He is an excellent example of "Christian" compassion, tolerance and acceptance. He has to give these statements for his ideas are becoming less relevant every day it passes... Crises make people thing and this ignorance predator has thrived on extreme ignorance for far too long!

RamFla:

First of all using Robertson's ignorant statement as an opportunity to slam "Christians"is to be expected from some, I guess some like yourself, but that just shows that Robertson's ignorant statement isn't alone. But please don't judge all who believe in Christ and assume they are all in agreement with what Robertson said. What Robertson said was so wrong and totally lacking compassion for the one who is sick. Actually, I was watching the 700 club show that night he make the sick statement and I was totally disgusted by his remark. He was totally wrong in what he said and his co host Terri seemed disturbed at what he said as well. As soon as he said what he did I knew that it would be plastered all over the media. He should have never said what he did. He totally contradicted what the bible says about the marriage vows.

"Christian" compassion, tolerance and acceptance is what you stated above. Doesn't compassion mean compassion and tolerance mean tolerance and acceptance mean acceptance??

Be well. Peace.

Christians suck, and Pat too..

I do believe that Robertson is very brave for wading into this fray. I do not believe he said that a person SHOULD divorce a spouse with advanced Alzheimer's, but only that it may be a possibility for someone who is not capable of providing such extensive care.

Casting stones against Rob'son is hypocritically easy for those who've not faced such painful options. I do not necessarily agree with Robertson, but would not judge him. Only those who have had to face this experience, which I have not, can speak with compassion and understanding on it.

There is certainly the possibility that the stricken spouse would not want their healthy loved one to abandon that healthy life in pursuit of such debilitating care. Love works both ways in such unimaginably painful situations.

Then your statement seems to indicate that you would also believe that none of us should judge others? I am not necessarily arguing against this believe, but it would mean that many of the stands that the political religious right wing make are inconsistent with this notion. If Mr. Robertson believes that divorcing a spouse with Alzheimer's is acceptable, and we cannot judge that view (though it sounds as if a great many people are disturbed by it on some "gut" level), then the stance that we can judge anyone making a difficult decision, including a woman who decides for an abortion, rather than not, cannot also be judged.

It is a slippery slope. And could well be an inconsistency in the application of moral stances to different difficult situations in life.

Hello, regarding "judging" , the word has a few different connotations and different people can think different things when they are referring to "judging".

Judging a person's value or worthiness for heaven or worthiness for happiness (for those who may not believe in heaven) , is not the same as judging the rightness or wrongness of a person's actions, in regards to harm that it brings to self or others or to property of others. I know of no one in my Catholic Christian associations who would ever "judge" anyone as being unworthy of heaven or happiness because of their wrong actions. However, we are all responsible to each other and actions that are harmful to self or others, must be "judged" as such and pointed out, in the hopes of securing a change in that behavior. We all fall short, throughout our lives and we all need each other's feedback. We don't exist in a vacuum of solitary confinement.

Hi Lucy. Hey, I seen you hammer a couple people out there for hammering Christians. And I seen where you said you were watching the show when Robertson said what he said. My question is, as a Christian do you feel God when you pray? Of course you do. So why do you need ANY human intervention AT ALL to be a Christian? Why on earth do you listen to ANY HUMANS AT ALL when you feel God directly? You have a direct hotline to God. Why would you go to church? All you get are humans who are no more in contact with God than YOU. Not even the preacher is. Do you need humans distorting and confusing the purity that you feel when you pray to the lord? This guy is a nut case, 99% of them are nut cases, and 100% of them are nobody that can vocalize Gods love in even the minutest amount because IT IS NOT VOCAL... is it? Is a deaf person going to be condemned to hell because he cant hear the nut cases? Is a blind person going to hell because they cant read the bible? Is dumb person going to hell because they cannot profess their love for God vocally? Every church I have ever been to or seen, if you do not read the bible, you're condemned. If you do not speak of God, you are condemned, and most of all, if you cannot hear the nut job trying to bias your interpretation of God... then you are condemned. The worst thing a God fearing person can do is go to a organized church of religion. Because then you take that pure love of Gods, and let humans distort it for you and all. You know Robertsons record, yet you actually watch the show? Is your love of God so weak that even in light of absolute self serving lies, you continue to taint this pure love with humans? It is above humans. And any human that thinks someone else can channel God thru them to you, is now your god. And that's what they want you to think, and that is how they want you to feel. So you need them there huh? Without them you feel that you cannot sustain a relationship with God? That is where all church going Christians get snowed. It is an orgy. Duhh. And orgy professing love for God, but none the less, an orgy is an orgy. Humans are fallible and will sooner or later lead you the wrong way. Gods love is pure and never falters. If you feel God in your heart, that is all you need. Do not trust humans EVER in this matter. Trust only your heart.

This only applies if you are male. If you are female you are expected to honor your vows and take care of the man.

I suspect the answer would have been very different if the question were asked by a woman.

p.s. Pat: why do you think "in sickness" was added to marriage vows?

Here we are: The real compassion of the tea party. "Dump those that are not good any more" -Ron Paul style- Why are they so obssesed in showing the word how "religious"and "nice" and all that BS, just to turn around and do what they condemn? What a bunch of hypocrites.

I would like to see Ron Paul getting alzhaimers or cancer, and see how his "freedom"policies will suddenly shift to more "humane" style. Just like Perry when he needed the benefits of research.

Robertson's statement that spouses who are married to patients who have Alzheimer's disease - should be able to leave the sick spouse and remarry is -the height of insensitivity.

Many diseases do cause patients to become physically helpless.

Unfortunately, medical science is not able to cure many diseases.

However, the bible teaches care, concern and love.

For Robertson to advocate that a spouse should have the right to leave a spouse that has Alzheimer's disease - is unloving and is not Christian.

One of the biggest problems that people who have serious and chronic illnesses face - is that because of their sickness - their spouse no longer desires them as mates - and eventually abandons them. This is particularly true of women who have serious sickness.

Robertson may view his position as being considerate of the spouse that is still healthy and alive - however, his viewpoint concerning this issue is very wrong - and his position cannot be biblically supported.

The christian right is neither.

Lucy:

Please look at the quotation marks in "christian", Tell me where I am slamming Christians? I state that HIS ideas are becoming less relevant... People are starting to think ans seeing that HIS ideas are just imbecilic. Now, If you consider that Pat represents ALL Christians, then YES I am slamming ALL Christians

littleoldlady3, what a thought provoking response. I hope I have correctly taken what you have said. Civilization itself rests upon the judging of the actions of others - that's how we determine what is and what is not acceptable behavior for folks to live together in harmony. Without judgement, there can only be anarchy.

Your comment about dispensing with judgement leading to moral inconsistancies is well-taken. I tend to be libertarian in my views on personal behavior which do not directly affect the well-being of others: What one does is one'w own business. In the case of behavior which does directly affect others, I tend to lean on the words of Jesus "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

This viewpoint could very well lead, as you say, to moral inconsistencies, and resolving such dilema's is what tests our humanity. This viewpoint leads me not to reject out-of-hand Pat's grounds for divorce, or as you mention, a woman's right to control her own body (a fetus not yet being a free standing human being).

I would not dare to declare this viewpoint to be defensible against all moral dilema's. I thank you for subtly reminding us of the need for humility in our efforts to reach higher levels of morality.

Thanks for your ideas.

Laura Brown, thank you for making that excellent distinction between judging persons and judging the actions of persons. After reading your comment, I believe I meant to say that I would not judge Rob'son's attitude on this issue, mainly because I had not faced it. I'm not sure if judging a person's attitude is the same as judging the person, but it does give me something to ponder.

Indeed, even if I had experienced Alzheimer's in my spouse, would that empower me to then cast judgement upon Pat's words? Head starting to spin.

I like being challanged by a rational argument. Thank you.

Nf630075. Your statement that"Christians suck and Pat too", shows that you have the intelligence of a grape. I don't know if you are a atheist or an agnostic or of another religion. It doesn't matter. You may not like or respect the christian religion, but you could be a bit more tolerant.

You said it... INTELLIGENT!

It is not only asinine and offensive (and so typical Pat), but I think he is flat out wrong, but not for religious reasons. My sister has a husband who is suffering from dementia. She tried to divorce him, and couldn't get it. The State doesn't want him. Of course, when she dies from being his sole caretaker with darn little time off, then the State gets him. Divorcing him would actually have been better for both of them, and she would have kept him but would have been able to get some respite care. Now, she gets nothing. He won't bathe. He won't help. He won't do anything but watch TV. In the meantime, she's ruined her health, and the docs are telling her she needs to get her kids to help -- but, they have families and do what they can. I'd help out more, but I'm a couple thousand miles away.

If Pat Robertson was a true Man of God, he'd get God to do something to keep folks from getting these horrid diseases.

Pat Robertson is the hero of the Republicans and the tea party. He has been this way forever. I hope that some people wake up to the message of the tea party radicals about life and death. It is looking more and more like middle eastern doctrine.

rainlady: If the tea party and the republicans win the election, people with disabilities will be left on their own. When are you people realize that? Do you think that all this talk of being "fiscal conservative"is going to be done by cutting benfits for the rich? They -the te party politicians- have SIGNED PLEDGES not to raise the taxes of rich.

Do you think that they are going to cut their salaries? Please! Understand that they are going to cut any help available to the sick and poor. They are telling that EVERY DAY on tv. Do you think that it is not going to happen to you? Do you think it is the "other lazy liberals"? Wake up and smell the coffee

Why does anyone listen to Pat Robertson in the first place? He's just a singular person, not gifted with anything more divine than the rest of us. Why is his opinion more valid than yours or mine? It's almost like listening to a movie actor's opinion of what someone's life should be. Who cares?!

We ALL really need to be thinking for ourselves, instead of listening to some talking head who wants to do our thinking for us. Pat Robertson is entitled to his opinion (no matter how stupid it is.) But why should I buy into that same opinion?

When one is married/partnered to another, it is a committed relationship. That commitment includes caring for the other, if the other falls ill. Abandonment and desertion should not be a solution to serve a selfish nature of the well partner. If it were, then why bother with any commitment at all? Just go willy nilly from person to person and form no bonds whatsoever, unless of course, it just serves your own personal narcissistic agenda.

This all being said and done, Alzheimer Disease is a terrible affliction that not only eventually kills the sufferer, but it also "kills" the caregiver. And currently, there is no cure! We can cure most diseases, even cancer. But Alzheimer Disease is one of the most debilitating and fatal diseases on the planet. I truly hope that more research finds a positive resolution for this horrible malady.

Another fine example of the false prophets the Bible warns about, zapper. It does amaze me that so many self-professed Christians are so ready to listen to people like this and Camping. So eager to be led astray.

Leg lifting 1000 pounds?

I didn't know he weighed that much. Time for a diet?

Jerry Falwell once went down a water-slide at his theme park in a three-piece-suit for the sake of... Oh Hell, who knows?

Speaking of Jerry Falwell, didn't he once have sex with his mother in an outhouse? ;)

Unfortunately I believe the opposite... We have too many!

I would agree ... there are far too many who are supporters of and believers in the right wing poliical religious "moral majority".

Are you kidding? There are a couple running for president. Check out Rick Santorum and Rick Perry.

Here here!

Excellent!

Right on Andy!!

Looks like God has spoken, let's hope Robertson listens.

Bravo Andy! A hardy laugh on that one.

Oh there's more:

http://www.borowitzreport.com/2011/09/16/in-rare-public-statement-god-tells-pat-robertson-to-shut-the-@!$%#-up/

Maybe Mrs. Robertson is afflicted with Alzheimers?

Heather: You might be on to something here.

I mean, I hope she is not...I was just speculating as to why a man of the cloth (snickers) would say something like what he said...

I agree, and they would be so confused!

Because they would remember that they were married, and had a husband, but not know what happened.

Mandy--no, not all Alzheimer's patients do remember that they are married and have a spouse. Some patients with Alzheimer's are not capable of remembering much of anything.

If the patient is comfortable and in a good custodial situation, I don't see any reason why the patient's spouse should not move on to a new relationship if that is what the spouse wants to do. Why should a person not be allowed, if s/he wants, to move on when the original spouse is cared for, in a custodial situation, and has completely forgotten him/her? It is not as though the original spouse will suffer--s/he probably will not even remember.

It is nice that there are people who care in a hands-on way for their spouses until the bitter end--but is it really necessary for people to martyr themselves that way? If a person chooses to do it, that's fine. But, if there is no suffering for the patient--I really don't get your point.

Seriously, "just because they have Alzheimer's"? "Just because"? Alzheimer's is not cancer, it is not diabetes, it is not heart disease . . . it robs people of their memory and of their ability to do anything for themselves. They forget their own children, their own siblings, their own spouses.

I would not condone abandoning a patient who has Alzheimer's; but if the patient is in such an advanced state that s/he is no longer anything more than a shell of what s/he once was, and that patient is being adequately cared for, I think it is compassionate to let the surviving spouse make his/her own decision about how to move on with his/her life.

Seriously--Pat Robertson says one reasonably sensible thing in his life, and everyone has to jump on the bandwagon. If this were a liberal female with a husband who had Alzheimer's (or if it were former Supreme Court Justice O'Connor), and she moved on and started a new relationship, while still caring about and ensuring the safety and well-being of her ill former spouse, would you say the same thing? I don't really think you would. I happen to agree with Caplan--what do you think of him? Is he also an example of someone who is unethical and inhumane?

Bean,

I am well acquainted with Alzheimers. I was just making a short comment based on the stage my grandmother is currently in.

She knows who I am, and who my Fiance is, but she does not remember that he is my fiance.

She knows who people are, but doesn't remember that they have died or gotten married or had a baby.

I'm sure it will progress to not being able to remember these things. But alzheimers is a progression.

There is a difference between an Alzheimers patient who doesn't even remember their spouse anymore, and one who is just starting to get forgetful. And the decision should be made while the person is still lucid enough to understand. But you should not abandon your spouse just because they are diagnosed. It could take years before they get to that state.

And I would say the same whether its a man or a woman, because I'm not sexist.

It is a heart-wrenching disease to have in your life. My Grandfather lived with this for years before he died (over 17 years ago) and later my Grandmother had the illness. I wonder what she would have wanted for her family if she knew that the torment that she lovingly went through would later continue in herself. My Aunts,Uncles and my Mom and Dad were there to witness both of them progress until they no longer could care for themselves and really were confused daily about who was caring for them and where they were living.

I just do not see how our society can be "okay" with letting them go and saying that it is acceptable as long as they are cared for. This is just an opinion from one man on t.v. and one ethicist. Of course, others will agree but would they "approve". Would my Aunts and Uncles have been allowed to walk away? I mean they weren't spouses to my Grandparents -they were the children who became care-givers.

If we allow separation from a spouse, do we allow it of adult children of those with serious diseases. Will it continue to parents of mentally ill? Years ago doctors thought it was more humane for parents to put their children in a home if they had a serious mental defect. We look at that and are horrified, thankfully. I am so glad this is not acceptable now.

My family was also thankful for amazing organizations like the Alzheimer's Foundation and the compassion they gave.

created --

True story about the Alzheimer's Foundation. They do wonderful work. My own mother cared for my dad as long as possible, with my family's help -- we moved from the city to a rural community to be close by, to provide shopping, breaks, transportation to doctors, etc -- when he could no longer stay home, she found a nursing home in the city and left her home of 25 years to move into senior housing and be a bus ride away from him. She spent four or five days a week by his side -- volunteering as well with other patients when he slept -- even when he no longer recognized her. And this was not a Hollywood romance -- his alcoholism earlier in life had made her life very difficult. But she was born in an era (1915) when a person took responsibility seriously. She would never have considered any other path than remaining by his side as much as possible. Her philosophy was always "Just do what you have to do." After he died, she was able to continue, living her life for herself and her grandchildren, with peace and joy, for another six years.

I, too, wonder what Robertson would have said if the questioner had been a woman. Somehow, I don't think his answer would have been the same.

I doubt it.

Of course it wouldn't!! Don't you know? According to the way Pat Robertson's type of "Christian" interprets the Bible, women are the PROPERTY of men and have NO RIGHT to do ANYTHING other than what their owner/master (that would be their husband) tells them they can! Men can act with impunity--and it's always the woman's fault. (I'd call him a jackass, but I don't want to insult a magnificent animal in that way.)

How about erectile dysfunction?

Kathy, I agree with you 100%. His remark was horrible. I was watching the show the night he said this. I couldn't believe it. I don't really care for him, but I watch the show for the news and the guests. He has said other things in the past that he shouldn't have said. But who hasn't. He really needs to think about what he says before he says it. As we all should.

Take care Kathy and I hope your marriage is blessed.

Dear Lucy - if you get your news from the 700 club you are truly an idiot.

Now now....don't be too hard on her. Maybe she doesn't get the Fox News channel and the 700 Club is the only place she can get her daily dose of brainwashing.

Kathy, Absolutely right about marriage vows also being a covenant with God. This is true regardless of which religion you belong to. Every religious marriage takes place in the presence of God, and if people really understood the significance of that, they might take marriage more seriously and make sure that they did their utmost to fulfill their promises to each other, their family, and to Him (or Her or Them, depending upon your religion).

Sounds like you're doing a good job of eating it up. Are you allowed out unsupervised too? Conservative compassion?? I guess that means there is liberal compassion as well? Is liberal compassion taxing the rich? Just wondering....

Why, yes, Lucy, liberal compassion includes taking that whole $ 200K off the top of someone earning 31 million dollars in a year -- tell me truly, this would make an enormous difference in their lifestyle? -- and using the money to fund programs to help the poor and old and ill. This is compassion in action as Jesus would have wanted. Jesus had no problem with paying taxes, and certainly gave us explicit directions about whom we should be helping...who are NOT the wealthy. Remember? The camel through a needle's eye? So be as snarky as you want to be...you're wrong. We get the society we pay for, which is why our own is falling apart. What on earth is wrong with taxing the rich AT LEAST as much as we tax the middle class? Just wondering....

There is nothing wrong with modern Christianity at all. People are people. It does not matter what group they align themselves with. Hypocrites comes in all forms of life.

I wouldn't say that Pat Robertson is a representative of Christianity at all.

I think the difference between when someone is diagnosed, and when they reach that very advanced state are completely different.

The way he made it sound is why wait? they are going to not recognize you in a few years anyway.

As someone who also has a parent with Alzheimer's I am not offended by Pat Robertson's comment. My father is in a nursing home. He knows noone now , not even my mother. He isn't in any pain and is well taken care of. My compassion right now is for my mother. She took care of him for as long as she could. She has suffered both physically and emotionally. I would have no problem with her finding a loving companion to share the rest of her life with. I personally think she deserves it. She won't do that, but I certainly wouldn't stand in her way if she did.

This situation has 2 "paths of compassion", not just for the Alzheimer's patient.

Here is an article from Slate with actual excerpt of Pat Robertson's comments. Once I read it, his remarks made sense. The MSN article took his words out of context (which is the norm with public figures these days) and ran with it. I jumped to conclusions which is not like me. I usually research something before I comment on it. Why I didn't this time, I don't know.

http://www.slate.com/id/2303989/?GT1=38001

For the record, my parents divorced when I was 17. My mother and father both remarried other people and are divorced from them. My mother had brain surgery and is in and out of a catatonic state. She is in Texas. My father has Alzheimer's as well as Parkinson's Disease and is bed ridden. He lives in California. He hasn't lost his cognitive abilities yet but he get things mixed up and gets very nostalgic at times. I feel for those that are married and have to go through this. It is a tough thing.

I whole heartedly agree. MSN "sucks" much of the time. I find myself having to look up other sources as you did. Yes, it is horrible to watch the person who is the caregiver and the victim of these terrible illnesses.