yeah when i walk into walls and faint and get lost in my town that i grw up in and hurt so bad I cant sleep for days at a time. what I will do is talk about it. no that is th last thing i would want to do. What I want is relief from the pain and some sleep and a normal meal. sometims I dont eat for days, why???? it too much work I am exhusted. just give me a Frosty or someting cold or easy to swollow.

Pine, a "Frosty" may be what is causing your problem.

I think fibromyalgia is really vascular disease brought on by poor diet. If you are in pain, try eliminating sugar and carbohydrates from your diet for 6 months. See how much your pain level will drop. Take some ibuprofen as an anti-inflammitory. Don't eat, drink or smoke anything that might cause inflammation. This could mean something as simple as laying off the Vitamin C or foods with vinegar in them. If you need recipies, Ellie Krieger has an excellent show (Healthy Appetite with Ellie Krieger) . She is a registered dietician. Her recipies are pretty simple and nutritionally balanced. She is not completely sugar or carb free but she shows you how to make delicious food with lower levels of carbs and sugars.

I have to agree talk therapy is pretty stupid, though. It reminds me of my OB/GYN who tried to get me to go to their "Pelvic Pain Center" where you pay $400 out of your pocket to be masturbated (biofeedback) by a pervert. What I really needed was a hysterectomy which I had to throw a fit to get. Then it was discovered I had adenomyosis and the "biofeedback" would have been useless. I also could have bled to death from the endometrial biopsy the greedy doctor insisted on.

Also stay away from caffiene.

if you are a ' real" doctor what kind you didnt state or where you graduate from and what line in class did you grad? okay let me tell you this if you dont belive that fibro is "real disease" why? I can tell you that I cannot move in the mornings and I feel like I got the worst flu in the world and my muscles are aching so bad and it feels like poision is in all my swollen glands all over my body. I get stuck and cant mo somtimes and so many other troubles that effct me that are a pattrn not just a "just in your mind thing" I want so bd to stop urting lik I do , If you told m that if I would eat a crate of carrots and thn fl bettr I would say doc point me to those carrots. I am so sick of hurting , I cant n slp du to the horrndous pain. If you would just know what it fls like for just an houe then you would not make the statement that fibro is a mad up diseas. It maks me want to just be mad and cry and do my bst to explain to you how this fraking thing hurts and impacts every aspects of my life. Please consider reading more on this fibro and see. I just imagine you telling patients or looking at them like thy ar crazy or lying. it so hrd to evven to xplain in the first palc and so scary to see an doctor then to have a doctor not beleive fibro is a disese/ that happend to me with my PPC had to gt another onem that undrstood what I was daling with.

I'm grateful you're not my doctor. Thankfully, my FM physician referred me to a rheumatologist who diagnosed and began my physical and prescription therapy within an hour. They literally saved my life. Prior to diagnosis, I spent full days, sometimes several in a row, stuck in the bed. Really stuck, muscle spasms were so severe I couldn't roll over or sit myself up. My husband had so much patience (and still does) during the pre-diagnosis period. And exhausted doesn't begin to describe how a person with fibro feels - even with treatment my energy level seems that it will never return to normal.

I graduated from Columbia in the top 10% of the class and am fed up with the whiny people with this disease. I have been in Iraq and Afghanistan both taking care of the wounded who are more seriously in pain than you whiny people. Get real people and consider what real pain is!

GulfVet, you are not really talking about the same kind of medicine and you know it.

Yes, Fibromyalgia patients need better diets.

Yes, our American soldiers are suffering more but there are many forums for them. This one is for Fibromyalgia.

I think there are many "diseases/conditions/syndromes that mirror other conditions. I think "Fibromyalgia is really a type of vascular disease.

I want to express that I DO think Fibromyalgia is real. My sister claimed to have it and complained bitterly about the pain. She cured it with a bullet to the head. Does that sound made up to you? Granted, she was not kind to herself while she was alive and she suffered the consequences. However, I really think that doctors need to put two and two together and call it vascular disease. These types of conditions are rarely diagnosed correctly or early enough. You can have diabetic vascular conditions for years before actually being diagnosed with diabetes.

I think so many people are complaining about Fibromyalgia because of the quality of the food available to the American public and lack of education on how to make balanced meals. We also need to do more to control our population so our food supply does not have to be manipulated in order for everyone to have decent food. People are relying too much on cheap carbs and drinking way too much soda pop. That is the gist of the problem.

GulfVet, I also have to say that I hope Columbia cranks out doctors with better attitudes than yours. Bet you were born with a silver spoon lodged in your alimentary canal. Silver spoon docs are never really in touch with their patients and just sit around in righteous indignation instead of giving comprehensive, constructive information to their patients. If you are sick of giving the talk, put it on a disk or on your website.

Many patients are never diagnosed correctly and never improve due to their doctors' prejudicial attitudes.

Why did you become a doctor? You obviously hate people (except soldiers)/

I borrowed money to get through college and medical school no silver spoon here. I don't hate people as you infer. I do think a lot of people are whiny for secondary gain. I feel that your name calling is inappropriate and shows that you lack facts so you have to resort to name calling. Shame on you!

Shame on you for your lack of compassion.

There are too many people with this condition for it to be imaginary. You offer no constructive information whatsoever.

If soldiers are the only people you have compassion for, go back to the military. Other than that, I think you need to take a good hard look at yourself and the reasons you became a doctor. I've known plenty of doctors and heard their hateful spoiled brat rhetoric. If they spent half as much energy doing their jobs as they do hating, the world would be a better place. If you want to learn how to treat people, I suggest watching Dr.Oz's manner. You can tell that the man obviously loves people (and they love him). He never talks down to them. He never comes off as better than them. You could learn a thing or two from him.

And, if you really did not come from money (which I doubt) why the snobby attitude? Does that get you into The Club?

I guess Dr Oz wasn't a good enough doctor to succeed in the real world and had to go on TV. Don't forget he is the one who created the cotroversy about arsenic in apple juice and we all know where that went. I love my patients and they love me so don't call me names or impugn my integrity.

Dr. Oz is a practicing heart surgeon.

You still haven't said why you haven't said anything constructive.

I have said many constructive helpful things on this site today and I'm not even a doctor. I have helped more people than you have today.

So?????

I also doubt Dr.Oz criticizes his patients for the plaque built up in their arteries. At least Dr.Oz is concerned (unlike you).

Obviously he spends more time on TV than in the OR. What concrete suggestions have you made? There is a drug which is touted for "fibromyalgia" it is called Savella. There are you happy I have made a suggestion.

Wow! What a humanitarian! But then again, you think fibromyalgia is a myth.

My sister mythically checked herself into a hotel room and blew her brains out because of a mythical condition...

Hmmmm

All your contentions are based on anecdotal information. There has been no significant study which really proves fibromyalgia as a separate distinct entity. If you have a peer reviewed study of at least 2500 patients I will defer to your judgement in this matter, otherwise, sorry I am not convinced.

If you had read my posts above, you would know that I think FB is really vascular disease. It makes alot of sense. It doesn't present the same way in every patient and that is why they can't diagnose it. Too many silver spoons to have any common sense.

My argument makes perfect sense. Your advice for throwing pharmeceuticals at it usually just makes it worse. Plus the meds usually can give you suicidal tendencies if you didn't already have them from the pain.

Later, hater.

You have all these theories but no scientific information to back them up. Please give me the references so I may be on common ground with your discussion. My mind is not closed but I need definite information rather than anecdotes.

Doctors don't give any scientific reasons for Fibromyalgia and they have all the money and resources in the world. Why do I have to provide scientific information? I have a theroy and it makes alot of sense. It makes alot more sense than anything any silver spoon doctor has come up with.

Things take a long time to change in the medical world. However, you are not a civilian doctor, so how would you know?

If you don't like my theroy, why not find your own? Call it inflammation, phlebitis, vascular disease, PAD, whatever. But, do not tell people who are in pain that they are imagining it. Yes, maybe some of them deserve their condition. Maybe not but that is NOT FOR YOU TO JUDGE. Just because you are a doctor doesn't make you better than anyone else. I'm sure you do things to harm yourself too. Stop being so high and mighty and do something constructive. Or just tell your patients to watch Dr.Oz and/or go on MayoClinic's site and diagnose themselves.

Actually I am a civilian who has done several tours as part of the Army Reserve. Actually I do not tell people that they don't hurt, I just don't believe in putting all the problems in a certain disease entity that hasn't been proven. That's all I am asking for is for scientific proof of the entity.

You don't want your integrity impugned? What right do you have to ask that when your so busy impugning the integrity of some of us other posters?

You want scientific proof of nerve pain?

You went to Columbia. I'm sure taxpayers paid for your education. Why don't you know?

You are talking about a disease that has not been proven but people are killing themselves over the pain. In saying that you think "putting all the problems in a certain disease is wrong" you are basically agreeing with MY view that this is probably not a new disease "fibromyalgia" but regular garden variety vascular disease and it is just manifesting itself differently in different patients, making it hard to diagnose. Go up to "Pine's" entry above and notice how he/she only wants to eat a "frosty". That should be a dead giveaway as to why these patients are in pain to begin with. Patients need to be taught that sugar is the equivalent of battery acid. A better choice for "Pine" would be a banana or some yogurt. And yet he/she is reaching for empty carbs/sugar.

Dr. Oz spends alot of time on these subjects and very little on condescension. I suggest you at least try to appreciate what he is trying to do. He presents many viewpoints, not just his own, which to me lends credibility. I could do without all the screaming women on his show but his motives are good ones.

And Army Reserve is not civillian medicine. Deal with HMO's for a few years and then get back to me.

Sorry Pine! understand completely what you feel. On fentanyl patch too and it still doesn't cut all the pain. Sometimes you take two steps forward and almost feel human and wham!! you get knocked 5 steps back. I know exactly how it ages you and changes your appearance so much that you don't even want to go out in public. The pain changes your life and you lose almost everything about who you used to be. You do mourn the loss of the life that you once had so you cling to those times when you feel almost human for dear life. Sometimes it seems almost too much to handle and the people around us often don't understand which can make it even worse.You can blame yourself for being a burden where once you were a bread winner. It can be hard to believe when your loved ones say it doesn't matter. My husband says he married me for better or worse and isn't going to leave cause right now I feel like the worst. you just gotta do your best and hang in.

There are pretty good books out there and I have a couple, that you can get more pain mangement techniques out of as opposed to wasting $$$ on therapists, or talking to a stranger on the phone. There are free hotlines you can call to help calm you down when the intense pain from fibro and other pain issues put you in or near crisis mode. When I was 1st diagnosed with crps they wanted me to do 4 visits with their therapists. $356.00 for the first visit where he went over the 4 page questionaire I filled out and sent prior to the visit which he was supposed to review for the appointment. He didn't and I got charged an additional $222.00 for his review of the paperwork. I saw him twice. All he did was reccomend a book I had already, (referred to me by my pcp for free) and give a few handouts from the book.

I really think there are too many people obsessed with having a disease and they whine too much about their status. For your information Linda- I do know what pain is. I have bone on bone arthritis in my knees for the past 45 years and multiple herniated lumbar discs, but put in 12+ hour days 6-7 days a week, and don't take a lot of pain medicine because it wouldn't be fair to my patients to have my judgement clouded and not give them my best efforts. I see no reason to resort to name calling, the only reason you have done that is because you can't back up your contentions with facts.

GulfVet49 - Your arthritis and lumbar disc pain is unimaginable to me, but I do believe you when you say it's real. There are so many days I wish this fibro would show up on an x-ray or cause a rash or make my hair fall out so people could "see" my syndrome. Sadly, unless someone is confined to a wheelchair, many in our society do not accept their disabilities.

Obviuosly yyou know nothing about people suffering from fibro and many other chronic pain conditions. people with these conditions are definetly encouraged by doctors to try many things other than medication. Most insurances will pay a portion of the cost of therapy. A few will pay for chiropractic and accupuncture treatments. Most don't pay for massage therapy. Many refer their patients to a host of materials in book form and from the internet. Kaiser permanente has all kinds of tapes you can purchase or some you can download from the website.relaxtion, visual imagery, exvercise and so on.. I would guess that other health care organizations offer similar things. You do what you can afford and most of us with chronic pain can't afford much. You don't have to have a terminal illness to feel incredible pain and what we suffer is no less real than te individuals with cancer and other terminal poblems. The difference ..we don't know the outcome will be death and the end of pain. Our pain goes on and on with no expiration date. If we "whine" nobody is making you listen or read the posts. There is no "IF" about fibro causing severe pain. MOst of us suffering chronic pain do everything within our budget and physical and mental limitaions to get relief. I think you can guess how much I care about how "fairly skeptical" you are about anything.

Obvoiusly you didn't read my own pain history, I do know what pain 24 hours a day is all about, I was trying to make the point that there are people like the troops who have significant pain from injuries,sorry but I am not convinced that fibromyalgia is a distinct disease entity.

I have seen your diagnosis I also have most of them myself, I think comes from a lot of ware and tare through the years. I have read you suggested Savella, which is not an option for me w/ two blood disorders and I take 325 mg. ASA to prevent clots, but you state you have these conditions, what would you suggest for the pain?? What do you do to help your pain?? Listen we are all here in hopes that someone has any suggestions that we have not tried yet. I personally have so may disorders I am not blaming all my pain on Fibro. I blame RA & Lupus. Which ever one it is, it all comes down to what will help the pain. Quality of life is very difficult/

gulfvet49-you should listen to mike and the other poster. requires pulling your head out of wherever you got it stuck!

Whatajoke, I get over 50 hours of continuing education per year. You cite all this information but none of it is anything but anectdotal information. All I am asking is that someone cite peer reviewed case studies involving more than 2500 patients, if you have even a modicum of understanding of statistics you would realize that just because someone says something, this does not constitute scientific proof. It is a frequent ruse to cite such things as" my friend knows somebody with the disease or has taken this medication or used this therapy" Than's all well and good but doesn't prove anything except the gullibility of the populace. I guess you are like the rest of the critics if you don't have facts to back up your contentions you have to resort to name calling and inuendo SHAME SHAME SHAME

Only 50 hours Mr. Uneducated Dr.? Hmm. Ok, whatever you say. Why don't YOU do the study. I'd be happy to volunteer.

Before AIDS was diagnosed, no one knew what caused it either. Does that mean it didn't exist? MORE research needs to be done, I couldn't agree with you more. Just don't try to tell me that I don't have a disease when you dont live in my body. Have you not read about pressure points? What other disease causes that? Is it in your potpourri of gullible Drs. and patients diagnosis book?

Don't accuse me of not having a disease that there isn't enough info on and I won't accuse you of being a phony. OLD Drs. are the ones who don't believe or treat fibro. It's time to retire buddy.

That 50 hours is on top of approximately 120 hours of work per week. All I am asking for is scientific proof of the disease, because I have an inquiring mind. I wish I could retire but can't afford to.

Then how do you find the time to come on here and comment and I guess try to brag about your 120 hour work week. What a waste of the precious 48hrs left in your week. Most people would rather eat, drink, sleep and have sex in that short amount of free time. (if anybody believes you)

Everybody is taking my whole premise wrong all I asked for is scientific proof of the disease state, which nobody can do. I sympathize with you who are in pain, but sometimes some of you will admit it, you do whine!

Yeah,?? just like your whining in this forum about people in pain whining. Which is freaking worse?? It's a no-brainer, you!

No we can't give you scientific proof of the disease for we are not doctors or scientists we are the patients.

Most are trusting souls and leave the diagnosis to the educated in the medical field. I have tried to research fibromyalgia but the only thing I have access to is the medical field sites.

Personally, I don't think it should be my place to have scientific proof when I pay $750 for my doctor appointments. I assume that this would be included in their fee and educational process - to learn more about pharmaceuticals, new diseases and treatments...and no whining intended.

What doctor encourages patients to come and tell them exactly what is wrong with them and treatment they are going to get? They examine and diagnose for themselves.

OMG what is your rational approach? I'm quite sure that for most of us with chronic pain we have had lots of appointments with various providers on dealing with our pain issues in a rational manner. Pleaset ell us something we haven't all ready heard, can read in a book, or find online.

Why the hostility? Fibromyalgia is not the only condition that causes pain. Have you ever researched CBT to see if it could help you? CBT is one rational approach. And don't say, I've tried everything because you obviously have not if you are still in pain. But really nothing works unless you keep an open mind, which seems unlikely. I don't care to argue this, it's just an opinion. And there are few people on earth as stubborn as those in constant pain.

Honestly?? Did you read any of my posts and actually comprehend what you took in?? CBT is no different from going in to see a therapist . You can only talk so much to understand it might temporarily help your frame of mind, right up to the time you have a HUGE flare up or some other set back. REading and reviewing techniques in books and cd's we aleady have is much more useless and you pay for it one time then can access it whenever for free. There are hotlines you can call and on-line forums that go into almost every cause of chronic pain you can imagine that are there for fee. I will not waste one more minute responding to either Scorpio or Gulfvet 49. They are ignorant on this subject, way to judgemental and refuse to step into others shoes fo a minute cause they don't have an open mind they just want to be right.

Just one more thing for Scorpio-you never answered my question in post #16.2. And you and gulfvet49 have been silent about my questions to him in post #17.

It's probably a good thing my doctor doesn't normally prescribe pain meds. People on real pain meds have a hard time going without it, and I think it actually lowers their pain tolerance. I know it affects how people react to anesthesia or acute pain, as my husband is a surgical recovery nurse. Luckily, right now I only take Cymbalta and some Naprosyn for plantar fascitis. Don't know how he'll deal with it if my pain gets a lot worse.

lem 6 thank-you for expressing your opinion and acknowledging it for just that, your opinion. Gulfvet49 should take notice. Your the type of poster that I could read what you have to say, discuss it with you, and enjoy the time spent doing so. Gulfvet just thinks he knows it all and doesn't care what anybody else thinks.