Ever had a bad battery in your car? Flashlight? Batteries go bad even if not used. Nothing one can do about that. Technology fails. Never had car problems? Lucky you. Oh--you replace your car every three years. Good for you. Man will never find a way to make technology failproof. Not everyone who has a heart attack will be saved, just as not everyone who has cancer will be cured.
It is true. The best you can do is attempt to be vigilant, however, and if your profession involves having one of these around, I think this can be a wake-up call to pay more attention to maintaining these devices. Even if something can always go wrong, it never hurts to try and do a better job.
Yes indeed, they are but simple machines. As with all machines, they must be maintained.
The article states: " The gym’s staff later discovered that the AED’s batteries had been removed when they lost their charge — and had never been replaced." No wonder it did not work. Blame the batteries? The owner of the machine must maintain the equipment.
They are constantly reminding people to check the batteries in their smoke detectors. To make it easy on the simple they say to check them every time the time changes; which is twice a year.
And yes, I have a great pair of jumper cables. I have had them for 40 years, the wire is flexible to 30 degrees below zero. The battery dies, gets jumped, and then replaced.
Machines........Please check your car tires, that is all there is between you and the road. If they are worn, save your money and buy four new ones when the sales are on. Bargain with them, generally you can get at least 10% off......
I agree! This article should have focused on the number of lives SAVED because of AED availability not just the deaths due to battery failure. How refreshing it would be to see an article that states AED's SAVED $1,000,000 lives since becoming widely available for use. 1,542 lives may have been saved if the AED had been maintained. (This is an example)
I know I would think, "Wow, I better check the device and batteries cuz I don't want to be in the wrong category here." The owners of life saving technology need to take some responsibility for it being properly maintained and checked. Just as you check your battery in your smoke alarm to make sure it is working, AED's need to be maintained as well. Keep an extra set of batteries on hand too. Just a thought!
It is true that not all attack victims can be given more years of life. I'm an EMT and one of the things we remind each other is that we save no one. We give them the chance of more years of life.
Having said that, the majority of us are dedicated to doing our best to give them those years. That means keeping our own skills current and fresh and making certain our equipment is in good order. There is nothing we can do about AED's with bad wiring or intrinsically faulty batteries. However, it is inexcusable to leave an AED in place without batteries as an employee of the DC gym obviously did.
The protocol on our rig includes checking the AED after every run if it has been used or not. All of our supplies and equipment are also checked on a maintenance schedule.
you're right to an extent. "Cheap" AEDs are made in China, but there are many still built in the USA. Do some research and you will find out (clue: search for the expensive AEDs)
The individuals whose responsibility it was to perform AED readiness testing and regular maintenance - to replace the batteries and electrode pads before their expiration dates were not "made in China." They are the ones who are now liable.
Catherine Rucker, thanks for finally being someone displaying some common sense here. It's so typical these days that we always look to lay blame elsewhere with China being our favorite target. Kind of makes me wonder if the opposite is also true and every "comment thread" in China always leads to "we'd have money if we didn't send it all to those Americans".
I'm not so sure on a lawsuit. They are not required in most places. You can still call 911. It's an added benefit, but they could take them all away this afternoon and they wouldn't be liable for not having one.
If they were held liable, many places would simply remove them altogether.
If you can sue the paramedics for not getting to you in under 5 minutes, I guess you could sue. But I don't think I've heard of a case like that.
Busch Gardens in Florida was successfully sued because they did not have AED units, whereas Disney World did. The argument that it is better to not have AED units and to rely on the local EMS may save an entity from liability (for now). However, that attitude will likely not save lives when it is recommended to apply a defibrillator within 4-6 minutes of a sudden cardiac arrest.
If you walk into a place and see the device I think you have a reasonable expectation that the device is working and at least has batteries. If you do not see the device then your expectation is death. So not to sound cynical but these devices appear to be a major liability in our sue happy society.
Defibs not working because of bad batteries? if peps would do schedualed maintainance on safety equipment when they are supposed to, then there would 1500 more retards around. pretty simple, even a former Navy man can see the problem (odds are if you using a tool that isnt your own to save yourself or others, your &^%$ed. period.)
accountablity is a word the civilian world laughs at, it seems, in all manners of fail...
I have an internal defibrillator, and when my battery is getting low it makes a noise that is hard to ignore.
Why aren't the external ones equipped with a similar alarm? That way anyone passing it will know there is a problem and maybe notify someone to fix it.
200 postings and Mr. DeLioncourt is the only guy smart enough to make this suggestion. The low battery chirping alarm can be found in $10 smoke alarms. Shouldn't be too hard to add it to a defibrillator. I guess the other 199 of us were too busy trying to assign blame to come up with a solution.
In Fire Rescue Depts, Surf Rescue Depts and Hospitals all across this country right now, professional rescue workers are checking and maintaining equipment. AEDs need to be checked regularly if not those in charge of such equipment are negligent.
I have a wind-up radio and flashlight. You just turn the handle for a short period of time and they work. They never need batteries. If you have two people, one can crank it while the other applies it, so you can use it immediately! They should make wind-up AEDs! Then you never need batteries!
Facilities with AED's should have back-up batteries for all units and be swapping them out to be tested, recharged and/or reconditioned on a regular basis. Failure to perform this routine maintenance is the likely cause of this problem, not a manufacturing defect. Any rechargeable battery will fail from lack of use and maintenance.
FYI, AEDs do not use rechargable batteries. Typically they are Lithium or Manganese type batteries (depends on the manufacturer). Those battery technologies are less susceptible to the type of failures you suggest
It is sad to show that the study showed so many deaths. AED's are indeed a lifesaver if they are maintained correctly. Once an AED is placed in a facility they should be manually checked-not visually checked. They should be turned on at least every two weeks to manually check the batteries. A log should be kept showing -time-date and who checked the AED. The article states that the AED is used to start the heart, the AED is used to actually stop the heart from a shockable rhythem, followed by good CPR. The AED will not save everyone, there are rhythems that cannot be shocked. All facilities having an AED should have multiple if not all employees trained in CPR and the proper use of the AED. Also, read the manual that comes with the AED, don'talways blame the AED failure on the device.
It is sad that the study showed that so many people died. The AED's placed in any facility should be checked at least every two weeks, not visually but by turning them on manually. A log should be kept with the time, date and who checked the device. Even though new batteries may have a charge life of a few years, even new batteries caqn fail. Facilities having an AED should have all of their employees trained in CPR as well as the proper use of the AED. The article says that an AED is used to start the heart, the AED is used to stop a shockable rhythem, thus stopping the heart. Once the AED shock button is pushed, immediate CPR is needed to help stimulate the heart back into a good sinus rhythem.Please read the manual that comes with the AED, and take a CPR class. Push hard (at least 2") push fast (at least 100 compressions a minute). How many lives were saved by the proper use of the AED?
You hit on a glaring omission from the article. If its not Vfib or Vtach an AED won't fire anyway. So the death toll from improperly operating AED's is presupposing that all the patient had a shockable rhythm. Still not good but as usual only about half of the details are there.
They should have used Energizer,the battery that keeps on going,and going,and going,and,going,and going,and going,and going,and going,and going.etc,etc,etc.
In accordance with OSHA requirements, fire extenguishers must be inspected periodically and replaced as needed. I would hope that these De-Fib devices also have inspection & testing requirements.
i would agree...But only at the company's expense, just like with fire extinguishers. not another govt. agency......let the H.R. people do it... they sure as hell are not busy hiring. and even those few that are use temp agency's.
The AED manufacturers provide AED inspection & testing requirements - because they are specific to the individual model. As for requirements to actually perform readiness tests and to keep records thereof, that is up to the individual States to decide.
JamVee - I thought the same thing. The fire extinguisher company comes out once a year to inspect them in my building, why not do something similar with the AED's?
Sounds to me that this could be a good job opportunity for someone.
Catherine, "that is up to the individual States to decide" sounds like there is different human biology in all 50 states. Americans are special, but 50 different species? That's a complaint I've had for years about the licensing and tracking of doctors, that would lower the malpractice insurance if there were records and tracking that went across state lines.
They are supposed to be inspected monthly. I am a Safety Inspector for a contract company in D.C. OSHA requires that first aid kits are maintained in every office building containing more than 13 people. At this time, AED's are not required on site, however if they are on site, they are to be inspected monthly. It does depend on the individual states OSH rules, but more and more are adapting policies to prevent issues like these.
I personally inspect each unit monthly. The office buildings are full of fat government employees that don't know what an honest days work actually consists of, therefore I make sure the AED works in case they choke on their donuts.....
This seems like an ideal application for electric double layer capacitors (aka super or ultra capacitors).
These devices not only last much longer than conventional batteries, they can absorb a charge much more rapidly such that off-the-grid charging might be possible quickly enough for emergency situations.
they do, but you have to turn them on, they are usually not rechargeable so an indicator would drain the battery. a simple weekly test will tell you if there is enough power, they will tell you ahead of time that they are running out.
bigger problem than that is the 400.00 battery to replace a bad one (well in mine anyway)
AED's do have simple "readiness indicators," which indicate battery charge AND the circuitry. The indicators depend on the vendor. Some may have a blinking green light, and some may have both visual and audible indicators.
I was one of the first persons in my area to be saved by one of these devices carried by EMT responders. I have read a number of the posts above and agree that there may need to be some more education on the AED, its purpose and its use, as well as the accountability of those that provide public access to them. I lay dying in a parking lot of a facility that had one and no one used it, because they didnt even know it was there. i was fortunate that this happened in a parking lot within eye shot of a hospital and Emergency Response was swift, saving my life with seconds to spare using an AED. By all accounts, I was a healthy person. I ate well, exercised and played ice hockey. I wasnt fat and did not have a desk job. If you are fighting for your life, all you ask for is a chance. a little more time to fight. They work, I am proof of that. Shame on the person that takes the batteries out and doesnt replace them. just pull the thing off of the wall until they do. An audible and visual alarm when batteries are low or removed would be a way of alerting the public not to rely on that unit in the case of an emergency as well as provide some incentive for facilities to correct the problem to avoid the embarrassment.
A/C current will not provide the required voltage. Sorry - has to be a battery, and someone must check that the battery is ready and within its useful shelf life.
That's not true Catherine, you can use any power source you want. What happens is that source charges up a set of capacitors, once the desired charge gets built up, it discharges and produces the shock. The batteries by themselves are incapable off delivering the necessary shock. If you really wanted to, you could use a hamster in a wheel that's connected to a generator to charge the capacitors.
Even under the best of conditions the survival rates of someone who has experienced an MI are not very high. TV and the movies has given people the idea that the vast majority of people can be brought back, and that just isn't the case. The fact that the AED didn't have batteries certainly sealed this individuals fate.
"MI" stands for myocardial infarction, which means death to an area of the heart due to poor circulation. Sometimes "MI's" or "heart attacks" do cause sudden cardiac arrest. However, there are many congenital heart conditions that can also cause sudden cardiac arrest. Some examples are Long-QT syndrome and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. An AED can be applied to anyone who has suffered a sudden cardiac arrest. I would rather have "some" chance of survival than no chance of survival.
If you want some chance of survival in case of a relatively rare incident, better carry your own AED. Private businesses, unless they are healthcare facilities, should not have to shoulder the cost to provide a machine that is unlikely to be used, and just as unlikely to be of help when used.
ok, there are 1000 deaths happen when an AED fails, but how many lives were saved because the AEDs worked. How many lives saved because there was an AED nearby? Is there room for improvement? yes. What of the responsibility of the location to verify that it works? We do semi-annual checks on all our AEDs and regullary swap out the batteries. Rechargeable batteries requiring an electrical plug in the case may be an option, but I have systems that are rechargeable and I have to watch where people have unplugged them. It falls to the responsibility of the organization!
Human error. It's one thing when an AED malfunctions, but to not have a battery in it. Looks like someone didn't do their job and it may have cost this man his life. Not saying it would have saved him, but very well could have.
a group of doctors and physicial all sitting around with endoscopes, catheters and such all displayed on a table in the center of the room. one of the doctors looks around nervously; it's clear he doesn't know what's going on. hirshfield walks into the room, looks at the nervous doctor and says, 'doctor, we all love you, but we feel you've spent too much time at work. this... is an intervention'.
This is why it is so important to know the proper way to administer CPR! AED's are only there to help increase chances of survival, but they are a mechanical device, and thus prone to failure.
Rescuers perform CPR until which time a defibrillator can be brought to the scene. The defibrillator can be located on the scene, or one can be brought by an ambulance crew, a fire engine crew, or a police officer. There are 5 links in the American Heart Association's "Cardiac Chain of Survival." They are: Early Activation of 911, Early CPR, Early Defibrillation, Early Advanced Care, and Post sudden cardiac arrest care - in the hospital. All of the links are vital.
I think the battery issue should be the responsibility of the property owner...to make sure that batteries are up to date....This would be the same concept as making sure batteries are changed in smoke detectors.
The trend of the day is to blame manufacturers, so no one has to take responsibility for not doing their job. Whoever took the battery out should have immediately replaced it. And you would probably be amazed at how many people don't change batteries in smoke detectors. No one seems to want the jobs that anyone can do, although someone could do it. Irresponsibility runs rampant in this world today.
jrae - fire extinguishers are low tech devices; they are easier to inspect and much, much cheaper to maintain or replace than AEDs. Also, fires have the potential to cause extensive damage to property and many lives, while a cardiac arrest will only cause one death. Most people would rather have a fire extinguisher around than an AED.
Furthermore, fires are much more common than cardiac arrests in public places. Finally, a fire extinguisher has a much, much higher chance of putting out a fire than an AED has of pulling someone out of a cardiac arrest. There is a reason many people have fire extinguishers in their homes while very few have an AED.
I am a nurse.I say when it's your time to leave earth,it just is.Technology is grand,but it often fails.That is no surprise to me.Often,even with all of our technology,people still die.That's just how it is.You can accept it.I don't look for that to change.You can just do your best with what you have and leave it at that.WE will all die someday.
"Regulations were put into place as a result of unreasonable, unfair business practices. They weren't 'thought up' as ways to impede business. They are a result of the way business tries to do business."
I noticed that, and that his family said it was a shame this happened to such a young man. Well, I know we always look upon ourselves as being "young", no matter what age we are, and that 55 is not exactly ancient. But I don't think 55 is what we would generally classify as a "young" man either. Middle aged maybe; but not young. Anyway, whatever the age, I'm sorry to hear what happened to him and the reason why.
This seems to be a relative non-issue. The only reason these things are everywhere now is due to a dramatic drop in price over the last few years. With more instances of use the more failures there will be, especially for a device made for the mass public, they aren't just in ambulances anymore. 1150 over 15 years isn't an epidemic and is not indicative of modern devices in general. In most cases, these devices sit unused and forgotten for years. Of course a failure is bound to happen. Don't rely on technology as fail-proof. As a previous poster noted, how many people have been saved due to these devices? Of the instances of use, what is the success rate of saving a life. Just because you shock a heart, it doesn't mean its going to restart.
Very intelligent post. Of all the gazillion people in the world, 1150 is but a drop in the bucket. Folks aren't made to live forever. And when it's your time to go, nothing will stop it from happening.
The root cause could be that these devices are not mandatory or regulated. If everyone feels that they are this crucial then require them and regulate. Will this save everyone NO, but at least you would have required inspections and maybe even required training on how to use them. A lot of companies sale these and as soon as you buy you are added to a tickler file of upgarde now because of this article that says batteries of this type fail 75% of the time or studies show an AED older than 2 years statistically fail at 75%. Reality check...they do save lives, they will fail periodically, people will not check batteries...either regulate them or turn the other cheek when one fails...dont blame a resort for trying to do the right thing and installing one. Get off the fence and choose a side.
We have to get a different mind-set. Regulation is NOT a bad thing when it saves lives.
In another post, somebody noted that there are no real surveys out there... for anything health related. We don't know what works or what doesn't. How is that scientific?
You can't go around regulating everything. There are lots of things that save some lives, but are highly impractical or cost-prohibitive to institute. Life guards save lives. It makes sense to have them in a public swimming pool that is used by lots of people. It doesn't make sense to have them on every beach, even though drownings can happen at any beach. Who would pay for a life guard at every beach?
AED's cannot use rechargeable batteries. The battery pack is placed in the unit, and then the charge will eventually drain to the point where the unit will not function. And so it is necessary to replace the battery before the recommended date and to also perform regular readiness testing - for the battery charge and also that the AED circuitry is ready to function.
By approving AED units for lay rescuer use, the FDA's intent was to protect lives. If a business, as an entity, has AED units and wants to protect its assets, then it must follow the manufacturer's instructions, as well as any applicable AED statutes and regulations within the State.
Ever had a bad battery in your car? Flashlight? Batteries go bad even if not used. Nothing one can do about that. Technology fails. Never had car problems? Lucky you. Oh--you replace your car every three years. Good for you. Man will never find a way to make technology failproof. Not everyone who has a heart attack will be saved, just as not everyone who has cancer will be cured.
It is true. The best you can do is attempt to be vigilant, however, and if your profession involves having one of these around, I think this can be a wake-up call to pay more attention to maintaining these devices. Even if something can always go wrong, it never hurts to try and do a better job.
Yes indeed, they are but simple machines. As with all machines, they must be maintained.
The article states: " The gym’s staff later discovered that the AED’s batteries had been removed when they lost their charge — and had never been replaced." No wonder it did not work. Blame the batteries? The owner of the machine must maintain the equipment.
They are constantly reminding people to check the batteries in their smoke detectors. To make it easy on the simple they say to check them every time the time changes; which is twice a year.
And yes, I have a great pair of jumper cables. I have had them for 40 years, the wire is flexible to 30 degrees below zero. The battery dies, gets jumped, and then replaced.
Machines........Please check your car tires, that is all there is between you and the road. If they are worn, save your money and buy four new ones when the sales are on. Bargain with them, generally you can get at least 10% off......
I agree! This article should have focused on the number of lives SAVED because of AED availability not just the deaths due to battery failure. How refreshing it would be to see an article that states AED's SAVED $1,000,000 lives since becoming widely available for use. 1,542 lives may have been saved if the AED had been maintained. (This is an example)
I know I would think, "Wow, I better check the device and batteries cuz I don't want to be in the wrong category here." The owners of life saving technology need to take some responsibility for it being properly maintained and checked. Just as you check your battery in your smoke alarm to make sure it is working, AED's need to be maintained as well. Keep an extra set of batteries on hand too. Just a thought!
It is true that not all attack victims can be given more years of life. I'm an EMT and one of the things we remind each other is that we save no one. We give them the chance of more years of life.
Having said that, the majority of us are dedicated to doing our best to give them those years. That means keeping our own skills current and fresh and making certain our equipment is in good order. There is nothing we can do about AED's with bad wiring or intrinsically faulty batteries. However, it is inexcusable to leave an AED in place without batteries as an employee of the DC gym obviously did.
The protocol on our rig includes checking the AED after every run if it has been used or not. All of our supplies and equipment are also checked on a maintenance schedule.
AED'S 95% are made in China, we can not make anything anymore!
@Saxon
Bingo! You nailed it. Made in China.
But our elected officials are sure spend millions of tax dollars trying to figure this out.
Saxon,
you're right to an extent. "Cheap" AEDs are made in China, but there are many still built in the USA. Do some research and you will find out (clue: search for the expensive AEDs)
Jason,
Maybe Duracell can capitalize on this. "This is what happens when your batteries are not Duracell!".
Mickey,
It seems to me that Duracell ran an ad several years ago boasting that most AEDs used their brand for reliability. OOOPS!
How about an ad showing the energizer bunny getting brought back with an AED run on Duracells....
dan42day,
"It seems to me that Duracell ran an ad several years ago boasting that most AEDs used their brand for reliability. OOOPS!"
Really? You're not just pulling my leg, are you?
Ben,
That's a good one about the Energizer Bunny!
Same problems will happen with an electric car - or "stranders" as we call them.
You either run out of battery or the battery runs out on you.
Either way, expect a bill more expensive than a new motor AND transmission on a regular vehicle.
The individuals whose responsibility it was to perform AED readiness testing and regular maintenance - to replace the batteries and electrode pads before their expiration dates were not "made in China." They are the ones who are now liable.
Catherine Rucker, thanks for finally being someone displaying some common sense here. It's so typical these days that we always look to lay blame elsewhere with China being our favorite target. Kind of makes me wonder if the opposite is also true and every "comment thread" in China always leads to "we'd have money if we didn't send it all to those Americans".
This smells like lawsuit. Say goodbye to these machines because not having them eliminates the liability.
I'm not so sure on a lawsuit. They are not required in most places. You can still call 911. It's an added benefit, but they could take them all away this afternoon and they wouldn't be liable for not having one.
If they were held liable, many places would simply remove them altogether.
If you can sue the paramedics for not getting to you in under 5 minutes, I guess you could sue. But I don't think I've heard of a case like that.
Smells like one to me as well, ala Erin Brockovich. They're just exploring options on who to name and enlarging their plaintiff pool.
Busch Gardens in Florida was successfully sued because they did not have AED units, whereas Disney World did. The argument that it is better to not have AED units and to rely on the local EMS may save an entity from liability (for now). However, that attitude will likely not save lives when it is recommended to apply a defibrillator within 4-6 minutes of a sudden cardiac arrest.
If you walk into a place and see the device I think you have a reasonable expectation that the device is working and at least has batteries. If you do not see the device then your expectation is death. So not to sound cynical but these devices appear to be a major liability in our sue happy society.
It's Obama's fault.
Mickey,
It was about Zoll defibrillators choosing Duracell. You can find it on Youtube.
type Duracell commercial defib into the search field or just click on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arBHzTJUJW8
Defibs not working because of bad batteries? if peps would do schedualed maintainance on safety equipment when they are supposed to, then there would 1500 more retards around. pretty simple, even a former Navy man can see the problem (odds are if you using a tool that isnt your own to save yourself or others, your &^%$ed. period.)
accountablity is a word the civilian world laughs at, it seems, in all manners of fail...
I have an internal defibrillator, and when my battery is getting low it makes a noise that is hard to ignore.
Why aren't the external ones equipped with a similar alarm? That way anyone passing it will know there is a problem and maybe notify someone to fix it.
lamort - great solution-focus.
200 postings and Mr. DeLioncourt is the only guy smart enough to make this suggestion. The low battery chirping alarm can be found in $10 smoke alarms. Shouldn't be too hard to add it to a defibrillator. I guess the other 199 of us were too busy trying to assign blame to come up with a solution.
In Fire Rescue Depts, Surf Rescue Depts and Hospitals all across this country right now, professional rescue workers are checking and maintaining equipment. AEDs need to be checked regularly if not those in charge of such equipment are negligent.
I have a wind-up radio and flashlight. You just turn the handle for a short period of time and they work. They never need batteries. If you have two people, one can crank it while the other applies it, so you can use it immediately! They should make wind-up AEDs! Then you never need batteries!
Facilities with AED's should have back-up batteries for all units and be swapping them out to be tested, recharged and/or reconditioned on a regular basis. Failure to perform this routine maintenance is the likely cause of this problem, not a manufacturing defect. Any rechargeable battery will fail from lack of use and maintenance.
FYI, AEDs do not use rechargable batteries. Typically they are Lithium or Manganese type batteries (depends on the manufacturer). Those battery technologies are less susceptible to the type of failures you suggest
It is sad to show that the study showed so many deaths. AED's are indeed a lifesaver if they are maintained correctly. Once an AED is placed in a facility they should be manually checked-not visually checked. They should be turned on at least every two weeks to manually check the batteries. A log should be kept showing -time-date and who checked the AED. The article states that the AED is used to start the heart, the AED is used to actually stop the heart from a shockable rhythem, followed by good CPR. The AED will not save everyone, there are rhythems that cannot be shocked. All facilities having an AED should have multiple if not all employees trained in CPR and the proper use of the AED. Also, read the manual that comes with the AED, don'talways blame the AED failure on the device.
A bigger problem is the number of deaths caused by bad/missing batteries in smoke detectors....
That is SO true, a mom lost her 4 kid's and her husband because they had no batteries in the detectors....sigh
Whoever took that AED battery out and didn't replace it....shame, shame..
It is sad that the study showed that so many people died. The AED's placed in any facility should be checked at least every two weeks, not visually but by turning them on manually. A log should be kept with the time, date and who checked the device. Even though new batteries may have a charge life of a few years, even new batteries caqn fail. Facilities having an AED should have all of their employees trained in CPR as well as the proper use of the AED. The article says that an AED is used to start the heart, the AED is used to stop a shockable rhythem, thus stopping the heart. Once the AED shock button is pushed, immediate CPR is needed to help stimulate the heart back into a good sinus rhythem.Please read the manual that comes with the AED, and take a CPR class. Push hard (at least 2") push fast (at least 100 compressions a minute). How many lives were saved by the proper use of the AED?
You hit on a glaring omission from the article. If its not Vfib or Vtach an AED won't fire anyway. So the death toll from improperly operating AED's is presupposing that all the patient had a shockable rhythm. Still not good but as usual only about half of the details are there.
They should have used Energizer,the battery that keeps on going,and going,and going,and,going,and going,and going,and going,and going,and going.etc,etc,etc.
In accordance with OSHA requirements, fire extenguishers must be inspected periodically and replaced as needed. I would hope that these De-Fib devices also have inspection & testing requirements.
i would agree...But only at the company's expense, just like with fire extinguishers. not another govt. agency......let the H.R. people do it... they sure as hell are not busy hiring. and even those few that are use temp agency's.
The AED manufacturers provide AED inspection & testing requirements - because they are specific to the individual model. As for requirements to actually perform readiness tests and to keep records thereof, that is up to the individual States to decide.
JamVee - I thought the same thing. The fire extinguisher company comes out once a year to inspect them in my building, why not do something similar with the AED's?
Sounds to me that this could be a good job opportunity for someone.
Catherine, "that is up to the individual States to decide" sounds like there is different human biology in all 50 states. Americans are special, but 50 different species? That's a complaint I've had for years about the licensing and tracking of doctors, that would lower the malpractice insurance if there were records and tracking that went across state lines.
They are supposed to be inspected monthly. I am a Safety Inspector for a contract company in D.C. OSHA requires that first aid kits are maintained in every office building containing more than 13 people. At this time, AED's are not required on site, however if they are on site, they are to be inspected monthly. It does depend on the individual states OSH rules, but more and more are adapting policies to prevent issues like these.
I personally inspect each unit monthly. The office buildings are full of fat government employees that don't know what an honest days work actually consists of, therefore I make sure the AED works in case they choke on their donuts.....
This seems like an ideal application for electric double layer capacitors (aka super or ultra capacitors).
These devices not only last much longer than conventional batteries, they can absorb a charge much more rapidly such that off-the-grid charging might be possible quickly enough for emergency situations.
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/44477
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_double-layer_capacitor
Why cant AED have a simple battery status indicator?
Or do we want more jobs?
Yea similar to the fire extinguishers create inspection stickers and make someone go and check them.....
A battery status indicator wouldn't work when there is no battery. The complete system would be dead.
they do, but you have to turn them on, they are usually not rechargeable so an indicator would drain the battery. a simple weekly test will tell you if there is enough power, they will tell you ahead of time that they are running out.
bigger problem than that is the 400.00 battery to replace a bad one (well in mine anyway)
Dave. At that cost, I'll take my chances without one. I guess when my bell tolls, I'll just go, kicking and screaming to my death.
AED's do have simple "readiness indicators," which indicate battery charge AND the circuitry. The indicators depend on the vendor. Some may have a blinking green light, and some may have both visual and audible indicators.
I was one of the first persons in my area to be saved by one of these devices carried by EMT responders. I have read a number of the posts above and agree that there may need to be some more education on the AED, its purpose and its use, as well as the accountability of those that provide public access to them. I lay dying in a parking lot of a facility that had one and no one used it, because they didnt even know it was there. i was fortunate that this happened in a parking lot within eye shot of a hospital and Emergency Response was swift, saving my life with seconds to spare using an AED. By all accounts, I was a healthy person. I ate well, exercised and played ice hockey. I wasnt fat and did not have a desk job. If you are fighting for your life, all you ask for is a chance. a little more time to fight. They work, I am proof of that. Shame on the person that takes the batteries out and doesnt replace them. just pull the thing off of the wall until they do. An audible and visual alarm when batteries are low or removed would be a way of alerting the public not to rely on that unit in the case of an emergency as well as provide some incentive for facilities to correct the problem to avoid the embarrassment.
?
Maybe there should be an electric cord & plug built into the unit so you can plug it in if the battery fails
You figure that would be a no brainer.
A/C current will not provide the required voltage. Sorry - has to be a battery, and someone must check that the battery is ready and within its useful shelf life.
That's not true Catherine, you can use any power source you want. What happens is that source charges up a set of capacitors, once the desired charge gets built up, it discharges and produces the shock. The batteries by themselves are incapable off delivering the necessary shock. If you really wanted to, you could use a hamster in a wheel that's connected to a generator to charge the capacitors.
Mitchell
Sounds mostly like a non issue. No battery lasts forever. If the owner doesn't maintain the device it isn't the fault of the manufacturer.
Even under the best of conditions the survival rates of someone who has experienced an MI are not very high. TV and the movies has given people the idea that the vast majority of people can be brought back, and that just isn't the case. The fact that the AED didn't have batteries certainly sealed this individuals fate.
"MI" stands for myocardial infarction, which means death to an area of the heart due to poor circulation. Sometimes "MI's" or "heart attacks" do cause sudden cardiac arrest. However, there are many congenital heart conditions that can also cause sudden cardiac arrest. Some examples are Long-QT syndrome and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. An AED can be applied to anyone who has suffered a sudden cardiac arrest. I would rather have "some" chance of survival than no chance of survival.
If you want some chance of survival in case of a relatively rare incident, better carry your own AED. Private businesses, unless they are healthcare facilities, should not have to shoulder the cost to provide a machine that is unlikely to be used, and just as unlikely to be of help when used.
ok, there are 1000 deaths happen when an AED fails, but how many lives were saved because the AEDs worked. How many lives saved because there was an AED nearby? Is there room for improvement? yes. What of the responsibility of the location to verify that it works? We do semi-annual checks on all our AEDs and regullary swap out the batteries. Rechargeable batteries requiring an electrical plug in the case may be an option, but I have systems that are rechargeable and I have to watch where people have unplugged them. It falls to the responsibility of the organization!
Human error. It's one thing when an AED malfunctions, but to not have a battery in it. Looks like someone didn't do their job and it may have cost this man his life. Not saying it would have saved him, but very well could have.
" said Hirshfeld, an interventional cardiologist"
... i can see it all now:
a group of doctors and physicial all sitting around with endoscopes, catheters and such all displayed on a table in the center of the room. one of the doctors looks around nervously; it's clear he doesn't know what's going on. hirshfield walks into the room, looks at the nervous doctor and says, 'doctor, we all love you, but we feel you've spent too much time at work. this... is an intervention'.
huh?
This is why it is so important to know the proper way to administer CPR! AED's are only there to help increase chances of survival, but they are a mechanical device, and thus prone to failure.
Rescuers perform CPR until which time a defibrillator can be brought to the scene. The defibrillator can be located on the scene, or one can be brought by an ambulance crew, a fire engine crew, or a police officer. There are 5 links in the American Heart Association's "Cardiac Chain of Survival." They are: Early Activation of 911, Early CPR, Early Defibrillation, Early Advanced Care, and Post sudden cardiac arrest care - in the hospital. All of the links are vital.
I think the battery issue should be the responsibility of the property owner...to make sure that batteries are up to date....This would be the same concept as making sure batteries are changed in smoke detectors.
The trend of the day is to blame manufacturers, so no one has to take responsibility for not doing their job. Whoever took the battery out should have immediately replaced it. And you would probably be amazed at how many people don't change batteries in smoke detectors. No one seems to want the jobs that anyone can do, although someone could do it. Irresponsibility runs rampant in this world today.
Fire extinguishers have to be regularly inspected...why not defribullators?
jrae - fire extinguishers are low tech devices; they are easier to inspect and much, much cheaper to maintain or replace than AEDs. Also, fires have the potential to cause extensive damage to property and many lives, while a cardiac arrest will only cause one death. Most people would rather have a fire extinguisher around than an AED.
Furthermore, fires are much more common than cardiac arrests in public places. Finally, a fire extinguisher has a much, much higher chance of putting out a fire than an AED has of pulling someone out of a cardiac arrest. There is a reason many people have fire extinguishers in their homes while very few have an AED.
I am a nurse.I say when it's your time to leave earth,it just is.Technology is grand,but it often fails.That is no surprise to me.Often,even with all of our technology,people still die.That's just how it is.You can accept it.I don't look for that to change.You can just do your best with what you have and leave it at that.WE will all die someday.
That is so true. If it is your time to go, nothing can prevent it.
As a nurse, you must be certified in CPR with AED. Also as a nurse, you have a "duty to act," whether you believe in the technology or not.
and that duty to act is only good if the tools you try to use is working.
Chaplin Eddie Greyfox Burgess. MHRTC,BHP-RC,IPSS, MRT
"Regulations were put into place as a result of unreasonable, unfair business practices. They weren't 'thought up' as ways to impede business. They are a result of the way business tries to do business."
he was 55 working out at a gym....yet another reason i prefer weight lifting at home...12-16 ounces at a time of course............:)
la. ScooterTramp,
"he was 55 working out at a gym"
I noticed that, and that his family said it was a shame this happened to such a young man. Well, I know we always look upon ourselves as being "young", no matter what age we are, and that 55 is not exactly ancient. But I don't think 55 is what we would generally classify as a "young" man either. Middle aged maybe; but not young. Anyway, whatever the age, I'm sorry to hear what happened to him and the reason why.
This seems to be a relative non-issue. The only reason these things are everywhere now is due to a dramatic drop in price over the last few years. With more instances of use the more failures there will be, especially for a device made for the mass public, they aren't just in ambulances anymore. 1150 over 15 years isn't an epidemic and is not indicative of modern devices in general. In most cases, these devices sit unused and forgotten for years. Of course a failure is bound to happen. Don't rely on technology as fail-proof. As a previous poster noted, how many people have been saved due to these devices? Of the instances of use, what is the success rate of saving a life. Just because you shock a heart, it doesn't mean its going to restart.
Very intelligent post. Of all the gazillion people in the world, 1150 is but a drop in the bucket. Folks aren't made to live forever. And when it's your time to go, nothing will stop it from happening.
The root cause could be that these devices are not mandatory or regulated. If everyone feels that they are this crucial then require them and regulate. Will this save everyone NO, but at least you would have required inspections and maybe even required training on how to use them. A lot of companies sale these and as soon as you buy you are added to a tickler file of upgarde now because of this article that says batteries of this type fail 75% of the time or studies show an AED older than 2 years statistically fail at 75%. Reality check...they do save lives, they will fail periodically, people will not check batteries...either regulate them or turn the other cheek when one fails...dont blame a resort for trying to do the right thing and installing one. Get off the fence and choose a side.
We have to get a different mind-set. Regulation is NOT a bad thing when it saves lives.
In another post, somebody noted that there are no real surveys out there... for anything health related. We don't know what works or what doesn't. How is that scientific?
You can't go around regulating everything. There are lots of things that save some lives, but are highly impractical or cost-prohibitive to institute. Life guards save lives. It makes sense to have them in a public swimming pool that is used by lots of people. It doesn't make sense to have them on every beach, even though drownings can happen at any beach. Who would pay for a life guard at every beach?
Agreed. Still, I wonder if they could redesign the defibrillators so that when up back in storage, the battery is charged.
AED's cannot use rechargeable batteries. The battery pack is placed in the unit, and then the charge will eventually drain to the point where the unit will not function. And so it is necessary to replace the battery before the recommended date and to also perform regular readiness testing - for the battery charge and also that the AED circuitry is ready to function.
Gotta love the FDA... protecting business.
By approving AED units for lay rescuer use, the FDA's intent was to protect lives. If a business, as an entity, has AED units and wants to protect its assets, then it must follow the manufacturer's instructions, as well as any applicable AED statutes and regulations within the State.