these things were not available, plus we were not programmed to eat all day. Most of us boomers didn't get snacks in school, and our moms ran us out of the kitchen, until it was mealtime. We walked so much more just to get from point a to point b. I don't think we played as much organized sports, but we sure did a lot of running, jumping, and climbing. I feel sad when I see the little 6 - 10 year olds that are obese, and I don't mean the pleasant plumpness of childhood, but real clinical obesity. I have noticed ever increasing size of young people in their 20's in my community, and I wonder what is in store for them health wise.

"Since ILLEGAL aliens cost the states exponentially MORE money"

Really? What's your source for that information?

And if you drink you pay more. And if you smoke you pay more. And if you do drugs you pay more. And if you sustain sports injuries engaging in physical activity beyond that needed to maintain health, you pay more. Have I hit your vice yet?

Obesity is targeted because it's immediately visible. Most thin people I know have equally poor health vices, but the negative effects aren't immediately visible.

I'd like to see the chemicals removed from foods that weren't in them 50-60 years ago. No "engineered" livestock and produce.

50-60 years ago one spouse didn't work and took care of the home garden and made good home-cooked meals (that always weren't healthy, but were at least chemical free and not engineered). Only difference this time around is the guys stay home.

Kids played outside and roamed the neighborhood safely, the h*ll with political correctness (round up all the problem people into high rise public housing).

I'd like it for households be able to easily survive on one income, or a better job environment for dual-income earners (like France - 35 hr. wk., lots of vacation time, low stress, etc.)

If it costs more to eat healthy foods, then tell that to my mom who for years preached that we could not by x at the store (that friends had and was typically not very healthy) because it was too expensive. However, my mom and the rest of our family did tend to eat foods in season, cook in big batches and freeze to have instant, healthy meals, etc, etc. We even made our own sugar-free applesauce from our apple tree in the backyard. When I graduate university and have more time, I intend to take up gardening to grow some vegetables.

thats a joke right?

No, not really (well, maybe a little bit). Think of it. "We" spend $15 billion a year for obese people. How much do those same people spend every year on food? Probably lots, lots more. That means that businesses thrive, people work, everyone pays taxes. Do the math. McDonald's, alone made over $24 billion last year. Add to that all other fast food places, restaurants, junk food in supermarkets, etc., and you'll probably see well in the hundreds of billions. That translates into jobs and taxes. So, yes, investing $15 billion to take care of obese people and their problems is worthwhile and that's no joke.

Now, you need to think of this. Do unhealthy people cost money and die younger? Well, of course. Is that a drain on our economy? It's turning out that's not so. It's the healthy people who eat so-many calories a day of low fat, low carb and exercise and hour a day that eventually costs more money to us in taking care of them and their health. Hear me out. The first studies have been coming out showing that, in the long run, it's the "healthy" who end up costing more rather than the "unhealthy." Why is that? Well, people who smoke like chimneys, drink like fish, eat like elephants and move slower than a sloth do get sick younger, even mortally so, but when they do, they live for relatively short periods and die quickly after the piper comes a-callin'. As for "healthy" people, they live longer until the darkness of old age, especially dementia, come creeping up. Nothing "healthy" anyone can do will stop it. And when it comes, it lasts for not a few months and years, but for years and years (and even decades) and the care required (usually ending up in a nursing facility) is outrageously expensive. We pay for that, either through higher insurance rates or taxes (including the loss of their savings and income into the black hole of "health care" rather than being spent on stuff that actually provides jobs on an expanded surface). So, what's better? Eating, drinking, smoking and lounging and being diagnosed with cancer at 51 with a year to live, or having a heart attack at 52 and hitting the floor - or being diagnosed with Alzheimer's (and throw in deteriorating hips and other body parts) and languishing in some facility for the next dozen years? Let's face it - we're all going to die. You can exercise your heart to its proper beats and eat rabbit food to keep yourself at 2% body fat, but you're still going to get sick and die. And when you do, it's going to cost money. The question is, how much?

Despite working an active job on a loading dock, exercising in my free time away from work, and eating right. (including cutting out all things like soda and junk food) I am unable to get down to the weight that would drop me from the Morbidly Obese zone.

Even if what you say is true, this would be an exception - not the norm. Thirty two percent of a population does NOT fall into the category you describe.