Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comTiny preemie -- one of smallest survivors -- going home
Seeded on Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:01 AM EST (msnbc.com)
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meatball problems.
sorry had to do it. their last name is guido lol
This was one of those non-human fetuses that pro-abortionists are always talking about.
JK,
Everyone was a fetus; then we developed into humans.
This baby has developed significantly from when it was delivered. It's like comparing an acorn to an oak tree.
EngEsq: Comparing a non-human plant to a heart pumping blood is absolutely ridicualous. Life is in the blood, not the egg or the sperm alone. The godless will always try and justify being perverted, and in their arrogant pride will not admit the truth.
It amazes me that the "intelligent" say there is life on Pluto, or on some rock from Mars, but they cannot recognize it in a woman's womb at conception. Tell a woman who had a miscarriage it was an acorn, and see what she thinks about it.
Abortion is not needed except in the case of a womans life being at stake. Even then the decision should be the woman's, and the man's should also be taken into consideration but only by the woman. Many women have known they would die in child birth but continued the pregancy and died.
Abortion is not contraception. Conception has already been accomplished. Abortions are not necessary, but I would not be for making them illegal either, for the above mentioned reason. But 99.9% of abortions are NOT done because the women's life or health are in jeopardy.
RB....
You abort a fetus, you have a baby, don't confuse things with a time table to decide when fetus and when baby.
How could a God let bad things happen, how could a women/men kill a baby, sorry fetus.
An embryo is "alive", so are the cells in a tree, acorn and my nose. Life is not the issue... the issue is when person-hood begins.
If personhood is based upon having a complete set of human DNA, then removal of an apendix would be murder.
If person-hood is human DNA and independent survival, then abortion is ok.
If person-hood is based upon organism complexity, then abortion is ok until some point of complexity. That is where I stand. It is based on an understanding of biology and development. And having blood and autonomic muscular contractions is not what makes a person.
Someone else, life is in the egg and the sperm. Without one or the other you can't have life. My belief is that if you want to not have abortions then men can't kill their sperm. This means no nocturnal emissions, not self emissions or any emissions where the sperm doesn't have the intent on reaching an egg. That way if someone tells a woman she can't do something to her own body then men can't either. It seems only fair. As for contraception then that shouldn't be allowed either because if the sperm can't reach the egg then life can't be made. Seems only fair that you can't have your cake and eat it too. I mean if we look at this in a sensible light, if you don't want abortions 99.9% illegal then you should go all the way a make it so that condoms are illegal as well as all birth control and any emissions that don't have an egg as its final destination. I think if you put it in that light it seems a little silly. But if we are going to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies as they see fit then we should go all the way with it, including men.
Once you start arguing "personhood," you've stopped using science as your evidence and started using philosophy. You're also joining pretty dubious company, like the "scientiests" that said the slant of your nose to your forehead depended on your level of personhood, thus making it acceptable to enslave Africans because they are "lesser" humans.
A fetus to a baby is a level of development, just like baby to toddler or teenager to adult. A fetus is a living human being, just at an early stage of development. "Personhood" is a concept we invented, and people only lose their status as a person because we say they do.
Waaaaay not interested in the abortion thread. So how about if I change the subject a little.
A couple of months ago I had dinner with a PhD health economist. I am not an academic, but my wife is a PhD gerotologist, so I get exposed to a lot of her cohort.
During the dinner he remarked that everyone hates health economists. I was surprised at the statement and asked why. He used, as an example, severely premature babies. Everyone loves babies, it is hard-wired into their psyche. But if one looks at the health care system as a whole and objectively at how the services are delivered, there is a very serious case to be made that serious "preemies" divert so much neonatal and pediatric resources that they are actually a reason why the United States has such an incredibly dismal infant mortality rate compared to even the developing world and the worst in the developed world. He said that when you study such a situation and publish on it, you are perceived as cruel and heartless, even though you are really expressing concern that several may be sacrificed that one might live.
It was a difficult thing to think about.
Since some Pro-lifers have chosen to make this about abortion, let's talk abortion. I love how most Pro-lifers are also right wingers who are anti-welfare. I would say AT LEAST 80%(this is a number made up off the top of my head like most statistics) of abortions are performed because parents would be financially unable to take care of the child. And then the pro-lifers come back with, Adopt no Abort. I recently saw a ridiculous ad by a New York state group of pro-lifers that asserts 50 million americans are not with us because they were aborted. If they had all been put up for adoption, maybe 5 million of those babies would have been adopted. And the other 45 million, what happens to them? Well, either the state would pay the parents that kept the babies a small amount of welfare, or they are put in foster homes. In my state, the state pays foster homes $1500/month PER CHILD! You tell me that in this era of overpopulation and budget shortfalls, that we could take care of all of these unwanted children! Now, to let you all know I have a beautiful daughter, my wife and I chose life, but we are firm believers in Pro-choice. It is a choice, and it needs to be out there. Unless you are an adoptive parent, or a foster parent not receiving any state aid, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS PRO-LIFE GARBAGE!
I SO do not want to comment on your ridiculous statement, but I will. First of all, no one is "pro-abortion", and you know it. That's absurd. Secondly, those of us who have the notion that we have the right to our own bodies do not "always talk about abortion". We have other things to do. For instance, we'd like to save the planet from destruction by over-population. Did it ever occur to you that we are running out of natural resources?! Of course it didn't. Wake up.
My granddaughter was born at 24 wks. 10 yrs ago. Today she is doing fine, she is very smart and hasn't had problems developmentally or physically.
You beat the curve then. I hope this child does the same.
You still paying the half million off?
That's very encouraging. I have a "24 week" great granddaughter that is doing well. 1 lb. 7 oz at birth and is now over 3 lbs. She's still a couple of months from going home, but we are all thrilled with her continuing progress.
i am glad the child is alive, however, who is paying the medical bills? hospitals are not cheap for simple problems, so what was the final cost of the baby's first hospital stay?
RB
It's part of research.....that all may benefit...
Who is paying for all of this????? My twin grandsons that have regrassive Autism can't even get the help that they need....don't get me wrong, i am glad the baby lived....but at what cost?????
wow. and i know for a fact there are state programs to help with autism, i just enrolled my 9 WEEK PREEMIE SON in a program and autism is included as well as mental retardation, spina bifida and other developmental issues....
Who cares at what cost? So what you're saying is that if it's expensive to save a life we should just let babies die, even if we have the means to save them? So you think only the rich should be allowed to save their babies lives?
And if your grandchildren have been unable to find help for Autism, I'm going to say that their parents haven't been looking hard enough. There is help for autism all over the place. Try getting help for your kid if he happens to have special needs other than Autism and see how hard you have it! I resent how much help there is for Autistic kids sometimes. My own son has just as many needs for therapy and special education as an austistic kid does, but because he has something else he tends to not "qualify" for services. I call BS.
who cares the cost! a child was born and saved! I'd rather have my money go to that then someone abusing the system!
Delilah, how about you STFU.
That is SICK!
Complaining about how much it cost? What do you spend your money on -- HDTV?
There just are no words. At least none I can say on Newsvine.
What a bizarre and inept thread. The idea here is discussion and the exchange i=of ideas, not "STFU" and "That is SICK!" and "BS". It is a very good thing that someone questions what it costs and who foots the bill. Ignoring such issues is how this country got in the financial pickle it is in (with very little to show for it, I might add.) Ignoring the same issues in health care is how we ended up paying more than twice what any other country's taxpayers pay per capita for health care, but only covering about half of our population. Not paying attention is how we ended up with the worst infant mortality rate in the developed world and about middle of the pack for the developing world.
Asking questions is a good thing. Slamming the peson who asked them shows a lack of critical thinking skills and a serious lack of intellectual curiosity. When a question makes you uncomfortable, it is usually a sign that it is a question that needed asking.
shayz, there is a program IN YOUR STATE. Not all states have such programs, and among those states that have them, the rules vary on who qualifies and what aid is available.
Try the school system.
If you're in a big enough school district, they have special day programs for kids who have all sorts of learning issues, including autism (from high functioning kids on down). After taking my son to doctor after doctor to try to find help, my son's neurologist suggested it and it was EXTREMELY beneficial. I can't tell you how happy I was with the program.
My son is now 14 and doing very very well. He's very high functioning and even tested into the GATE program (which I said no to, because the regular classes are hard enough) as an 'A' and 'B' student in the typically developing class. The only accommodations he has in RSP with helps re-teach his lessons (the one he struggles with) and gives him extra time with tests, because he was also found to be Dyslexic. It's been a struggle, but one that was well worth it.
Good luck.
Congrats, Tootsie32!
I also, am glad that the child survived but like Delilah, I wonder who is footing the bill.....Can only imaging what the hospital bill is for that stay........I have no doubt that it is once again the burden of the TAXPAYERS.........I think at some point we have to start making some difficult decisions....I for one am sick & tired of paying for all these entitled people, who do not work, pay taxes & do not have HEALTH CARE.......But continue to burden our society w/ their entitlements......Where does it stop.....
Difficult decisions like let babies just die?
You're sick.
I'm sure there are better ways to save the taxpayers money than by letting children die because you're too cold hearted to care.
And where in the article did you read that these parents do not work, pay taxes or have HEALTH CARE.
NewsFlash - Many healthcare plans have maximums on what they will pay out.
Oh and BTW chances are that this was all paid for by private donations and educational grants. Many philanthropists donate to hospitals, especially neo-natal units. And this is a great educational opportunity for the Doctors to learn from as well.
So shove it.
Spend a week in your local NICU, then tell us that you're sorry to have contributed to this baby's survival. I'll pay whatever taxes it takes to protect these little lives.
What about the next one,and the one after that,and the next one...Then you have 99 yo granny who doesn't know she's alive getting care at 2-5,ooo a day.Health care is great,just because it CAN and sometimes DOES work out doesn't mean it does usually.It's great our knowledge is expanded,but science outstripped ethics years ago.Letting children die is ridiculous-not the intent.Keeping non viable fetuses alive is ridiculous.It's called miscarraige
Medical resources--- money, skilled professionals, facilities, etc are finite. There is always a limit to how much there is available even though we generally assume that they are limitless and that they will always been available when we need them for ourselves. It is the nature of finite resources that, especially in the case of neonatal services, that there are actually not enough to go around. If we don't apportion the resources to where they will do the most good, there is an effect somewhere else. Too much money spent on wonderful success stories like this can also have the effect of several pregnant women not getting the care they need (and their babies deserve.) Services lavished on those who can pay for them can create shortages among the poor or the "have-nots" of society.
It makes for wonderful pictures of apparently healthy babies. But you never see the backside stories. The birth defects caused by a lack of folic acid, the miscarriages, the cervical incompetence that causes a fetal death because the mother had to work to survive and had no incurance coverage or sick leave. Those things do not make pretty pictures that pluck at our heart strings. But those pictures are the real world.
If you took the money that was spent on this one baby and used it to fund a prenatal health clinic, you would almost certainly save many more than just one fetal life, prevent more than just one set of birth defects, made more than just one set of parents smile.
This is a wealthy country and certainly capable of funding both a preemie like this and a first class infant mortality rate. But this country has not chosen to do so. One has to ask why? Are we just cruel by nature? Do we always prefer the pretty piucture to the realitic one? Cannot we mentally juggle the variables involved? Or do we simply not take the time to think?
Chris-749391, I have been following your posts on this thread. Most Excellent, and right on target! Good job!!!
I'm a nurse, I did clinicals at places where kids that are severly impaired are wherehoused (and yes, I mean wherehoused). The nurses who worked these wards called them 'the rose garden', because all you do is feed, water and turn.
Before people say spend any amount of money for life, they ought to visit these places.
Congratulations to the parents and doctors / nurses on a job well done! Our daughter was also born 24-25 weeks 8 years ago; she was just 400 grams, less then a can of soda. After 8 very difficult months in the hospital she came home and if doing great. She is still followed medically by the doctors as a miracle baby!
As to the writer concerned about the bill "we the parents did" with help from our insurance! Our daughter does not have a value!
Congrats on your healthy child!
My youngest was born at 22 weeks 5 days and he weighed 1lb 3 oz. He is 8 years old today and has NO medical problems whatsoever. It is truly a miracle what they can do now for micropreemies!!! I thank God and the medical staff at Providence Alaska NICU for my beautiful son every day!
My grand-daughter (now 7) was taken 8 weeks premature and born with Tetrology of Fallot (ToF) , a series of four congenital heart defect, most likely caused by my daughter being prescribed SSRI's as a sleep aid in the first trimester. (This is an off-label use that used to be pushed a lot by the drug companies.)
She had surgery at 3 months that was successful and the plumbing of her heart was rebuilt with dacron parts and a plastic valve. She will likely have one or two more surgeries minimum as she grows up to accomodate to her growth in body size and adult-sized parts.
She is a bright, happy and active child, and except for a remarkable tendency to nurture anything from pets to dolls, as normal as they come.
But her medical bills thus far have come to over $6 million dollars. The constant stresses of the situation, and especially as the parents' health insurance was maxxed out and lifeime caps were exceeded destroyed their marriage. They were bankrupt by the medical bills despite the State of Tennessee and Vanderbilt Medical Center picking up millions of the tab. They would not have health insurance at all except for the already-enacted provisions of "Obamacare."
It is hard for me to see this as an absolute success and I'll bet that the family in the article will also see it as a mixed blessing. That's just the way life is. I love my grand-daughter dearly and appreciate that she can have a life that is somewhat normal. But I also can step back and see the larger picture and see the horrible burdens and inequities that these things can cause.
I am always happy to see people with those good survival stories and consider that my two major charities are St. Jude's Childrens' Hospital and Ronald McDonald Houses. I try to give back into a broken system in the hopes that things might be better someday for the parents of children born prematurely and with birth defects. (These two charities are the only named recipients in my will -- hint, hint. :) )
Chris, great post. I had a Nurse Practitioner who had told me that her 4th child was born so prematurely that he had to stay in the hospital for more than a year, and that he was blind, deaf, and she was unsure what other disabilities they would be facing. She -- herself -- stated, "Medical science has gone too far."
We do need to get out our "thinking caps" and do some deep, critical thinking on when medial science has -- indeed -- gone too far. I agree with your previous posts. There are FINITE resources, and saving 1 very premature baby whose chances of facing some very real developmental issues, or saving a larger number of babies who are closer to full-term. Save the 1, or save 10 with the better chance of survival.
Think "Pearl Harbor" and how some soldiers were not treated because they were injured too seriously, and there were limited number of medical staff there to treat the ones that had a better chance of survival.
This is not about playing God, it's about reality. And, people need to start facing reality. We simply don't have the money in our coffers.
I had a 27 week baby! 1 lb 12ounces and he is a healthy almost 10 year old. I am blessed to have him in my life. I am also one that hates spending my tax dollars on people that don't work and could if they tried to get a job. I also hate going into a store and have people use their food stamps to buy groceries and then they go out and load them in their brand new, bmw, escalade, etc. etc. For me though. We were a young couple just starting out. My husband was working but did not get benefits so we were paying for our own insurance. It only covered so much so we tried to get on medicaid. Made to much money, and he was only getting paid 9 dollars an hour. The only way we got medicaid finally is because he was under 2 pounds and he was able to get on social security and then they let him get medicaid. I did get help from the taxpayers, and I appreciate it soooooo much. But just don't abuse the system.
I am sorry shallmk, those "rich" poor people on food stamps only exist as phantoms in republican debates. I have witnessed many food stamp recipients in my area. None of them are driving BMW's or SUV's. I continue to see them put back half of the apples they were buying because they did not have enough money or food stamps. Yea, let's keep selling the myth all people that get food stamps are "rich".
And it is somewhat hypocritical of you to mention how you "worked" the system to qualify for medicaid. One is no less than the other, if you are cheating the system to get food stamps or to get free medical care.
I had my daughter the day I turned 28 weeks. She was 2 pounds and spent 2 months in the NICU. She will be 2 in April. For the most part, you can't even tell that she was born premature. It is because of the wonderful NICU nurses and neonatologists that these small miracles can survive. For the new parents, all I can say is congratulations on that miracle baby that you have. It will be a very difficult first year with all kinds of questions and concerns, but just remember that your baby is here for a reason. Remember to thank God everyday, for if it were not for Him, you wouldn't have that precious baby. Congratulations to you guys and the best of luck to your little family! :)
We can't keep all of them .good for you
Congratulations to the parents and a job well done to the nurses and doctors! Our daughter was born 8 years ago at 400 grams 24-25 weeks. After 8 very difficult months in the hospital and some follow up she is doing great today. She is still considered a miracle baby by all who participated in her development!
As to who paid the hospital bill!! MY WIFE and I (with some help from the our insurance) paid it in FULL !! My daughter does not have a value assigned to her.!
I think your missing the point as you have not lived the event described here.
All the best to the family! The fun starts NOW!!!
Congrats on your healthy child!
GREAT !! CONGRATS TO PARENTS!! my son was born at 2 lbs 15 ounces and its so amazing to see them grow!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a miracle this baby is!!!!!!!!!
Congratulations! To the parents, doctors, and all the staff at NICU! Doing maricles everyday! My one and only son was only 3 lbs and he is now 4 and everything is great! Your baby will also be!
My Grandson, now 9 years old, was a little under 2 lbs when he was taken by emergency c-section. He had a long haul in the hospital also, and after he got home, but, did very well. He has no effects at all, it makes a great deal of a difference how they are taken care of those first few months. The poor little ones look helpless with tubes, wires, etc, and monitors, but that is what helps to make them grown. He is never had any probs. after he was released, so this little one has a good outlook for the future. Medicine these days can do miracles, I know that from a fact, my 9 year old Grandson.
I sure hope they had health insurance and tax money didn't foot the bill for that one.
It was only by chance that this baby wasn't you. Think about that for a while before we ask you to please step out of the gene pool.
I'd rather my tax money go into saving these babies than feeding murderers, pedophiles and rapists for the rest of their lives.
I agree with you Hot-in-Miami. Money spent on people in prisons is mostly wasted. Money spent on saving babies is not wasted. A huge percentage of the babies born at county USC are born at taxpayers expense. Over 75% I believe, because of all the illegals and people living in poverty. That's why when a person with money and insurace has a kid it's insanely expensive. Somehow the system has to be changed. I wish the baby and the new parents the best of luck.
My youngest son was born at 22 weeks 5 days is what they decided.He weighed 1 lb 3 oz and we spent 4 months in the NICU together. He is 8 years old now and has NO medical problems whatsoever!
He is truly a miracle and we thank God and the NICU team everyday for him!
I am so glad she made it! Wow! What a tiny little baby! I am so glad she made it! Goes to show you, abortion decisions need to be made early, as early as possible, else you should go ahead and have the baby...they are viable quickly. I am not harping and I know it is a difficult decision sometimes. But keep this little girl in mind when you think on a "lark" at 24 weeks to "change your mind...."
your tax dollars hard at work
is that all you can see here? If it is, I am very sorry for you, because you'll never be truly happy.
If a baby is born that early, then something was wrong with the baby or the mother, simply as that. One should have died. Modern science/medicine is a great thing that it can do these things but at what financial cost and cost to the planet with live on? (Meaning human population)
Some women do have complications carrying children but that does not mean that there's "something wrong" with either of them. But I do see that we are overpopulated by 1 person.......and its neither of them.
So, since we're overpopulated by one person, sounds like you're volunteering to be killed off to make room for this innocent baby. I think if anyone should step out of the gene pool early, it should probably be non-compassionate people like you.
Congrats to mommy and most of all,,,beautiful angel baby. Our family has it's own miracle so very similar. My nephew weighed in at 670grams. We were told to not have any hopes for his survival. Well, our prayers were answered. He is now 2 1/2 beautiful years old, doing amazing feats that no doctor gave him a chance of doing. We are now patiently waiting for him to speak. He has had surgeries to connect the retinas in his eyes, heart surgery to repair a whole, tubes for his ears (to help mold and open), is currently in a program for autistic children. He is a treasure and a wonderful joy to have in our family. My sister (who could NEVER have children of her own) adopted him and gave him lots of love and hope, when the child's mother tried to abort him. We thank God, nurses and doctors everyday he is in our lives. Never give up hope and dreams, because they do come true.
All of you posting that this baby should have been allowed to die to save money should volunteer to become the poster children for abortion. Too bad your mothers didn't eat their young. And, while we're at it, I'd be willing to bet that if this was your child you'd be begging someone, anyone, to help.
If I was ever put in that sort of situation, no question, I would be mercyful & let he/she go.....I would not want my child to endure a lifetime of health issues,ect., which is the cause in most of these premies.....I think that the health system, parents ect. makes the choice to keeps these little ones alive, w/ all the wonderful (and i say that very sarcastically) technology that we have.....At what point do we say enough.....By the way, no begging here!!!!!!
When people say "most of these preemies", they are actually not stating the facts. Many preemies do VERY well after the first year or so. In fact, it is often the micro-preemies of 2.5 pounds or less that surprise the heck out of everyone!
I am not going to deny that in some cases, especially in those that are less than 26 weeks gestation, there will be lifelong problems, sometimes resulting in early death. But the odds are still stacked in their favour.
The "article" stated that this premature baby born was at approximately 6 months, and only 9.5 ounces. Most of the posters above had a child at 28 weeks, approximately 7 months of gestation, and close to, or above, 2 pounds when born.
Isn't that a very BIG difference when it comes to more time in the womb for organs to more fully develop, and doesn't that greatly increase the survival rate?
Yes, babies born at 7 months are very likely to survive. But, one at 6 months is far less likely.
Congrats on being homeward bound! It looks like a lot of us have spent those long anxious days waiting for this moment. My daughter was 26 weeks - 1 lb 11oz and will be 17yrs old this year. In 1995 she was considered "very lucky". No health problems even though she's a little slim. Her mother is too though!
I am glad that she survived. This baby is a true survivor. I have triplets who were born at 24 weeks in 2005. I know how hard these little guys fight. Our birth weights were 1lb 1oz -1lb 5oz It is very rare for all three to survive. They are now strong, healthy kindergarteners with no physical or mental issues from their severe prematurity.
best of luck to ya kiddo.
my daughter was born at jus 28 weeks. jan 30th she will be 27 years old an has no problems what so ever. she weighed 4 lb. at birth and had lung issues but is a very healthy young lady now with children of her own. congrats to the both of you and may god bless your family.
Back in 1992 I was a happy health single pregnant woman with a job, a plan and a great support of family and friends.....until my daughter showed up at 24wks, she weighed in at 1.8oz, she is now a healthy 19yr old ready to graduate this year, with only some minor developmental issues. All I ever got from the doctors is them wanting to study her, no one could give me any answersas far as her learning disablities, I have kind of just been on my own. As far as the medical bills, my daughter's was a quarter of a million and she wasn't even out of the hospital at that point. It was the doctors that took it upon themselves to resuscitate, guess it's their way of having something to study. I'm glad now that they did, she's an amazing girl and I love her dearly, but there was no insurance coverage that would have covered it, so it was the state that covered it. I'm sure that there are a lot of parents out there that have been in the same boat that had the decision made for them by some team of doctors, who maybe didn't believe in letting a fetus die or they just wanted something to study, so I wouldn't be too judgemental on who's flipping the bill. I guess if I had to choose, I'd rather my tax money go to this, than to go to all of the illegals that are in this country getting free everything. Maybe if the doctors are the ones making the choice, they should be the ones to flip the bill. There was no guarantee on how my daughter would turn out when the doctors made the decision to go against my wishes on resuscitating, guess we just got really lucky and I'm extremely thankful for it.