So where is this Medicaid money going? You're right -- to the drug companies. (Hard to understand why the lawmakers who are beholden to Big Pharma want to cut Medicare and Medicaid...)

Poverty is behind pretty much all the problems these children have. But we do not want to deal with poverty.

We will blame poor people for our budget problems, we will excoriate them for living as they do, we will take their children away from them and drug them -- but we will not do anything to address poverty and its causes, to provide them with the wherewithal to rise above their poverty, or to provide their children with the support and education they need.

Yes, kids in foster care often have problems. Yes, they are often easier to manage when they are drugged. But they are not going to get better if all they get are antipsychotic drugs. The only people who will benefit from that are the people who make the drugs.

(Wow. I just reread what I wrote there. That's true for a lot of returning veterans, as well. They need a lot more than drugs to help them past their trauma and into the rest of their lives.)

This is beyond disturbing to me. I have made many comments about the psychiatric drugs I was put on as a minor with ZERO say in my medical care, and now such young children, who can easily be forced to comply with what their foster parents want, are being drugged!

So what happens when the child gets one of the more severe side effects? And yes, you can tell me, that "but the chances are 1 out of 100, or 2 out of 1000", but I don't really care. These young children are in the FIRST stages, the most early stages of brain and body development, and yet, their foster "parents" are giving them EXTREMELY powerful psychotropic drugs! And I hate to say this, but I'm not too surprised by this....or anything involving psychiatry and minorschildren who have no voice nowadays.

I was on Risperdal. Here's a list of side effects that I looked up:

Risperdal side effects

Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat. Stop taking Risperdal and call your doctor at once if you have a serious side effect such as:

• fever, stiff muscles, confusion, sweating, fast or uneven heartbeats;

• restless muscle movements in your eyes, tongue, jaw, or neck;

• drooling, tremor (uncontrolled shaking);

• seizure (convulsions);

• fever, chills, body aches, flu symptoms;

• nosebleeds;

• white patches or sores inside your mouth or on your lips;

• trouble swallowing;

• feeling like you might pass out; or

• penis erection that is painful or lasts 4 hours or longer.

Less serious Risperdal side effects may include:

• feeling hot or cold;

• headache, dizziness;

• drowsiness, tired feeling;

• dry mouth, increased appetite;

• feeling restless or anxious;

• sleep problems (insomnia);

• nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, constipation;

• cough, sore throat, runny or stuffy nose; or

• mild skin rash.

Very True. And, a drugged, sleepy, doped up child makes the foster parents job easier...and to my understanding, a medical diagnosis requiring treatment such as with these medicated kids, makes the foster parents eligible to receive additional money in the government support checks they receive for fostering these kids. We know from sad cases such as a little murdered foster/adopted boy named Ricky in Michigan (and other documented cases), that sometimes a psychiatrist will prescribe these drugs to a foster child solely on the misleading information that a deceptive foster parent gives. This should never be...no child should ever receive these meds...at least not without first showing some substantiated need for this medication through extensive monitoring over several visits with a child psychologist as well as consulting with school teachers, relatives, etc. to verify child's behavior. Very sad...I hope we can change this malpractice quickly and move to protect these kids.

I don't see why we need the foster care system at all... It seems like these children would benefit more from a well run boarding school (similar to Boys' Town). Surely if all the money paid to foster parents were pooled, it would add up to a much nicer standard of living, with trained psychologists and teachers on hand to help deal with their problems. It would also make it easier for child services to track foster children and make sure that they are being treated well. And, it would save a lot of money in the long run, since we would produce more productive citizens and less criminals.

I have worked as a Mental Health Tech in a facility for children and adolescents, I have seen first hand what these medications do to the kids. The children line up twice a day to get their meds. they refer to these meds as "skittles" and the effect on them is temendous. They really need more love and affection rather than another pill. Programs and therapy done correctly is the answer. Parents do not have to be rich to care for their kids, they need to be educated. Once a kid reaches their pre-teen years the system starts to write them off as hopeless! Then the medications are really poured on. I have seen kids gain as much as a 100 pounds in less than a year and nothing is done to solve the problem. I rarely ever saw a young person make it out of the facility and succeed in the real world. It broke my heart! We need to stop allowing the funding of these treatments and make someone accountable for the impact they have on the children.

KJR, I looked that story up...was the boy's full name Ricky Holland? And this happened in Detroit? Want to make sure I've got the right google result.

Pam, you are absolutely right. My parents came to their senses though, and stopped the meds cold turkey for me when my health started to go to hell.

For all the posters so concerned about those terrible fosters parents.....Call your local Department of Social Services. Sign up for either the MAPP or Pride class. Become a foster parent and fix the problem. If you have all the answers, put them into practice.

Of course children in care have higher rates of medication. These same children, left in the home families, would still have the same illnesses, they just wouldn't be treated. Unlike other children, children in care have social workers, mandated psych evaluations, mandated medical exams, required visits with psychologists, psychiatrists.....and given that the goal of any CPS/DSS involvement is maintaining the family children are now only removed in the worse cases. That means these are kids that have suffered physical abuse, sexual abuse, extreme neglect....as noted on msnbc.com today, those experiences have real consequences on the brain.

You'll notice the article doesn't address several very real points---what percentage of children in care have mental health issues? A higher than the general population of children in care have a disability-why? Because children with a disabilty are 4x more likely to experience neglect and abuse than non disabled peers. Similarly, given that many mental health issues have a genetic component, and that parents of children in care quite often also have mental health issues, wouldn't we expect there to be a higher rate amoung children in care?

I'm not saying all children in care have mental health issues. They don't. But instead of blaming foster parents, why not consider the real causes and reasons.....or at a minimum before you post, sign up and be a foster parent. There is always a need and frankly pat little answers like "they just need love" make the poster feel all warm and fuzzy, but don't really help kids.

Hit the nail on the head.

Well, since you are getting closer to the root cause, how about bash the biological parent or foster parent who doesn't deal with a behavioral problem and instead seeks the shelter of mother's little helper.

Reference,

We live in a society that is more comfortable doping itself than learning anything like forinstance coping skills.

Actually, Eddie, drivers for prescribing meds include:

1) Increased funding for foster agencies who handle children who need medication.

2) Increased funding for foster families who handle children who need medication.

3) Big Pharma reps who sell off label/below approved age use of medications to doctors (who also get paid for their "maintenance visits" to see the effects on the kids).

Mostly having to do with money, not some fantasy Liberal world that you dream up.

Actually, some of the worst violators of human rights right now are our police (see how OWS has been handled for non-violent protests) and government (Guantanamo, anyone).

WTH, you think "social services liberals" are the reason this happens? Give it a rest. Plenty of conservatives contribute to this system. You might have a real argument if you would quit blaming this on politics.

@Fraud Guy, and IndyMary, I think Eddie is talking about the EXTREME liberals, the ones who make everyone else's business into their problem....you know, busybodies. Nothing wrong with being a liberal.

Granted, there are unfit and unstable parents out there, no doubt about it, but you cannot underestimate every parent who doesn't conform to the "American Dream" way of raising children. Anyone can be "investigated", or harassed by SS or CPS nowadays, and the people who report them can be anonymous!

I've heard of spiteful neighbors reporting parents.

I've heard of teachers who completely misunderstood what a young child was trying to communicate, reporting parents, without even contacting the parents to find out why the child said this/that....and a majority of the time, if the parent doesn't give a "satisfactory" explanation, the teacher becomes suspicious that the parents are "deceitful" or "liars" or "secretive", and then overstep their bounds. That's REALLY fun.

Hell, sometimes your own FAMILY will put you through that kind of hell because of their own issues with either one or both parents.

It's run amok, the CPS and foster care, and Psychiatric system, ESPECIALLY when it comes to children....they aren't being given the chance to be kids, because their adhdimaginations are being suppressed with chemicals. Heart wrenching.

The system is so corrupt......

Thank you, SSS. These things need to be said. I, too, as a professional saw these scams upon the system. The worse thing was not just that they were bilking the system and taxpayers, as that is but a monetary thing. The worst was that they would do it at the costs of their childrens emotional and physical health--their futures and being labelled as needing special ed and mentally disabled. Unfortunately, it was not just foster paernts. Biological parents on welfare did the same things -- they wanted more and to get it coached their kids on how to respond to the interviews. Several kids told me about this. I tried to stop it, but got no where and fled to another profession because I was so heartbroken and disillusioned as to what adults do to children, foster and their own, for no reason other than to obtain more government money.

Yup. Most people who are foster parents are in it for the money more than they are people who want to give kids a safe place. South Park just did a episode about foster homes that was a bit over the top but at the heart there is some truth to it.

Indeed, I've known a number of people who have gone through foster care and none of them had a good story to tell about loving foster homes. Instead, it's likely that half the time they were abused, terrorized, and neglected.

@Some Lame Name Here, what was the episode title? I love South Park :D

Good for You...Best of Luck. We need people like you who have survived the system and have personal knowledge of the problems within it, to help us fix it. Thank you.

For the most part, we should never be drugging our children with strong psychotropic drugs. I know of a child who was put on psychotropic drugs rather than anyone listening to the problems she was facing in her life that were causing her to "run away" (abuse and neglect, and being forced into a marriage at fourteen years old). I know of other children who have had anxiety symptoms and rather than look at WHY they are suffering from anxiety, the medical choice was to medicate them. I know an eleven year old boy who was put on medication for ADHD, along with diagnosis and medication for several other children in the home. The fact that he was up until two or three o'clock in the morning on school days, and was not given breakfast, and lived in a very dysfunctional home without good parental care was the problem, but medicating him was the solution which brought a disability diagnosis and further SS aide to his single parent/guardian, who was not even a U.S. citizen. We live in a world where too many people want to pop a pill for everything...put a band aide on it without ever healing the source of the wound. It is messed up that we would be medicating so many children with strong psychotropic drugs at such young ages.

My experience as a foster parent was that prescribing meds to kids got the foster agency higher state subsidies, because they are now "special needs".

Plus some kids have been through horrors both in and out of foster care.

Risperdal does cause weight gain; it's an appetite stimulant, is extremely sedating and wreaks havoc with hormones as well (induces lactation and can cause gynecomastia in boys). It's definitely a drug to be taken seriously, especially in a young population that has little continuity of care and hasn't developed the maturity or the self-awareness to associate the changes in their mind and body with the medications they're taking, so the side effects go under-reported or aren't taken seriously by the prescribing physician (or psychiatric NP).

I'm sure there are cases where Risperdal and the other antipsychotics that are so popular now are helpful. I'm not anti-meds, but these are heavy hitting drugs and in my opinion should only be used as a last resort.

I've known a number of people who have done foster care and have a family member who is a foster care social worker. All foster care parents I have known do it because they care. Some of the kids they get are really messed up by the time they are removed from abusive situations. They often get children who are brain damaged by parents using alcohol/drugs before birth, children whose parents have untreated mental illnesses (some hereditary), as well as mental/emotional/physical damage done by abuse.

One couple I know got a foster daughter off her meds when they got her and she did great in a loving stable environment until her teens. Then she turned bipolar, like her birth mother and had to be removed to a more therapeutic environment. Another family has a child that actually injures himself if unmedicated.

I am sure their is overuse of various psychiatric drugs, but we also have to realize, there will be more children in the foster care population who will have problems that actually require medical intervention.

Yes, there are children who land in foster care for reasons other than abuse, such as various family tragedies. Ironically, most of these kids don't stay in the system, because foster care today does whatever they can to find appropriate relatives to place children with whenever that is possible. Even going so far as to license grandma as a foster parent, so she can afford to care for her own grandkids. (Most relative placements are not licensed and paid.)

Oh really?

aacap org/cs/root/facts_for_families/schizophrenia_in_children

drushalli, you are wrong. My daughter was diagnosed with bi-polar (which runs in the family) at the age of 13. Thank God it was. She had become suicidal. Those "horrible" drugs saved her life. But we "got right on it". We didn't watch 60 Minutes or 20/20 shows that sensationalize a few unfortunate experiences and generalize it to the rest of the population. We knew there were problems starting in second grade. If I have bronchitis I'm going to get medicine, if I break a leg I'm going to get it reset, if I have a chemical imbalance in my brain and meds can help, by golly I'm taking meds for that.

Yes, they do.

You bet they do, because a lot of the time, the school nurse can administer the medication with parental consent.

I know it is not completely related to foster care, but look up the TeenScreen scandal.

As a public school teacher, we certainly do not try and diagnose a child in order to get aide. That is insane. Teachers don't even talk about this, and many don't even know about the money. In fact, getting a child labeled is harder and harder to do. More and more of these kids are staying in the regular classroom, whether it's the appropriate placement or not. I teach at risk kids and my job is to try and keep them from being labeled and placed in special ed. classes. Do you really think teachers relish filling out mounds of paper work, documenting every breath these kids take in order to make a case for a label, and going to parent, school, district parent, intake, CSE meetings? Get real!

Just because you are not a corrupt teacher, doesn't mean that all teachers won't push to have a child drugged into quiet submission, Robyn.

And if you didn't know about the money, maybe you should educate yourself.

And not its not the teachers who, and I quote "relish filling out mounds of paper work, documenting every breath these kids take in order to make a case for a label, and going to parent, school, district parent, intake, CSE meetings"

It is the "researchers" who are pushing for more drugs in the pipelines, and more labels on kids, who are doing that! You teachers are just the obedient stooges who hand out these questionarres, which are usually "mandatory", and you make that clear as well. I hate to say it, but maybe if more teachers went against this BS, maybe the kids would stop being labeled.

Don't make it into an issue about JUST yourself, when overdiagnosing and mass drugging of young school children, and teenagers is a NATIONAL problem that has gotten way out of hand.

I often wonder how many school teachers or psychologists or school social workers have KNOWINGLY overstepped their bounds. I wonder how many rules or, maybe even laws, were broken, when they surveyed these kids, or "observed" them in class. Nowadays, a psychologist will just listen to everything an overworked teacher says, and will sit in on that child's class, without even BOTHERING to contact the parent first.

You'd think that parents would be quick to stand up for their children and their parental rights when they get that letter or that phone call.....about how they may have ADHD(being bored, unengaged, and using their imagination to block out the DULLLLLLLLLL lesson), or Oppositional Defiant Disorder(being non conformist, or different), or Social Anxiety (The kid that's a little more shy or timid, an introvert, who has only a couple of friends).

On a side note, I feel REALLY bad for the introverted children....they didn't know that they were "defective" or "broken" and needed to be "corrected" or "fixed", just because they are quiet. You may not realize it, but even to a child that young, being told that there is something wrong with them, just because they are quiet and only have a couple of friends can be damaging. They WILL start to believe it and internalize it, especially if they are really young, and it will eventually become a self fufilling prophecy.

Robin is right about the problem with getting kids into special programs in the schools. There are mounds of paperwork, in school testing, multiple meeting (most including parents) to get children into any kind os special program, whether it is special education, english language learner, or behavioral programs. And the minute you include medications, you actually have to go outside the school system to medical doctors. Beginning such a process is not something a teacher takes lightly. Nor do classroom teachers get any extra pay for all that work.

I personally believe the ADHD medications are overdone, but remember, teachers do not have the power to write prescriptions. I have only recommended a parent take a child to the doctor for ADHD twice in my career. One was a foster child who had been with the same foster family since he was a baby (and still not adopted although they would have loved to), he had been a drug/alcohol baby.

Just like even with checks in place, there may be some teachers and school systems that overdo putting kids in special programs and recommending parents medicate children for ADHD, I'm sure there are people in the foster system who know how to get children labelled and medicated with psychotic drugs, when the roots of the problem are the environments they came out of. But, one social worker I know has been fighting for months to get a diagnosis and treatment plan in place for a child who harms self and others while the "experts" disagree on exactly what should be included in the way of counseling, medication, and behavioral modification plans. Meanwhile, the child clearly needs more help than just a stable loving home. Ultimately, social workers, like teachers, may make recommendations, but such decisions are not up to them either.

I don't know...I think the boundaries between parents and teachers need to be reevaluated. As well as the ENTIRE pediatric psych treatment "system".

More importantly kids need to be ASKED DIRECTLY about these things before rushing in with psychologists, social workers, and counselors, and parents need to be notified of concerns.

Isis, I'm just curious . Have you ever been a teacher? I take great offense at teachers being called "stooges". I've taught at risk for 30 years in 7 different states in every economic culture. And yes, more kids are being labeled ADD/ADHD, but it you read the research generated book by Jane Healy, you might gain insight into why that is. The doctors I have dealt with are cautious and rusually require psychological/achievement testing as well as observations and behavioral checklists. Are they truly "organically" deficient? I seriously doubt it. I'm sure not all of them are. However, there is something to consider. The "window of learning" in terms of language arts (specifically reading) is first grade. After the 2nd grade that "window " starts to close rapidly. If by the end of 3rd grade that child isn't reading, he'she may never become a functional reader. I say that because the greatest obstacle to being able to visually track left to right in a fluent manner-attending to differences in font, text features etc., is sustained attention/focus. My area of focus is learning disabilities. I've had children who know a wealth of sight words, can sound out words but cannot read left to right. Why? Attention. I had a little girl last year who could not attend to print. I made sure she did not have symptoms of auditory or surface dyslexia. I made sure her phonemic processing abilities were solid. I made sure she did not have symbolic imagery deficits. I made sure she received Orton "Gillingham multi-model approaches, intervention in guided reading instruction, and even neurologically based instruction just in case I missed something. I also screened her for visual processing/perception/memory deficits. Her IQ was average. We as teachers felt that lack of focus was the issue, but tried everything else first. After 2 solid years of no growth, Mom took her to the doctor and put her on ADD meds. In less that 6 months she was at grade level in reading, and behavioral issues (obviously due to frustration) disappeared. This is not an isolated story. Many kids have discovered academic, emotional, and social benefit from meds. On the other hand if it doesn't work or if side effects occur the meds are stopped. Other meds might be tried or not. I've known kids who's lives were positively turned around because of meds. The problem now is not so much the kids who are hyper, but the kids who sit like zombies in their own worlds. You claim that teachers want kids to just sit and be quiet. It's the other way around. We want them more alert and focused. Zombies we have plenty of already. These kids have internal distractors. That is much harder to deal with than the "motor driven " child. I've had parents tell me how guilty they have felt about not trying meds earlier. They see the difference and realize how miserable their kids were, not to mention how far behind they are.

You also need to know that schools can loose funding by having so many kids labeled because their ELA scores are in with the regular population. For example, our school was a Blue Ribbon nationally recognize school 2 yrs. ago. Last year we got 4 new self-contained classrooms. Our scores , of course, went down and we were put on a "school improvement plan , lost funding, and a consultant had to be hired to come in. Our parents were confused about how you could go from the top to near the bottom in one year. So labeling kids is not necessarily benefit districts financially. It['s not the kids, but the "baggage" that comes with it.

And yes, it is extremely difficult to get kids labeled, or as I would rather say, "get them the help they need". I have a special needs child myself. Thank God, she was labeled, medicated, and placed in a class where she started to learn, gain confidence, and learned employment skills. That label often helps kids after highschool, too. I know there are abuses in every system. No doubt. However, my daughter is alive on this earth primarily due to meds and the wonderful doctors/therapists she had along the way. There are many, many cases such as this. Again, thank God.

BTW, that book by Jane Healy is called Endangered Minds. It should be mandatory reading for all education majors. It is very frightening, but also enlightening

Maybe all the kids you taught who were labeled were BORED. UNENGAGED.

Take all the offense you want, but when you pull the "mandated reporter" and "intervention" bs, because your superiors are the over solicitous ones, then you ARE being a stooge.

Sounds like you tried everything with that girl...EXCEPT making learning interesting and engaging. I fell asleep in a couple of my high school classes, and always stared off into space in elementary school. And I was bored out of my mind...but there's a difference. I was never "evaluated" for anything. I was never put on those types of drugs.

They are sorry they never tried meds earlier....unbelievable.

NOBODY has even BOTHERED to engage these kids. Or maybe, try a new approach to teaching them. Slower kids need to be taught differently, not drugged.

And the ones who are SUPPOSEDLY "adhd" need to be placed in the challenging classes for a week, BEFORE rushing to have them evaluated, labeled, and shipped off to their doctors for a prescription.

You obviously have no idea what strategies were used. Do you know what a multi-model program is and just how action/motor driven it is? Do you know anything about neurological instruction which includes putting on plays, etc.? No you have no idea. You have obviously never taught so your credibility is zilch. The kids I have want to read and succeed. Believe me they are not bored. You never addressed any of my points. Maybe you did need those meds. Think about it. Just because you had a bad experience does not mean that everyone has. I told you about kids and reading. That is a proven fact. Remember that window of opportunity. You have a lot of anger so I assume they wanted to label you "other health impaired"?? YOur parents should have pushed for it.

Actually, the only reason I was put on meds was because school was causing me too much stress, and given the fact that my grandfather had died not less than a year before that, and I had to deal with it on top of everything else...I had to deal with that over a two week school vacation. That is not enough time to take that kind of a shock in, and you know it. I say that you owe me an apology for saying "maybe you did need meds", now that I've informed you on what the situation was. YOU try taking a dangerous cocktail of medications. DO IT.

I wish time machines existed, so you can go back to when you were 16, and imagine what it would've been like to take:

Depakote: Weight gain, diharrea, extreme appetite increase.

Risperdal: Trembling hands (couldn't even write a four letter word), a severe stutter and stammer, always tired, weight gain...among other side effects which I was never even aware of, being drugged into stupidity.

Lithium: Water weight, pissing like a pregnant lady, bladder infection, wanting to die, numb to ANY kind of emotion.

Lamictal: Rash on the inner thighs. Lamictal can cause a deadly rash.

Abilify: Idk what that one did, because at that point I was emotionally numbed to the point of not caring about anything. I would have welcomed death, if it had meant that I didn't have to go through the suffering that those chemicals caused.

A bunch of medications that were useless to me, all because of an emotional breakdown, due to SEVERE stress. It can happen to anybody, Robyn, not just me, so you might as well tell EVERYONE who's had a nervous breakdown: "maybe you needed the meds" or "your parents should have pushed for it". Tell THEM that, see what kind of responses you get. You think I'm angry at what you said? hehehe.....tell it to someone ELSE who's also been in my shoes.

NONE of the medications, I don't care WHAT you heard about them, are NOT approved for: toddlers, OR children, OR preteens(not 'tweens;), OR teenagers, OR young adults. I wonder why I see so many social sites with pages dedicated to people who have been through what I went through, or sites with articles about suicides from these "wonder" medications, or about kids who went from happy to either really sad or really angry, or just TOTALLY emotionally detached.

It was STRESS, lady. And it was not handled right at all. The only reason they decided to keep me and sedate, drug, and run a bunch of fancy tests was because my father had insurance. They milked it for all it was worth, and then some.

"You have a lot of anger." I don't have a "lot of anger" I do have frustration, trying to get you to open your eyes....kind of hard to do when they've been bonded shut with state of the art glue, isnt it?

Just because I use caps lock does not mean that I'm angry. Unless you are here with me, how do you know I'm angry? I could be laughing at my cats antics for all you know. Way to make blind assumptions, Robyn.

It does irk me a bit that italics aren't enough to get the message through to you people on the vine...nowadays, you have to use CAPS LOCK to drill the message through. And when that doesn't work, "people" like yourself, have to let the system hit rock bottom and explode before you see what's under its supposedly beautiful shell.

"Your parents should have pushed for it." Hah! Wrong again, Dr. Robyn. That's your new nickname, Dr. Robyn....what'll it be today, a big jolt of electricity through my body to induce a massive siezure, to erase my thoughts so that you can write what YOU want on it? Oh, more Lithium, ok...I'll try not to think about the Reaper after you've given me my pills, but no promises! *sarcasm*

Everyone I knew, my mother, my neighbors, my friends in school, and even my father admits that the situation was completely mishandled.

My old neighbor told me "They never should have had you on those meds, they ruined your health, your weight, and you were never the same sweet girl I knew before all that happened to you. I still can't believe they did that." My mother said "When your grandparents called me and told me what was happening to you, I was so scared and upset for you." I can tell that she holds a lot of resentment because of it, and I do, too, I'll admit to that.

Before psychiatry ran amok in this country, my situation would've been dealt with by taking me to TALK to somebody about my stress, and what was bothering me, BEFORE locking me away and drugging me. Nowadays, people are sooo quick to get a pill without even talking to the child or the teenager.....but that's not surprising, I mean youth have absolutely ZERO say in their healthcare, especially if the doctor agrees (sides with) the parent. Basically, they have no rights when it comes to their health.

No wonder so many are getting emancipated, their trying to break away from the shackles of control freak parents, who have resorted to buying into the "magic pill" hype and medicating their kids."

"Fill you with Ritalin to get you in a mood they approve of" George Carlin.

You're right that I have no idea what "models" are used, but the fact that children are being MASS drugged, should tell you that the system has flawed and is broken, and needs to be rebuilt.

Teachers should stick to what they know. And the child's health should be between the doctor, the parent, AND the child, no matter how young. Even the child should have a voice.

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2004&rant=adhd

http://www.snipeme.com/archive.php?year=2005&rant=screenings

My daughter was on Lithium, Lamictal, Seroquel, Paxil, Concerta all at the same time. Guess what? What happened to you did not happen to her. She would have been dead a long time ago. No side affects from any of those drugs. Did you hear that -no side affects. She is gainfully employed, has a wonderful social life, and is a beautiful, blonde, blue eyed, slim girl whose been asked to model and has dated a professional athlete. Why am I telling you this? Because many people need it and react positively to it. My daughter had no negative mental/emotional/physical side affects. Did you hear that again. She had not one negative affect.

I do not ever tell a parent what I think is wrong with their child unless there is an auditory phonological deficts, apraxia, pragmatic language delays ,visual perceptual deficits, fine/gross motor delays, and other academically related difficulties-all that have been proven from data/assessments. There are some children whose lives are "saved" by meds. Not all, by any means. Just because it didn't work for you, doesn't mean it won't work for others. Again, you have not addressed any of my comments. The parent of the child I talked about did not hear the word , ADD. The mother pursued it on her own.I suppose you would have let that child go on without being able to read. Lack of ability to visual tracking is not because of boredom. It is a neurological function that is not being accessed for whatever reason. "That's why we "tease out" everything we can. I've done this for a long time , and have been very successful with medicated/unmedicated students. The problem is-is if it is truly an attention issue-language acquisition and visual perception are many times affected. It has nothing to do with boredom. It has to do with not being able to access those areas needed to learn. Now you can rant and rave all you want. You haven't offered rebuttals to any of this. YOu just "obsess" over your own situation.

Yes, more and more kids are being put on meds. Do I think they all should. No, I don't. However, kids brains are different than they used to be. The neurons are not embedded, but are "darting around" like crazy. In other words, our kids are "surface" learnings. Staring at flat screens, dysfunctional families , spending way too much time in daycare affects language acquisition, visual perception/tracking, emotions, anxiety levels, sustained attention, abstract/higher order thinking ability. In other words, many of our kids are coming in "damaged" from the start. Do I think meds would solve all of this.? Heavens, no! Now, a "new movement" is starting to make it's way to the surface. I've been involved for several years in training from national consultants who have recognized we have to change our methods to reach these new learners.

Again, my daughter and many others are healthy and whole today because of meds/therapy. You have no right to deny happiness to others just because you did not experience the same.

The mother pursued it on her own....so in other words, the appointments and visits and all that were done BEFORE informing her daughter right?

Oh, and I'm sure her doctor would've figured it out at her next checkup that her eyes weren't quite right. Her child's doctor does NOT need your help, they would've noticed it. I'll bet her parents already KNEW something was up, but for some reason, couldn't get her to the doctor at that time...and when they already know but are tied up with other things at once, then you need to BACK OFF, and let them handle it. Teachers badgering parents who are already stressed and ALREADY know about the situation is only going to cause tension.

Whether it is neurological or not, it is between the doctor and parent, NOT the teacher. You teachers need to figure out boundaries. When you've alerted the parent, you leave it to them, and when you don't, it becomes meddling. The ONLY exception to this rule is if it is making the child physically ill, and they are being neglectful. That is the ONLY exception. In all other cases, it is a form of MEDDLING when the parent has made it clear that they are aware and that it is being handled, yet the teacher won't shut up.

All you can do is recommend, and that is it. But I've been seeing a lot of "recommendations" lately.....and it's no coincidence.

Yes, it's a damn shame to deny children the ability to read, in those cases it is necesary ONLY in a SMALL percentage of all these other "cases", but you and I know DAMN well that it is not a neurological disorder as often the Psychiatric Industry, Big Pharma, and the Public school/Social Services system leads us to believe...they make it sound like "every kid is mentally ill, or has some issue, and needs MANDATED treatment." Notice: Every KID....this stuff doesn't happen to adults, because they have a VOICE once they're eighteen.

They say the same thing about kids who have trouble writing. Or with math. Or with coloring...oh noes, they're coloring OUTSIDE the lines! We have to test their vision! Or if they draw something weird or different, they're swept into the school psychologist's office, who will then "screen" them to find out if they're disturbed.

They're making it look like the majority are mentally ill, when it is not true at all. They have gotten corrupt, they are becoming too greedy, and they need to be stopped. Fired on the spot, and the ENTIRE system of the "mental health industry" NOT just pediatric mental health, needs to be wiped clean and REDONE.

I am not saying "deny happiness". WHERE in my post does it say that? Huh? Point it out. Point out EXACTLY where I said "I want to deny children happiness".....did your daughter tell you herself that she's happy? Or is it the pharmeceutical pool of chemical characters in her bloodstream talking?

No side effects huh? I'm guessing it's only been a couple of years (less than 10) on these meds, give her a few more years to about a decade, and THEN tell me that she is not having adverse side effects.....few more years on Lithium, and she's likely to get kidney problems. Few more years on Seroquel, and she's likely to get severe weight gain, diabetes, pancreaitis, diabetic coma.....not saying she will get these problems, but just so you know that along with the "wonderful improvement" :D, the chambers are loaded with some nasty stuff. Few more years on Paxil, and if she gets pregnant, that poor child could have: birth defects...she could end up addicted, it IS possible. Few more years on Concerta, she could have a heart attack, stroke, or heart problems....I hope she is aware of what she is putting into her body.

you're going to hate me for this, but I hope she does not get pregnant while putting these chemicals in her system...now THAT would be damaged from the start.

Oh, and I want you to answer that question. WHERE did I say I want to deny children happiness? If you're gonna take YOUR thoughts and assumptions about me and try to pass them off as my words when YOU are the one who assumed, then be prepared to back it up, Dr. Robyn. You want to put words in my mouth and in my posts? Bring it on.

You are seriouly disturbed. Meds may not have helped you, but you need something. Counseling? I'm not sure. Talk about assumptions?? You seem to know all about my students, my daughter, and my teaching . YOu can't refute what I say so you decide to make assumptions and predict the future. As I've told you before , my daughter wouldn't even have had a future. She is no longer taking Lamictal, Lithium, Paxil,. She's down to one Seraquil a night, and on the lowest dose of Concerta.. I did my research and learned that if you start medical intervention at an early age (for bi-polar) the brain can actually heal itself in some instances. Guess what? It obviously did. Her doctors even consider her a "poster child" for starting meds early, so that she wouldn't have to continue taking meds. YOu are obviously one miserable human being. Get help! Since you're miserable, you want everyone else to feel the same. You can't stand anyone who leads a successful, happy life. Your defense is that "bad things" will happen later on. Good God, do you have hobbies, friends, close family members. Do you sit around in this "state" all the time?

Yes, my daughter is happy. She will be the first to tell you of the utter hopelessness she felt before. She was begging for help. And she got it. Oh, BTW she has never wanted children, so don't worry. She says she doesn't want to ruin her figure! She also doesn't want to give up her life of dating handsome /rich men. I know that sounds vain, but after the earthly hell she went through I wish her all the happiness in the world. Sorry, she isn't depressed and suicidal anymore. I know you want that.

Did I SAY that I know your daughter? No. I simply looked up the side effects that she may get on these medications. The side effects that I STUDIED ONLINE, are not assumptions. They are proven side effects. I did NOT try to predict the future, I was just giving a warning.

Newsflash: YOU are the one who revealed to me that she is medicated, I just informed you on the potential dangers. Oh, and maybe if you had made it clear two or three posts ago, that she is no longer on as many meds, maybe I wouldn't have had to look all that stuff up. I wasn't trying to predict the future, I honestly thought that you might've been misinformed on the medications (as I was), and was trying to be helpful....and you jump down my throat, trying to tell me that I'm "disturbed" and that I need "counseling".....counseling/therapy does not help victims, it creates them.

Rather than go to a therapist, I'm going to save my money, and LEARN on my own from these experiences. I am going to channel my issues, and yes I have issues, into my writing and art. Yes, I'll admit I have issues, but they are not NEARLY as exaggerated as you've made them. I'm a SURVIVOR of a lot of F**cked up sh*t, and I got though it without doctors and therapy. What makes you think that I can't do it again? Actually, I don't care if you think I can do it again or not. I KNOW I can do it, since I've found solutions for myself before.

I tried to help you out, just tried to make sure you were aware of how powerful those meds are, and you bit my head off, calling me "disturbed". I may have issues (who doesn't?) but they aren't as exaggerated as you've blown them up in your head.

I've done it before, I can do it again. Besides you, who said I need a person with a clipboard and leather couch to do that? You? Sorry, but you don't know as much as you think about therapy. but you need something. Counseling? I'm not sure. You are NOT sure. Exactly. So keep your advice.

"Since you're so miserable". I'm not miserable, I post these things so that parents KNOW what they're getting into before taking their child to all kinds of doctors. I want them to look at the pros AND the cons of medication. That does not make me miserable. The day I threw out my meds was the GREATEST day of my life so far, and I have not had any "incident" since. I feel like me again, and I am not a miserable person.

I hang out with friends, I visit my family, I play with my pets, and the people I know do not say that I'm "miserable". I read, draw, write, listen to music, and some of it I share with others....you say I'm miserable? PROVE IT. Oh wait, you can't prove it because there is no state.

Sorry, she isn't depressed and suicidal anymore. I know you want that. Ok I'm gonna have to backtrack, or else I'm gonna confuse you.

1. In your last post, that is the ONLY post where you told me that your daughter HERSELF asked for treatment. Had you made this clear sooner, maybe I wouldn't have made the mistake that it was all you. So no, I am not hoping that she is suicidal or unhappy. Good for her that the medications helped.

That you would tell me that I want someone to be unhappy and want to kill themselves.....well, now I'M offended. How dare you!

The fact that you would even say such a thing about me, when I was just trying to help you out/inform you, says a LOT about you, doesn't it? I wouldn't wish that sort of thing on my own mother, and she's one HELL of a nightmare, let me tell ya. Now YOU made that assumption about how I want others to suffer. You said that I want somebody to be suicidal. You were trying to hurt me, you were trying to make me feel less than human, when I was actually RELIEVED to hear that she's doing well...yet you try to make me feel like crap for wanting to help you out. Thanks...I guess.

2. I am not disturbed. You do not know what I need. Did you know that art can be a form of therapy, as well as writing, which I have listed as one of my hobbies? And that pets can be therepeutical? I have two amazing cats, and you'd be surprised how petting a cat can help with all the BS. The reason I don't talk to anyone, is because they are quick to judge and call me "disturbed"...like you did, when you flew off the handle. You are a VERY hurtful person.

Talking to people has only made it worse. People have said FAR crueler things, and made far too many off judgements, unjustly criticizing and acted a lot more condescending to me than you did when I opened up to them. Some of these people were professionals. So, um counseling? No thanks.

I'm not "normal" but who is??? I'm a little strange, but that's not bad. I see that as a positive quality. If it weren't for my strangeness, I'd have a LOT less art.

You can't stand anyone who leads a successful, happy life. PROVE IT. My brother leads a successful, happy life, despite our abusive junkie mother and I am VERY proud of him, and very happy that he's doing fine. I couldn't be more greatful for him and what he's accomplished.

Your defense is that "bad things" will happen later on. Nope. I do not say that for CERTAIN bad things will happen, but I'm not one to get my hopes up. I've learned to expect roadblocks, so that way it doesn't hit me like a huge shock if it DOES happen. Granted, these "roadblocks" don't happen very often, but I find it best to be prepared for the good and bad that can come your way. That does not mean I'm unhappy. That actually makes me HAPPY, and SMART, that I'm so prepared for the crap life throws! Yay for me! I saw it coming, and everyone else got knocked out cold, but I dodged out of its way!

Maybe YOU are the messed up one, since you won't even apologize to a person who just tried to help. And I acknowledge I made a couple of mistakes in my post, but that in NO way justifies you telling me that I want people to be suicidal. That does NOT justify you talking to me like I'm some sort of souless monster. What's worse, you are INCAPABLE of acknowleging that you jumped down my throat, attacked me, calling me disturbed, and apologizing for it, even after I acknowledged that I made mistakes and assumptions in my own post. I was wrong....but I guess your flying off the handle and attacking another user was the right thing to do....

Isis, I am not above apologizing. I am not a vindictive person. 'But your posts suggest that you imply that "one size fits all" when it comes to medication. "That just isn't true and absurd to even think it. You had an awful experience, and you think you are helping others by telling this over and over. However, it comes off as "I had this bad experience so you shouldn't use meds either". How many people have I talked to that kept putting off taking any meds because of the horrible experiences of a few people. If my aunt had listened, maybe she wouldn't have killed herself. If my dad had been diagnosed with bi-polar years ago, maybe my mom wouldn't have been physically/verbally abused by him and our lives would have been better. Instead, he was diagosed at the age of 76. He is now enjoying life, and thank God so is my mom. You made a good point. Decisions are left to the parent, child, and physician. I can live with that. I have lived with that. You need to also. I am not a physician and neither are you.

Oh, yes, I am very sorry if I have hurt your feelings. But I am a professional who works hard at what I do and continually strives to work with other professionals so as to make sure I am doing the best job I possibly can for my students. And when I was referred to as a "stooge" (as well as cursed at), I felt that I had to defend myself and my colleagues. That was incredibly rude.

I truly hope you continue to find peace in your life.

It only came off that way because you choose to feel offended. You could've ignored those feelings and asked me to elaborate, but you didn't.

I never said ALL teachers were stooges, but I have seen many that just rolled over and did what they were told, and if they didn't they got written up.....that's the trap of the "mandated reporter" card, and I actually ADMIRE teachers who go to the student BEFORE they report them.

But....some teachers will just assume the student is a "liar" or in "denial" when they're telling the truth.

One size does not fit all, but not all need "treatment" nowadays.

There are a HANDFUL of truly insane people out there, who need treatment, sometimes forced, but that doesn't change the fact that there is such a sudden increase in "diagnoses" in young children, foster children, teens, ......MINORS.

I accept your apology, and I apologize for making assumptions. It was rude, but I've seen both sides of the coin. It was never meant to offend anyone on the vine personally.

I'm 21 years old..unemployed, stressed out, and worried about what is going to happen to the U.S. if the economy doesn't improve....I have a small bit of peace, and right now I'm going to have to take all the peace I can get and grind through the rest of this BS.

Thank you for the positive message at the end.....I'm rather pessimistic, so it helped a little.

Isis, I hope our "vine" paths cross again because I sincerely want to know how you are doing. I'm sending some very positive energy your way. Take care and hang in there. You do have valuable information to share. Yes, there are some kids/young people who need something other than meds, or in addition to. You are that person for them. You are that person who has been there and done that. You have a valuable lesson to be shared.

Her backround contributes to it, but she is also at that age where she's growing into a young woman, so she's likely very moody, what with hormones and puberty. She'll grow out of it, I'm sure.

It's not the governments fault that doctors are writing these prescriptions. It IS the governments fault for subsidizing special needs care through cash payments to the foster parents without requiring any proof of disability beyond a script. Jesus, I need to provide more proof of home life, vet care and safety to adopt a cat.

These are the abuses that lead to the detriment of our economy and they are reason why there needs to be a total reform of social services in this country.

I agree. We have to solve problems case by case. We can't look at someone's negative experience and say that's how it is going to be for everyone.