Not everyone with "autism" has serious impediments.

But many do.

Many, yes. But many also don't.

Define "serious impediment".
Many children benefit tremendously from early intervention. Are you in the field of autism?

See #1.6

I notice you didn't define "serious impediment" and instead just claimed to be an aspie.

Maybe it's because I would know?

You're dense.

What is your role in the field of autism, Phil? Can you be more specific as to what your involvement is? In other words, do you have a bias or do you benefit from more people being diagnosed?

Bookem Danno
google my name and the word autism.
Ruken...why don't you actually define serious impediment? If you are an aspie then you would know that no two aspies are alike...you don't speak for the entire aspie or autism community.
Having aspergers does not make you an expert in the field.

Kudos to you Ruken for maintaining some equanimity in the face of unrelenting ass-hattery.

And Phil, how about you come across with some credentials? Or STFU.

Ruken...why don't you actually define serious impediment?

Sure.

What came to my mind is having symptoms that would prevent the sufferer from carrying on in mainstream society without any treatment or assistance.

I knew one child who had mild autism whose mother would not let the teacher give the child any structure or disciple so that he could learn to deal with his autism. No, his mother wanted to baby him because he had autism.

I googled your name, Phil. It appears you have an autistic son and have some YouTube videos about caring for an autistic child. This would not be classified as being in the autism field from what I found.

You are the father of a child afflicted with this disease and not a practitioner of medicine or researcher from what I found. Therefore, your stating to Ruken that he/she has no idea is unfounded because you two are basically on the same plane...except Ruken has the diagnosis.

Ruken...You are the first person I have ever met with aspergers syndrome that described a person with autism as a "sufferer"...very odd way to describe them.
Anyways...the way you described serious impediment (having symptoms that would prevent the sufferer from carrying on in mainstream society without any treatment or assistance) is exactly what early intervention is trying to help a child diagnosed with autism avoid. So you agree that early intervention is important.

Bookem...I do much more than those videos and it was just to show you that I am very well versed in the field of autism.
And autism is not a disease as you called it...you are as uninformed as Ruken.

I'm uninformed? How so?

I said:

Not everyone with "autism" has serious impediments. [#2.1]

To which I further defined:

What came to my mind is having symptoms that would prevent the sufferer from carrying on in mainstream society without any treatment or assistance. [#2.11]

And to tie up with my first point:

I'm a diagnosed Aspie.

I graduated high school with honors. I graduated college. I have a career. [#1.6]

It seems to me that I made a valid point...

So Ruken isn't educated about the situation even though he has aspergers. But Phil is because his son is autistic. How is that even a remotely logical argument?

Ya know --- this discussion thread has gone crazy. I have both a wife who is a PhD research psychologist at a Tier 1 university and a grand-daughter who was diagnosed with Aspbergers. A couple of our best friends are a man-wife research team who do developmental work (interventions) on autism spectrum disorders. So there gets to be a lot of dinnertable discussion with all thje name-calling and rancor.

My grand-daughter will never get any medication and the intevention will consist of reminders to make eye contact, or explanations of why an answer could have been improved, or an admonition not to zone out with cartoons. That's it. That's all that will be necessary to have a child who grows into a fully functional adult well within the bell-shaped curve.

There are other kids who basically can't be helped much, but even for them levels of understanding and palliative care are called for. I see some of them going into my wife's building where the autism clinic is located. I feel bad because they are, for the most part beautiful children --- almost remarkably so.

In the middle are lots of children who require help to be as functional as they can be. And because they did nothing wrong to cause their condition, and children are God's most perfect work, they deserve all the help we can give them.

There are a couple of Neanderthal skeletons that are relevant to this. One was a person whose back and hip were both badly broken and the bones had completely healed. This person would have been a parapalegic and would have required that others care for him. The other had a birth defect and would never have been able at any point to care for himself, but lived well into adulthood. It seems that Neanderthals had mastered the ethos of caring for those who can't care for themselves, but we "modern" people seem to have lost the skill somewhere. It's a shame, too. Life could be a lot better if people could see things from one another's perspectives and not spend so much time on name-calling and sipte and malice. Anger and hate are simply eating this country up. And none of it is necessary.

Phil, face facts (though we all realize you detest doing so). As the kids say, Ruken has PWNED you. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Asberger's is quite different from True Autism.

Curious Phil---what age did your child go into Day Care? And I don't ask this disrespectfully but I have my own theory on why soo many---too many children are currently diagnosed as Autistic---sure some of the symtoms are similar, yet too many diagnosed kids today do not have the symptom of Self stimulation. Sure they have delayed speech, lack of eye contact, stiff bodies, make/seek bonds with strangers easily---however once disgnosed the parents seems/tends to give the child more time, more 1 on 1 time, more positive time and more excuses for poor behaviors and the child appears to heal and become more attentive and socially functional individual.

Thus I often ponder if many of these little ones diagnosed with Autism are really suffering from an Attachment Disorder caused by being placed in Daycare at a very young age (2-3 months and onward) hence breaking the bond/trust between primary caregiver (parent) and child. Of course a medical disgnosis such as Autism or Asberger's is much easier to accept than a mental/emotional disorder such as an Attachment Disorder.

In the long run, I agrees that the definition needs to change to one more specified and definitive. As right the term Autism is leaned upon too often and thus misdiagnosed!

I agree with Phil. Having Asperger's does not make one an Autism expert anymore than having cancer makes one an oncologist.

Phil Commander said this:

Ruken...You are the first person I have ever met with aspergers syndrome that described a person with autism as a "sufferer"...very odd way to describe them.

If so, then you haven't met a lot of people with Asperger's Syndrome. You also don't get out much. Go to "Autism Speaks" or "Wrong Planet" and type in the word "suffer"--you will find a lot of articles about how people with autism "suffer" from many conditions such as sleep problems, seizures, and social awkwardness. Thus, people with Asperger's Syndrome do suffer, and using the word "sufferer" is not incorrect, though the connotations of the word might be problematic.

Ruken's use of the noun "sufferer" rather than "afflicted" or other such noun mostly indicates that Ruken doesn't have a really good grasp of how someone with ill intent might leap on the term as "irregular" and try to gain the upper hand in a conversation by exploiting the connotations--connotations that only a person with a high order social skills would understand the implication of--that is, Ruken doesn't have a really good grasp of the behavior of individuals who are neither sincere nor well intended and isn't that up on the connotations of words. That's fairly characteristic of a person with Asperger's Syndrome.

Your use of literal language ("involved in the autism community for 8 years", for example) in order to obscure a point--the point being that you have no expertise in autism, that there is no such thing as "the" autism community, and that 8 years is an extremely brief time (a person even with specialized training who started only 8 years ago would not be considered a senior fellow, but a beginning researcher)--shows, again, that you are a person of ill intent who is utilizing language to obscure rather than illuminate.

As a parent of a child who probably has Asperger's Syndrome--never bothered to get it diagnosed because in our state, it wouldn't do any good, but would haunt her as a "diagnosis of mental disorder"--and whose child is now in her 20's, I guess I've got about three times the experience that you have, as well as an advanced degree (in a different field), but would never, ever suggest that I know more than a small amount about autism. I certainly do not know as much as someone who actually has the syndrome.

Now, let's look at your main claim--that no two people with autism are the same. Well, if no two people with autism are the same, and there are no commonalities between them, then how do you know that they have a syndrome in common? Perhaps they don't have a syndrome in common. It is when people have common symptoms that we diagnose them as having, you know, a syndrome--that's what makes a syndrome, a syndrome. People with a syndrome in common must have common characteristics that they share . . . that's kind of a basic point that seems to be eluding you.

Now, if your point is that no two people are identical--well, then we are going to get into that ridiculous 60's era language about how no two children are the same and they are each as unique as snowflakes (disregarding the point that there actually are standard snowflake patterns--but let's not digress). Of course no two people will be absolutely identical, because no two people will have precisely the same experiences, and each person will have grown up in a unique environment. We could say the same of people with cancer, or people with Type II diabetes--it's a valid point only insofar as we remember not to be overly rigid in treatments.

A person with Asperger's Syndrome is well worth listening to, as that person has insights about his or her experiences. We wouldn't want to overgeneralize that person's experiences--but listening to many such people will provide us with patterns by which we can, in fact, determine what features such people have in common.

A person, however, who would market himself as someone with expertise when his main claims to fame are a few YouTube videos and a young child who might or might not be receiving adequate treatment isn't really worth anyone's time.

Collapsing the diagnosis of "autism" is foolish. It is a little like collapsing the diagnosis of asthma, chronic bronchitis, and COPD into "respiratory illnesses." Each of these should receive different treatment, even though all three of them result in "shortness of breath" because each of them is caused by something else.

Psychologists are not really well trained--they are people with a PhD in a humanities field. They are not trained doctors. They are often people who are motivated by a desire for money and for power--when there was a diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome, they were often kept out of the loop because mild Asperger's can be treated by occupational therapists. By redefining everything as "autism," and by defining treatment in such a way that they are in the loop, they not only make money but become the most powerful voices in the ASD field. Do not try to tell me that this is not what they want.

Asperger's Syndrome might or might not be autism. The symptoms of one disease might look like very like another's, but be caused by something entirely different (go watch an episode of House if you can't quite get your brain around that one) or at least be treated quite differently. There are similarities between Asperger's and other varieties of autism--that psychologists can't tell the difference really has more to do with their lack of professionalism than it has to do with the syndromes.

It is my belief that people with Asperger's are, by and large, capable of getting jobs and dealing with life as long as they get treatment--preferably via occupational therapists and behavioral therapists. They don't need to have "autism"--many people go to behavioral therapists because they are shy. Many people go to occupational therapists because they are socially awkward. The only problem is that this will all have to be out of pocket because one's insurer might not pay for it (mine will--but only a few visits). However, since many people with Asperger's Syndrome are often extraordinarily bright--they also could teach one another (and parents of such children) how to "treat" the condition without professional help when such help is unavailable elsewhere.

This is what Temple Grandin tries to do, and it is what others with Asperger's try to do. While ideally a professional is best, we have to realize that the psychological community apparently has given into greed and self-worship. People must help one another and themselves. While that is very sad, I'd like to point out that your self-grandiosity and self-pity is getting in the way of people with autism spectrum disorders speaking for themselves--so why not just STFU and let them speak? Okay? Some of us are interested in hearing them. If you aren't, then find another forum. Have a great day.

Having a child with leukemia doesn't make you an oncologist either.

I agree with Phil as well from the stand point that Ruken's declaration of being as an "aspie" in no way qualifies him to speak for others with a similarly labeled conditions since such conditions manifest or present in various degrees and types of affected behaviors.

@beanathome,

I would take exception to your statement about psychologists, particularly PhD's. A physician is not a "doctor" who can be compared with a PhD. It takes about three times as much education to get an earned PhD than it does to get an MD. And for a clinical psychologist it is about twice what a board-certified psuychiatrist (an MD) requires in training. Most MD's do not even have a college degree, graduating only from a "school" sponsored by a college or university. A lawyer has the same degree and the same level of training as a physician except his is a JD, not an MD.

A PhD is a PhD. It is not specific to a field as such and certainly not in "humanities" as you say it. My wife is a PhD psychologist. She can and has taught in medical schools (Emory and Penn), engineering schools (Drexel) and in several colleges and universities. There are doctorates in Psychology and other fields but only a handful are equivalent to a PhD.

The bottom line is that you simply have zero idea what you are talking about. It is better to keep quiet and be thought ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

How old are you, Ruken? I have some good news for you. If your are really an aspie, your symptoms will only get worse with age. It's a simple matter of the capacity of an older brain to keep up the same level of compensation. If you're older, and don't have any "serious impediments," then I suggest you've been mis-diagnosed.

@silly, refrigerator mom theory was debunked years ago... Kids with autism do not have autism due to day care or bad parenting and you insinuation of that is repulsive. Go away you offer NOTHING construction to the discussion.

sad day for medi-fraud...the latest,greatest faux ailment...if child is truly deranged it should be treated by a neurologist or a psychologist...not at some federally funded pedia therapy mall store by poorly trained "therapists" with their dubious "certificates"....autism community?...give me a break.

GOOGLE BOSTON GLOBE of last year about this time !!! Three day storie on fraud commited by parents to get their kids on SSI. It pays more than welfare !! The biggest thing was the LIBERAL social workers they investigated KNEW they were frauds but felt they were needy and deserved the SSI money !!! DISCUSTING !

Silly --
Stay where you are. LOL (Reference to nut's post.)

Don't ask me for the reference to this, because it was a long time ago, but back in the 50s a study was done on children who were institutionalized as babies. It was found that even when they received good care and attention, they suffered a variety of developmental challenges and did not make good eye contact, did not bond emotionally, and evidenced little or no empathy.

Sounds a lot like autism, doesn't it? As for so-called "self-stimulation," I've seen it and in my opinion the child is trying to comfort itself.

Many women voluntarily institutionalize their babies at 6 WEEKS of age! They think it's okay because it's called "day care" and they take the child away to sleep elsewhere at night, as if the child is going to magically know the place where it sleeps is "home," and the "mommy" it sees for a couple of hours every day isn't just another of the string of ever-changing strangers that pass by.

It's beyond cruel. It's totally inhumane. Even a female dog doesn't abandon her babies that way.

chris,

I agreed with everything you have said up until your last post:

It takes about three times as much education to get an earned PhD than it does to get an MD

Really? How do you figure that? My undergrad degree took 4 years, med school was 4 more, then residency (which is required to practice medicine) was an additional 3. And this doesn't go for everyone, but my fellowship was 5 years.

So, by my calculation, either you are rusty at math, or you have spent 48 years in school. Nice try

Most MD's do not even have a college degree, graduating only from a "school" sponsored by a college or university

Simply not true. every single accredited medical school in the US requires a college degree. I got my degree from the same institution that future PhDs got their degree from. And it was the same exact undergrad degree with the same exact requirements

I could also point out that while a PhD is about 8 years from high school to completion, a MD has to do that PLUS a residency +/- a fellowship, which consists of long shifts of sleepless nights working harder than you could imagine

I don't know why I come across all these PhDs on here who feel like they have to denegrate MDs to support their own egos. a PhD is a very prestigious degree which requires a lot of hard work, intelligence and dedication to earn.

You do not need to crap all over someone else's field to show that

I would like to add my own bit to this. As someone who was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome at the age of 13 (and has had his diagnoses messed with frequently throughout his life) I would always suffer from being detached from society.

It did not help that I had OCD, which meant that psychological aspects of socialization were harder to get over because of the obsessive obedience complex (it's harder to convince me - and to a heavier extent my mind - to break obedience habits mostly because memories are ingrained in a deep, hard-to-access part of my brain). If you tell me to obey a command that someone else says is illogical, it will overload my cognitive functions, forcing me into a stalemate that I usually end up resolving with a guilty conscience being the end result.

Also, to comment on what bassdad said about being forced onto meds - from the early age of 6 or 7 (I forget which, it's not a part of my life I like to remember), I was placed on Lithium and Risperdal. Neither medicine dealt with the emotional problems and I was told that the medicine wasn't supposed to be a cure for the problems. What ran through my brain was: "Then why the hell am I on them?" Of course, due in part to a psychological lesson I learned that "defying your parents is the biggest crime you'll ever commit", I did not speak out. And neurologically, doing so has been extremely hard.

Since then, I've been on practically every medication in the book (I can't list them all off my head, but I know my psychiatrist would agree - one look at my chart tells you all you need to know). I have been suppressed, silenced, imprisoned, degraded, insulted, and just overall been raised as a overly weak-willed sheeple - I don't have aggression due to the fear of losing freedom, but at the same time am also too cowardly according to those same people.

My very diploma seems suspect: I graduated Class of 2006, under a law that allows you to automatically be exempt from the CAHSEE if you a)attempt each portion at least once, and b)have a mental/learning disability. While I don't believe I initially fell under the law's terms, I was somehow "grandfather claused" into it. However, because I had bouts of serious fatigue that prevented me from attempting the math portion, it was a requirement that I pass it to graduate (and as anyone that knew me then would tell you, math is my absolute weakest subject). Miraculously, I had passed. The ecstasy of graduation obscured something fishy about it - after all, they never showed me my scores, even when I asked.

I can say overall that the biggest challenge to my youth has been people making assumptions without showing me the evidence, thinking I'm not smart enough to work out the heavy terminology myself (English IS my best subject, after all). Today, I work with heavy social withdrawal (though that may be due to a significant lack of proper social exposure), and am currently at odds trying to confront a past that hinders me (to the point where the anger will cause me to speak gibberish/in tongues), and a mother that has avoided all possible negative conflicts - as well as some key issues to MY life that she refuses to mention (my father, certain things she's said regarding me, abuse that occurred in my life).

My view on the matter is this: If you throw a diagnosis on a child without significant proof to back it up, that child will have a gigantic psychological impediment on their minds - but it won't be what they were diagnosed with; instead, they'll feel like their own parents needed an excuse to label them inferior.

If I could go back in time, I would challenge my diagnosis. I would ASK the doctors to work with me, to listen to me, to seek my input on things. If this diagnosis is true and correct, and others can prove it, then I will accept it.

However, if it is indeed a misdiagnosis, then there's gonna be some serious inquisition from certain parties. They're gonna need to explain why the @!$%# they felt the need to silence me and suppress me.

P.S. I would like to add one more thing. When I was still in grade school, my mother's partner at the time blocked the doorway, and told me to hit her. I wouldn't do it, but she refused to let me go anywhere until I did. So I tapped her - about 2/5ths of my full power, and she gives me a giant sucker punch with like triple that force in response, which knocks the wind out of me. Using this hitstun period, she shuts the door and barricades it - how she did, I do not remember.

But a few years later, when I attempted to tell the police about it, they seriously silenced me, and then tried to play off parental superiority - that no replacement parents would be as good as them, which I gullibly ate like cheese. Even now, mental health associates refuse to do anything about it, and most times will even side with my mother.

I swear, that serpent goddess makes me filled to the BRIM with anger sometimes.

@ Chris-749391,

"I would take exception to your statement about psychologists, particularly PhD's. A physician is not a "doctor" who can be compared with a PhD. It takes about three times as much education to get an earned PhD than it does to get an MD."

Sir/Ma'am, save your breath, You are, as I am, about 0.1% of the NewsVine population, i.e. those who understand what a PhD actually entails/means.

I've argued this before, and it goes on and on and on and on....

Sir/Ma'am, I now choose my battles. It astounds me how often, out of sheer determination, ignorance wins. I recommend you carefully choose your battle.

@eric-2573068

"chris, I agreed with everything you have said up until your last post:...."

Eric, PLEASE, please play nice, OK? Some of us have both professional and academic degrees. We (though a tiny minority?) get it, Sorry you don't. OK?

Please let it go.

boris,

useless post as usual. I wish you could put whatever degree you have to some use

@Chris-749391

God bless you for your understanding of special needs children, and the lack of humanity that is the "Black Plague" of our world. Many others here could use a healthy dose of humility, understanding, and what it means to selflessly serve others in need. Cheers

@CrimsonCujo: Get a lawyer and sue - seriously. It was not appropriate and it was abuse. Some people need suing - she is one. It is the only reasonable way you have to rectify the situation which will not have a negative outcome for you.

@Ruken: It's very nice that you are able to function without assistance and (apparently) didn't need any assistance or educational help during your life. That being said, it is not much of a point. You are one person.

There are hundreds of thousands of children with Asperger's who do in fact need some support to reach the point you are at in life, and can with support. Or is it only about you?

Your point is really selfish and statistically meaningless, I would encourage you to think about why you felt it was important.

As for those who imply that Asperger's is somehow bad parenting that parents want to medicate like ADHD - I understand why you feel that way and I assure you that it is simply ignorance; the hallmark of much of the behavior is that it is not a choice. No amount of punishment, beating or structure will change it, one can only help the Aspie learn to understand it and process it (its not like other people do - and the science supports that) in ways that make them more able to cope with it.

This entire debate is really a joke. The Psychologists are like Congress declaring Pizza a Vegetable - saying it is so doesn't change the science.

@eric,

Not ranking on MD's or JD's, but people get very confused about professional degrees and fuel is being added to the fire with unearned doctorates and unearned ""PhDs." I am not a PhD, but I am one of those rare birds --- I'm married to one and most of our frields are academics (with a sprinkling of students.)

1) Most physicians do not have an intercalated degree (an undergraduate degree) it is 2 years of pre-med or pre-law and on to 4 years of med school then 3 years of residency. It averages 9 years, shote of a specialty and residents actually make pretty good money. That's pretty typical. The starting average pay for an MD is around $250k a year (fully booked --- pay and benefits.)

2) An average non-clinical PhD goes an average of 5 years for a BS (most students aiming for a graduate degree load more heavily), 2-3 years for a MS, and an additional 3-6 for a PhD. It all averages a little more than 10 years --- but them starts the infamous "post-doc" work which can easily go on for 10-20 years. I include post-doctoral work because a) it is not independent work and b) the pay is typically less than minimum wage or a "subsistence stipend" that is even lower. The starting pay for a PhD is often minimum wage. Academic pay is very bad and advancement depends heavily on "P&L", publications and luck.

An MD or a JD is not intended to be an academic degree. It is a vocational degree. Only current knowledge needs to be taught, and not evan all of that. A PhD involved the current knowledge to get a BS, most grad students do an undergraduate thesis. Then, by a carefully controlled, independently comprehensive written and defended thesis, the student demonstrates that they have "mastered" their field and is given a Master's Degree. After that a candidate does it all over again with another thesis that is even more tightly controlled and demonstrates that the person has made a significant and lasting contribution to the field. The Masters and Doctoral work are done in conjunction with a full class load and usually working for some current PhD as a sort of galley slave. The realization usually hiuts that post-doc work will just be an extension of the struggle to get a PhD has now morphed into a struggle to do original work that survives peer review and is published and is then cited by others usually hits about the time their PhD thesis is coming together. Most people seeking advanced degrees cannot complete the program and end up with a PhD. It is just too hard.

You are confusing a "college" and a "school". While it is true that universities contain colleges that sp[onsor schools and the university's name is on the diploma, a college produces graduates and a school (i.e. amedical school, a law school, etc) produces diplomates. Read your sheepskin. The easy proof is that a true PhD can teach in any university, college, or school in the world. My wife has taught in medical schools (Emory and Penn), business schools (Wharton), engineering schools (Drexel) and several Tier 1 universities despite the fact that she is a researcher and teaches primarily for the enjoyment. A "school" gradute can only teach in the school they graduated from and only in the country they graduated in. If you look at academic regalia, a BS has one stripe on the sleeve, a MS has two, and a PhD has three. The stripes are black if the PhD is earned and colored if it is anything else. An MD or JD wears a plain black robe, usually with no stripes, though occasionally you see one where the person has an intercalated degree or two where there is an advanced degree such as an MPH earned in addition to the MD. Few MD's try for advanced degrees because the lack of an intercalated degree causes it to be too difficult and time consuming.

More and more schools (not colleges and universities) are now granting unearned "doctorates" that are not worth the paper they are printed on. They are "granted" on the basis of classroom work alone and like other professional degrees are not really recognized outside of the parent school. Double ditto for "online" degrees from degree mills like the U of Phoenix. Duke, for example, not will give you a "PhD in Medicine" for 50,000 and an additional year that is neither in medicine (since the "degree focuses mainly on research methods and has no time for anything else) nor is a PhD. Duke does not recognize its "PhDMed's" outside of the medical school.

And etiquette says something about it as well. When a person received a legitimate PhD, the word "Doctor" becomes part of their legal name, just as "Junior" or a title would in Europe. It is applicable 24/7 and in all situations. Media, when referring to a PhD should use the term "Dr." in every reference to the person, for example. A MD or a JD is, by etiquette, only called "Doctor" when actually in the actual practice of their profession. In fact, lawyers narrow it even further and only call one another "Doctor" when they are testifying in court on a matter of law as a witness. When a p[hysician refers to himself as "Dr. So-and-so" on a Christmas card (we got several of those this year) he is stating that he has a PhD.

It is interesting that in most states, however, a physician is allowed to cut hair without an additional license as long as he obeys the "Sonday-Monday Rule." A PhD would require a separate license.

I didn't make it that way. It is the way it is. It has been that way since medieval times.

Speaking as someone who did her undergrad at Penn, works in a research lab at Penn and as someone who will be attending med school in the fall, some of this is just not true. There are very few universities that offer accelerated MD programs therefore the majority of MDs do indeed have an undergraduate degree (mine in chemistry). And at those schools that do offer the accelerated MD program, they still complete the undergraduate degree while starting med school classes. Therefore it is correct that it's 4 year undergrad, 4 years med school, residency and for most people these days, fellowship. Yes PhD's do a post-doc but they do not get paid minimum wage and they often are not paying back loans since universities actually pay a lot of grad students to get their degree (stipends).

It is not true that most undergrads continuing on to grad school complete a thesis and not all schools do a masters first and then a PhD. At Penn, grad students have prelims after their first or second year depending on their program, which consists of a talk and a short (for some only 3 page written report of their research). Also, they only have classes for the first two years; the majority of their research is conducted after that.

In short I find it extremely insulting for someone to imply that an MD is not just as much work as a PhD. An MD is 100% an advanced degree that requires a lot of time and effort.

@Fly - Yeah, I would. Except there are some huge hurdles:

1)The incident happened over a decade ago - and the only witnesses to the incident were myself and her. I also don't have any way to prove she did it, meaning they can just claim I'm loco and claim I'm out to con them.

2)They retain a lawyer themselves. My mom has one as part of her company (PlayScreen Inc.), and she knows the laws far better than I do, not to mention she is far more financially equipped to initiate a lawsuit than I am. Not to mention, she can also declare me "a danger to self/others" and use that as an excuse to incarcerate ME!

3)She would NEVER pay out on a suit like that. I mean, my mom herself is so greedy that she used me to milk out free handouts via child support from my dad - which she apparently did EVEN AFTER she was ineligible. Apparently, he owes her back payments, which I would love to get my dad's input on.

The only way I could get any proof is a confession and/or a re-enactment, and getting her to do that is downright impossible because she knows me too well.

Financially, she has a much better chance of winning a lawsuit, and I'd walk out with losses no matter what.

She's my only family for miles. I lose her, I pretty much lose a good chunk of my support. She knows this, which is why she knows I won't sue - because she's holding all the cards and she wins either way.

Unless I can get sufficient cause to hold her responsible (as well as a pro bono lawyer who'd believe me), there's no escaping her.

@CrimsonCujo: Wow, that really stinks. I wish I had some words to help you, but I would encourage you to find local groups for ASD adults, there are quite a few and very active ones for people who are as high functioning as you are. It would at least give you some allies and friends!

1) Most physicians do not have an intercalated degree (an undergraduate degree) it is 2 years of pre-med or pre-law and on to 4 years of med school then 3 years of residency

Not true. I'll settle this with evidence

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/education-careers/becoming-physician.page

Where are you getting your info from by the way? 2 years of undergrad then med school? Thats nonsense--there a few accelerated programs, but they are far and few between and certainly not the norm

2) An average non-clinical PhD goes an average of 5 years for a BS (most students aiming for a graduate degree load more heavily), 2-3 years for a MS, and an additional 3-6 for a PhD.

I call BS on that one. I had some classmates in med school that got their PhD as well, and it took them only 2 additional years. Most people do 4 years of undergrad, not 5. If you need an extra year, thats on you, not actually required. Then its only 4 years beyond that to get a PhD

the NYT agrees with me by the way

The average student takes 8.2 years to get a Ph.D

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/03/education/03education.html

So does this govt website

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf06312/

Youll notice that Im using the registered time to degree number--that excludes non-enrolled time (only fair, otherwise numbers could be inflated exponentially)

At any rate, we could quibble about the exact time for post after post. I think I've clearly shown that by any measure, 3X longer for a phd is a gross exaggeration

Not all phds get masters degrees--refutes next paragraph

You are confusing a "college" and a "school". While it is true that universities contain colleges that sp[onsor schools and the university's name is on the diploma, a college produces graduates and a school (i.e. amedical school, a law school, etc) produces diplomates. Read your sheepskin

I read it, and it is THE SAME degree as the future phds get. I cannot make that clearer. If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide it. Otherwise, its just your opinion.

Too many parents are looking for why their kids are hyper as well. Let's forget all the sugary drinks for a moment....

Where do either of you get your information from? Are either of you actively involved in the autism community?
I thought not...

Once again, see #1.6.

Uh, no, because I have healthy teenagers. But I do know people who "suffer" with autism. They have brilliant minds and their focus makes them perfect for the fields they work in. They are happy and well adjusted adults. I have yet to see one of them throw a temper tantrum and demand a "time out" from life. Probably because their parents raised them right and didn't make excuses for them and pushed them to use their "disability" in a positive way.

Kw1223...I wonder if you have never seen them throw a tantrum because you never saw them as a child...wow man, you make no sense what so ever.

Once again, Phil, If you are "actively involved in the autism community", what are your credentials?

So you're saying Aspies outgrow the tantrum throwing? Much like normal children? Amazing.

There is no need for extremes in this argument unless there is some political agenda. There are people all across the autistic spectrum. Some are able to work, some are able to interact in a socially acceptable manner, some can't speak, or bang their heads against a wall or the ground. You can not make blanket statements and be accurate at all. Sure, some parents may take advantage, some doctors may misdiagnose or misprescribe medication, some may need services and are too proud to get them, etc, etc,. So, trying to classify people as all the same because they share a similar diagnosis is ridiculous.

The APA has not even finished the DSM V. It is merely a change in the criteria for diagnosis, as happens frequently (This is the 5th full version of the DSM and there have been many other revisions). It just sounds like people, including the media, are jumping the gun here.

MikeyMike - He has none other than living with a child with the disease. Expert? I think not. First hand experience, obviously so.

"If you are a parent seeking advice on how to help your autistic child, a web search might bring you to a set of instructive videos by Phil Commander. The tutorials cover a wide range of behavioural interventions, using noisemakers and poker chips, which are meant to boost autistic youngsters' ability to respond to other people."

"Commander has no formal psychiatric training, though. He is one of a growing number of laypeople sharing health advice on the popular video-sharing siteYouTube."

From :

Ruken,

You forgot to mention how generation X & Y, ya know the me me me generations, often put thier own needs infront of their kids.

"ohh LITTLE BABY, I am soo sorry you have to go to day care but I have to go workout or go get the latest fashion now---see you later." Oh don't cry I'll pick you up when we are done.""

Or: Think baby crying, mom on FB----"ooh baby I don't have time to play or change your diaper----I must type to my girfriends now--here eat some more nibbles---there you go; happy now" (as mom continues to shove food in front of the baby to keep it quiet happy and fat while she texts and types on FB)-----and how many of you do this??????? Wanna bet too many of you!

Silly shrinks, refrigerator mom theory was debunked years ago. Try going to school or helping out with a child with autism. Most autism moms I know barely have time to get themselves to a doctor for thier annual check up much less have time to obtain the latest fashion etc.

Your insinuations and aspersions on autism parents is disgusting and HIGHLY offensive so please go away. youre not welcome here.

'Too many parents are looking for some medical reason' is a statement I've seen again and again. Where do you get this from? As a parent of a son with 3 Autistic disorders, I'd like to see some research on this topic. Where do you get these ideas?

My son was different from birth. In the newborn nursery his behaviour was markedly different from every other newborn. I did nothing wrong nor is it my fault that he is different. All you who are blaming me for my son's problems might just as well blame me for my ovarian cancer. It makes just as much sense and it's just as thoughtful.

Oh, and anyone who thinks it's attachment disorder? My son's never been in day care for a single day. He's 24 years old, there was no Facebook or any of that crap when he was small.

Peridot-I have stated that I KNOW Autism is real. I am simply of the opinion that MANY parents use it as a way to deflect blame.

@KW1223: I am involved in the community and I have never met ONE parent who used Autism as a way to deflect blame for their children's behavior.

I have, however, met many adults who know nothing at all about autism who make conjecture that this must be so since they see the behaviors of autism as simply a lack of discipline and self control coupled with poor parenting as opposed to realizing that the behaviors are responses to physical problems people who suffer with autism endure.

The ONLY thing that shows is the complete willingness of ignorant people to speak about topics of which they know nothing of value.

Exactly, just say the problem doesn't exist and it will go away. What a crock! Anyone who has dealt with autism on any level knows how terrible it is for the children (and the parents). It's not a behavior issue. It's a real MEDICAL issue. I triple, double dog dare ANYONE to spend a day with a child with autism, and then come out of it with same ignorant statements displayed on this newsvine.

My grandson has a mild form of autism, and we work everyday to support his needs. It's been a real learning experience. (BTW, his mom is a true angel. She has done so much with almost next to nothing. My grandson made the A-B Honor Roll again, too, in mainstreamed classes. And yes, he needs some support, mostly in taking his tests away from distractions, quiet classrooms, speech therapy, etc.)

For those who suffer far worse symptoms--non-verbal, mentally handicapped, sensory issues, communication issues, and on and on have it much worse than we do, and what we have challenges us everyday.

Denying the problems don't make them go away. Just ask any Vietnam War Veteran. PTSD is real, too. Agent orange did a lot of damage. BP still denies the gulf has problems. Yeah, right. Grow up people. This is a terrible scourge, and we need much more help, not less.

That is a silly notion, Eugene. People, including children, either have cancer or they don't. Cancer is a black and white issue. Autism is a gray issue. Almost every child tested is positive on one or more of the criteria, some children meet most or all of the criteria. The determination of where to "draw the line" is a difficult issue, but many of the blowhards commenting on this thread have no clue. That lack of knowledge does not prevent them from expressing an opinion, no matter how useless that opinion may be.

How does it save doctors money? The definition is not a government definition by a definition by the psychiatry field. Would they not make more money if they had more patients?

it wouldn't save doctors money, because insurance companies largely do not cover autism, it would save school districts money, who are obligated to educate all children.

Paul, you are exactly correct.

It would save insurance companies money since many states now mandate coverage by law.

don97524 : There are test now that can show autism, but they are very complex and expensive and the science is very new. Like much of neurology, the science is developing. Also, not unlike "cancer" one term does not define all the variations, each of which is important in its specificity and differentiation from the others. The science is showing that each type can be quite different. So, buddy, you are very wrong. But take heart, you have a lot of company. All the psychiatrists can sit with you.

Autism is NEUROLOGICAL not psychological in origin and the shrinks should be ancillary only to the treatment and not involved in the diagnostic criteria whatsoever. They are out of their depth.

Fly

You are wrong. There are degrees of neurological disorder - the issue is not black and white. There are those who are clearly autistic and those who are clearly not autistic .... and those in between who are somewhat autistic or that a clearly defined prognosis cannot be made. This is not the case with cancer or pregnancy where you either are or are not.

I'm sure you thought that when I talked about "tests" for autism I meant only psychological tests. I did not. All assessments, neurological or psychological, are "tests".

Thank you, David. Over-diagnosing because the definition is too broad is obviously dangerous. How many poor kids and young adults have been mis-diagnosed because the definition was too broad, and treated with harmful drugs that are irrelevant to the true ailment? These people are not being helped.

David and Marilyn, if you read the article it tells us that the data being used is almost 20 years old. Data that doesn't even include specific information that the medical and educational communities have since found to be significant. Contrary to popular belief, medication is not the standard of care for an aspergers or PPD-NOS diagnosis, especially at early intervention, or initial diagnosis. Each case is unique, which is why there are broad definitions in the first place. Without allowing for this "broadness" of definitions, we disallow a myriad of children and adults the support they need to be successful learners, and ultimately, citizens.

reggie19, thanks.

My son was dx'd with Asperger's at age 9. This was the first year the disorder was described in the DSMIV (he's 26 now).

Prior to DSMIV, he had been dx'd with "high functioning autism", by 3 separate psychologists...one guy had studied at Yale in the early 70's when they were just beginning to identify "unusual" kids (who would later be labeled as Asperger). That guy knew what was up with our son - and he was 3.5 years old at the time. (no, naysayers, it wasn't that our son was hyper or acting with need for discipline - though he received discipline when needed - it was because he flapped his hands, couldn't make eye-contact, fixated on ceiling fans or wheels, unusually low hand coordination, walked funny....and was unable to make "normal" human social connections).

The DX of Asperger's (the formal one after its appearance in the DSMIV when he was 9) allowed him access to services at school he never would have received otherwise. It helped his mainstream teachers understand and help him. Without those early interventions, he would NOT have grown into the young man he is today. He is quite eloquent, self-supporting, but still has major social connection issues, but much improved. Medication was NOT indicated, except when teachers practically insisted we try Ritalin to help attention...it was a disaster for my son, making him hyper and anxious where he was not. So reggie is correct: medication is not always recommended for Aspies.

Would he have had the same outcome without the physical therapy and occupational therapy, speech therapy, etc.? Perhaps. But I am damned glad he did have access to those services and am saddened future Asperger children will not if this new concept is implemented.

David 9000 ya hit the nail on the head. Gosh I wish I had a buck for every parent in my neighborhood who stated that they kids was ADHD when they were/are not rather they were just being little kids.

Hence as a former Sped teacher please know that

ADD---usually implies that your child day dreams too much --hence why they are off task. Find a subject they like and they can focus.

ADHD (originally Attention Deficit Disorder Hyperactive) implies that a child literally cannot sit still and focus for more than prayfully a few minutes at a time without getting out of their seat, raising , eyes are in constant movement and playing with their hands or feet , searching in their desk, etc. Sure ritalin can help for these children have opposite body types whereby stimulants calm them down. however a 1/2 cup of black coffee no sugar is just as effective and much less expensive. Also almonds help to calm down their body, brain and bodily movements as well as darker chocolates.

Sadly too many NON ADHD kids are given diagnoses when they are not ADHD----rather simply children who don't have much structure and have not been taught limits/boundaries until punished. Hence keep in mind some attention is better than non at all.

Lastly when Bush got rid of SPECIAL ED LAWS in favor of a ridiculous exam and NCLB he took away resources for ADHD kids to learn and get thier disorder under control------for this is partially what Special Ed teachers did before he came up with that ignorant program that is failing our schools, teachers and children!

David9000, I'm curious. What "poor parenting skills" cause a 2 year old to bang his head on the floor when he becomes emotionally or otherwise overwhelmed? Do all young children bang their heads on the floor or wall and only those children who are blessed with parents who have "good parenting skills" get taught not to bang their heads on something?

So glad sill shrinks is not longer an sped teacher, with an attitude like theirs they would be doing far more harm than good.

Head-banging is a common toddler behavior. My son does it, as have several of my family member's kids, and all have outgrown it- it was a developmental "self-soothe". I would hate to think that my son would be diagnosed with autism because of that. Hardly a sign of anything other than being a toddler who gets frustrated because they can't yet express themself fully in words.

@chas - That's a pretty narrow view. There is much more to Autism (or ADHD) than a child banging their head. 'Poor parenting skills' become an issue when they allow a child to use certain behaviors to get attention and manipulate the parents. Attention getting and manipulation are two of the earliest skills children learn and it's my belief that for some parents, it's just easier to acquiesce and blame it on a physical or mental disorder. Professionals are people to, and can be influenced and mislead by insistent parents, particularly for mental disorders where diagnosis requires extensive observation that falls on the parents. What I've said does not mean that is always the case, but every time it is, it takes away from the care that those children truly experiencing mental disorders will get.

I have two (now grown) kids -- one with Aspergers and one without. I did not parent them differently. In fact, it was clear when my daughter was still in diapers that she was very different from most other kids, did not respond to normal parenting and discipline methods that were effective w/ my son. She also had some physical manifestations, e.g. toe walking, low eye contact, hypervigilance to sound, touch, taste, smell, etc., and others. There are specific symptoms.

@David9000 : You obvioulsy know nothing about autism or Asperger's Syndrome.

@ Silly Shrinks: Thank you for leaving the profession, which does not need people who are so poorly educated in their field. (I also do not believe you were every a certified special education teacher ever, possibly a TA or aid)

@DeeDee-1536131: Head banging of autism includes repetitive banging for hours, to the point of causing injury. If your child does this and you consider them normal, you are a horribly negligent parent and seriously warped. If their head banging is not that severe, your comment is pointless and brings no value to the topic, but thanks for sharing.

@FlyOverMe - Maybe you should become familiar with the Rosenhan study and its follow up studies before you tell me what I know.

Thank you walkwithme: Parents are always coming to tourist attractions wanting special privileges for their "autistic" child. Who is just fine, scammers and always wanting a check from the state or government. Just because they've plopped the baby in front of a television for years as a babysitter now they wonder what's wrong with my kid.

Walkwithme, For someone who has a child with Asperger's, I am surprised to read your comments and judgment of others when you have walked in their shoes. Plus, you most certainly can not diagnose a child simply by looking at them. Not all AS children share the same signs as there are varying degrees of sensory overload, so don't base all AS kids together or assume it is simply bad parenting. I too have a son with Asperger's. He is very well spoken, well behaved and very good student, however his teachers & close family members noticed signs that were not quite right and an early diagnosis & proper care is the key. A person who is unfamiliar with my son would probably not have noticed right away, but the more time spent with him, signs become much more obvious. My son does not go around telling everyone he meets that he has AS, but he will explain it to people if he feels it will help people understand him. He describe his AS as a difference, not a disability and does not want to be treated differently or judged because of it. Pretty wise words for a 9 year old.

Such ignorance, and frankly either you have it as well, or you are lying WalkWithMeInHell. Anyone involved in ASD knows full well one cannot LOOK at a child and tell.

You have issues, obviously, don't take them out on the rest of the ASD community by perpetuating stereotypes, which is why I find your comment without credibility.

Jeanette-767450 - did you have to see some autistic kid get in line front of you at Disney? Wow - special privileges? I would trade those in a minute for a child who didn't have sensory overload problems from sound, smell, light and touch. I also don't know what money you think ANYONE gets from "The State" except in your warped fantasy world. It's pay, pay, pay for everyone I know.

@dustoff

My wife is a certified teacher, although working in a different profession now. Most of her teaching career, she taught in the "special needs" department. She was the first one to notice the "subtle regression" that happens. Our daughter got early intervention from then on. I have spent a LOT of time around other AS kids, in special playgroups etc. I have seen the entire range of children with AS. From super high functioning like my daughter who only occasionally has "social" issues, to a boy who rarely uttered noises other than screams while doing the "gallup" and other stims (but finally started talking around 1st grade). While I am no expert, it is evident to me when kids are "most likely not" AS. The whole issue here is that a significant number kids who would ordinarily be diagnosed as PDD-NOS in normal settings, but the Doctors like to put it under the AS blanket so the kid can get some help from the dock-blocking HMOs. It HAS become the Diagnosis Du Jour, look around and look closer... and you'll see, it is a fact that has been documented again-and-again over the last 10 years since the whole AS craze evolved.

@flyoverme

Sounds like YOU have issues. Sounds like YOU have ignorance. What, you don't think everyone is as educated as you? Read my second post above, are YOU more qualified as my wife? Do YOU live in this communist daycare camp, that we call the state of MA, where lower caste people look for any excuse to pawn their kids off for free afterschool childcare etc? I guess you like your tax dollars, and insurance fees, to fund the surging percentage of people and doctors who suddenly "realize" the kid supposedly has ASD? Sounds like YOU are judging and stereotyping people. Sounds like YOU have lousy reading comprehension. YOUR situation is not my situation, your situation is not other peoples' situation. Get over yourself, and get a life...

I take objection to this statement "kids are "most likely not" AS."

Most kids I know with PDD-NOS exhibit MANY of the signs of classic autism but are missing one or 2 from the check list to actually get the autism dx. Its a little like saying if you don't wheeze you cant have asthma (there is a cough variant). PPD -NOS is in reality a variant of autism.

My youngest is dx autism but if he gets enough speech therapy one day he could be reclassified pdd-nos because he would no longer have the speech delay. Doesn't make him any less a child affected by autism though.

PDD-NOS and "classic"autism should both be covered for benefits and assistance along with Asperger's because they are variants of the same disability. Does the name really matter? Its not a battle of who is the most disabled. There is NO prize for winning that competion. Its time for the ENTIRE ASD community to embrace itself and stop dividing itself. United we can win this battle to get our children the services and supports they need AND Deserve. Divided we are all battling on our own and we alone are not strong enough to overcome the rampant ignorance out there.

@WalkWithMeInHell:

1) your second post came after mine, so no, I hadn't read it.

2) You are still WAY off base - even more so since you participated in so many groups but have no problems letting kids be denied services that help them.

3) You are right about one thing - you are no expert.

When one starts with your endorsement with of changing the DX criteria for ASD since so many parents are 'faking it to get child care' (unbelievable), you are endorsing the removal of services for a tremendous number of kids who have ASD and PDD-NOS to help them become contributing members of society. Have your read the new criteria? Almost all - fully 85% of kids now with ASD -AS will loose services. Was that the percentage in your play group faking it?

I cannot speak for MA, but in most states, it is required to have a medical diagnosis of ASD and then, the school does a secondary evaluation of children to see if their observed and quantified deficits at school are enough to merit services. Many kids with the diagnosis do not end up with services, because they do not meet the second test. So I fail to see your mythical scammers materializing, except perhaps in MA.

The sheer numbers of AS kids who need some support to succeed who will be adversely affected by this is staggering. Just as staggering to me is that you, as a parents whose child has received help, has no problem deny such aid to others simply becasue you don't see their disability as severe enough. I do not for one second believe parents are trying to scam the system for free speech pathology services, OT or social work, but that is what will be lost.

After school care? Really? I have a news flash for you - low income people get free day car already just for being poor, no autism required.

But hey, lets punish all the rest of the kids out there so you don't have to pay more taxes. After all, your kid already got hers, right? And unlike the others, you were not faking it.

I do have a problem; people like you who take help and then decide its ok to deny it to others becasue you think they are trying to take your money. HUGE problem.

Brava!

Bravo! My daughter is on the high end of the spectrum and after 5 years of cognitive and sensation therapy she is mainstreamed and thriving. She has learned to find ways to find ways to keep herself from getting overstimulated and now rarely breaks down in public. Keep your chin up and know that it can get better but it is harder the more profound their symptoms are, good luck.

Curious is she always in a state of self stimulation---tics, tweeks, fingers or feet always in motion??????

Also know that Gluten Free diets do help Autistic children funtion higher!

Gluten Free diets have zero studies proving any benefit for people with autism. Show me one that is peer reviewed and published, please.

Gluten free diets work on people who have gluten intolerance or allergies. Autism is a neurological condition. two totally different body parts involved.

Genenut, you don't know what role the digestive system plays in neurological issues. There is a whole brain/gut theory out there. So let's not rule the digestive system out since we don't understand how it may contribute to autism. It is actually easy to see how a compromised digestive system could create toxins that could cross the blood brain barrier and cause neurological issues. So how exactly are these two "body parts" not connected?

"Gluten free diets work on people who have gluten intolerance or allergies."

How do you know that many autistic individuals with ongoing digestive disorders are not intolerant or allergic to gluten? If they were, wouldn't eliminating gluten help resolve chronic inflammation?

I love how some people think they know what does or does not play a role in autism.

FlyOverMe, my son couldn't tolerate casein or gluten. Many other autistic individuals can not as well. Just because the scientific and medical community has yet to critically examine issues such as these, it doesn't mean that they don't exist.

I love how some people think they know what does or does not play a role in autism.

Like those that continue to post that they know that infant formula caused their son's autism, right Mike? Get off your high horse. We're all for wanting to find out what causes autism, but when people like you post that they know what's happening, and that anyone who suggests otherwise is a moron, it doesn't help the issue at hand.

You might think that the guy influences the expression of autism, but you never think that it could be vice versa, do you? You never post on how the brain/genetic abnormalities that are in autistic individuals could also influence symptoms in the gut. It's never your fault, is it Mike -- it's always someone else that caused your son's autism. You keep posting that you "know" that infant formula caused your son's autism, and here you are saying that you "love how some people think they know"...pot calling the kettle black.

"You might think that the guy influences the expression of autism, but you never think that it could be vice versa, do you?"

I never heard of autism guy whom influences autism expression. Is there also an autism girl that does as well?

"You never post on how the brain/genetic abnormalities that are in autistic individuals could also influence symptoms in the gut. It's never your fault, is it Mike -- it's always someone else that caused your son's autism."

No, I post about how excessive oxidation of infant formula long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids increase the half life of protein expression and dysregulate synaptic vesicle turnover. I discuss how the proteasomal degradation of damaged proteins may be inhibited by adducts formed on lysine residues that may contribute to aggregation and plaque formation.

These issues are caused by post translational modifications. You know Penguin, changes made to proteins via lipid oxidation. But feel free to list the genetic abnormalities discovered that affect the brain and gut that are implicated with digestive disorders and autism.

BTW, there are many other people on Newsvine. You don't need to just stalk me.

I never heard of autism guy whom influences autism expression. Is there also an autism girl that does as well?

You know, Mr. Perfect, if you're going to criticize me for a typo, where "T" is right next to "Y", you might want to not make a grammatical mistake ("who" vs. "whom") while doing it. Then, after failing to use it properly, you then used "that" to describe the girl, when "who" should have again been used. Is a guy a person but a girl is just a thing? I'd also throw in "have" between "I" and "never", as in "I have never heard". But man, you sure nailed me for a simple typing error!

No, I post about how excessive oxidation of infant formula long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids increase the half life of protein expression and dysregulate synaptic vesicle turnover. I discuss how the proteasomal degradation of damaged proteins may be inhibited by adducts formed on lysine residues that may contribute to aggregation and plaque formation.

I love how you just copy this from an actual scientist and claim you understand what it means. I also love how none of this relates to autism, yet you think that it does.

These issues are caused by post translational modifications

Yet you can't even describe this simple term, or how genetics would influence these modifications. You know, there are a lot of "post-translational modifications" that occur via genetics in the body every day. Why is this only exclusive to your theory on autism?

But feel free to list the genetic abnormalities discovered that affect the brain and gut that are implicated with digestive disorders and autism.

It's called co-morbidity. Many genetic disorders have co-morbid symptoms (Down is not just trisomy, but also has distinct morphological symptoms, for instance). So perhaps it's similar to lactose-intolerance, wherein its a genetic reason that they have stomach pain because they can't digest certain foods that well. But that doesn't fit the idea that you've got stuck in your brain, so that can't be true...or can it?

I'm not stalking you, just trying to stop your misinformation campaign using actual facts, not your allegations from failed lawsuits.

"I love how you just copy this from an actual scientist and claim you understand what it means. I also love how none of this relates to autism, yet you think that it does."

Really? Maybe you should read the autism publication that I have posted several times that identifies protein damage via peroxidation of DHA. I assure you that it relates to autism.

"Yet you can't even describe this simple term, or how genetics would influence these modifications. You know, there are a lot of "post-translational modifications" that occur via genetics in the body every day. Why is this only exclusive to your theory on autism?"

Proof that you do not understand post translational modifications of proteins. Read about it, and when you understand what you are talking about, take a look at what you had written. I might as well argue with a lamp over the subject.

Maybe you should read the autism publication that I have posted several times that identifies protein damage via peroxidation of DHA. I assure you that it relates to autism.

Nowhere in this piece does it state that autism was caused by the DHA...just that there was protein damage found in autistic individuals. You must be reading it through fogged up glasses. This is not a cause-effect study. This is simply a "hey look at what is found in autistic individuals -- is this a clue?" piece. NOWHERE does it suggest that DHA causes autism. Might want to re-read what was actually on the page vs. what you thought in your head.

Proof that you do not understand post translational modifications of proteins. Read about it, and when you understand what you are talking about, take a look at what you had written. I might as well argue with a lamp over the subject

So you can't define what occurs, what the term means, etc. so you try to bully those who question you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttranslational_modification

Other modifications, like phosphorylation, are part of common mechanisms for controlling the behavior of a protein, for instance activating or inactivating an enzyme.

Post-translational modifications of proteins happen EVERY DAY in EVERY PERSON. It's how our bodies operate. The fact that post-translational modifications of proteins occurs is not proof that DHA causes autism, Mike. Enzymes are activated or inactivated via modifications daily -- do they cause autism? Nope.

You might want to actually understand what you copy from an article before you post here and debate a biochemist.

Again, why is this exclusive to your autism theory if it happens in every person?

Really Penguin?

"Post-translational modifications of proteins happen EVERY DAY in EVERY PERSON. It's how our bodies operate. The fact that post-translational modifications of proteins occurs is not proof that DHA causes autism, Mike. Enzymes are activated or inactivated via modifications daily -- do they cause autism? Nope."

"You might want to actually understand what you copy from an article before you post here and debate a biochemist."

Oh I forgot you're a biochemist. OK then.

How do DHA hydroperoxides affect protein signaling? What covalent modifications are made to what specific residues that alter protein expression? How does this result in accumulation and aggregation of damaged proteins?

How do DHA hydroperoxides affect the half life of protein expression? How does this impact synaptic vesicle turnover?

Are DHA hydroperoxides neurotoxic? Are they found in increased levels of patients with neurodegenative disease?

How does altering a triacylglycerol structure affect its stability to oxidation?

Please Penguin, use your infinite biochemistry knowledge to explain these questions.

I gave you the Wikipedia entry that shows that "post-translational modifications" are throughout our body. Just by stating that they occur, you're telling us that they're bad. Sorry, that's not the case.

No one is claiming that biochemists know every single bodily reaction to every single chemical in the world, Mike. Food, chemicals, radiation, even mood & physical activity (endorphins, anyone?) -- all of these affect how our bodies translate proteins. Cellular (i.e. nuclear) DNA, mitochondrial DNA (different than cellular/nuclear DNA), tRNA, mRNA, rRNA...all of these are different portions of the translation of DNA into proteins. Your pituitary gland's secretions affect translation and expression. Lots of things do. The fact that DHA, etc. affects translation does NOT mean that autism is caused by it, nor does it mean that it does anything bad.

Again, your allegation was that formula created your son's autism. None of your ramblings above have anything to do with your initial allegation. Just because YOU don't understand all of the biological effects of chemicals does not mean that they cause autism.

Prove the mechanism to autism from these chemicals, or quit b*tching and moaning. You've made so many false assertions (like you had done the studies when you hadn't, like the lawsuits would prove your theory when they didn't, like the death from formula would prove to be from formula contamination when it wasn't, etc...the list goes on) that no one believes your statements. Hell, you can't even get someone who agrees with you on the witness stand to testify to what you're saying.

YOU HAVE NO PROOF OF FORMULA CREATING AUTISM -- can you just admit it already?

Mike, you're lawsuit was only in regards to your son. Please stop playing the "I'm doing it for the greater good" card. You sued to get money you felt you "deserved" for your son's condition. Sorry, but if you really wanted to do it for "the greater good", you wouldn't have gone about it by suing the one company.

It's great that you have questions. Unfortunately for you, we don't award money in lawsuits based on "that guy has a good question". We award it for proving injury. You have yet to prove that your son was injured by the infant formula, which is why the judge reprimanded you for wasting the court's time with two frivolous lawsuits, and why the next time, you'd be barred from ever filing again. Go prove your case or go away. My prediction: You will continue to post here spouting off your nonsensical theory, but refuse to file another lawsuit because you know that you've got no legs to stand on. My request: File or shut up. Can't wait for that "documentary" you're making...when will it be ready?

Forget about my lawsuit as your diversion to avoid answering the questions above. But then again, you would have to understand the science in order to respond. Should I ask them again? Why bother.

Okay, I'll answer your questions if you'd be so kind as to answer mine.

No, I do not fully comprehend all of the science behind DHA, ARA, and infant formula. No, you do not either. But that does not mean it's inherently evil or causes autism.

The fact that you want us to "forget about [your] lawsuit" is preposterous. You claimed that the lawsuit would justify your concerns, and that it would prove that what you're saying is true. You got thrown out of court twice. That is evidence in this discussion that you are wrong. Forget about your lawsuit? No way, Jose. You were the one that brought it up as "proof", remember?

So what I said up above was true. Now you'll say "he said he doesn't fully understand the science, so don't believe him"! Problem is, you're just parroting what other people have studied, and what's worse is that you're using it out-of-context as some ridiculous proof of your assertion. Again, just because somebody found these altered proteins DOES NOT mean that they're either bad for you or cause autism. But I digress...you'll go to your grave thinking your son was harmed by something that you haven't proven to be anything more than an innocuous modification in your body, just as I showed we all have.

You can't comprehend correlation vs. causation. You think that anything that shows up in autistic people must be the cause rather than a co-morbid condition (all, that is, except genes...you're convinced that your genes could not have contributed to his autism exclusively, even in spite of the genetic research done to-date).

Why should we continue to acknowledge you when you try to say your lawsuits do not relate to the topic -- you're the one who hijacks every board on autism and relates it back to your complaints and lawsuits!

Again, I've answered your question. It's now your turn to answer mine. I fully expect that you will use what I said above to try and prove that I could not possibly understand the science behind what you're posting. Prove me wrong, Mike. Answer my questions and avoid that ad hominem attack you are aching to make. Time to put up or shut up. You're a joke.

No you haven't answered my questions. That's because you claim to understand the science but do not.

Penguin, the professor that I speak with and share information knows that I understand the science the we discuss. You claim I do not understand it.

Answer the questions that I have posted. They are intimately involved with my theory that you are trying to discredit.

Discredit my theory with proven science. Answer my questions above .

No you haven't answered my questions. That's because you claim to understand the science but do not.

Man, I am spot on today. I posted that you would do this. Here's my quote:

Now you'll say "he said he doesn't fully understand the science, so don't believe him"!...I fully expect that you will use what I said above to try and prove that I could not possibly understand the science behind what you're posting.

I love how you think you understand the science, but I keep pointing out how you misinterpret the studies you think you're using correctly. It's laughable how ignorant you are.

Discredit my theory with proven science.

Again, WHAT IS YOUR THEORY???? You keep changing it as I question you. First it was "autism is caused by infant formula ingredients DHA & ARA", then it's "the palm olein gives bowel problems" and now it's something else. DEFINE YOUR POSITION. You filed a lawsuit claiming autism from infant formula. Two, in fact. I disproved that one easily. No one is disputing that some children have difficulty digesting some ingredients. WHAT'S YOUR POINT? What hypothesis will you be testing with this professor? What's the basis for your "documentary"?

It's hard to hit a target that you keep moving, then tell me I'm not answering your questions. Ad hominem...you attempt to discredit me by making me jump through hoops and saying I "just don't understand". Your game is tired and old. You've got nothing, so you just attack me. Pathetic.

Define your position/theory, and I'll answer. You can't even keep on a consistent message...how am I supposed to answer you?

"Man, I am spot on today. I posted that you would do this. Here's my quote:

Now you'll say "he said he doesn't fully understand the science, so don't believe him"!...I fully expect that you will use what I said above to try and prove that I could not possibly understand the science behind what you're posting."

You knew I would call you on your lack of comprehension of the science? Wow, that's genius Penguin.

"Again, WHAT IS YOUR THEORY???? You keep changing it as I question you. First it was "autism is caused by infant formula ingredients DHA & ARA", then it's "the palm olein gives bowel problems" and now it's something else"

I explained the structure of palm olein because it exerts adverse effects on digestion. These adverse effects are due to the alterations in the triacylglycerol structure. I had to show you that altering fatty acid positioning among the glycerol backbone of TAGs has been scientifically proven to exert adverse effects. Since the DHA and ARA TAGs are also structurally altered, they may exert adverse effects as well.

See, I have to explain science that has already been proven to you. You obviously do not understand why I gave palm olein as an example of an ingredient that should not be allowed in formulas. Some infants may experience serious digestive issues from palm olein. Parents and pediatricians are unware that these issues are a result of palm olein ingestion. Infants may be misdiagnosed as lactose intolerant.

So I haven't changed my position. You're just incapable of understanding why altered structures of fatty acid TAGs shouldn't be allowed in formulas.

Now you can answer my questions about DHA-

How do DHA hydroperoxides affect protein signaling? What covalent modifications are made to what specific residues that alter protein expression? How does this result in accumulation and aggregation of damaged proteins?

How do DHA hydroperoxides affect the half life of protein expression? How does this impact synaptic vesicle turnover?

Are DHA hydroperoxides neurotoxic? Are they found in increased levels of patients with neurodegenative disease?

How does altering a triacylglycerol structure affect its stability to oxidation?

Penguin, don't sidestep the questions. They are involved with my theory. Provide the answers and disprove that altered structures of DHA TAGs will exert adverse effects on neurodevelopment.

You knew I would call you on your lack of comprehension of the science? Wow, that's genius Penguin.

I knew you'd try to post another ad hominem attack in the line of "he can't answer my ridiculous questions, so he must be wrong". I could post the same questions (and have, btw) about genetic research, and you can't answer THOSE questions. Now that we've established that this kind of ridiculous logic does not win a debate, how about you move on to establishing whatever theory you think you're on to.

Since the DHA and ARA TAGs are also structurally altered, they may exert adverse effects as well.

So your logic is that because SOMETHING ELSE structurally altered has effects on the digestive system, that other chemicals have bad effects as well? ARE YOU SERIOUS??? This is about as whacked out as anything I've seen from you! You're now basing your whole argument not on the chemicals themselves, but on structural changes in OTHER chemicals? Wow, just wow.

How about that logic with trans-fats. We have structurally altered fats to NOT be in the trans- formation, so would that exert bad effects on digestion? NOPE. It actually HELPS! Trying to fit a function to a chemical without actually examining the chemical itself is not just asinine, it is borderline psychotic. So if I attach a methyl group to one chemical and it causes a bad reaction, does that mean that attaching a methyl group to any chemical causes a bad reaction? NO, OF COURSE NOT!

If this is your theory, it's no wonder you got thrown out of court multiple times!

Some infants may experience serious digestive issues from palm olein. Parents and pediatricians are unware that these issues are a result of palm olein ingestion. Infants may be misdiagnosed as lactose intolerant.

And how does this have anything to do with the price of rice in China? Nothing about this screams to me "oh, DHA and ARA must be bad too"!

You're just incapable of understanding why altered structures of fatty acid TAGs shouldn't be allowed in formulas.

Wow, your whole theory is based upon "if we alter any chemical structure, it must exert bad effects on the body". I didn't realize it was so ridiculous of a theory. My apologies. Maybe I'll talk slower in shorter words for you. Let me have a go at it (see if you understand this):

You do not have any proof that what you write is true. It does not matter how many questions (too big a word?) you ask me about other people's papers or try to make yourself seem smart by writing big words. The point is you do not know that DHA or ARA hurt you. Just because one chemical change does something does not necessarily (big word, sorry) mean that it causes the same or worse when done to another chemical.

Provide the answers and disprove that altered structures of DHA TAGs will exert adverse effects on neurodevelopment.

I love how you try to shift the burden to my shoulders. It's not up to me to disprove your assertion, it is up to you to prove that what you say is true.

Have you done any studies to prove this on DHA or ARA? No

Have you done any literature research that shows this to be true? No.

All you have is "chemical A does something when modified, so chemicals B and C must do something when modified and we must stop the use of B and C". That is hardly anything near scientific research.

How does altering a triacylglycerol structure affect its stability to oxidation?

I don't know and neither do you. This is a broad generalization and one answer would not fit to all TAGs. You can't make blanket statements about chemicals.

How do DHA hydroperoxides affect protein signaling?

I don't know and neither do you.

How do DHA hydroperoxides affect the half life of protein expression?

I don't know and neither do you.

This is a fun game, isn't it? You try to state that you "know" things and I tell you that you don't have the proof to provide blanket generalizations for the questions you pose.

Again, I'll betcha that the affects of these chemicals are based on your genetic makeup. If I took formula as a kid, why don't I have these conditions? I'd love for you to answer that...but you won't.

Agreed 100%.

From my understanding (cousin with Aspergers), it is similar in many ways to autism. I'd imagine there are different degrees of Aspergers as well. My cousin is unable to function independently. I often think that is because his parents say he has a disability anytime he does something wrong (now 23) rather than holding him accountable...but I don't know for sure if handling this way is bad.

Bookem, I don't have answers, but if your cousin's parents are sheltering him from social interaction, that is a mistake. Aspergers is not a disability, until it is treated as one, and it is also not a good idea to publicly acknowlege it. My father ensured I did not know of my condition until I figured it out for myself. He has Aspergers as well, and has a phd in psychology, even so he won't say the word. He simply refers to it as being different.

This change in diagnostic criteria has really has nothing to do with the government. The APA is an independent organization and are re-defining the criteria based on research data and experience. No one can "fix" the disorder, rather can teach some people how to do things such as pick up on social queues, develop communication skills, and learn how to control behavioral outbursts. There are a lot of people who have co-occurring disorders as well, such as an intellectual impairment that affects one's ability to understand and adapt.

JBAbbott - I don't in any way discount your experiences, but you obviously have abilities that many others do not since not all are created equally. So, when it is discussed about working with folks with these abilities, it is not the people who are capable of helping themselves who are the concern. I know and work with plenty of people on the autistic spectrum and each person is their own person. Some had great parents and can't function, some had bad parents and are able to fend for themselves.

Danno - There could be several issues at play which may include a combination of excusing your cousin's behavior, as well as specific behaviors associated with his diagnosis. As much as possible, the best teacher is natural consequences. For example; If he spends all his money, he has no money to go to the movies. A natural consequence applies to anyone - and is how we tend to learn the most. Often times, depending upon the specifics, it is best just to ignore outbursts if the intent of those outbursts is to gain something, avoid something, or seek attention. Once these behaviors stop working to get what he wants, the behavior will become extinguished. There's a lot to it though and everyone is an individual so would need to taper training and behavior support to the individual's needs.

Spokane, I agree. I may have been a bit insenstive in my last post. Something I will always need to work on.

JB - no problem at all, and I do tend to agree that there are many closed minds out there.

Regards -

You are all aware, of course, that under this new DX folks like you would get NO services from any school, ever, and no coverage for therapy in your life, ever.

If you had any considerations in school to help you succeed, then you benefited from the DX that will be denied to others.

With all due respect, there is no scientific test for many psychiatric disorders, as well as a wide ranging set of symptoms.

This is why their definitions are in flux.

We could wipe out brain tumors if we just lop off people's heads.

We could wipe out 3/4 of the nonsense on the Newsvine if the was an intelligence test you had to pass before you could post.

Seems like they ought to leave autism alone and deal with fake diseases like 'fibromyalgia' for instance if they are looking to cut costs

Three cheers for MikeyMike -- You are so right. ADHD, ADD, Autism, Asperger are all over-diagnosed BUT if the child/children involved have a legitimate diagnosis then treatment is needed. Having 3 (now grown) children with ADHD I know it is no fun == and if those that think all problems with these children are due to "poor parenting" then he/she needs to be exposed to a group of children who have been diagnosed by a legitimate psychiatrist/psychologist and are being properly treated == then and only then can he/she speak with any knowledge.

Laura - where do you get off saying that "fibromyalgia" is a fake disease -- do you know anyone who has that diagnosis?? or anyone who claims to have the disease which has not been diagnosed by a physician?? Again, let's not speak until we know!!!

Wow, I wonder what the definition of stupidity and ignorance is. Clearly, the psychiatrists could use many of the posters on this vine as case studies. Let's say depression doesn't exist, too. How about split personalities. Sociopathy? Psychopathy? Stockholm syndrome? Pick your poison. We can deny each and everyone of them. Does that make them go away? People need to do some homework before they start spouting off things of which they know nothing. And the people who researched this study used data collected from 20 years ago. How sad.

I sincerely wish that all people who deny the existence of fibromyalgia have an out break of it for just one week. One week only. Their tune will change dramatically.

Zapper as a former Shrink, please know that Harvard tried to do just that years ago yet they failed.

The head of their Psych dept tried to claim that there was no science of basic psychology but various depts of relativity (child psych, family psych, developmental, cognitive, etc)------YEt pathetically the ass forgot that you cannot have dept arms without a basic nucleous!

Sorry.

Former shrink, former special education teacher, is there any profession you have not tried Sally, and found deficient?

Autism is a neurological condition, so thankfully, psychiatry is somewhat irrelevant, other than deciding that they have the right to decide who has autism.

Apparently several of them are employed at Yale.

I wonder if definitions aren't originally driven by the pharmaceuticals pushing a new drug...like "restless leg syndrome". Then after all the hoopla is over, and enough statistics have been gathered, a more proper definition can be applied.

It grew so much because parents realized they could get a check for it.

Where can you get those checks? Would love to know. Since my son's diagnosis, we have spent tons of money on weekly social skills sessions and occupational therapy visits, none of which was covered by insurance. This is not only expensive, but time-consuming for our family.

I appreciate that there are differences of opinion regarding the rising rate of diagnosis and how to best treat those diagnosed, but there is no need to insult parents and children trying to deal with some of the issues leading to the diagnosis.

Marilyn, you also left out the "doctors" who profit from this. Nothing like locking you patient in for the next upteen years. Somebody got to make that car payment.

Excuse me, Jeanette, but my son has autism and I most certainly do NOT "get a check for it." Thanks to his diagnosis, our insurance is required to pay for his therapy, although we still spend a small fortune in copays. Believe me, I would pretty much cut off my right arm right now if it would take this disorder away from my son so he could live a normal life... so far he is nonverbal, barely makes eye contact and spends a great deal of time staring at spinning objects. Seriously, the ignorance about this disorder blows my mind. Who would possibly WANT this diagnosis for their child??

Jeanette-767450: Ok lady - people are asking, where do we get those checks? Come on, you have made the comment several times now but have yet to tell anyone where we go to get the checks.

Maybe you should stop posting your private anger issues in public where the rest of us have to deal with reality.

are you diagnosed with PDD-nos? how old r u ?

Really? I would sure like to know where they live. My nephew has autism. His parents couldn't get any help for years. His mother finally committed suicide. His father retired early to take care of him. After my brother-in-law had his second heart attack the state (PA) finally stepped in and said my nephew couldn't return to the home. He was 11 at the time. Couldn't talk, couldn't dress himself, couldnt even wipe himself after going to the bathroom. Now, at 16 he's actually talking, getting along with others, it's amazing.

Sure, my family probably didn't do everything right but they did try.

Oh, btw, they get NO money for just having an autistic child.

Families with autistic children do not receive government money just for having autistic child. The child does receive services from the school system paid for by the state. The services (for behavior, appropriate education etc.) end at 21 years of age.

joe1022joe...you have to be kidding me. You shouldn't open your mouth until you are sure you know what you are talking about. People keep talking about autistic childrens families getting a check. Do you actually know any of these families that are supported by the government for having an autistic child? I have an autistic child. He barely speaks, hurts himself often, doesn't play or talk to others...since he was diagnosed I have had to reduce my work schedule so that I can be a part of his therapies and doctors appointments. We have cut out all expenses we can to afford the decrease in pay we have taken because of all the extra time it takes to care for an autistic family member. I am active in the "autism community" and I have never heard of families being handed a check!!!!!

Respectfully Margaret, I disagree with you. As several people who actually have Asperger's or ASD have posted up above, this tightening of the diagnostic criteria is a good thing.

The best thing it will do is put the final nail in the phony 'causal link' between thimerasol mercury in vaccines and autism. Now, this is not to say that mercury exposure might not possibly cause something, but it doesn't cause autism. That much has been proven repeatedly in extremely rigorous double blind tests.

By focusing more clearly on what is and what is not autism, if there is indeed a genuine risk from vaccines it should be able to be appropriately detected.

Respectfully Mikey, my comment had nothing to do with the cause of autism, rather the "definition". Having had to hire a lawyer and fight to get the appropriate services for my son every step of the way I all too aware of the obstacles put in the way of anything deemed an entitlement be it by the State, the school system or an insurance company. Even if Dr. Volkmar has the best of intentions - which I seriously doubt - the results of him "tightening" up the diagnostic criteria will only be yet another tool to deny services to those who desperately need it.

I'd vote you up twice if I could. Brava.

Thanks Zapper45701.

thank you! i've been reading over these posts and i cannot believe the hate and ignorance. until you have had a child with an autistic spectrum disorder or taught several, you really can't speak to what it's like. if you aren't a doctor, then you aren't much of an expert either.

as to the person who said fibromyalgia is a fake disease, then please take it from me so i can stop feeling all this fake pain and stop taking all these meds and seeing a chiropractor once a week.

The government knows what caused this mess...

Let me guess. Thimerasol mercury in vaccines? Wrong. The phony British study which makes that claim and which led to all this highly publicized hysteria focused around certain a telegenic blonde with an autistic child, has been thoroughly debunked and disproved through rigorous double blind testing numerous times.

MikeyMike--Oakcreekrose never said a word about thimerasol. Autism is a horrible thing and it should not be taken lightly by anyone. Ridiculing someone for their point of view does not help the situation.

However, it should be noted that the information used to review this autism study comes from the same era of the thimerasol flap. Oakcreekrose would have a valid leg to stand on if she were to have made such a statement. It would then be apples to apples.

Clearly, we need more CURRENT data and study. Denying the problems will not make them go away.

No kidding!! Finally a voice of reason. You know what else has been rising in the past so many years?

- The amount of chemicals in our foods (including kids' foods and formula)

- the amount of antibiotics and other crap doctors prescribe unnecessarily to young children whose bodies and brains are still developing

- the amount of sugar and artificial colors/flavors our kids are ingesting daily

- the amount of time our kids spend in front of the TV/video games instead of playing outside

- Cancer

- Diabetes

- Obesity

I could go on and on but these disturbing tends are obvious to anyone who is willing to pay attention. Google these things and you will see that there are in fact correlations. This is not to say that "valid" cases of autism spectrum disorders do not exist. This is to say that they are indeed overly broadly diagnosed and before we prescribe drugs to a kid who can't sit still we ought to "prescribe" that he go for a run around the block a few times. That's what my husband's mother did when he was younger, and guess what - he is a perfectly normal college-educated, attention-paying adult.

@MikeyMike: Please, cite your source or study showing that autism is being inappropriately diagnosed. Otherwise, its simply your unscientific opinion.

Let me guess, you think Temple Grandin was faking it.

here's one:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-increase-in-autism-diagnoses-two-hypotheses/

here's another:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080408112107.htm

Those took about 10 seconds to find. Try doing some research yourself. If you want the "scholarly" type of peer reviewed paper, consult the foot notes of either of these articles.

@MikeyMike: I read both articles, neither of which support your contention that ASD is being inappropriately diagnosed.

Did you even bother to read them or are they simply over your head?

The first one is refuting the correlation between vaccines and autism by showing that the population prior to the advent of so many vaccines was mis-diagnosed as severe language disorder when it should have been autism. The point being that autism is not caused by vaccines but the increased incidence is due more likely to proper categorizing of severe language disorders as ASD.

The second study is just a recap of the same concept, again nothing about incorrect diagnosis being made now, but more that advances have been made in correct understanding.

I hardly know what to say about such stretching of words to make your still invalid point.

Do what ever you can to ensure your child is not labled. Don't share the information, if possible even with your child. Don't send the therapy, learn to do that yourself, use social interaction when ever possible. Give your child time, and plenty of freedom. Growth and maturity will take care of the rest.

@JBAbbott: What in the world could possibly make you think that is appropriate for someone without knowing anything about the severity of their condition? The basis of autism has NOTHING to do with maturity or growth.